Is WashU really a top tier school?

[p9142]

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I just finished shadowing three physicians, and the inevitable question of which school do you really want to go to came up. I mentioned that I was looking at WashU, and all three doctors questioned why I would want to go to that school. Just for background, it should be noted that all three went to traditional top tier schools and they are a little older. They all expressed dismay as to why someone with my stats would want to go to WashU. I politely informed them that WashU has the highest MCAT average of any school in the country, and they all seemed shocked.

I guess ranking doesn't really matter, but I was wondering if anyone had a feel for why these docs would not think highly of WashU. I am still treating it as one of my top choices, but this situation made me question it.

 

[mcat_study]

ask MWillie🙄

 

[inrevertias]

WashU is definitely top tier (but not that I'd know from personal experience). However, it doesn't have the name recognition of I guess some other top tier schools. When I was shadowing I heard an attending wonder if WashU was really ranked so highly after its ranking came up during some presentation.

 

[spicedmanna]

I'm not sure what other criteria is used (you can look at the fine print of those ranking mags), but I understand that the average MCAT score is used. And as you stated, WashU has the highest average MCAT. Hmm...

 

[dr_zippo]

I just finished shadowing three physicians, and the inevitable question of which school do you really want to go to came up. I mentioned that I was looking at WashU, and all three doctors questioned why I would want to go to that school. Just for background, it should be noted that all three went to traditional top tier schools and they are a little older. They all expressed dismay as to why someone with my stats would want to go to WashU. I politely informed them that WashU has the highest MCAT average of any school in the country, and they all seemed shocked.

I guess ranking doesn't really matter, but I was wondering if anyone had a feel for why these docs would not think highly of WashU. I am still treating it as one of my top choices, but this situation made me question it.

WUSTL is top tier if you go by US News, but many think that ranking system is bogus. I also had a similar conversation with one of the docs I shadowed, and he was a little down on WUSTL as well. He mentioned that they have a reputation for going after non-well rounded students who simply have high MCAT scores. Maybe they rejected him or something, who knows. It is in a location that is close to home for me, plus I do think it is a good school, although probably not a top tier school by traditional standards. Plus I got one of those letters in the mail congratulating me on my "strong showing on the April MCAT." Appealing to a woman's vanity works every time. 😉

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

I guess ranking doesn't really matter, but I was wondering if anyone had a feel for why these docs would not think highly of WashU. I am still treating it as one of my top choices, but this situation made me question it.

Wash U is a top tier school by any standards. There's really no debate here.

But, you can't think highly of a school that you've hardly ever heard of...and these docs obviously aren't part of the academic medical world. Don't let other people's opinions change your view of a school. If you like the school, you like it. Period. It's kind of like ice cream, would you stop eating cookie dough because some doctors only eat vanilla...hells no.

 

[spicedmanna]

Wash U is a top tier school by any standards. There's really no debate here.

But, you can't think highly of a school that you've hardly ever heard of...and these docs obviously aren't part of the academic medical world. Don't let other people's opinions change your view of a school. If you like the school, you like it. Period. It's kind of like ice cream, would you stop eating cookie dough because some doctors only eat vanilla...hells no.

👍 well said.

 

[DrBowtie]

http://grants.nih.gov/grants/award/rank/medttl05.htm

4th in NIH grants isn't too shabby...

 

[p9142]

http://grants.nih.gov/grants/award/rank/medttl05.htm

4th in NIH grants isn't too shabby...

I am so glad you posted that. All of the doctors who were complaining that WashU was a nothing school had their schools bitch slapped when it comes to NIH funding. That puts my mind at ease a little bit.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

I am so glad you posted that. All of the doctors who were complaining that WashU was a nothing school had their schools bitch slapped when it comes to NIH funding. That puts my mind at ease a little bit.

Funding is also a large component of the US News rankings, btw.

 

[cyclohexanol]

WashU is definitely a powerhouse as far as research institutions go. My PI from Harvard agreed that it easily compares to her alma mater.

I also had the privilege of attending a lecture by Dr. Mark Miller of WashU fame; definitely on the forefront of immunology imaging technology. Very fascinating, brilliant guy.

 

[TBforme]

everyone in medicine knows that wash u is one of the best institutions in the country. there is no debate here. this really is a debate that come up every year on the premed forum but honestly everyone in medicine thinks it is one of the best. when you apply for residency, wash u in inevitably one of the top programs in nearly every field. i don't know why some people feel the urge to bash wash u.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

everyone in medicine knows that wash u is one of the best institutions in the country. there is no debate here. this really is a debate that come up every year on the premed forum but honestly everyone in medicine thinks it is one of the best. when you apply for residency, wash u in inevitably one of the top programs in nearly every field. i don't know why some people feel the urge to bash wash u.

