Is the Bar a bit to high around here?

[WorldChanger36]

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I know most people I talk to are not a fan of the plus and minus grade system around UNF and other schools. I noticed that a plus or minus grade can be assigned at the teacher's will. Most science teachers I have taken put the FULL A starting at 94 %, which is a bit high but reachable for some. I have taken a few science and non science teachers that put the bar even higher at 96% and one that put an A at 98%. This is a bit difficult to say the least. Now when you look the B scale some teacher put a B- grade as low as 78% and a B+ as high as 92%. When I went to some of my teachers to ask for a justification for setting the bar so high , he told me flat " No one should get an A in my classes ( YEP, CLASSES). I hate giving them, love to give Bs but I hate giving As as much as I hate seeing F students in class" I found this to be a general consensus in my school around most teachers. One teacher, whose class I quite enjoyed, gave Plus or minus based on attendance. So if you earn a 99 A in the class because it was easy but you never came to class you got an A-. What experience do you guys have with this plus and minus system and do you feel it is just a slap to students who work hard and earn As or just a required evil?
Should every grade be based on a 10 percent scale or should the teacher be able to change that?

 

[DrYoda]

My undergrad used a +/- scale and I liked it.

Also consider that if you had a GPA based on every 10% that an 89% turns into a 3.0 instead of a 3.33. So +/- can be good or bad depending on your personal situation. People are going to complain regardless of the scale IMO

 

[Narmerguy]

I think every grade should be based on the 10 point scale. However, this means essentially nothing because teachers can just make the tests/assignments hard enough that everyone shifts down a certain amount. Or, like my Econ professor, they can just give tests that destroy everyone, and then use a curve that gets the class scores to the range they want (he wanted only 2 A's per class).

No matter what, if a professor wants to be a jerk, he can do it. Making the cutoff for an A a 98% is pretty lame.

 

[apumic]

I know most people I talk to are not a fan of the plus and minus grade system around UNF and other schools. I noticed that a plus or minus grade can be assigned at the teacher's will. Most science teachers I have taken put the FULL A starting at 94 %, which is a bit high but reachable for some. I have taken a few science and non science teachers that put the bar even higher at 96% and one that put an A at 98%. This is a bit difficult to say the least. Now when you look the B scale some teacher put a B- grade as low as 78% and a B+ as high as 92%. When I went to some of my teachers to ask for a justification for setting the bar so high , he told me flat " No one should get an A in my classes ( YEP, CLASSES). I hate giving them, love to give Bs but I hate giving As as much as I hate seeing F students in class" I found this to be a general consensus in my school around most teachers. One teacher, whose class I quite enjoyed, gave Plus or minus based on attendance. So if you earn a 99 A in the class because it was easy but you never came to class you got an A-. What experience do you guys have with this plus and minus system and do you feel it is just a slap to students who work hard and earn As or just a required evil?
Should every grade be based on a 10 percent scale or should the teacher be able to change that?

Honestly, I'd say quit your whinin'!

From your description, I'm actually 100% on the prof's side on this. The truth is that VERY few students should get an A in any given class -- probably only 2-5% (and another 5-10% A-s). Otherwise, you are devaluing what an A is. When someone looks at your transcript, you want them to actually place value on your grades, right? If everyone can attain an A in a given class, that class was not competitive. Unfortunately, students tend to believe they "deserve As" just because they showed up to class and did most of the work. A "C" is average. Keep that in mind. The fact that this prof "likes giving Bs" is quite gracious, really. For every A a prof gives out, there should be a corresponding F, plain and simple.


I would agree, however, than putting a 98% as the lower limit of an A is a bit intense. I'd advocate that a prof ought to simply make the course hard enough that getting a 93% is as difficult as getting a 98% in a similar course. Otherwise, it does seem like he's being a bit jerkish by his methods.....

 

[xBODOMx]

Honestly, I'd say quit your whinin'!

