Is it Worth Doing at this point?

[Gurkhali]

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I have already submitted my app for this cycle but I do not have great volunteer hours. How would it look if I tried to increase clinical hours by training to be a CNA during the app cycle? I am already volunteering (non-clinical) through the red cross --although I am trying to get into the first aid services there--, a hospice (clinical) and I'm starting to do some Habitat for Humanity construction volunteering. My stats are pretty good: 3.96 GPA, 517 MCAT. Would this help my app substantially at all?

Thanks.

 

[Crayola227]

No. Just continue the stuff you're doing so far. Getting the CNA credential at this point is a waste of time and money if you get in this cycle. Unless you want it as your backup job plan.

Your volunteer stuff sounds good.
Hospice is good for clinical.
Do you need shadowing doc hours??

How many hours? and how many hours will you have to talk about in month? for your secondaries and interviews it will be helpful and will fill the "hole" in your app if you log enough hours ASAP

 

[Gurkhali]

No. Just continue the stuff you're doing so far. Getting the CNA credential at this point is a waste of time and money if you get in this cycle. Unless you want it as your backup job plan.

Your volunteer stuff sounds good.
Hospice is good for clinical.
Do you need shadowing doc hours??

How many hours? and how many hours will you have to talk about in month? for your secondaries and interviews it will be helpful and will fill the "hole" in your app if you log enough hours ASAP

I have other ECs but from what I've listed so far, I put expected hours for the Red cross and hospice volunteering on the app. 275 hours and 150 hours, respectively. Habitat for humanity I can probably do 5-8 hrs a week; more if I need to. I have about 40 hrs shadowing (cardio, plastics surgeon, general physicians who were abroad).

 

[Crayola227]

I can see why you might think you need more, and I haven't grilled you about your app, but in general I think if you can avoid getting a CNA that's a good thing

I did a craigslist elder care thing that didn't require any certs to get my "bathing and medically transporting etc etc with old sick people" hours in

sounds like you'll do that with hospice

I dont' think you need CNA but we'll let others chime in who know better

 

[Crayola227]

. double post

 

[Sardinia]

@Gurkhali @Crayola227 Heavily suggest going into EMT training over CNA for long term satisfaction. I think that questions like these are one of pragmatism e.g. determining the cost of taking the courses, do you have loans, do you have time, do you think you'll get in this application cycle, and what to do if you don't get in this application cycle. It can also be a question of personal preference if you like doing direct assist and assisting the elderly (yes there are people like this) over working with more diagnostic cases that involve a myriad of different patients. Please be aware that not all nursing aide sites are the same and being a college graduate with full time availability is very enticing for these locations especially if you're a male. More often than not you will be treated like a male within a largely female profession because you are hired in that capacity. If you don't understand this concept, then you will understand this concept and will probably be able to write a better diversity essay than the one you submitted to AMCAS.

On paper you might think it's great to work in subacute/rehabilitative with Alzheimer patients, but it's not fun if you're responsible for BOTH Alzheimer + subacuate patients on days where you have to run in between both floors.

Some questions you should ask a site is:
What is the nursing aide to resident ratio at this location?
Roughly how many hoyer lift/multiple assist residents are assigned here per floor?
Are there specialty wards at this location and what work do they entail?

As a male CNA you will have your work cut out for you in ways that your female CNA friends may not quite understand. Female residents will give you a hard time initially until you get settled in making work more difficult. Male residents at times may tell you to quit your job because they would initially prefer having a pretty young girl wipe their genitals and rectum rather than a young guy who reminds them of what they were 40+ years ago. When I mention this off-hand it may seem like it's not so bad, but if you are working at a short-staffed location and have to handle the 350 pound guy who tells you to quit your job in 20 different ways while you clean him and he BMs on you, then questions why you're taking so long and reasserts that you aren't cut out for this job, then it comes down to a question of character if this is really the best environment for you to get your clinical training in. It's not.

As for the admissions related information about whether your crunch time clinical will be helpful: @Goro @gyngyn

 

[Crayola227]

crap can you get any US physician shadowing in? like even just a few days?

 

[Sardinia]

Ok wait. As much as I made that out to be a miserable experience, it was actually pretty awesome that I got the chance to work in such a setting. Working as a CNA will make you invulnerable to a lot of the "downsides" people see as part of the clinical experience if it doesn't turn you away from pursuing medicine all together. Being an EMT also will carry their own burden and hardships similar to being a CNA, if not some stressors being worse. The plus sides is that as a CNA you control where you work (you are highly desirable), you control your hours for the most part except for weekends (I never cared about weekends seeing as how my weekends either boil down to working or visiting my parents-gradnparents), and you play a direct role in your resident's lives so you can use your extra time to give them additional attention and care that they should be getting from the facility. Like I said before, no two locations are the same and in my state the robust CNA requirements have turned the job market into an employee's market more so than an employer's market. Take my advice in stride, there are many worst jobs out there.

