is this **** true?

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pgoyal

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http://www.medschoolhell.com/2006/10/26/medical-school-in-a-nutshell/

"Honestly, medicine is just treating patients by cookbook. Once you’ve been doing it long enough, you memorize all of that bull**** and can start doing things without looking it up. At this point, you are known as a “good doctor.” Some mature faster than others.

Sure, you need to be smart to be able to memorize all of that crap in the first place but even those with average IQs can do it with enough repetition. In short, medicine is nothing stellar. It sure isn’t rocket science. Space or computer engineers actually have to apply their knowledge to solve a problem. In medicine, those types of illnesses are few and far between."

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Sometimes it might be. But being a doctor is something that needs good Application. Not all of us can the damn Albert Lasker, But everyone can have GOOD clinical skills. If you are worried that you aren't curing aids, try your hand in PhD or MD/PhD. Still, being an MD, IMO is something far greater and complex than being a rocket scientist or Physicist. While you could be working on the Hardron Collider or finding new cancer cures, you could also be the addiction psychiatrist helping people get out of their rut, or the pediatrician who takes care of terminal and healthy kids. Or you could be an Internist and have your own life journey.
Think about it..........................

Just my stupid opinion.
 
yeah its true, clinical practice is all about being able to apply the right algorithm to the patient. Problem solving is very scarce in modern medicine with the advent of thousands of investigations for everything removing the need to critically think.

The hard part is interacting with people properly.
 
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http://www.medschoolhell.com/2006/10/26/medical-school-in-a-nutshell/

"Honestly, medicine is just treating patients by cookbook. Once you've been doing it long enough, you memorize all of that bull**** and can start doing things without looking it up. At this point, you are known as a "good doctor." Some mature faster than others.

Sure, you need to be smart to be able to memorize all of that crap in the first place but even those with average IQs can do it with enough repetition. In short, medicine is nothing stellar. It sure isn't rocket science. Space or computer engineers actually have to apply their knowledge to solve a problem. In medicine, those types of illnesses are few and far between."

Good physicians can apply the correct decision tree to the patients. If you graduate residency and learned from it, you'll probably be able to do this. Excellent physicians can find the zebra case that the algorithm couldn't figure out. Expert clinicians will never be replaced by cookbook recipes for medicine. There's something special about watching an expert clinician work with their patients.
 
http://www.medschoolhell.com/2006/10/26/medical-school-in-a-nutshell/

"Honestly, medicine is just treating patients by cookbook. Once you’ve been doing it long enough, you memorize all of that bull**** and can start doing things without looking it up. At this point, you are known as a “good doctor.” Some mature faster than others.

Sure, you need to be smart to be able to memorize all of that crap in the first place but even those with average IQs can do it with enough repetition. In short, medicine is nothing stellar. It sure isn’t rocket science. Space or computer engineers actually have to apply their knowledge to solve a problem. In medicine, those types of illnesses are few and far between."

You'll find plenty of negatives about the profession (just like any other profession) and this guy most likely suffers from a psychosocial disorder. I read his blog for the first time quite a few years ago and stopped after he was surprised, as well as pissed off, that he had to work with a patient who had an infectious disease and who obviously was coming from a lower socioeconomic status.

I'm not exactly sure what he thought medicine was or was going to be, but he is very unhappy and these are the type of people that tend to be the most vocal about things.
 
Reading through the rest of this article makes me LOL that you picked out one portion of it and ask if that's how it really is.

The guy is living in the land of hyperbole apparently, either due to some delusion or because it gets him hits on his website (likely the latter).

MDs who only learn how to do the cookbook stuff are going to miss the rare diagnosis that has no cookbook, and get their pants sued off. Good luck.
 
yeah its true, clinical practice is all about being able to apply the right algorithm to the patient. Problem solving is very scarce in modern medicine with the advent of thousands of investigations for everything removing the need to critically think.

The hard part is interacting with people properly.

