Is this it?

[sxr201]

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Hello everyone,
This is really hard for me to write. When I first went to medical school I wasn’t really sure I wanted to do this. My parents wanted me to be this big doctor and maybe I believed their dream. I couldn’t get into a US medical school so they told me don’t worry about it and I went to the Caribbean. Through hurricanes and moving every 6 months, I was kicked around a lot. I became depressed and I wasn’t sure this was for me. I failed step 1 twice. I hated myself but I was so in debt I had to keep going.
I finally finished my medical school and then I failed step 2. I applied for residency and didn’t get in. I begged, I asked my parents friends and even did research with DEVIL. Not only did I not get a paper, but he never wrote me a recommendation letter. No one could help me. This is my third time applying now and I still have no interviews. I went back to the hospitals I did rotations at, and all I get is a door slammed in my face.
I was valedictorian in high school. I had great grades in undergrad. But now all I am is a foreign graduate who failed both step 1 and 2. I feel like giving up. Sometimes I don’t even know what I am doing in medicine. I hoped that by this point in my life I would be married, have kids and a steady job. Sometimes I lie awake wondering why I am now over 30 and still can’t get into residency and get my life started. I feel stuck.
The reason I am writing this down is that I need your advice. Do I keep applying every year until my parents run out of money? Over 10 years of my life have been spent doing this and I don’t know what else I could do. What kind of job can an MD get without a residency? Will I ever be able to make a life for myself?
Please give me any advice or ask my questions. Thank you for reading.

 

[DoctwoB]

Hello everyone,
This is really hard for me to write. When I first went to medical school I wasn’t really sure I wanted to do this. My parents wanted me to be this big doctor and maybe I believed their dream. I couldn’t get into a US medical school so they told me don’t worry about it and I went to the Caribbean. Through hurricanes and moving every 6 months, I was kicked around a lot. I became depressed and I wasn’t sure this was for me. I failed step 1 twice. I hated myself but I was so in debt I had to keep going.
I finally finished my medical school and then I failed step 2. I applied for residency and didn’t get in. I begged, I asked my parents friends and even did research with DEVIL. Not only did I not get a paper, but he never wrote me a recommendation letter. No one could help me. This is my third time applying now and I still have no interviews. I went back to the hospitals I did rotations at, and all I get is a door slammed in my face.
I was valedictorian in high school. I had great grades in undergrad. But now all I am is a foreign graduate who failed both step 1 and 2. I feel like giving up. Sometimes I don’t even know what I am doing in medicine. I hoped that by this point in my life I would be married, have kids and a steady job. Sometimes I lie awake wondering why I am now over 30 and still can’t get into residency and get my life started. I feel stuck.
The reason I am writing this down is that I need your advice. Do I keep applying every year until my parents run out of money? Over 10 years of my life have been spent doing this and I don’t know what else I could do. What kind of job can an MD get without a residency? Will I ever be able to make a life for myself?
Please give me any advice or ask my questions. Thank you for reading.

Thats a rough story, I'm sorry to hear that.

Unfortunately, there is no real road to practice with just an MD. You can try to use the MD as a marketable asset in applying for some things like consulting or Biotech jobs, but I doubt it will be that much of a help. I think that the key will be to keep plugging along, and most importantly to improve your app somehow, mabye through research at a different lab. Apply to all the FM programs that went unfilled in previous years. As a IMG you can try to work out pre-match deals with hospitals. Apply to transitional years in the hope that you can get a categorical PGY-2 position. Maybe even apply to residencies in other countries (not sure which ones accept carribean MDs, so do some research). not sure if you've done any of these already, but give it a try and good luck!

 

[ACSurgeon]

Thats a rough story, I'm sorry to hear that.

Unfortunately, there is no real road to practice with just an MD. You can try to use the MD as a marketable asset in applying for some things like consulting or Biotech jobs, but I doubt it will be that much of a help. I think that the key will be to keep plugging along, and most importantly to improve your app somehow, mabye through research at a different lab. Apply to all the FM programs that went unfilled in previous years. As a IMG you can try to work out pre-match deals with hospitals. Apply to transitional years in the hope that you can get a categorical PGY-2 position. Maybe even apply to residencies in other countries (not sure which ones accept carribean MDs, so do some research). not sure if you've done any of these already, but give it a try and good luck!

I'm curious to know how you all know all this as an M1?

Transitional years and prelim medicine years are actually fairly competitive, as the derm/radiology/anesthesia/etc folks are applying to those 1 year positions. Prelim surgery positions might be easier to come by, but might still be tough.