 

[kamakazi5]

I think the volunteering you have should be sufficient. Just keep doing that. Doing anything that requires a certificate will be a waste this late.

If you did go the CNA route because you want or need a job then definitely work in a hospital. You will make a bit more and you can generally do more. Just know it is hard work but can be rewarding.

 

[Big&Juicy]

I was in a position like you where I needed more clinical hours as I was applying. I went the EMT route and then sent updates to the schools as I finished my training and started working. EMT training courses take a while to complete so be wary of that. Come interview time, you will be able to speak positively on your clinical experience, which can boost your profile. I would definitely try volunteering first as there are less barriers to get involved. If you do have the time to get a clinical job, I would highly suggest becoming an EMT or a Scribe in the ER.

You wouldn't buy a car without driving it would you? Clinical experience is extremely valuable in the application process as it shows that you have actually put the time in to dedicate yourself to medicine and get a taste of what it is like. If your application does not have clinical experience, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage.

 

[Gurkhali]

I was in a position like you where I needed more clinical hours as I was applying. I went the EMT route and then sent updates to the schools as I finished my training and started working. EMT training courses take a while to complete so be wary of that. Come interview time, you will be able to speak positively on your clinical experience, which can boost your profile. I would definitely try volunteering first as there are less barriers to get involved. If you do have the time to get a clinical job, I would highly suggest becoming an EMT or a Scribe in the ER.

You wouldn't buy a car without driving it would you? Clinical experience is extremely valuable in the application process as it shows that you have actually put the time in to dedicate yourself to medicine and get a taste of what it is like. If your application does not have clinical experience, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage.

So I've been looking at EMR training and it seems to be a lot less time-demanding than the higher level training. Would you recommend this just to get some direct clinical experience? I would be fine with volunteering for this position. I don't absolutely NEED a job atm. I just need a way to show med schools I am dedicate to the profession more than the 110 hours of hospital volunteering and some odd 90ish hours I have doing a medical outreach trip, hospice and assisted living facility volunteering. I'm just concerned that at this point it is too little, too late.

 

[Gurkhali]

crap can you get any US physician shadowing in? like even just a few days?

I will try and contact physicians in my area but it can be difficult with HIPAA. General primary care physicians especially seem to be averse to shadowees.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

@Gurkhali @Crayola227 Heavily suggest going into EMT training over CNA for long term satisfaction. I think that questions like these are one of pragmatism e.g. determining the cost of taking the courses, do you have loans, do you have time, do you think you'll get in this application cycle, and what to do if you don't get in this application cycle. It can also be a question of personal preference if you like doing direct assist and assisting the elderly (yes there are people like this) over working with more diagnostic cases that involve a myriad of different patients. Please be aware that not all nursing aide sites are the same and being a college graduate with full time availability is very enticing for these locations especially if you're a male. More often than not you will be treated like a male within a largely female profession because you are hired in that capacity. If you don't understand this concept, then you will understand this concept and will probably be able to write a better diversity essay than the one you submitted to AMCAS.

On paper you might think it's great to work in subacute/rehabilitative with Alzheimer patients, but it's not fun if you're responsible for BOTH Alzheimer + subacuate patients on days where you have to run in between both floors.

Some questions you should ask a site is:
What is the nursing aide to resident ratio at this location?
Roughly how many hoyer lift/multiple assist residents are assigned here per floor?
Are there specialty wards at this location and what work do they entail?

As a male CNA you will have your work cut out for you in ways that your female CNA friends may not quite understand. Female residents will give you a hard time initially until you get settled in making work more difficult. Male residents at times may tell you to quit your job because they would initially prefer having a pretty young girl wipe their genitals and rectum rather than a young guy who reminds them of what they were 40+ years ago. When I mention this off-hand it may seem like it's not so bad, but if you are working at a short-staffed location and have to handle the 350 pound guy who tells you to quit your job in 20 different ways while you clean him and he BMs on you, then questions why you're taking so long and reasserts that you aren't cut out for this job, then it comes down to a question of character if this is really the best environment for you to get your clinical training in. It's not.

As for the admissions related information about whether your crunch time clinical will be helpful: @Goro @gyngyn

I think a lot of what you're saying is a bit off base and a bit exaggerated. As a male in training, the experience is not for everyone, but to say that all women will give you a hard time because you're a male is silly. You just lay frame like you would in any job setting regardless of gender. I have worked in a long term care setting for many years around 95% women. There is one male nurse and two male aides for the entire building. By contrast there are about 30 female nurses and like 80 aides. I don't think it's any grounds for a diversity essay lol. You're going to be working with a lot of female nurses and staff as a doctor so why come off like you were so diverse for doing so in another setting?

Also I think it's great clinical experience and if you're willing to get down and dirty so to speak, no one is going to question your commitment. Compassion and commitment to those who are vulnerable and in need of constant care is probably more important than any actual practicing of medicine provided that you have some shadowing.

