Is the MCAT worth studying for so long?

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omegaz

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Someone said that only 13 out of 52 questions of one section require outside knowledge so you're essentially spending months preparing for those 13 questions.

Personally I don't agree with this person. What do yall think?
 
Someone said that only 13 out of 52 questions of one section require outside knowledge so you're essentially spending months preparing for those 13 questions.

Personally I don't agree with this person. What do yall think?

no.
 
Someone said that only 13 out of 52 questions of one section require outside knowledge so you're essentially spending months preparing for those 13 questions.

Personally I don't agree with this person. What do yall think?

You need the familiarity with the material to understand and analyze the passages in a limited amount of time. 13 questions can be worth 3-4 points and between the two science sections, this is the difference between a viable score and a retake. The person telling you this sounds uninformed, put in the necessary work so you don't have to live with a terrible score.
 
Someone said that only 13 out of 52 questions of one section require outside knowledge so you're essentially spending months preparing for those 13 questions.

Personally I don't agree with this person. What do yall think?

Sadly there's little substitute for hard work. 13 out of 52 questions per section is a lot. Not that I would agree with that statement anyway. I think there are many questions which "benefit" from outside knowledge and you can use it to avoid wasting time or reasoning falsely. Also, the more you study, the more familiar you are with testing styles, common logical pitfalls, etc etc. Just learning the information is only part of the benefit of studying.
 
Spend the time and study.

Alternatively, you could not study, waste the $$$ to take the exam, do poorly, study, retake the test, do well, then spend months agonizing on SDN about how your previously poor performance will affect your chances of acceptance.

There are no shortcuts in life or medical education. Just do it right the first time.

Survivor DO
 
then spend months agonizing on SDN about how your previously poor performance will affect your chances of acceptance.

Survivor DO

This is true, right? Your previously poor performance will greatly affect your chances, right?
 
This is true, right? Your previously poor performance will greatly affect your chances, right?

Not really, because 90% of med schools only look at your more recent or highest scored MCAT.
 
you want to spend a lot of time and get it right because a great score will hopefully help you get in but a great score that expires, and needs to be re-earned (hopefully this won't happen) isn't worth anything.

So study a lot but not too much. Only you know what it takes for you to get the score you want. Do the practice problems; you'll notice patterns and get the feel for the "hot" concepts. I would say an hour or two 4 or 5 times a week for a few months would be good; but again...only you know what you have to do...maybe more maybe less. Good Luck!
 
Not sure what you would consider "so long" but it's certainly worth studying as much as you personally need to get the score that you want. Personally, when it came to studying biology, I had a very rudimentary background (AP bio in high school that was a complete joke + 1 semester of intro neuroscience), so I spent a couple of weeks* studying general things that I considered high-yield (that probably would have been covered if I had actually taken intro bio in college), but didn't kill myself trying to memorize details.

I definitely encountered standalone questions that made me go, yup, I consciously didn't spend that much time on this topic and so I will probably get this wrong, but it wasn't worth it to me to spend an extra few months studying. I made sure I knew the basic concepts for each section pretty well, went into the test knowing I would get a score in my desired range, and that was it.

*I definitely prepared for more than just a couple of weeks, but mostly did practice tests/problems - the only solid content studying I did was for bio. My score improved probably 3-4 points just from getting used to the test format and 2-3 points from the bio content studying.
 
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I did very well on my MCAT taking only the 4 intro pre-req classes. Pretty much all the material covered by the MCAT should be in those classes (if they are taught correctly). It probably helped that I took all 4 classes within a year, which sort of acted like an MCAT bootcamp.
 
Someone said that only 13 out of 52 questions of one section require outside knowledge so you're essentially spending months preparing for those 13 questions.

Personally I don't agree with this person. What do yall think?

I think this person is speaking out their sigmoid colon. When I took the MCAT, there were WAY more than 13 questions on each PS and BS which required outside knowledge.



