is the situation really that bleak?

[Doogie Howser]

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i'm in the middle of deciding between medicine and dentistry and when i was talking to a doctor, he tried his hardest to make me go into dentistry. He's a urologist and he cited insurance as the reason for his disdain for medicine as a whole right now. He told me a story where him and his parter recieved $400 total from an insurance company for a kidney removal which as many of you know doesn't even come close to covering their operational costs, let alone a profit (they have since dropped coverage for them).

my question is, is the outlook really this bleak for medicine or should i take his complaining with a grain of salt seeing how he is a member at 2 very expensive country clubs and owns a million dollar house.

p.s. please don't do the following (since this is what most of these threads turn into)
-med vs. dent debate
-tell me how i should decide which profession is for me, i'm already going about that the right way.
-tell me that self righteous crap "go into medicine solely because of your passion for it and don't worry about the money" because it is completely ok to wonder about the financial situation of the job you are thinking about pursuing

thanks,
tj

 

[Wednesday]

Grain of salt.

(And if you hadn't had all those warnings I would have said, "Are you interested in teeth or not?")

 

[footcramp]

boy you sure have a lot of demands. anyway, go into dentistry if you want money and lifestyle. medicine offers one thing that others don't offer, and that's prestige. if prestige is what you're after, then medicine is for you. otherwise dentistry offers a great lifestyle with a lot of freedom and great salary. plus there is no residency, and you don't get treated like crap as a student or resident. the financial situation in medicine is not as great as it was before, and it's getting worse and worse. however it's still decent. urologists on average will bank 250k a year at about 55-60 hrs a week with very few emergencies. how good or bad that seems is open to your interpretation.

that being said, i will be SHOCKED if you don't inevitably go into medicine, like everyone else who asks this question.

 

[Doogie Howser]

Grain of salt.

(And if you hadn't had all those warnings I would have said, "Are you interested in teeth or not?")

haha sorry about all those warnings but i just want a discussion on my topic and not have someone hijack the thread to one of those very common discussions

 

[gregMD]

i'm in the middle of deciding between medicine and dentistry and when i was talking to a doctor, he tried his hardest to make me go into dentistry. He's a urologist and he cited insurance as the reason for his disdain for medicine as a whole right now. He told me a story where him and his parter recieved $400 total from an insurance company for a kidney removal which as many of you know doesn't even come close to covering their operational costs, let alone a profit (they have since dropped coverage for them).

my question is, is the outlook really this bleak for medicine or should i take his complaining with a grain of salt seeing how he is a member at 2 very expensive country clubs and owns a million dollar house.

p.s. please don't do the following (since this is what most of these threads turn into)
-med vs. dent debate
-tell me how i should decide which profession is for me, i'm already going about that the right way.
-tell me that self righteous crap "go into medicine solely because of your passion for it and don't worry about the money" because it is completely ok to wonder about the financial situation of the job you are thinking about pursuing

thanks,
tj

firstly, dont f'n tell us how to respond to your ridiculous post.

secondly, why does this guy having a million dollar house and membership to 2 country clubs negate his opinion? Given the tone of your post, sounds to me like you're money hungry... why not try being a banker instead.

 

[Law2Doc]

i'm in the middle of deciding between medicine and dentistry and when i was talking to a doctor, he tried his hardest to make me go into dentistry. He's a urologist and he cited insurance as the reason for his disdain for medicine as a whole right now. He told me a story where him and his parter recieved $400 total from an insurance company for a kidney removal which as many of you know doesn't even come close to covering their operational costs, let alone a profit (they have since dropped coverage for them).

my question is, is the outlook really this bleak for medicine or should i take his complaining with a grain of salt seeing how he is a member at 2 very expensive country clubs and owns a million dollar house.

p.s. please don't do the following (since this is what most of these threads turn into)
-med vs. dent debate
-tell me how i should decide which profession is for me, i'm already going about that the right way.
-tell me that self righteous crap "go into medicine solely because of your passion for it and don't worry about the money" because it is completely ok to wonder about the financial situation of the job you are thinking about pursuing