From your description, I'm actually 100% on the prof's side on this. The truth is that VERY few students should get an A in any given class -- probably only 2-5% (and another 5-10% A-s). Otherwise, you are devaluing what an A is. When someone looks at your transcript, you want them to actually place value on your grades, right? If everyone can attain an A in a given class, that class was not competitive. Unfortunately, students tend to believe they "deserve As" just because they showed up to class and did most of the work. A "C" is average. Keep that in mind. The fact that this prof "likes giving Bs" is quite gracious, really. For every A a prof gives out, there should be a corresponding F, plain and simple.


I would agree, however, than putting a 98% as the lower limit of an A is a bit intense. I'd advocate that a prof ought to simply make the course hard enough that getting a 93% is as difficult as getting a 98% in a similar course. Otherwise, it does seem like he's being a bit jerkish by his methods.....

Yeah but you're proposing that its standardized across all schools for A's. Since its not its pretty pointless since some classes at one university you can coast A's and at another using That scale you'll not get an a and It will be look at you performing poorly

 

[apumic]

Yeah but you're proposing that its standardized across all schools for A's. Since its not its pretty pointless since some classes at one university you can coast A's and at another using That scale you'll not get an a and It will be look at you performing poorly

True. What I am really proposing, though, is that schools ought to standardize this. I agree that schools lie all over the spectrum but I think we would be in a much better place overall academically if more (read: all) professors graded like this one. Ultimately, it's ridiculous that average GPAs at many universities are in the mid-3.xs! That's INSANE!

 

[dingyibvs]

thats what the mcat is for

 

[futureNCmed]

I always thought that GPA should be based on a 5 point scale and if you get, say a 92 in a class, it should covert to a 4.2 a 100% = 5.0, 85% = 3.5, 74% = 2.4 etc. I always hated that I could get an "A" in a class, but if it was an A minus, my GPA would go below 4.0. I got straight A's in college, yet my final GPA was like a 3.89 or something becasue of the few A- and the fact that you can't get anything higher then a 4.0 even if you got an A+.

I know I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my grades, but I worked hard to pull off straight As and want to say proudly that I have a 4.0 but I couldn't because of the stupid +/- thing.

Down with the +/- system!!!

And yes... a cut-off of 98% for an A is rediculous... maybe a good cut-off for an A+ but definitely not for an A

 

[klmnop]

Honestly, I'd say quit your whinin'!

From your description, I'm actually 100% on the prof's side on this. The truth is that VERY few students should get an A in any given class -- probably only 2-5% (and another 5-10% A-s). Otherwise, you are devaluing what an A is.

disagree. in science courses at least, which are fact-based, the grade given should be the grade earned. if everyone scores a 40/50 on an exam (save a handful below), they should all get A's. it is a reflection on how well the professor covers the material as to how well the best students do. limiting grades should be left to the subjective courses like polisci, philosophy, sociology, history, etc, in which the strength of your argument is what determines your score, and thus can be ranked amongst your peers. Likewise, if everyone gets a 10/50 (save a handful below), it means 80% of the material was not taught well enough and the new score should be out of less. thus the highest 10-20% should get A's.

 

[klmnop]

I always thought that GPA should be based on a 5 point scale and if you get, say a 92 in a class, it should covert to a 4.2 a 100% = 5.0, 85% = 3.5, 74% = 2.4 etc. I always hated that I could get an "A" in a class, but if it was an A minus, my GPA would go below 4.0. I got straight A's in college, yet my final GPA was like a 3.89 or something becasue of the few A- and the fact that you can't get anything higher then a 4.0 even if you got an A+.

I know I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my grades, but I worked hard to pull off straight As and want to say proudly that I have a 4.0 but I couldn't because of the stupid +/- thing.

Down with the +/- system!!!

And yes... a cut-off of 98% for an A is rediculous... maybe a good cut-off for an A+ but definitely not for an A

If its just dividing the percentage by 20 to get it on a 5 pt scale then you really don't need to convert it... just leave it as a percentage which is more accurate. There are canadian schools and some high schools that do this... use percentages instead of letters across the board and thus have no GPA's. i find they are a truer measure of one's work and are much easier to interpret.