 

[Big&Juicy]

So I've been looking at EMR training and it seems to be a lot less time-demanding than the higher level training. Would you recommend this just to get some direct clinical experience? I would be fine with volunteering for this position. I don't absolutely NEED a job atm. I just need a way to show med schools I am dedicate to the profession more than the 110 hours of hospital volunteering and some odd 90ish hours I have doing a medical outreach trip, hospice and assisted living facility volunteering. I'm just concerned that at this point it is too little, too late.

If you're taking a gap year, I would definitely recommend getting a clinical job. In interviews, they will ask you what you have been doing since graduating and being involved in scribing, working at your local EMS, community health outreach will bode well for you. It's never too late to start those things. I got lucky and found a one month EMT training class and that made things a lot easier for me during my gap year. Scribing would probably be easier for you to get into as it requires less training. You would be taking vital signs or administering care, but you'll be able to observe patient interaction with a physician and get involved in the critical thinking process used to treat that patient.

You may think because you just submitted AMCAS that these things don't won't matter but trust me, they'll make you better. You can always send school update letters as the cycle progresses as I did. These experiences will also likely make a difference if you get deferred or wait listed at programs. Your update letters will show them your persistence in being a well rounded applicant.

You have seem to have a great application already. Your stats will get you many interviews. Having clinical experience which you can discuss passionately during your interviews will only make you stronger as a candidate .

 

[Gurkhali]

If you're taking a gap year, I would definitely recommend getting a clinical job. In interviews, they will ask you what you have been doing since graduating and being involved in scribing, working at your local EMS, community health outreach will bode well for you. It's never too late to start those things. I got lucky and found a one month EMT training class and that made things a lot easier for me during my gap year. Scribing would probably be easier for you to get into as it requires less training. You would be taking vital signs or administering care, but you'll be able to observe patient interaction with a physician and get involved in the critical thinking process used to treat that patient.

You may think because you just submitted AMCAS that these things don't won't matter but trust me, they'll make you better. You can always send school update letters as the cycle progresses as I did. These experiences will also likely make a difference if you get deferred or wait listed at programs. Your update letters will show them your persistence in being a well rounded applicant.

You have seem to have a great application already. Your stats will get you many interviews. Having clinical experience which you can discuss passionately during your interviews will only make you stronger as a candidate .

I have tried looking into being a scribe and found ScribeAmerica which is offering training in my area so I am applying to that as we speak. Thank you for the advice, I hope this works out!

 

[Sardinia]

I think a lot of what you're saying is a bit off base and a bit exaggerated. As a male in training, the experience is not for everyone, but to say that all women will give you a hard time because you're a male is silly. You just lay frame like you would in any job setting regardless of gender. I have worked in a long term care setting for many years around 95% women. There is one male nurse and two male aides for the entire building. By contrast there are about 30 female nurses and like 80 aides. I don't think it's any grounds for a diversity essay lol. You're going to be working with a lot of female nurses and staff as a doctor so why come off like you were so diverse for doing so in another setting? Also I think it's great clinical experience and if you're willing to get down and dirty so to speak, no one is going to question your commitment. Compassion and commitment to those who are vulnerable and in need of constant care is probably more important than any actual practicing of medicine provided that you have some shadowing.

You have no idea what I'm talking about. But it's great that you think that I'm actually talking about % composition of staff in a job that can involve a lot of heavy manual labor. "I have worked in a long term care setting..." but presumably not as a CNA considering you list the gender composition of the building. Did you work front desk, lab, serving food trays, or some other non-involved job that had a reasonable amount of distance apart from the residents? Am I supposed to guess?

Sorry if I seem volatile, I kindly remember you being the person who told someone they need +500 more hours than actually required for PA school because you were throwing numbers based on gut feelings. Gut feelings, estimations of work based on building composition...

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

You have no idea what I'm talking about. But it's great that you think that I'm actually talking about % composition of staff in a job that can involve a lot of heavy manual labor. "I have worked in a long term care setting..." but presumably not as a CNA considering you list the gender composition of the building. Did you work front desk, lab, serving food trays, or some other non-involved job that had a reasonable amount of distance apart from the residents? Am I supposed to guess?

Sorry if I seem volatile, I kindly remember you being the person who told someone they need +500 more hours than actually required for PA school because you were throwing numbers based on gut feelings. Gut feelings, estimations of work based on building composition...

Nah, I was quoting numbers based on programs that I had explored in my area which required 2k hrs.

Based on your experiences some of those things may have been your reality, but they aren't for every long term care facility which is what I was saying.

The males take care of their own patients. They don't act like human forklifts or do any more than women. Yes, sometimes there are residents who don't want them because they are males. Yes, sometimes accusations are brought up by confused female residents because they are being wiped and changed by males. Are they run out of the building for these things? No they aren't.

And if I apparently have no clue what you're talking about when I work in said facility and am becoming a Cna, how will the OP have a clue when he has done neither of those things? I have constant contact with patients and aides as I work on their floors and in and out of their rooms all day long. (Maintenance, housekeeping etc. and of course my CNA req. clinical exp.)