It's a long way off, but what sort of specialty are you thinking of?

[Treg]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hey guys,

I will be finishing my PhD this summer and starting med school in the fall. My thesis project involves transplantation immunology in diabetes, so for a long time I have been thinking IM-endocrinology. Lately I have been shadowing in the OR with one of my mentors who is a transplant surgeon, and he is trying to convince me to go that route. I love the OR, but I am still a little daunted by going into surgery (hours, length of residency, then fellowship). I am also interested in imaging research, so I might head into rads. I know, three really different ideas are floating in my head!

What are you guys thinking? I know that many MD/PhDs go into IM and then specialize.

🙂Treg

 

[BDavis]

I am also interested in imaging research, so I might head into rads. I know, three really different ideas are floating in my head!

What are you guys thinking? I know that many MD/PhDs go into IM and then specialize.

🙂Treg

I am also thinking about IM Heme-Onc, but my PhD research has nothing to do with that particular field. I enjoyed my core clerkship and don't mind the paper pushing and getting dumped on by other services (it isn't any worse than what goes on in graduate school). Many of our graduates at my school are going into Neurology, Radiology, Derm, Rad-Onc, Ophtho and Pathology, but none to 1 person is thinking IM. I think IM may be less popular because of the higher demands on lifestyle. Nonetheless, everyone is picking a field that they would be happiest in.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Of my class of MSTP graduates, 3 are going into pathology (including myself), 2 are going into radiology, and one going into rad-onc. All of us are primarily interested in doing research hard-core in our careers and are happy with the career paths we've chosen. It's been a while since anyone has gone straight to post-doc after completing the MSTP.

Anyways, as an MD/PhD, you really have a lot of options as a PhD gives you a leg up on the competition (as I'm told). You will really have the liberty to pick your field based on your passions and interests rather than whether you have a high or low chance of matching into that field.

 

[Treg]

Of my class of MSTP graduates, 3 are going into pathology (including myself), 2 are going into radiology, and one going into rad-onc. All of us are primarily interested in doing research hard-core in our careers and are happy with the career paths we've chosen. It's been a while since anyone has gone straight to post-doc after completing the MSTP.

Anyways, as an MD/PhD, you really have a lot of options as a PhD gives you a leg up on the competition (as I'm told). You will really have the liberty to pick your field based on your passions and interests rather than whether you have a high or low chance of matching into that field.

Yeah, from what I have heard path and IM are the main MSTP specialties. Good luck with that! I am pretty passionate about my research as well, which is why I was thinking IM-endocrinology. I know a few docs who do it and I like their schedule a lot. But then there is this surgeon who really inspires me, and I like the "thinking/doing" aspect of surgery (if that makes sense). My main concern is the time (I have a family, and I am a woman). I think about it and I am adding up the years (4 for med school, 5 for residency, 2 for fellowship), which is two more years than IM+fellowship. But then again, after 4 years of BS, 5 years of PhD, what is two more years? I will be.....37......by the time I am done training 😱 I am truly a glutton for punishment. Of course, this is only my planning as of this week. 🙂

😉 Treg

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Yeah, from what I have heard path and IM are the main MSTP specialties. Good luck with that! I am pretty passionate about my research as well, which is why I was thinking IM-endocrinology. I know a few docs who do it and I like their schedule a lot. But then there is this surgeon who really inspires me, and I like the "thinking/doing" aspect of surgery (if that makes sense). My main concern is the time (I have a family, and I am a woman). I think about it and I am adding up the years (4 for med school, 5 for residency, 2 for fellowship), which is two more years than IM+fellowship. But then again, after 4 years of BS, 5 years of PhD, what is two more years? I will be.....37......by the time I am done training 😱 I am truly a glutton for punishment. Of course, this is only my planning as of this week. 🙂

😉 Treg

Back in the day when I was thinking of going into IM, I was thinking along the lines of endocrinology as well. 👍 I found endocrinology to have the coolest diseases that was diagnosed and studied in a very logical fashion (feedback loops are easy even for Andy here to understand 🙂 ).

Anyways, you don't have to even think about these issues for a few years. Enjoy life!

 

[BDavis]

But then there is this surgeon who really inspires me, and I like the "thinking/doing" aspect of surgery (if that makes sense). My main concern is the time (I have a family, and I am a woman). I think about it and I am adding up the years (4 for med school, 5 for residency, 2 for fellowship), which is two more years than IM+fellowship. But then again, after 4 years of BS, 5 years of PhD, what is two more years? I will be.....37......by the time I am done training 😱 I am truly a glutton for punishment. Of course, this is only my planning as of this week. 🙂

😉 Treg

Some of our graduates have found a happy medium with research and procedures in radiation oncology. Some of the residencies are very research oriented and you have an opportunity to do some procedures as well. The lifestyle and salaries are supposedly better than internal medicine, but the residencies are much more competitive.

 

[Treg]

Some of our graduates have found a happy medium with research and procedures in radiation oncology. Some of the residencies are very research oriented and you have an opportunity to do some procedures as well. The lifestyle and salaries are supposedly better than internal medicine, but the residencies are much more competitive.