To the OP, trying to use your MD to do research/teach/do consultation work might be your best option at this point. Maybe getting a masters degree in something (MBA, MPH) will make you marketable. It won't be easy given the lack of clinical experience, but the longer you are out of clinical practice, the harder it is to land a residency. If you are determined to keep applying, try to do an observership that includes research. This will count as some clinical experience (maybe), and could result in a letter of recommendation.

 

[Rollo]

Search for a user on this forum called Joseph Kim MD. He specializes in physicians seeking non-clinical opportunities.

 

[cpants]

A surgery prelim might be your best bet. Many of these go unfilled every year, and at least it will give you a chance to bust your ass, prove your worth, pass step 3, maybe get some recommendations. Then reapply with those things boosting your application.

 

[PteFabulous]

What kind of programs have you been applying to?

 

[naus]

Screw medicine. Become a nurse practitioner and make $100k after 3 years of school, about the same time as your residency anyway.

That's what I'd do if I were you. Don't be Don Quixote. Your Caribbean degree isn't much better off than an NP anyway, certainly not with multiple USMLE failures.

If you had good undergrad grades, why the hell did you go to the Caribbean?

 

[DrDrToBe]

Screw medicine. Become a nurse practitioner and make $100k after 3 years of school, about the same time as your residency anyway.

That's what I'd do if I were you. Don't be Don Quixote. Your Caribbean degree isn't much better off than an NP anyway, certainly not with multiple USMLE failures.

If you had good undergrad grades, why the hell did you go to the Caribbean?

Aren't you Mr./Mrs. Peaches and cream... many students have good undergrad grades and still don't get into US med schools for one reason or another.

 

[naus]

Aren't you Mr./Mrs. Peaches and cream... many students have good undergrad grades and still don't get into US med schools for one reason or another.

I didn't know you couldn't retake the MCAT, get some activities and reapply.

Sure would have been better than taking $250k in debt, studying in a third world country and trying to apply for residency for 3 years straight.

For most people at the Caribbean, the biggest hurdle was their hopeless undergrad GPA. If you got good undergrad grades, you should exhaust all other options first, before going Caribbean. This is solid advice. Don't diss it.

 

[BigRedder]

I didn't know you couldn't retake the MCAT, get some activities and reapply.

Sure would have been better than taking $250k in debt, studying in a third world country and trying to apply for residency for 3 years straight.

For most people at the Caribbean, the biggest hurdle was their hopeless undergrad GPA. If you got good undergrad grades, you should exhaust all other options first, before going Caribbean. This is solid advice. Don't diss it.

 

[MegaProjectile]

Options:
1)Apply FM/IM/Psych: Target undesirable areas (Think rural).Get your foot in the door and start your life and start making some little money. Many open slots in these areas are filled by FMGs/IMGs each year as per NRMP.

2) Apply surgery prelim: They will work you like a dog and spit you out but that's not the point. This will help you get letters from your superiors and connections. Great letters won't erase your academic performance(so no, you can't match ortho with it) but it might increase your geographical choice for option 1.

Did you ever pass Step 2 the second time??

 

[ColorGreen]

I am sorry it all came to this. It is difficult, but not hopelss. Do you still want to do medicine? (or you feel like you have to go on, because of the money spent, your age, your parents...etc...let's say circumstances)? Do you know what would you like to do with your life ideally, I mean in terms of profession? Have you ever talk to a psychologist? Tell more about your parents: do they want you do be happy in general and see medicine as guaranteed road to happiness? If you tell them, you quit, what would do you think they would do? What do they say about your difficulties?

 

[WellWornLad]

Why don't you back up and ask yourself if you really want to be a doctor. Screw your parents. You're almost 30, cut the cord and think about what you want for a minute. Good undergrad grades + bad med school performance usually equates to someone who isn't really motivated to be there in the first place.

 

[OveractiveBrain]

Why don't you back up and ask yourself if you really want to be a doctor. Screw your parents. You're almost 30, cut the cord and think about what you want for a minute. Good undergrad grades + bad med school performance usually equates to someone who isn't really motivated to be there in the first place.

He's 30, 250K in debt, and in possession of a degree that is worth nothing without a residency. Too late to back out now. There are two options:

(1) Shift your life goals. Be a doctor and save some people. Practicing in Africa, India, or some other 3rd world country will give you huge emotional reward, while the monetary benefit may not be significant

(2) Use the advice so far, use the spots that go unfilled year after year. Sure you will end up working for horse ranchers in wyoming or degenerates in southeast louisiana, but at least you'll be practicing.