I think it's because they send out about a gazillion flyers to prospective undergrads every year. Did anyone get these in high school? I could have wallpapered my room with them. And the whole time I was thinking, "Who's this crappy school that nobody's ever heard of! They seem really desperate!"

 

[acrobat]

Wash U doesn't even make their students take the boards. But with average MCATS of 38 or whatever they are at, I guess we can just assume they'd pass it in their sleep

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

Wash U doesn't even make their students take the boards. But with average MCATS of 38 or whatever they are at, I guess we can just assume they'd pass it in their sleep

Hmmm. I would wager that almost everyone takes them anyway, since you'll need board scores to match in a residency.

 

[Zymogen]

WashU is baller. That is all.

 

[MWillie]

ask MWillie🙄

Ever heard of Barnes Jewish Hospital? Guess not, but it's a nice place. Got skybridges and everything. Some of the most exciting developments in science are taking place at Wash U, read journals much?
Look at specialty rankings much? Barnes Barnes Barnes everywhere you look.

 

[mcat_study]

Ever heard of Barnes Jewish Hospital? Guess not, but it's a nice place. Got skybridges and everything. Some of the most exciting developments in science are taking place at Wash U, read journals much?
Look at specialty rankings much? Barnes Barnes Barnes everywhere you look.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

WashU is a top-tier school. They should stop sending flyers. That is all.
-Dr. P.

 

[LimitlessCat]

Personally, WASHU is one of my top choices, the only thing that might change that is if my interview goes really badly. What I will say is that you should not look to a school's average mcat scores when applying to the med school. You should look at their match rates, not only the percentage of medical students they match to any residency. But you should look at the percentage of students that match to their top choices. Also you should also look at the range of residencies available to the graduates. After all of this ask yourself, what kind of environment do I want to be in? And what kind of environment will I find in this school?
And the next time someone puts down your choice in medical school, ask them why.

 

[Trevelyan]

Personally, WASHU is one of my top choices, the only thing that might change that is if my interview goes really badly. What I will say is that you should not look to a school's average mcat scores when applying to the med school. You should look at their match rates, not only the percentage of medical students they match to any residency. But you should look at the percentage of students that match to their top choices. Also you should also look at the range of residencies available to the graduates. After all of this ask yourself, what kind of environment do I want to be in? And what kind of environment will I find in this school?
And the next time someone puts down your choice in medical school, ask them why.

Where do you find this info on match rates?

 

[Gut Shot]

But you should look at the percentage of students that match to their top choices.

Unfortunately this data is essentially useless, as it possesses a huge amount of selection bias. For instance, if someone is in the bottom quartile of his/her class, with <200 on Step 1, the likelihood of applying to neurosurgery is rather low. On the other hand, the person who is good enough to get into Hopkins is likely talented enough to match at will into derm, ENT, urology, ortho, etc. Medical students have a fairly strong propensity to identify what fields they are competitive for and apply to those fields.

There is also the fact that residency applicants already undergo a screening process in order to be granted interviews and considered in the match. All of this tilts things very much in favor of applicants matching in their top few choices, regardless of the institution.

Edit: On second thought, one may be able to discern a difference between institutions when comparing the most highly competitive fields, but at that point you might just be splitting hairs.

 

[Syranope2]

Wash U doesn't even make their students take the boards. But with average MCATS of 38 or whatever they are at, I guess we can just assume they'd pass it in their sleep

huh. as a wash u student, that would have been nice to know as i crammed my brain full of step one stuff a few months ago.

everybody takes the boards at wash u. i don't know what you're talking about.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

huh. as a wash u student, that would have been nice to know as i crammed my brain full of step one stuff a few months ago.

everybody takes the boards at wash u. i don't know what you're talking about.

of course everyone takes the boards, but according to the msar, they aren't required to graduate from WashU. good luck getting that licensure without usmle scores.

 

[Xypathos]

News Just In: SDN member questions WUSTL

Update To News Just In: MWillie's head has just exploded.

 

[45408]

ask MWillie🙄

 

[velo]

Wash U doesn't even make their students take the boards. But with average MCATS of 38 or whatever they are at, I guess we can just assume they'd pass it in their sleep

everyone at WashU takes the boards, you obviously need a step1 score to get a residency. Although you are correct that you aren't obligated to take to boards to graduate from the school.