thanks,
tj

It's a very different practice today than it was a few decades ago. You don't always get reimbursements from insurance companies which equate to the value of the services provided, and a given procedure can end up being done at a loss, as was suggested by this kidney example. To earn the same money under a reimbursement system as you could under the prior free market system, you often have to do a much greater volume business. You can earn a very comfortable living in medicine. You might not be living in a million dollar house and belonging to two country clubs though, unless you invest well and make money beyond your doctor's salary, and even then it will likely not be for a very long time.
Two points -- in terms of the alleged "self righteous crap", it frankly isn't. Medicine is one of the longest and most expensive roads to take to a career. And once you get there, you will be working longer hours than most fields, and subject to greater pressures and responsibilities. If you aren't interested in or enjoying it, no sized paycheck will give you great happiness. Living for the weekend and dreading the Monday morning alarm clock is significantly worse when you are working a 60-80 hour per week career than if you are working a 50 hour a week one, even if the latter salary is lower. There's nothing self righteous about this statement. It's just a frank observation from many who have lived more life than perhaps you. There's a difference between "wondering about the financial situation" of a potential career, and being solely guided by it. Unless I and others on this thread are misunderstanding the emphasis in your post, you are unfortunately doing the latter.
Second point -- you got advice from a doctor already. How do you think asking the question to a board populated by med students is going to improve on that answer? I personally would try to speak with other physicians, of various vintages and in multiple specialties -- only then will you learn what is what. Also, it's probably a mistake to focus on the assets of this physician -- you don't know how he got them and also should bear in mind that medicine is undergoing a transition, and that assets obtained by this physician some time ago may not necessarilly closely reflect what one can attain under the current system.
Good luck with your decision.

 

[SkylineMD]

It's a very different practice today than it was a few decades ago. You don't always get reimbursements from insurance companies which equate to the value of the services provided, and a given procedure can end up being done at a loss, as was suggested by this kidney example. To earn the same money under a reimbursement system as you could under the prior free market system, you often have to do a much greater volume business. You can earn a very comfortable living in medicine. You might not be living in a million dollar house and belonging to two country clubs though, unless you invest well and make money beyond your doctor's salary, and even then it will likely not be for a very long time.
Two points -- in terms of the alleged "self righteous crap", it frankly isn't. Medicine is one of the longest and most expensive roads to take to a career. And once you get there, you will be working longer hours than most fields, and subject to greater pressures and responsibilities. If you aren't interested in or enjoying it, no sized paycheck will give you great happiness. Living for the weekend and dreading the Monday morning alarm clock is significantly worse when you are working a 60-80 hour per week career than if you are working a 50 hour a week one, even if the latter salary is lower. There's nothing self righteous about this statement. It's just a frank observation from many who have lived more life than perhaps you. There's a difference between "wondering about the financial situation" of a potential career, and being solely guided by it. Unless I and others on this thread are misunderstanding the emphasis in your post, you are unfortunately doing the latter.
Second point -- you got advice from a doctor already. How do you think asking the question to a board populated by med students is going to improve on that answer? I personally would try to speak with other physicians, of various vintages and in multiple specialties -- only then will you learn what is what. Also, it's probably a mistake to focus on the assets of this physician -- you don't know how he got them and also should bear in mind that medicine is undergoing a transition, and that assets obtained by this physician some time ago may not necessarilly closely reflect what one can attain under the current system.
Good luck with your decision.

Just about everything I wanted to say was said. If you want money, go into finance... thats it

 

[MossPoh]

Just about everything I wanted to say was said. If you want money, go into finance... thats it

Yea right.....cept my sister graduated with a 4.0 in finance from a very good university and wound up working at a wallpaper store now...but even when she did had jobs wasn't making THAT much. 😛

 

[SkylineMD]

Yea right.....cept my sister graduated with a 4.0 in finance from a very good university and wound up working at a wallpaper store now...but even when she did had jobs wasn't making THAT much. 😛

well i dont know about the people you know but my brother graduated with a comp sci degree and just received an offer for 140k in consulting (3yrs after completing his BS). A friend of mine received his finance and is an investment banker in NYC making pretty good money (don't know exact figures because i think its just rude to ask but hes doing quite well). There is no reason why a person who graduates with a 4.0 with finance should be working at a wallpaper store -- unless she did no internships at all which would be the kiss of death. There are many things that a person needs to do as a finance major in order to land one of these great jobs but just studying and getting grades is just one of the things to do

 

[Law2Doc]

well i dont know about the people you know but my brother graduated with a comp sci degree and just received an offer for 140k in consulting (3yrs after completing his BS). A friend of mine received his finance and is an investment banker in NYC making pretty good money (don't know exact figures because i think its just rude to ask but hes doing quite well). There is no reason why a person who graduates with a 4.0 with finance should be working at a wallpaper store -- unless she did no internships at all which would be the kiss of death. There are many things that a person needs to do as a finance major in order to land one of these great jobs but just studying and getting grades is just one of the things to do

Agree -- rather than merely succeeeding by virtue of being a finance major, it's more accurate to say that someone who makes the same effort towards finance as one would make toward the physician path has a pretty significant chance at success. But yes, you can wash out of any field (including medicine).