Also, the problem with the 4pt scale is not that an A- is a 3.7 and all A's can theoretically bring you below a 4.0, but the fact that the distance between an A and an A- is 0.3, whereas the distance between an A- and B+ is 0.4. Likewise the difference between a B and B- is 0.3 and B- and C+ is 0.4. The result is the difference between a B+ and an A- (often 0.5%) becomes more influential than the difference between a B+ and a B.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I feel like the point of exams is to test your knowledge and mastery not to separate people out. The purpose of universities is to teach. While some students may want to be able to stand out from their classmates for the purpose of things like admissions to professional schools etc, the goal of the university is to provide these students with skills and a fundamental knowledge base.

I think if a bunch of students in the class master the material, they should get a grade that reflects that. Now if an instructor wants to challenge you more by going to a greater depth or covering more information, I think that should be their call. I just don't agree with saying things like I'm going to only give 2 A's or whatever. You should be graded on your individual level of mastery, not on comparison with your classmates.

 

[Sammich117]

disagree. in science courses at least, which are fact-based, the grade given should be the grade earned. if everyone scores a 40/50 on an exam (save a handful below), they should all get A's. it is a reflection on how well the professor covers the material as to how well the best students do. limiting grades should be left to the subjective courses like polisci, philosophy, sociology, history, etc, in which the strength of your argument is what determines your score, and thus can be ranked amongst your peers. Likewise, if everyone gets a 10/50 (save a handful below), it means 80% of the material was not taught well enough and the new score should be out of less. thus the highest 10-20% should get A's.

I agree with this

 

[riverjib]

I know most people I talk to are not a fan of the plus and minus grade system around UNF and other schools. I noticed that a plus or minus grade can be assigned at the teacher's will. Most science teachers I have taken put the FULL A starting at 94 %, which is a bit high but reachable for some. I have taken a few science and non science teachers that put the bar even higher at 96% and one that put an A at 98%. This is a bit difficult to say the least. Now when you look the B scale some teacher put a B- grade as low as 78% and a B+ as high as 92%. When I went to some of my teachers to ask for a justification for setting the bar so high , he told me flat " No one should get an A in my classes ( YEP, CLASSES). I hate giving them, love to give Bs but I hate giving As as much as I hate seeing F students in class" I found this to be a general consensus in my school around most teachers. One teacher, whose class I quite enjoyed, gave Plus or minus based on attendance. So if you earn a 99 A in the class because it was easy but you never came to class you got an A-. What experience do you guys have with this plus and minus system and do you feel it is just a slap to students who work hard and earn As or just a required evil?
Should every grade be based on a 10 percent scale or should the teacher be able to change that?

That is why they call the MCAT the great equalizer. I wouldn't worry too much about A- grades, since grades vary so much. And if attendance is factored in, just showing up will boost your grade.

 

[Ischemic]

I always thought that GPA should be based on a 5 point scale and if you get, say a 92 in a class, it should covert to a 4.2 a 100% = 5.0, 85% = 3.5, 74% = 2.4 etc. I always hated that I could get an "A" in a class, but if it was an A minus, my GPA would go below 4.0. I got straight A's in college, yet my final GPA was like a 3.89 or something becasue of the few A- and the fact that you can't get anything higher then a 4.0 even if you got an A+.

I know I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my grades, but I worked hard to pull off straight As and want to say proudly that I have a 4.0 but I couldn't because of the stupid +/- thing.

Down with the +/- system!!!

And yes... a cut-off of 98% for an A is rediculous... maybe a good cut-off for an A+ but definitely not for an A

lol good luck in med school where the curve and competition is steeper covering 10X more material. I can guarantee that you won't get all Honors or whatever the highest grade your school uses. That being said you probably could try to do it by studying 24/7 but you have to ask yourself if it's worth it especially when so little weight is put on your first 2 year grades. Not to mention you'll probably get burned out and end up hating your med school experience because all you do is study. Hear me now believe me later that with that attitude med school is gonna be no fun for you.

