Is pathology a matriarchy nowadays??

[Isa2010]

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I've had 2 rotations and I've noticed most attendings are women
And I was surprised once I realized "Montgomery" "Lester" "Atkinson" are women....I know perhaps that's only my impression...
How about your program?

 

[mrp]

Our 7 person group is 4-3 men:women. And the boss is a white male. So, my N=1 study suggests it's still a patriarchy.

 

[Entgegen]

The 3-person group that runs the path lab in the hospital I'm rotating at (not a residency program, just a lab at a hospital) has 2 women and 1 man. If indeed there is a disproportionately large number of women in pathology, I'd guess it's because path is a "lifestyle" specialty in which a woman would be able to pump out kiddos.

 

[xanthines]

I'd be interested in knowing how far up the food chain the women are. My old boss was 1 of 2 senior women at a large academic medical center, arguably the most "lifestyle" of places. All the other women were residents with a few junior faculty.

-X

 

[icpshootyz]

Well, let's be fair - medicine is slowly going transitioning to >50% women anyways, so path is likely no exception. My personal institution (one of the Harvard trio) is a good mix of men and women, seems 50/50 without doing a full count. But resident-wise it's >50% women, so over time that's clearly where it's going. It certainly is more flexible from a lifestyle standpoint, but no female pathologists I know of picked it for that reason. Few seem to be trying to hatch kids young, either, which is different from my experience with OB/GYN or Peds female residents.

 

[LADoc00]

lots of clockpuncher-type positions are mostly women in CA: government jobs, academia etc. Not that clock punching is bad, it provides non-monetary benefits most women are after.
many of the higher end private groups are pure men and have been so literally since the early 20th century/post Gold Rush era when many hospitals were built in CA.

In my travels to very rural/extreme pathology groups (which I HIGHLY recommend btw), a vast majority are run/manned by guys.

In terms of part time work, a VAST majority are women pathologists...thus although the absolute # of women in medicine maybe increasing, the number of "female FTEs" is either stagnant or declining. This trend will probably accelerate dramatically in the next decade.

 

[lipomas]

This is true, our group has 3 women, 2 are part time. None of the 10 men are part time.

I keep thinking we are going to start seeing more men taking part time careers in medicine, but it doesn't seem to be happening (until they reach 70+ and still want to practice part of the time). I know of more women finishing residency now who are interested in part time careers than those who want a full time career, but that may just be the areas I am familiar with. Surgical fields it is more common for women to be full time.

I don't know of too many academic path chairs who are women. West Virginia has one. Loyola has one. A big university in Canada has one. There are probably more. Others have women as vice chairs or AP directors.

 

[pathstudent]

lots of clockpuncher-type positions are mostly women in CA: government jobs, academia etc. Not that clock punching is bad, it provides non-monetary benefits most women are after.
many of the higher end private groups are pure men and have been so literally since the early 20th century/post Gold Rush era when many hospitals were built in CA.

In my travels to very rural/extreme pathology groups (which I HIGHLY recommend btw), a vast majority are run/manned by guys.

In terms of part time work, a VAST majority are women pathologists...thus although the absolute # of women in medicine maybe increasing, the number of "female FTEs" is either stagnant or declining. This trend will probably accelerate dramatically in the next decade.

I once had a community practice pulmonologist tell me that women have saved medicine because they want to work part-time and retire early. Therefore they can be exploited by partners and they are taking a spot away from a male breadwinner, which is good for male breadwinners who are in the field. And like a private practice pathologist from a balls to the walls community practice group, if you don't want female troubles, then don't hire a female because women call in sick and leave early to pick up the kids etc.

Academics is a good Way to go for moms.

 

[Isa2010]

🙄

"We're all God's children"

If you marry a pathologist, I don't know your gender but your suggestive comments made me think you're a guy...............if you marry a pathologist, and you both work, and also have children..........Would it be a justifiable reason for rejecting her application? Is family a problem?

I once had a community practice pulmonologist tell me that women have saved medicine because they want to work part-time and retire early. Therefore they can be exploited by partners and they are taking a spot away from a male breadwinner, which is good for male breadwinners who are in the field. And like a private practice pathologist from a balls to the walls community practice group, if you don't want female troubles, then don't hire a female because women call in sick and leave early to pick up the kids etc.

Academics is a good Way to go for moms.