I find probably a dozen examples per day of lack of critical thinking on the part of other physicians leading to mismanagement (generally minor). Medicine has not been distilled down to applying algorithms to patients. Algorithms are great. They are great for floor teams, nurses, NPs, PAs etc. They are good for medical students and residents to learn basic management from. But, if you can't critically think about the application of algorithms, you are going to get hosed.

For example. I am on a large, very busy pediatric trauma/pediatric surgery service right now. We see maybe 7-10 cases of appendicitis a week. We have a very good algorithm for acute vs. perforated. It goes through what needs to be done at every step and what the discharge criteria are. I would say of all the appy cases we get, we follow the algorithm to a T maybe 60-70% of the time. The rest have minor deviations because of the patient's comorbidities, social issues, abnormal progression etc. And that is just for appendicitis...
 
I find probably a dozen examples per day of lack of critical thinking on the part of other physicians leading to mismanagement (generally minor). Medicine has not been distilled down to applying algorithms to patients. Algorithms are great. They are great for floor teams, nurses, NPs, PAs etc. They are good for medical students and residents to learn basic management from. But, if you can't critically think about the application of algorithms, you are going to get hosed.

For example. I am on a large, very busy pediatric trauma/pediatric surgery service right now. We see maybe 7-10 cases of appendicitis a week. We have a very good algorithm for acute vs. perforated. It goes through what needs to be done at every step and what the discharge criteria are. I would say of all the appy cases we get, we follow the algorithm to a T maybe 60-70% of the time. The rest have minor deviations because of the patient's comorbidities, social issues, abnormal progression etc. And that is just for appendicitis...

You are a stereotypical surgeon, aren't you? lol
 
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on a side note still waiting for a response to my pm...haha thnx.

I find probably a dozen examples per day of lack of critical thinking on the part of other physicians leading to mismanagement (generally minor). Medicine has not been distilled down to applying algorithms to patients. Algorithms are great. They are great for floor teams, nurses, NPs, PAs etc. They are good for medical students and residents to learn basic management from. But, if you can't critically think about the application of algorithms, you are going to get hosed.

For example. I am on a large, very busy pediatric trauma/pediatric surgery service right now. We see maybe 7-10 cases of appendicitis a week. We have a very good algorithm for acute vs. perforated. It goes through what needs to be done at every step and what the discharge criteria are. I would say of all the appy cases we get, we follow the algorithm to a T maybe 60-70% of the time. The rest have minor deviations because of the patient's comorbidities, social issues, abnormal progression etc. And that is just for appendicitis...
 
http://www.medschoolhell.com/2006/10/26/medical-school-in-a-nutshell/

"Honestly, medicine is just treating patients by cookbook. Once you've been doing it long enough, you memorize all of that bull**** and can start doing things without looking it up. At this point, you are known as a "good doctor." Some mature faster than others.

Sure, you need to be smart to be able to memorize all of that crap in the first place but even those with average IQs can do it with enough repetition. In short, medicine is nothing stellar. It sure isn't rocket science. Space or computer engineers actually have to apply their knowledge to solve a problem. In medicine, those types of illnesses are few and far between."

lol at people who don't even practice medicine yet really chime in on whats cookbook or not. It really depends on what setting you practice in and what your goals are.

If you are simply trying to treat the symptom, sure its cookbook. If you want to treat the disease and do it in the most efficient way possible, its not cookbook at all and you need to think.

You have to understand the underlying problem and that requires thought. Sometimes if you treat the symptom, you will make the patient worse because you havent properly diagnosed them a condition. Furthermore, you have to understand the complications of what you are doing, which requires you to think about the case. A good attending will make a resident foolish for treating thing cookbook style because they failed to think about the variety of complexities involved with the management that is missing from cookbook medicine.

Those who exclusively practice cookbook medicine are the ones who are ignorant of their own lack of knowledge, and often do end up hurting people. Its that they were to ignorant to see it. Now cookbook medicine IS helpful in particular situations, often emergent and it helps you streamline and do things beneficial, but very often its not like that. Medicine can simple or complex, it just depends how much knowledge you have of the situation.
 
