Is there such a thing as TOO much volunteering?

[aztlannation]

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So I have a friend of mine that is applying to medical school next cycle. She recently changed career paths from business to medicine. I'm helping her with the process and getting her familiar with the "pre-med" world - at least to the extent that I know it.

Anyway, she told me this is her volunteer schedule:

Monday/Wednesday: Nursing home
Tuesday/Thursday: tutoring/mentoring
Friday/Saturday: World Relief + soccer
Sunday : Berkeley Literature Project

She has had this schedule for about a year. She is also taking her prerequisite courses so she is VERY busy. In my opinion, she is doing too much volunteer work. I think it gives the impression that she is just doing it to beef up her application for when she applies. This is my interpretation of it though. What to do you guys think?!?

 

[JuanPabloCastel]

what are you expecting the consequences of too much volunteering to be?

 

[aztlannation]

I already mentioned what I think of this.

"I think it gives the impression that she is just doing it to beef up her application for when she applies."

Looks like she is desperate to have volunteering experiences and seem less genuine. I am curious to know what others think of this. I mean seriously..how often do you meet a person that volunteers every single day and does 5 different types of volunteer work???

 

[Glazedonutlove]

she'll be fine and that's not a strange schedule. Many people volunteer and teach and do sports among other things. calm down

 

[Lost in Translation]

what are you expecting the consequences of too much volunteering to be?

A better application than OP's.

 

[DokterMom]

Did she do any of these activities before switching to premed?

 

[Planes2Doc]

If you start volunteering within a year of filling out your primary application and work nearly full-time hours, then it will look bad...

I think you're on the right track though. Lots of volunteering may make it look like you're only doing it to pad the application, but no one is going to cross that line and admit it. My biggest issue is with "ZERO to Mother Teresa" applicants that go from never having volunteered to suddenly having a laundry-list of activities with tons of hours that suddenly start as a pre-med. That's why people need to strategically plan their ECs, and I don't think any ADCOM will question it. Look, ADCOMs aren't stupid. I bet they realize a good number of pre-meds are only doing it for the sake of getting into medical school, but no one is going to admit it.

Also as it was mentioned earlier, some people get too carried away with ECs and they end up destroying the applicant's stats. Once that happens, the damage is done. Good ECs make a good student look better, but unfortunately good ECs won't make a bad student look better. So plan accordingly to your advantage.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I think this could only look bad if you sign up for 4 activities in the May before you submit your app and have like 10 hours at all of them. If each activity had a good amount of hours and you could meaningfully describe each of them (and maintain good grades throughout) this is a good thing, not a bad one.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I made a philosophical thread about this a few years back, you might find it interesting...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/more-volunteering-less-desirable-applicant.973297/

 

[clippers50fan]

If you start volunteering within a year of filling out your primary application and work nearly full-time hours, then it will look bad...

I think you're on the right track though. Lots of volunteering may make it look like you're only doing it to pad the application, but no one is going to cross that line and admit it. My biggest issue is with "ZERO to Mother Teresa" applicants that go from never having volunteered to suddenly having a laundry-list of activities with tons of hours that suddenly start as a pre-med. That's why people need to strategically plan their ECs, and I don't think any ADCOM will question it. Look, ADCOMs aren't stupid. I bet they realize a good number of pre-meds are only doing it for the sake of getting into medical school, but no one is going to admit it.

Also as it was mentioned earlier, some people get too carried away with ECs and they end up destroying the applicant's stats. Once that happens, the damage is done. Good ECs make a good student look better, but unfortunately good ECs won't make a bad student look better. So plan accordingly to your advantage.

I think you're overthinking it. A year within your primary is a LONG time and if you did something for 9+ months in advance of your primary, that shows commitment right then and there. Adcom's know what our primary goal is, they're not stupid. Do they honestly believe every premed would do everything we do out of the joy we garner from it? Of course not. That doesn't diminish what we do at all.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I think you're overthinking it. A year within your primary is a LONG time and if you did something for 9+ months in advance of your primary, that shows commitment right then and there. Adcom's know what our primary goal is, they're not stupid. Do they honestly believe every premed would do everything we do out of the joy we garner from it? Of course not. That doesn't diminish what we do at all.