Don't get caught up in the (false) belief that you can't study for the MCAT. It's a comprehension test which requires mastery of the material AND the ability to read scientific passages with a critical mind. As someone above me posted, you can raise your score just by getting used to the kind of questions which are going to be asked.
 
Someone said that only 13 out of 52 questions of one section require outside knowledge so you're essentially spending months preparing for those 13 questions.

Personally I don't agree with this person. What do yall think?

I'd be interested to know how this person fared on the test.
 
Is the MCAT worth studying for so long?

Worth? Depends...

I waited until I finished all the prereqs before taking the mcat. It was pretty funny how little these courses helped...very professor-dependent. Plug and chug physics, etc.

After my last final exam, I finally started my prep. Ispent 3.5 weeks prepping hardcore (1 FL per day, read textbook material in the afternoon, review day's FL that evening)... after 21 days or so I didn't have any more material to go over but it didn't matter as the actual test day at that point was only a few days away.

Test went well enough.

Long story short, yes, people tend to prep too much. Is it worth it? I don't know. Satisfactory results can come with a month's study for the average hard worker. While I knew things like F=ma going into prep period... gas chemistry, fluid physics, electrochemistry, etc, I had to learn basically from scratch.

All that said, the thought of studying for the mcat for 3+ months makes me wince.
 
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Not really, because 90% of med schools only look at your more recent or highest scored MCAT.

I believe most only take into account your most recent MCAT, but ALL med schools have the ability to see ALL of your scores, even ones that have expired. That's why people get asked, why didn't you study properly the first time if you got a 26 and then a 30+ on your retake?

Also if you take it twice and get a lower score the second time, obviously this is very very bad. I don't think many schools look at only the highest score, especially if the lower score was a retake.
 
No cutting corners. Tell the person to stop being lazy. just do the work and study.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile
 
What this person is referring to is the "discrete questions".

Both Physical Sciences and Biological Sciences have approximately 13 out of 52 questions where they are purely outside information. They questions basically are passage independent so you can not reason based off a passage. Some examples of these questions are genetic types that require punnet squares, physics optics questions, acid base calculations, and stereoisomer questions etc. Those are the classical discretes for each section. With that being said, I've taken AAMCs and the real thing and they really come up with some crazy out of left field discretes that are so random it's ridiculous. I don't want to get too in depth though because my account can be banned and my MCAT might be revoked (not sure about that one but I know AAMC doesn't tolerate academic dishonesty)-I know this because there was a question someone who got banned posted and it was on my MCAT as well. Anyways, so ya, 13 of those questions are discretes on PS and BS but those are the ones that are PURELY from outside studying.


Now for the passages, you could have a passage on let's say a bio/chem/physics passage on respiratory physio. That's one of the most integrated topics. Chem because of buffer, bio because of it being the lungs, and physics because of pressure and volume relationship.

Okay so here's are a couple of PASSAGE QUESTION that I completely made up (I think...it might be coming from some random memory from an AAMC or TBR/TPR material):

Passage: Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah...external intercostals work in unison leading to inspiration...blah blah blah blah blah blah blah .....irregular breathing patterns can lead to changes in blood chemistry......blah blah blah blah...inflammatory cytokine TNF alpha leads to macrophage recruitment followed by several inflammatory mediators. This leads to fibrosis of pulmonary tissue. blah blah blah blah cortisol levels lead to respiratory distress...blah blah blah blah blah blah

Exp. 1: Group A rats were blah blah blah...Rats in group B were injected with .1 mg/mL serum ovalbumin. (somewhere in there they'll imply that this causes asthma)

Assume Blah Blah Blah is extra information...