Reading through the rest of this article makes me LOL that you picked out one portion of it and ask if that's how it really is.

The guy is living in the land of hyperbole apparently, either due to some delusion or because it gets him hits on his website (likely the latter).

MDs who only learn how to do the cookbook stuff are going to miss the rare diagnosis that has no cookbook, and get their pants sued off. Good luck.

Its not the rare diagnosis, its even in the common ones. There are subtelties and very often people will attribute a diagnosis without insufficient evidence, or fail to characterize the nature of the diagnosis.

The ironic thing is that we are supposed to be in an era of personalized medicine, but medical education as a whole moves on, its seems to progressing to the exact opposite as in all people with this condition get this dose of this medication etc, there is beginning to be a very little tailoring the regimen specific to the case which is concerning.
 
Sure, you need to be smart to be able to memorize all of that crap in the first place but even those with average IQs can do it with enough repetition. In short, medicine is nothing stellar. It sure isn’t rocket science. Space or computer engineers actually have to apply their knowledge to solve a problem. In medicine, those types of illnesses are few and far between."

Sure we have lots of great studies about which first-line antihypertensive to use in a patient with isolated primary hypertension and perfect compliance. Thats an algorithm, and you can memorize that.

Then you come across your average internal medicine patient, whose obese, diabetic, has borderline CHF, maybe some copd and is only occasionally compliant with medicines.
good luck finding the study that recommends the perfect regimen there.
 
I find very little of medicine mentally stimulating, so the process has been a real drag for me. I tend to agree with the article as it applies to most specialties.

One problem OP is you're not going to get a lot of truth from people that go down this road with regard to what it's actually like. They have a vested interest in making their work sound more complicated and interesting than it actually is. Some people are doing this volitionally, while many have simply deluded themselves.
 
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I find very little of medicine mentally stimulating, so the process has been a real drag for me. I tend to agree with the article as it applies to most specialties.

One problem OP is you're not going to get a lot of truth from people that go down this road with regard to what it's actually like. They have a vested interest in making their work sound more complicated and interesting than it actually is. Some people are doing this volitionally, while many have simply deluded themselves.

I like this response. But sometimes logical thought is unpopular, it's like criticizing religion.
 
I don't really know what you want those us to say. You seem to take the word of one person on the internet as the truth, then completely dismiss what others in a similar or better position to that person refute what he states. Are there algorithms in place for most things? Yes, because EBM dictates it. However, not checking for secondary issues rather than just the original disease process WILL get you in trouble when you forget to prescribe something besides bactrim for the lady in the clinic with the uncomplicated UTI..... and G6PD deficiency.
 
I don't really know what you want those us to say. You seem to take the word of one person on the internet as the truth, then completely dismiss what others in a similar or better position to that person refute what he states. Are there algorithms in place for most things? Yes, because EBM dictates it. However, not checking for secondary issues rather than just the original disease process WILL get you in trouble when you forget to prescribe something besides bactrim for the lady in the clinic with the uncomplicated UTI..... and G6PD deficiency.

Still sounds like an algorithm to me. Step 6: check for secondary causes.
 
I don't really know what you want those us to say. You seem to take the word of one person on the internet as the truth, then completely dismiss what others in a similar or better position to that person refute what he states. Are there algorithms in place for most things? Yes, because EBM dictates it. However, not checking for secondary issues rather than just the original disease process WILL get you in trouble when you forget to prescribe something besides bactrim for the lady in the clinic with the uncomplicated UTI..... and G6PD deficiency.

yo, not dismissing anyone's opinions. i actually have no opinion myself as i'm just a premed and thereby turned to these boards.

however, i thumbs-uped the previous poster b/c he's right in the fact that it takes a HUGE investment to actually realize what medicine is - as a career and something that is intellectually stimulating. i'm sure by the time im 7yrs invested i'll be slightly biased - just so i can maintain my sanity after going through crazy 24hr shifts...
 