It's been said before that volunteering shouldn't be started close to applying. It will make them look like the dreaded "box-checkers," and there was ADCOM agreement regarding this. Of course they aren't stupid, but they still want to see the long "commitment" for what it's worth. It doesn't show altruism, it just shows that some people planned better than others.

 

[clippers50fan]

It's been said before that volunteering shouldn't be started close to applying. It will make them look like the dreaded "box-checkers," and there was ADCOM agreement regarding this. Of course they aren't stupid, but they still want to see the long "commitment" for what it's worth. It doesn't show altruism, it just shows that some people planned better than others.

Yeah but if you had to choose someone who started a year earlier and one who never started, the choice is obvious. What I'm saying is for the students who the time has already passed not to overthink it. It's like students who have under a 3.5. Telling them their GPA is bad doesn't help them improve their application. For those who lack EC hours, starting them is better than nothing.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Yeah but if you had to choose someone who started a year earlier and one who never started, the choice is obvious. What I'm saying is for the students who the time has already passed not to overthink it. It's like students who have under a 3.5. Telling them their GPA is bad doesn't help them improve their application. For those who lack EC hours, starting them is better than nothing.

It's better than nothing, but even with good stats they might end up having to do a gap year just to build ECs. It's kind of ridiculous... One year someone wasn't altruistic enough to admit. They volunteer for a year after graduating college, and then suddenly they completely change and are altruistic enough to be admitted? But yeah, I see where you're coming from. But unless you decide on pre-med late, then you're required to start jumping through the hoops early. It sucks but it is what it is.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

It's better than nothing, but even with good stats they might end up having to do a gap year just to build ECs. It's kind of ridiculous... One year someone wasn't altruistic enough to admit. They volunteer for a year after graduating college, and then suddenly they completely change and are altruistic enough to be admitted? But yeah, I see where you're coming from. But unless you decide on pre-med late, then you're required to start jumping through the hoops early. It sucks but it is what it is.

Ops friend did change to premed later

 

[clippers50fan]

It's better than nothing, but even with good stats they might end up having to do a gap year just to build ECs. It's kind of ridiculous... One year someone wasn't altruistic enough to admit. They volunteer for a year after graduating college, and then suddenly they completely change and are altruistic enough to be admitted? But yeah, I see where you're coming from. But unless you decide on pre-med late, then you're required to start jumping through the hoops early. It sucks but it is what it is.

I agree with you, I see what you're saying. But for those who do have ECs, especially ones that END in college and we do choose to take a gap year or two, we don't really have a choice but to start new ones haha

 

[Doug Underhill]

The bottom line is "only if GPA/MCAT suffers as a result".

 

[aztlannation]

A better application than OP's.

I've been discovered...

 

[deleted407021]

... "ZERO to Mother Teresa" ...

Poor example of a "good doer", but your point stands. If you set the criteria for such an individual as you do, then that includes most all premeds. We're also discouraged from putting HS volunteering activities on our apps.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Ops friend did change to premed later

Ouch. That's the most painful one of all. Either start at the beginning of college, or do a post-bacc later. The people who start junior year and are able to squeeze in the pre-reqs often get screwed on the ECs. They are often forced to waste a year and do a gap year solely to get more EC hours. It's a shame considering the person has everything needed to get into medical school otherwise, and it's a year of lost income and getting older.

I agree with you, I see what you're saying. But for those who do have ECs, especially ones that END in college and we do choose to take a gap year or two, we don't really have a choice but to start new ones haha

Yep it's the way it is with the timing and all!

Poor example of a "good doer", but your point stands. If you set the criteria for such an individual as you do, then that includes most all premeds. We're also discouraged from putting HS volunteering activities on our apps.

Pre-meds can actually put high school (and earlier) volunteering if they continue them into college, or if it was something extensive. But this pretty much gives a clean slate to everyone starting college, hence ADCOMs can't actually distinguish between genuinely altrustic people and "ZERO to Mother Teresa" applicants. Volunteering in high school wasn't huge when I was a youngin', but from what I've seen on College Confidential, it's becoming more common now for getting into tougher colleges.
Before I suggested that high school and earlier activities be included, but all that would mean is students starting to "play the game" earlier. Helicopter parents who want their child to be a doctor will get them to volunteer early on. And in this case, the ones who have wealthy parents who can afford to take them everywhere will be better off. It's not a good situation, and with a sudden onset of volunteer activities for nearly everyone at the beginning of college, it's impossible to gauge who is actually genuine or not.