1. If the external intercostal muscles were to contract what would happen?
a.) the heart rate would increase to increase blood flow to lungs
b.) the volume of the lungs would decrease
c.) the blood pressure would decrease
d.) the pressure in the lungs would decrease

2.) Kussmel Breathing is an abnormal breathing pattern where a patient blows of an excess amount of carbon dioxide. What affect does this have on the patient?
a.) an increase in the bicarbonate concentration in blood
b.) decrease in pH in the blood because of a decrease in bicarbonate
c.) pH stays the same due to homeostasis but metabolites are depleted
d.) severely respiratory alkalosis occurs due to Le Chatelier's Principle

3.) If a researcher injected a synthetic TNF alpha antagonist into the rats' lungs in group B what would take place?

a.) the respiratory rate would increase
b.) the respiratory rate would decrease severely
c.) inspiratory reserve volume would resemble the control group
d.) the injection would decrease cortisol levels

4.) Which of the following statements is false:
a.) the bronchioles are innervated by the sympathetic nervous system
b.) alveolar surfactant decrease surface tension of alveoli allowing them to expand further
c.) bronchioles mark the beginning of the conducting division of the lungs
d.) alveoli are primarily responsible for gas exchange in the lungs

5.) Which cellular component is critical for macrophage phagocytosis:
a.) dynein
b.) microfilaments
c.) cell wall
d.) mitochondria

Ok, haha well this was a short random passage. Couple things to keep in mind before I tell you about it.

1. It's not representative. It's too integrative and I wouldn't know what section to put it in.

2. It's not well written (questions don't resemble AAMC).

3.) Some of it could be factually incorrect (pulled it out of my ass)

Anyways, so looking at #1 this is an example of a question that requires you to read a particular sentence in a bunch of filler and use a tid-bit of outside knowledge or common sense to ascertain an answer. I'd say if I hadn't studied, I would have wasted about 30 more seconds. However, I did study and as soon as I saw intercostal muscles in the passage I would have primed myself for a volume/pressure inverse relationship question. You get used to this after reviewing so much from prep books and taking exams. Also, I wouldn't waste time going back to see what external intercostals do. I learnt this when I studied anatomy and then it was reinforced by princeton review. The question would take me a coupla seconds to save elsewhere. Number 2: I don't think everyone knows what Kussmel breathing so this might be one of those things they're trying to intimidate you and make you think you need outside knowledge which might make your friends assertion seem accurate. However, it does still require some outside knowledge. Note how the CO2 solubility equilibria formula is not stated in the passage. It's one of those really critical things they want you to memorize. If you did you'd realize that a decrease in bicarbonate would lead to an accumulation of H+ and a decrease in pH (also if I hadn't been bitten by the pH thing so many times I might have said increased pH even though I knew it was increased acidity-practice is another reason you want to study...studying isn't just reading and memorizing, a good 50% of your time should be doing and analyzing problems. Now number three is a bit questionable but I remember reading in TBR (I think) several factors which decrease lung elasticity. Fibrosis was one of them. Also, anyone can come up with the intuition that fibrosis is a process where fiber is laid down which is tough and reduces elasticity. Then you'd have to not confuse antagonist with agonist and realize that an antagonist is actually blocking TNF alphas effect which if you refer to the passage is basically fibrosis. In short, this means the lung's elasticity will be conserved and if you know your respiratory physio you'd know that that would increase IRV back to normal (i.e. the control group). Therefore, there's information in the passage but you need to know what an antagonist is (requires careful reading which takes practice as not to skim over and think agonist) and you need to understand what IRV is. #4 is what I call a pseudo-discrete. Note that stuff about alveoli or bronchioles aren't mentioned. This is where you just need to know some important facts facts/concepts about respiratory physiology. Excellent examples of these are occur alot in orgo where they are talking about a molecule and are asking you about reactions and all of a sudden they ask you how many stereoisomers a molecule can make or how many stereocenters it has. Its related to the material in terms of subject material but not conceptually, that's a pseudodiscrete. Number 5 is also a pseudodiscrete. You'd have to know the functions of actin and what actin is. Ok, as you can see your friend is wrong. Though 13/52 questions stand alone and purely require outside information, out of the other 39 a lot of them require some outside information to apply to the situation and a lot can sure be made quicker if you learn to anticipate and know what they see as important and will likely be asking for in the questions. Also, if you straight up know a term, sometimes that will give you the answer vs. having to scan back in the passage to try to discern what it means in context. Sure, some questions can be purely ascertained from the passage. There are some answer choices you can sure as hell eliminate because if you read a sentence in the passage it contradicts a choice but this is less common. There are often multiple ways of getting a question right. Sometimes, knowing something off the top of your head is one and number two is going back and reading and number three (in the case of physics is perhaps doing calculation). If you can memorize relationships like PE of capacitor and voltage you can blow by these questions leaving time for others. This is the beauty of the MCAT. They have all types of questions. Reading comp, critical thinking, memorization...Of course they do emphasize the first two over the latter but testing all three is appropriate for a test for future physicians. I say that with a pretty mediocre score as well... Unfortunately, all this may be invalid very soon with the new 2015 MCAT. I have no idea about that 🙁