I don't get all the kerfuffle about "algorithms".

Medicine is logic-based. We use our clinical knowledge and judgment to diagnose and then treat based on what worked previously. It's not "magic". It's algorithmic.

It's interesting because of the little wrinkles, the patients, the drama of the situations, the thrill of catching a zebra, the satisfaction of a good diagnosis or a decisive intervention, etc, but it's not interesting because it's some magic skill. I'm sorry if that's not enough to make it "mentally-stimulating" for you. Perhaps if the nurses wore short skirts?
 
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I don't get all the kerfuffle about "algorithms".

Medicine is logic-based. We use our clinical knowledge and judgment to diagnose and then treat based on what worked previously. It's not "magic". It's algorithmic.

It's interesting because of the little wrinkles, the patients, the drama of the situations, the thrill of catching a zebra, the satisfaction of a good catch or a decisive intervention, etc, but it's not interesting because it's some magic skill. I'm sorry if that's not enough to make it "mentally-stimulating" for you. Perhaps if the nurses wore short skirts?

Not all the nurses bro
 
Seeing ALL the nurses in short skirts would make most of the straight guys in medicine bat for the other team 😱

All of the nurses in short skirts >>>> any guy in a short skirt
 
Absolutely. Short skirts aint a good look on a guy 😛

Short shorts....*shudders*
 
Implying I'm not going to be Dr. House.

I like how there are guys circle jerking each other in the comments.
 
http://www.medschoolhell.com/2006/10/26/medical-school-in-a-nutshell/

"Honestly, medicine is just treating patients by cookbook. Once you’ve been doing it long enough, you memorize all of that bull**** and can start doing things without looking it up. At this point, you are known as a “good doctor.” Some mature faster than others.

Sure, you need to be smart to be able to memorize all of that crap in the first place but even those with average IQs can do it with enough repetition. In short, medicine is nothing stellar. It sure isn’t rocket science. Space or computer engineers actually have to apply their knowledge to solve a problem. In medicine, those types of illnesses are few and far between."

A plaintiff's attorney would savor a post like this. Imagine having it being presented to you at a deposition, or a trial.
 
I had a rant all prepared and then I remembered it didn't matter. I have loved med school, it is vastly more mentally demanding than my math/physics/engineering background, and I could not be happier with my choice.
 
I think there's some truth to the cookbook analogy in most of what you do. The memorable stuff falls way outside the playbook, however. There are plenty of situations, especially in acute/intensive care, for which the cookbook is deafeningly silent, and you're flying by the seat of your pants, drawing on your knowledge of physiology, pharmacology, and prior experience to try and deal with a situation so complicated and unique that you couldn't gather 10 similar cases over a lifetime to run a RCT, let alone publish some guidelines.

In those situations, you'll wonder why the ^&*% you couldn't just get a simple textbook case.
 
I had a rant all prepared and then I remembered it didn't matter. I have loved med school, it is vastly more mentally demanding than my math/physics/engineering background, and I could not be happier with my choice.

good looking out man, as an engineer myself I was quite demotivated from the numerous threads i had started. i was waiting for one person to simply say "i'm an engineer and i enjoyed med school"
 
The intellectual aspects of medicine lie in developing the clinical protocols.

This process is very active in the ICU which is the closest you get to laboratory bench research in clinical practice.

Collecting the data on how patients do with our established 'cookbooks' and modifying techniques and protocols accordingly is the way to use your brain in modern medicine.
 
As a second year, I have little first-hand experience with clinical medicine, but I will say this based upon what I have seen and based upon what faculty have described:

Medicine is like cooking from a cookbook, if you're preparing for a dinner party in which the guests have differing dietary requirements, you don't have immediate access to every imaginable ingredient, and the food needs to be done by the time the guests arrive.
 