 

[FloatOn]

I feel like the point of exams is to test your knowledge and mastery not to separate people out. The purpose of universities is to teach. While some students may want to be able to stand out from their classmates for the purpose of things like admissions to professional schools etc, the goal of the university is to provide these students with skills and a fundamental knowledge base.

I think if a bunch of students in the class master the material, they should get a grade that reflects that. Now if an instructor wants to challenge you more by going to a greater depth or covering more information, I think that should be their call. I just don't agree with saying things like I'm going to only give 2 A's or whatever. You should be graded on your individual level of mastery, not on comparison with your classmates.

Exactly. I think the best classes are those that are challenging yet you still learn a lot and you're graded on your performance.

I had a professor that did multiple multiple choice exams. Those truly tested you because people who had a strong grasp on the material could distinguish one answer choice from another, and people who half-assed their studying had no idea what was going on.

 

[klmnop]

Exactly. I think the best classes are those that are challenging yet you still learn a lot and you're graded on your performance.

I had a professor that did multiple multiple choice exams. Those truly tested you because people who had a strong grasp on the material could distinguish one answer choice from another, and people who half-assed their studying had no idea what was going on.

ha, you had "a" professor that did MC exams... singular? what kind of premed did you do? i'd disagree, unless the MC questions are Type II:

A only
B only
A & C
B & D
Alll or None

....(which are more difficult) you can easily guess your way through a traditional MC exam to get a mid B. a written exam (not fill in the blank but essays) is far more comprehensive because you have to describe processes, and missing important parts or confusing steps creates drastically wrong answers. its the only real way to test ones true understanding of how things work from beginning to end.

 

[Ischemic]

ha, you had "a" professor that did MC exams... singular? what kind of premed did you do? i'd disagree, unless the MC questions are Type II:

A only
B only
A & C
B & D
Alll or None

....(which are more difficult) you can easily guess your way through a traditional MC exam to get a mid B. a written exam (not fill in the blank but essays) is far more comprehensive because you have to describe processes, and missing important parts or confusing steps creates drastically wrong answers. its the only real way to test ones true understanding of how things work from beginning to end.

No, that's not true. All med school tests are MC and they're all many more times more difficult than your average undergrad test, at least in some schools. It's not all "what enzyme does X reaction" or "where does angiotensinogen get produced?". They can easily nitpick details as to give you a patient scenario and give you options of what is going on cardiovascularly using physiology concepts and playing with the variables. You have to know all the variables and what they mean/do. You can't halfass your answer. You can guess that's true but you can't guess on all the questions.

Too many kids to have short answer/essay questions and those questions are not nearly comprehensive enough to cover all the material unless you want to have a whole day long test.

 

[klmnop]

No, that's not true. All med school tests are MC and they're all many more times more difficult than your average undergrad test, at least in some schools. It's not all "what enzyme does X reaction" or "where does angiotensinogen get produced?". They can easily nitpick details as to give you a patient scenario and give you options of what is going on cardiovascularly using physiology concepts and playing with the variables. You have to know all the variables and what they mean/do. You can't halfass your answer. You can guess that's true but you can't guess on all the questions.

Too many kids to have short answer/essay questions and those questions are not nearly comprehensive enough to cover all the material unless you want to have a whole day long test.

i think were in agreement. i said mc exams are easier, unless they are type II. yes type I can be hard but it is different. with the type II questions you have to know if all the answer choices are correct in order to get the answer right, and these are arguably more difficult than a type I question where you can narrow it down to two choices. also, long essays (not short answer or paragraphs, but pages long with in depth questions and responses) is what i was referring to. short-answer tests are a joke. also, im not saying ugrad MC exams are easier or harder as I am 100% sure they are easier then med school

 

[FloatOn]

No, that's not true. All med school tests are MC and they're all many more times more difficult than your average undergrad test, at least in some schools. It's not all "what enzyme does X reaction" or "where does angiotensinogen get produced?". They can easily nitpick details as to give you a patient scenario and give you options of what is going on cardiovascularly using physiology concepts and playing with the variables. You have to know all the variables and what they mean/do. You can't halfass your answer. You can guess that's true but you can't guess on all the questions.