Oh ya answers are
DBCCB; Comment if you're confused.
 
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Oh, well this is news to me. Could you please provide a link? I remember seeing a list somewhere on this forum and when skimming it for my schools of interest (and most schools) I was under the impression they looked at the most recent scores. You are, after all, an attending. Maybe it's changed since then? I don't know, then again you could have served on admissions boards recently as well.

EDIT:

Oh ok, it's not as clear as a I thought.

Here's a study done by Academic Medicine (associated w/ AAMC) that concludes that averaging is the best predictor for USLME scores:

http://journals.lww.com/academicmed...f_Four_Approaches_of_Using_Repeaters_.19.aspx

And here's the thread it came from along with someone posting the policies of a bunch of schools. He/she doesn't state source so I don't know how reliable it is and to add to the uncertainty he posted in 2004. In a thread bump to 2010 LizzyM chimes in to say that her school will shift to use the average MCAT because there's no reason not to use the best evidence. Then a couple other posters seem to agree with her while some express their frustration (and rightly so IMO) but no one says anything to contradict this new thread. LizzyM in response to someone asking her if more school's are adopting the policy just says it's the school's choice but doesn't give any specifics.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=119179&page=2


IMO this is very unclear. Is it that way on purpose? Do we have to call the schools and do the work ourselves? I find it hard to believe someone hasn't made a list for something this important!

Any info would be appreciated. All this is news to me.
 
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They use averages heavily to look at gpa, why wouldn't they on the MCAT?

Would having a 3.7 senior year completely make up for the first 3 years at a 2.3, then why would scoring a 31 on a retake erase the 19 scored the first time?
 
They use averages heavily to look at gpa, why wouldn't they on the MCAT?

Would having a 3.7 senior year completely make up for the first 3 years at a 2.3, then why would scoring a 31 on a retake erase the 19 scored the first time?

because thats a massive change
 
because thats a massive change

They are both massive changes.

I think the point Gyngyn was making is that even at schools that don't explicitly take the average of an applicant's MCAT scores they still see the first scores. While those older scores may carry less weight, a really low score from a previous administration is unlikely to be entirely ignored, either. They use any and all information they have access to, and the MCAT score report they get includes all an applicant's scores.
 
They use averages heavily to look at gpa, why wouldn't they on the MCAT?

Would having a 3.7 senior year completely make up for the first 3 years at a 2.3, then why would scoring a 31 on a retake erase the 19 scored the first time?