As a second year, I have little first-hand experience with clinical medicine, but I will say this based upon what I have seen and based upon what faculty have described:

Medicine is like cooking from a cookbook, if you're preparing for a dinner party in which the guests have differing dietary requirements, you don't have immediate access to every imaginable ingredient, and the food needs to be done by the time the guests arrive.

There's only about 5 kinds of guests.

Guys, if you want a field where you really use your brain in a novel or creative fashion, medicine just simply doesn't provide that.
 
http://www.medschoolhell.com/2006/10/26/medical-school-in-a-nutshell/

"Honestly, medicine is just treating patients by cookbook. Once you've been doing it long enough, you memorize all of that bull**** and can start doing things without looking it up. At this point, you are known as a "good doctor." Some mature faster than others.

Sure, you need to be smart to be able to memorize all of that crap in the first place but even those with average IQs can do it with enough repetition. In short, medicine is nothing stellar. It sure isn't rocket science. Space or computer engineers actually have to apply their knowledge to solve a problem. In medicine, those types of illnesses are few and far between."

Being a mediocre doctor is cooking from a cookbook. Its why NPs can "do an MDs job" which few people realize means "can be a primary care physician," because, most of it is checking off boxes on screening and referring to someone else. So, at its BASEST form, Medicine is cooking from a cookbook.

But most of the actual practice of medicine has nothing to do with cooking at all. That's the whole point. Every patient in front of you is not a population statistic, they don't meet public health policies, they may not even obey clinical guidelines. They are themselves, a unique presentation of whatever disease you are dealing with.

Ok... a COPD exacerbation, CHF exacerbation, or cellulitis may be a hospitalist's bread and butter. These do become routine. A general surgeon may be performing their 5000th lap chole of the year. But that repetition just makes you good at your job. You need to do the simple things so you can focus your attention on the hard things.

Guys, if you want a field where you really use your brain in a novel or creative fashion, medicine just simply doesn't provide that.

We in medicine call that "surgery"

I don't get all the kerfuffle about "algorithms". --quote truncated

Me either. Shitty doctors think "im good at medicine, Ill follow the algorithm." Thats how I see patients with "CHF" who have been treated at 6 different hospitals, in whom I diagnose the pulmonary embolism (there was no CHF, by the way). That's why I have to change all those patients who have only hypertension who are on 2 Ace-inhibitors and an Arb (thanks VA NPs). If you think they are "few and far between" its because you aren't looking. The problem is that the USMLE step 1 and Step 2 test your basic knowledge, they test the algorithm. There is a "right answer" and it fits in the flow of a case. Students spend four years learning the basics, the cookbook if you will, the algorithm. Most students don't realize that its just a baseline! Guidelines change every 5 years. And "guidelines" are what you use AFTER you know what's going on. Real life is seldom the algorithm and is riddled with difficulties beyond just the medical workup. You have to know what you're thinking before you know which test to order. Then, when you already know what's going on, how do you handle the varations in patients chronic conditions? How do you handle their psycho-social environment? How do you lead the team?

Collecting the data on how patients do with our established 'cookbooks' and modifying techniques and protocols accordingly is the way to use your brain in modern medicine.

Only true if you want to be a researcher. There are plenty of opportunities to use your brain in other ways (last 3 lines of the last paragraph, above)

How many times are you going to highlight a diagram in the construction of a fuse box or controller as a mechanical engineer. On a 400 hour project, 350 of them are literally standing there, highlighting diagrams,until everything is highlighted. Its called "quality control." Apply your knowledge my ass. If you are the lead researcher of the super colider (we call them Deans or department heads) your equivelant is CEO, Program Director, or Chief of section. If you are the grunt who pushes the red button (called engineers... think Homer Simpson) your equivelant is...well... 3rd year medical student.

I cannot think of a more emotionally and socially rewarding field than medicine. Unfortunately, it doesn't pay very well. Good, but probably not worth the amount of time and sacrifice required to be successful in it. Which is why it is so fulfilling in other ways!
 
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