 

[Firegrove]

If they're sacrificing their grades and/or sanity for volunteering they should obviously reduce their time.

 

[NeuResurgens]

There are a couple things to consider here.

In an interview, could she explain why she genuinely had interest in/enjoyed doing all these activities?
Is she able to maintain decent academic criteria (grades, MCAT) while doing all of this?

If the answer is yes to both, then she is fine. If either answer is no, maybe she should do some re-evaluation.

 

[Planes2Doc]

And if you think about it, literally a minute of volunteering that you didn't want to do is too much. The entire purpose and principle of volunteering is based on people doing it because they genuinely want to. If people are doing it because they are forced to (or for the sake of medical school admissions), then they aren't volunteering, and you have yet another thing whose meaning was destroyed by pre-med arms race. 🙁

 

[Tenk]

Funny that you wrote leaving business for medicine when medicine is business.

 

[Donald Juan]

Ouch. That's the most painful one of all. Either start at the beginning of college, or do a post-bacc later. The people who start junior year and are able to squeeze in the pre-reqs often get screwed on the ECs. They are often forced to waste a year and do a gap year solely to get more EC hours. It's a shame considering the person has everything needed to get into medical school otherwise, and it's a year of lost income and getting older.

I would be very curious to know how you came to the bolded conclusion that this occurs "often." Someone with good grades, a couple of hobbies, and one year of shadowing/clinical volunteering you think will "often" need to do a gap year just to get ECs? I would think some might take longer to get prereqs done because of chemistry sequences taking a long time, and maybe putting off the MCAT for this reason. I don't see these individuals being "forced" to get more time volunteering assuming they can finish the mcat/prereqs on time. You've been criticizing looking like a "box-checker" this whole thread, then you claim people need another year to check the boxes?

 

[Planes2Doc]

Funny that you wrote leaving business for medicine when medicine is business.

True. But I left the "business world" to go into medicine. The big difference here is there is more job security in medicine, and even if you end up doing family medicine, you'll still make six figures. As for the "business world," no one is guaranteed good jobs, and a lot of graduates from first-tier colleges start at around $50k. They might not even hit six figures by the time they retire. The overly idealistic pre-meds are the ones who place physicians on a high pedestal above the rest of society. Honestly, a lot of them have no idea what the hell is going on.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I would be very curious to know how you came to the bolded conclusion that this occurs "often." Someone with good grades, a couple of hobbies, and one year of shadowing/clinical volunteering you think will "often" need to do a gap year just to get ECs? I would think some might take longer to get prereqs done because of chemistry sequences taking a long time, and maybe putting off the MCAT for this reason. I don't see these individuals being "forced" to get more time volunteering assuming they can finish the mcat/prereqs on time. You've been criticizing looking like a "box-checker" this whole thread, then you claim people need another year to check the boxes?

There's no way around box-checking. Everyone is a box-checker in some way or another, unless it's one of the RARE few that were actually doing this stuff before being pre-med, and enjoyed it. I've been out of undergrad for a while, so timing of undergrad is very off for me. Also with the new MCAT, I don't know what additional courses students need to take. But I'm talking about someone starting pre-med during junior year and managing to squeeze the pre-reqs and MCAT in there. It seems like ECs might be limited. But then again, I can be way off. But I know that not everyone realizes they want to be a pre-med at the beginning of college or as a post-bacc after graduation. What about those people in the middle?

 

[aztlannation]

Funny that you wrote leaving business for medicine when medicine is business.

I'm sure you know what I meant.

 

[docE15]

There's no way around box-checking. Everyone is a box-checker in some way or another, unless it's one of the RARE few that were actually doing this stuff before being pre-med, and enjoyed it. I've been out of undergrad for a while, so timing of undergrad is very off for me. Also with the new MCAT, I don't know what additional courses students need to take. But I'm talking about someone starting pre-med during junior year and managing to squeeze the pre-reqs and MCAT in there. It seems like ECs might be limited. But then again, I can be way off. But I know that not everyone realizes they want to be a pre-med at the beginning of college or as a post-bacc after graduation. What about those people in the middle?