While the case you use is pretty rare I don't think it's reasonable to use averages on the MCAT. See GPA is your performance average in various courses at an undergraduate university. The MCAT, IMO, is a process. It's one that you learn more and more from as you study. True, a lot of it is learning to take the test but a good part of it is realizing things that are biologically relevant. I've noticed things they ask for like: which one inhibits translation is just a precursor to the kinds of questions that are medically relevant like what would this drug to bacterial ribsomes. Anyways, the point is that you work to a goal MCAT every day you study. If you score a 25 for example the first time and then score a 30 the next time, chances are you studied and learned more and are now a 30 student, not a 25 student. However, in terms of GPA, each semester is different and if you get a A in Organic and B+ in Anatomy and then next semester get an A in Biochem and B+ in Physiology and A in Cell Biology chances it's an average of his or her strengths and weaknesses (in this case, the student seems to stronger at the molecular level). Now there's always the case where grades suck at first as a student adjusts and they pick up later or vice versa due to slacking but I feel that should be looked down upon more than a poor MCAT score. The MCAT is something that is assessed over one day while a GPA takes a whole semester to screw up. Overall, I have no sympathy for someone who has a good MCAT but sub 3.3 GPA (assuming their major/classes.university weren't insanely difficult).


As for what Gyngyn meant, if that's the case then I can live with that 🙂 because my score wasn't attrocious.
 
While the case you use is pretty rare I don't think it's reasonable to use averages on the MCAT. See GPA is your performance average in various courses at an undergraduate university. The MCAT, IMO, is a process. It's one that you learn more and more from as you study. True, a lot of it is learning to take the test but a good part of it is realizing things that are biologically relevant. I've noticed things they ask for like: which one inhibits translation is just a precursor to the kinds of questions that are medically relevant like what would this drug to bacterial ribsomes. Anyways, the point is that you work to a goal MCAT every day you study. If you score a 25 for example the first time and then score a 30 the next time, chances are you studied and learned more and are now a 30 student, not a 25 student. However, in terms of GPA, each semester is different and if you get a A in Organic and B+ in Anatomy and then next semester get an A in Biochem and B+ in Physiology and A in Cell Biology chances it's an average of his or her strengths and weaknesses (in this case, the student seems to stronger at the molecular level). Now there's always the case where grades suck at first as a student adjusts and they pick up later or vice versa due to slacking but I feel that should be looked down upon more than a poor MCAT score. The MCAT is something that is assessed over one day while a GPA takes a whole semester to screw up. Overall, I have no sympathy for someone who has a good MCAT but sub 3.3 GPA (assuming their major/classes.university weren't insanely difficult).


As for what Gyngyn meant, if that's the case then I can live with that 🙂 because my score wasn't attrocious.

Undergrad is also a process... Is the student who finished senior year with a 4.0 in tough upper division science not an A student because of the D in English 101 freshman year?
Some people took undergrad as seriously as some premeds take their MCAT prep, not very.

A grade in a class can easily be decided by a couple 1-2 hr exams, this is not much different than the MCAT. A bad showing in one of the "3 short exams" on the MCAT will blow your score just as bad as a tanking the calculus midterm.

Why would retakes of the MCAT be a simple academic do-over when it isn't for coursework? The average with heavy emphasis on what is most recent is a more realistic take on performance.
 
My friend applied last year with a 34 MCAT (11 V, 12 BS, 11 PS) and was told by the dean of admissions from a top 10 school that she should retake the MCAT to get a higher score. That implies that they weigh your highest score much more heavily.

I also think it matters how well or how poor you did on your first MCAT. Obviously it is different if someone went from a 23 to 31 than from a 31 to 36.
 
They are both massive changes.

I think the point Gyngyn was making is that even at schools that don't explicitly take the average of an applicant's MCAT scores they still see the first scores. While those older scores may carry less weight, a really low score from a previous administration is unlikely to be entirely ignored, either. They use any and all information they have access to, and the MCAT score report they get includes all an applicant's scores.
You are correct.

Whatever a school's public stance on multiple MCAT scores, the screeners and the committee see all the scores in chronologcal order and inevitably see patterns. Interpretation of the scores will vary depending on experience and viewpoint.

In my experience three things are clear. Getting the same score or a score only slightly better is not helpful. Getting a worse score is extremely detrimental. Retaking a good score risks presumption of arrogance.
 
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