Too many kids to have short answer/essay questions and those questions are not nearly comprehensive enough to cover all the material unless you want to have a whole day long test.

Yeah, the professor/class I was referring to was physiology. You definitely know one answer is true, but another answer choice, which you never really thought of before, sounds just as plausible and good, so you're not sure if you should go with just the first answer or go for it and choose both of them. That was like 75% of the test.

 

[FloatOn]

ha, you had "a" professor that did MC exams... singular? what kind of premed did you do? i'd disagree, unless the MC questions are Type II:

A only
B only
A & C
B & D
Alll or None

....(which are more difficult) you can easily guess your way through a traditional MC exam to get a mid B. a written exam (not fill in the blank but essays) is far more comprehensive because you have to describe processes, and missing important parts or confusing steps creates drastically wrong answers. its the only real way to test ones true understanding of how things work from beginning to end.

Those were the types of questions. We just call them multiple multiple choice, I guess because there are choices within the choices.

 

[klmnop]

Those were the types of questions. We just call them multiple multiple choice, I guess because there are choices within the choices.

Gotcha, yeah then those are a bitch....

 

[futureNCmed]

lol good luck in med school where the curve and competition is steeper covering 10X more material. I can guarantee that you won't get all Honors or whatever the highest grade your school uses. That being said you probably could try to do it by studying 24/7 but you have to ask yourself if it's worth it especially when so little weight is put on your first 2 year grades. Not to mention you'll probably get burned out and end up hating your med school experience because all you do is study. Hear me now believe me later that with that attitude med school is gonna be no fun for you.

oh believe me... I know I"m going to have to get over that perfectionist tendency when I start med school later this year! I was just venting because I hated the +/- system in undergrad mostly because I did so terribly in high school... actually dropped out then started over in undergrad. The first college I attended for my freshman/sophomore year did not do +/- system and when I transferred junior year, my new undergrad school did and I was just thrown off. I took a lot of pride in my 4.0, but I will also take a lot of pride in just PASSING medical school. Unfortunately, the med school I will be attending DOES do traditional grade scale for the first two years (was hoping to go to a pass/fail school), but I'll get over it and study as much as I can and be happy to pass with whatever grade.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Arkansas Education: K-12 and Higher Education

90-100%: A
80-89%: B
70-79%: C
60-69%: D
0-59%: F

 

[psharma02]

Gotcha, yeah then those are a bitch....

I once had a class where there were a handful of options (maybe 5-10) for each question, and the prof told us the answer can be any combination of the options! i.e. # 7 could be A,B,C, and E while # 6 is A,D,F, and G. Some even had no answers and there was an option for that. Stupid exam...

 

[Earl Grey]

The highest I've seen is 96% for an A... but that's about it. 98% is a bit much I agree...

 

[JJMrK]

I know most people I talk to are not a fan of the plus and minus grade system around UNF and other schools. I noticed that a plus or minus grade can be assigned at the teacher's will. Most science teachers I have taken put the FULL A starting at 94 %, which is a bit high but reachable for some. I have taken a few science and non science teachers that put the bar even higher at 96% and one that put an A at 98%. This is a bit difficult to say the least. Now when you look the B scale some teacher put a B- grade as low as 78% and a B+ as high as 92%. When I went to some of my teachers to ask for a justification for setting the bar so high , he told me flat " No one should get an A in my classes ( YEP, CLASSES). I hate giving them, love to give Bs but I hate giving As as much as I hate seeing F students in class" I found this to be a general consensus in my school around most teachers. One teacher, whose class I quite enjoyed, gave Plus or minus based on attendance. So if you earn a 99 A in the class because it was easy but you never came to class you got an A-. What experience do you guys have with this plus and minus system and do you feel it is just a slap to students who work hard and earn As or just a required evil?
Should every grade be based on a 10 percent scale or should the teacher be able to change that?

TBH, I would drop any class with that grading scale like its hot.