 

[deleted77919]

I personally would try to speak with other physicians, of various vintages and in multiple specialties -- only then will you learn what is what.

When people ask when I graduated med school I will refer to myself as "vintage 2010." Kind of has a nice ring.

 

[BozoSparky]

i'm in the middle of deciding between medicine and dentistry and when i was talking to a doctor, he tried his hardest to make me go into dentistry. He's a urologist and he cited insurance as the reason for his disdain for medicine as a whole right now. He told me a story where him and his parter recieved $400 total from an insurance company for a kidney removal which as many of you know doesn't even come close to covering their operational costs, let alone a profit (they have since dropped coverage for them).

my question is, is the outlook really this bleak for medicine or should i take his complaining with a grain of salt seeing how he is a member at 2 very expensive country clubs and owns a million dollar house.

p.s. please don't do the following (since this is what most of these threads turn into)
-med vs. dent debate
-tell me how i should decide which profession is for me, i'm already going about that the right way.
-tell me that self righteous crap "go into medicine solely because of your passion for it and don't worry about the money" because it is completely ok to wonder about the financial situation of the job you are thinking about pursuing

thanks,
tj

dude, it's Doogie Howser, M.D.

go to med school, Doogie.

 

[Doogie Howser]

There's a difference between "wondering about the financial situation" of a potential career, and being solely guided by it. Unless I and others on this thread are misunderstanding the emphasis in your post, you are unfortunately doing the latter.
Second point -- you got advice from a doctor already. How do you think asking the question to a board populated by med students is going to improve on that answer? I personally would try to speak with other physicians, of various vintages and in multiple specialties -- only then will you learn what is what. Also, it's probably a mistake to focus on the assets of this physician -- you don't know how he got them and also should bear in mind that medicine is undergoing a transition, and that assets obtained by this physician some time ago may not necessarilly closely reflect what one can attain under the current system.
Good luck with your decision.

thank you for actually responding to the post instead of just typing a stupid negative response

How i came to this decision in the first place for being either a dentist/doctor i first made sure that i had a passion for either field, and to be quite honest, what is making my decision so hard is that i could find myself being happy doing either one. As i hinted to in the op, for the past 3-4 months I've been persuing the correct avenues (volunteering at a hospital, talking to many doctors, shadowing both dentists and doctors) to help me make my decision, but unfortunately it has only clouded the waters more for me. So with that being said, my post IS geared more towards the salary of the job. For most people in the world, before entering the profession they like to know the potential for success. "Self righteous crap" was geared towards the people who claim they would go into medicine even if they got paid as little as minimum wage, which is just a lie. I fully understand that you can not go into any profession just for the money, thats why i tried to weed out people from telling me that in the op, but worrying about finances is 100% normal.

i was also under the impression that some older people also lurk in the corners of these forums sometimes, so i was trying to pry some of them out of the shadows as well, but all valuable input is appreciated. thank you

 

[footcramp]

high paying medical specialties:
interventional radiology as high as 600k+, 6 yrs residency
interventional pain potentially over a million, 5 yrs residency
ortho/neuro spine potentially over a million, 5-7+ yrs
med GI potentially 700k+, 6 yrs
cardiac anesthesia 600-700+, 5-6 yrs

that being said, the average US doctor probably makes around 200k at around 50-60 hrs.

i have no idea what the earnings ceiling in dentistry is, but if you work as hard as the people above, i'm sure it can't be too difficult. don't forget the years spent in residency, as that can lower your lifetime earning power significantly. hope that helps you greedy bastard. 🙂

 

[Eyesore]

high paying medical specialties:
interventional radiology as high as 600k+, 6 yrs residency
interventional pain potentially over a million, 5 yrs residency
ortho/neuro spine potentially over a million, 5-7+ yrs
med GI potentially 700k+, 6 yrs
cardiac anesthesia 600-700+, 5-6 yrs

i have no idea what the earnings ceiling in dentistry is, but if you work as hard as the people above, i'm sure it can't be too difficult. don't forget the years spent in residency, as that can lower your lifetime earning power significantly. hope that helps you greedy bastard. 🙂

Agree