 

[Xypathos]

I just found myself a new wallpaper

 

[yahoo123]

I think we have an early contender for best post of the year.

 

[MWillie]

Wow, you should be a graphics designer prowler. You must have a very busy life. The issue of this thread has already been settled.

 

[mcat_study]

.

 

[mcat_study]

 

[tacrum43]

Too funny. 👍

 

[45408]

Wow, you should be a graphics designer prowler. You must have a very busy life. The issue of this thread has already been settled.

I knew you'd immediately try to comment on how long it took me. You must suck at Photoshop if you think it took any more than five minutes.

 

[MWillie]

I knew you'd immediately try to comment on how long it took me. You must suck at Photoshop if you think it took any more than five minutes.

Ah but the very fact that you took the time to do it says something about you.

 

[45408]

Ah but the very fact that you took the time to do it says something about you.

And what is that? That I have other talents? A sense of humor? A life outside of studying?

 

[MWillie]

And what is that? That I have other talents? A sense of humor? A life outside of studying?

Something called nothing better to do.

 

[45408]

Something called nothing better to do.

says the M2 arguing with a bunch of Internet pre-meds about how awesome your school is at 1:21 am. Dude, you don't have a leg to stand on, and you know it.

 

[CptCrunch]

Something called nothing better to do.

So the 4000+ posts didn't give that away?

(I keed, I keed)

 

[MWillie]

says the M2 arguing with a bunch of Internet pre-meds about how awesome your school is at 1:21 am. Dude, you don't have a leg to stand on, and you know it.

Says the one whose life outside of studying is making photoshops for SDN. Looks like we're both wasting our time.

 

[MWillie]

So the 4000+ posts didn't give that away?

(I keed, I keed)

lol

 

[45408]

Says the one whose life outside of studying is making photoshops for SDN. Looks like we're both wasting our time.

I'm not the pot calling the kettle black

 

[45408]

lol

Pssst. You've made 90 posts in five days, but who's counting? 😀

 

[MWillie]

Pssst. You've made 90 posts in five days, but who's counting? 😀

Someone's earned the troll block. Good bye.

 

[45408]

Someone's earned the troll block. Good bye.

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out. :wavey:


By the way, in case anyone is wondering who the real troll is - this thread should make it quite clear: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=4051280&postcount=1

 

[dr_zippo]

I think the tier issue really depends on what you want to do with your degree. If you are going into academic medicine, then WashU is a powerhouse that will open doors for you. However, if you want to be a practicing clinician, telling your patients you went to WashU will get you nowhere. WashU is undoubtedly the least known of all top tier schools (by the general public.)

The debate about whether or not patients care where their doctor went to med school has been debated ad nauseum, but if you are on of the people who think it matters, than WashU is probably not the school for you.

 

[Depakote]

However, if you want to be a practicing clinician, telling your patients you went to WashU will get you nowhere. WashU is undoubtedly the least known of all top tier schools (by the general public.)

I beg to differ. I work for WashU med school. We have people come from all over the Mid-West for treatment (literally hundreds of miles). Those patients are damned happy to come here b/c they know they're getting the best treatment.

 

[MWillie]

Hating on Wash U is a hobby for those who don't agree with their admissions criteria, usually the ones who suck at taking tests/maintaining a high gpa, and believe in the value of fluffy extracurriculars like volunteering 2000 hours.

 

[Xypathos]

I beg to differ. I work for WashU med school. We have people come from all over the Mid-West for treatment (literally hundreds of miles). Those patients are damned happy to come here b/c they know they're getting the best treatment.

By general public, he means the Nation. Yes, as a student in the Midwest and I mention WashU I get a lot of "Wow, you must be gifted" but when I'm back home in the South and I say WashU, I get "Is that near Seattle?"

The same goes for UNC in the Midwest, unless they're bball fans, they don't really know what the initials mean, however in the South you get laughed at if you don't ... no ifs ands or buts.

 

[JustBreathe]

By general public, he means the Nation. Yes, as a student in the Midwest and I mention WashU I get a lot of "Wow, you must be gifted" but when I'm back home in the South and I say WashU, I get "Is that near Seattle?"

The same goes for UNC in the Midwest, unless they're bball fans, they don't really know what the initials mean, however in the South you get laughed at if you don't ... no ifs ands or buts.

This year, our orientation shirts said "WashU Med. That's in Seattle, right?" We all loved them.

WashU is an awesome school. Anyone that knows anything about medicine knows it. It'll get you anywhere you want to go. The end 🙂