Unfilled Spots vs Doctors without borders

 

[coffeebythelake]

Unfilled Spots vs Doctors without borders

I'm pretty sure you need to be a licensed and trained physician to work with Doctors without Borders. Just because it is volunteer work doesn't mean anyone can do it.

 

[cpants]

I'm pretty sure you need to be a licensed and trained physician to work with Doctors without Borders. Just because it is volunteer work doesn't mean anyone can do it.

Actually, almost no one can do it. It is extremely competitive.

OP, you need to get into a residency, period. You have forced your hand by taking on this much debt. If you choose another career now, you will be digging yourself out of a hole for the rest of your life.

You need to take whatever steps necessary to get into a residency. My suggestion would be to seek out program directors in the crappiest locals, the places that go unfilled every single year. Ask them if they would consider you, and if not what you could do to be considered. Research will probably not help you, because the residencies which would consider you are community programs and probably won't care about that stuff. You need to get a clinical position somewhere. An unfilled surgery prelim might be a decent option. Then you need to absolutely kill yourself during that year. You need stellar recommendations. You need people to make phone calls on your behalf. You need to pass step 3 with flying colors on the first try. Working abroad for a few years might not be the worst option either. At least you will have more clinical experience under your belt.

I wish you good luck. Yes you are in a really bad position. But look at the bright side. You have finished medical school. You have passed step 1 and step 2. All you need to do is find a program who will take a chance on you. There are thousands of spots that go unfilled. There is a PD out there who will take a chance on an American FMG, fluent in English, willing to work hard. Find that guy. Your life depends on it.

 

[WellWornLad]

I don't buy the argument that debt = locked in to medicine.

If they're federal loans, you can go on an income-based repayment plan: you pay 10% of whatever you're making, max. After 20 years, any residual loans are discharged.

If they're private loans, talk to a lawyer and see if you can't get them discharged in bankrupcy. Yes, I know student loans are almost impossible to discharge, but MD without residency is actually one of those situations where it might be possible if you have a good lawyer.

It's ridiculous to suggest he should just bite the bullet and slave away as a doctor for the rest of his life just to make something on the lower end of the physician payscale - probably just enough to cover his loans and keep a roof over his head. That's a good option if you're interested in being a doctor, and akin to suicide if you were never really that interested in it.

 

[BigRedder]

Consulting.

 

[cpants]

I don't buy the argument that debt = locked in to medicine.

If they're federal loans, you can go on an income-based repayment plan: you pay 10% of whatever you're making, max. After 20 years, any residual loans are discharged.

If they're private loans, talk to a lawyer and see if you can't get them discharged in bankrupcy. Yes, I know student loans are almost impossible to discharge, but MD without residency is actually one of those situations where it might be possible if you have a good lawyer.

It's ridiculous to suggest he should just bite the bullet and slave away as a doctor for the rest of his life just to make something on the lower end of the physician payscale - probably just enough to cover his loans and keep a roof over his head. That's a good option if you're interested in being a doctor, and akin to suicide if you were never really that interested in it.

Obviously if there is a way to lose the loans that changes everything. From my understanding that is extremely difficult to do however...as it should be. Just because you changed your mind, doesn't mean you shouldn't have to pay your bills.

If he can find a way to afford his loan payments and get a job he likes better, than more power to him. The alternative to medicine is not very appealing however. He will be starting in a low-paying entry level job at the age of 30. Anything decent will likely need more training or a large startup investment, aka more time and debt (if he can even get more money). Also, the job market right now is not exactly stellar. In other words, his choice is probably not between the job of his dreams and medicine. It is likely between a pretty lousy job struggling to make ends meet and medicine.

 

[Meerkatology]

Obviously if there is a way to lose the loans that changes everything. From my understanding that is extremely difficult to do however...as it should be. Just because you changed your mind, doesn't mean you shouldn't have to pay your bills.

If he can find a way to afford his loan payments and get a job he likes better, than more power to him. The alternative to medicine is not very appealing however. He will be starting in a low-paying entry level job at the age of 30. Anything decent will likely need more training or a large startup investment, aka more time and debt (if he can even get more money). Also, the job market right now is not exactly stellar. In other words, his choice is probably not between the job of his dreams and medicine. It is likely between a pretty lousy job struggling to make ends meet and medicine.

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