 

[green mantis]

I've trained at 3 separate programs. The department chairs have all been men, but women did hold some prominent positions.

I was actually surprised by the number of women in pathology, either as residents or attendings, when I interviewed for residency. During medical school & clinical rotations, all the pathologists I encountered were male.


----- Antony

 

[smellycat]

All of the ladies that you mention above are well published and established experts in their field. They definitely are not "part time." More and more I see women pathologists with stay at home dads. I think it is true that men are still the majority but I am sure it will eventually tilt and you will see more and more women being chairs/head of department. My department during residency did have less women and half of them were part time.

My medical school was 60-40 women-men. Pretty unheard of at that time.

 

[Adrian Cocot]

And yet Stacey Mills is a dude.

 

[djmd]

And yet Stacey Mills is a dude.

Hillarious!

 

[hzma]

In my program one hospital had 7 male attendings- no women. The other hospital, which was university based, had 6 female, and 1 male.

 

[danaphosaurus]

we are a private practice training program and all 9 of our attendings are male- we used to have a part time female and a full time female- The full time female caused a lot of problems and turmoil and after she left I never, in a million years, thought that the group would hire a female to replace her but they did-
I just think that people need to be honest about what they want out of life- Everyone wants private practice money with academic hours- If you know you want a family and want to be around to see your kids grow up, get a job that fits-

 

[BrainPathology]

we are a private practice training program and all 9 of our attendings are male- we used to have a part time female and a full time female- The full time female caused a lot of problems and turmoil and after she left I never, in a million years, thought that the group would hire a female to replace her but they did-
I just think that people need to be honest about what they want out of life- Everyone wants private practice money with academic hours- If you know you want a family and want to be around to see your kids grow up, get a job that fits-

It's funny actually that the 'oversupply' of pathologists forced that program to advertise for over a year before a suitable FMG with a heme fellowship could be found to fill that position. I gaurantee you hiring a woman of childbearing age was NOT at the top of their list, no matter what they might say.

 

[SomeDoc]

In my travels to very rural/extreme pathology groups (which I HIGHLY recommend btw), a vast majority are run/manned by guys.

Care to elaborate on this? I'm curious.

 

[2121115]

Everyone wants private practice money with academic hours- If you know you want a family and want to be around to see your kids grow up, get a job that fits-

Academic hours? If you are a new instructor or assistant prof you will get worked to death at a big time academic institution- service work constantly. You think the big academic names are signing out the 50-70k surgical specimens that come through every year? Not exactly. They eat their young and only those who can write enough to publish during nights and weekends get tenure and the accompanying "academic hours". Even now, at most academic places the "tenure track" positions are becoming a thing of the past and it is just "clinical track"- in other words signing out cases like you're in private practice but getting paid less (oh, and you have to teach in your free time).

 

[BrainPathology]

Academic hours? If you are a new instructor or assistant prof you will get worked to death at a big time academic institution- service work constantly. You think the big academic names are signing out the 50-70k surgical specimens that come through every year? Not exactly. They eat their young and only those who can write enough to publish during nights and weekends get tenure and the accompanying "academic hours". Even now, at most academic places the "tenure track" positions are becoming a thing of the past and it is just "clinical track"- in other words signing out cases like you're in private practice but getting paid less (oh, and you have to teach in your free time).

Not sure what she meant... but contrasting the pace from the private practice I trained at to the pace here, people may stick around more hours in academics but there sure isn't any pressure to turn around cases in any reasonable amount of time. There is VERY little pressure to be efficient. Maybe the hours of lethargic, passing around the case to all your friends, slide ‘edging' (looking at a slide for hours almost making a call over and over, then backing off, hoping the cells rearrange into something you recognize better instead of quickly getting relevant stains making the call and or getting concurrent opinions from outside), and endless 'educational' conferences are what people want to get private practice money for.

There are a couple new attendings here this year and I really don't see them signing out that many cases. I'm actually perplexed at how 50-70k surgical specimens can actually get through some programs. 9 docs did that (57k last year) at my last place. Maybe the 40 attendings here for the same or slightly more amount of cases explains the pace. I don't really see that there are more very difficult cases here as opposed to the last place. The rest of your responsibilities as an acedemic does press your time; however, being a bit more efficient at sign-out would free up at least a modest amount of time for many.