I'm kind of one of "those" people. Finished my degree in three years, switched to pre-med, withdrew my graduation intent, and signed up to finish my chem sequence for the fourth year. I never had research, VERY minimal volunteering, and no shadowing. So I do have to take a gap year for the chem sequence in order to take the MCAT, but also for the EC's. I was working full-time during my three years of undergrad, so I do have to box-check now for volunteering and research. Sorry to piggyback on the thread, but I am not sure how adcom's will perceive my squeezing of 2 research gigs, a leadership position, 3 weekly volunteering gigs and an internship. However, if someone like me is able to maintain good grades and (hopefully) a good MCAT, I'm assuming it shouldn't be an issue?

 

[clippers50fan]

I'm kind of one of "those" people. Finished my degree in three years, switched to pre-med, withdrew my graduation intent, and signed up to finish my chem sequence for the fourth year. I never had research, VERY minimal volunteering, and no shadowing. So I do have to take a gap year for the chem sequence in order to take the MCAT, but also for the EC's. I was working full-time during my three years of undergrad, so I do have to box-check now for volunteering and research. Sorry to piggyback on the thread, but I am not sure how adcom's will perceive my squeezing of 2 research gigs, a leadership position, 3 weekly volunteering gigs and an internship. However, if someone like me is able to maintain good grades and (hopefully) a good MCAT, I'm assuming it shouldn't be an issue?

You'll be good. You did exactly as someone who switched was supposed to do.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I'm kind of one of "those" people. Finished my degree in three years, switched to pre-med, withdrew my graduation intent, and signed up to finish my chem sequence for the fourth year. I never had research, VERY minimal volunteering, and no shadowing. So I do have to take a gap year for the chem sequence in order to take the MCAT, but also for the EC's. I was working full-time during my three years of undergrad, so I do have to box-check now for volunteering and research. Sorry to piggyback on the thread, but I am not sure how adcom's will perceive my squeezing of 2 research gigs, a leadership position, 3 weekly volunteering gigs and an internship. However, if someone like me is able to maintain good grades and (hopefully) a good MCAT, I'm assuming it shouldn't be an issue?

As @clippers50fan said, you did what you were supposed to do. Hopefully ADCOMs will let you in, but otherwise you might need a gap year to waste a year of your life racking up more EC hours. Good luck though and keep up the good work!

 

[Spinach Dip]

Ouch. That's the most painful one of all. Either start at the beginning of college, or do a post-bacc later. The people who start junior year and are able to squeeze in the pre-reqs often get screwed on the ECs. They are often forced to waste a year and do a gap year solely to get more EC hours. It's a shame considering the person has everything needed to get into medical school otherwise, and it's a year of lost income and getting older.



Yep it's the way it is with the timing and all!



Pre-meds can actually put high school (and earlier) volunteering if they continue them into college, or if it was something extensive. But this pretty much gives a clean slate to everyone starting college, hence ADCOMs can't actually distinguish between genuinely altrustic people and "ZERO to Mother Teresa" applicants. Volunteering in high school wasn't huge when I was a youngin', but from what I've seen on College Confidential, it's becoming more common now for getting into tougher colleges.
Before I suggested that high school and earlier activities be included, but all that would mean is students starting to "play the game" earlier. Helicopter parents who want their child to be a doctor will get them to volunteer early on. And in this case, the ones who have wealthy parents who can afford to take them everywhere will be better off. It's not a good situation, and with a sudden onset of volunteer activities for nearly everyone at the beginning of college, it's impossible to gauge who is actually genuine or not.

Have you read "Excellent Sheep"?

It's a book about Ivy League admissions and how high school applicants (and their parents) focus on projecting the illusion of success--to the detriment of actually being successful at anything.

I think you'd like it.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Have you read "Excellent Sheep"?

It's a book about Ivy League admissions and how high school applicants (and their parents) focus on the projecting the illusion of success--to the detriment of actually being successful at anything.

I think you'd like it.

I'll have to check that out! Thanks! 😀