Hmm, I am beginning to think that I am the only one crazy enough to consider surgery after MD/PhD. I kind of wonder about the culture of it, especially since it is highly male dominated (although the same could be said for science). I wonder, would I be the only MD/PhD latina transplant surgeon in the country? 😀

I was supposed to see a pancreas transplant today that got cancelled. I am soooo disappointed. 🙁

Treg

 

[BDavis]

Hmm, I am beginning to think that I am the only one crazy enough to consider surgery after MD/PhD. I kind of wonder about the culture of it, especially since it is highly male dominated (although the same could be said for science).
Treg

Last year we had a graduate go into plastic surgery and two this year go into neurosurgery. Even though the time committment is long (not much worse than a MD/PhD program), they seem to enjoy what they do even though many of them will be in their late 30's before they even start in faculty position/private practice.

 

[surge]

I'm definitely going into surgery.

I was pretty set on neuro, but have since gotten very interested in g-surg subspecialties, especially peds and peds CT. I feel it will be a while before I decide on the particular surgical subspecialty, but there is no doubt I want to do surgery.
I feel that there is far too little research done in surgery and by surgeons (with some notable exceptions) and I feel that that will be my niche. It's very difficult and time consuming, but there aren't many other priorities in life I have, so it's not an issue. I understand, however, how many people would feel differently.
Anyway, my MSTP directors are not to thrilled, but I'll win them over. Same happened during interviews 🙂

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I think surgery is very cool and you're definitely right in your thoughts that surgery is a very opportune field in which you can make your own niche. It is a longer road than others but we're not talking too many years.

Some General Surgery residencies are 7 years because they involve 2 years of research. If you have an MD/PhD background, some programs can waive those 2 years for you. Thing is surgery is a very grueling residency and those 2 years of research allow for an opportunity to sit and catch your breath.

 

[Treg]

I think surgery is very cool and you're definitely right in your thoughts that surgery is a very opportune field in which you can make your own niche. It is a longer road than others but we're not talking too many years.

Some General Surgery residencies are 7 years because they involve 2 years of research. If you have an MD/PhD background, some programs can waive those 2 years for you. Thing is surgery is a very grueling residency and those 2 years of research allow for an opportunity to sit and catch your breath.

I wish they would make a 3+3 GS/Transplantation fellowship for me. That would be ideal (I know they have something in the pipeline for CT like that). I went yesterday to a kidney/pancreas tx, which was really neat. I saw the donor as well. It still wigs me out a bit to see them harvest the organs (esp. from a 20yo MVA), but it is getting easier. I have shadowed a lot of specialties and surgery really seems to fit. I never experience boredom, even after 10 hours of mostly standing and watching. I keep feeling like saying, "hey, let me try!" Haha. Now I am seriously thinking of changing my plans and staying here for med school/residency, since I have a house <5 min. from the hospital/lab and a great opportunity for a post-doc during med school with a internationally recognized mentor. Then I would go away for my fellowship, etc. So much to think about-ugh! But you really have to plan ahead for stuff like this if you have a family.... I can't complain though, since I love science, I love medicine, and I am excited about my future career 🙂

Treg

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Sounds like a plan Treg. You gotta do what's best for you and your family. Transplant Surgery is definitely a fertile ground in terms of research. 👍

 

[N-toxicologist]

Glad I saw this thread; I'm not here much. 👍

I applied DO/Ph.D here in my hometown. I wanna be a brain surgeon, and my research area is Pharm/Neuro. There is no doubt about it; that's what I want to do. Now, as for meticulous, careful planning, I have three kids, so my issues with family are being addressed as we speak. I feel lucky in this aspect, as I'm not looking at the next 8-10 years, wondering, "When am I going to start a family?" Beyond adding up the years I'll be in school and thinking about what stages in life my kids will be in, I can honestly say I haven't thought too much about the distant future, like residency, except for the immediate app process, etc.

Anyway, Treg, I'm glad to see another woman who has such lofty goals. Surprisingly, people think I'm nuts, but this all makes perfect sense to me. 👍

Good luck

 

[scooter31]

There are a buttload of MD/PhD neurosurgeons where I do research. Dunno if its the nature of the beast or the nature of the institution. Regardless, 8+ yrs MD/PhD + ~6-7yrs residency is a long haul. 👍

 

[Neuronix]

Some of you might be interested in what I have to say...

I have no idea, sorry 🙂 I used to have some very strong ideas, and I still think they're cool, but now I seem to think everything is cool (except for Path and IM). I think it might come down to what has a reasonable length/intensity of training and clinical requirements such that I can combine clinical and research without working 80hrs/week.

 

[Treg]

Thanks for all the replies everyone-I would love to hear more! I enjoy seeing what other MD/PhD students are hoping to do with their lives. We are the future of medicine and it is great to see that there is such a spectrum of interests out there. My gut keeps telling me I have to go into transplant surgery (no pun intended! haha)--it just seems to fit. I still have a lot of time to decide, but honestly I can't foresee myself finding anything else as stimulating. Anyway, I have a renewed interest in my Pitt interview this week, seeing that they have a rich tradition in transplantation research.

😀 Treg

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Thanks for all the replies everyone-I would love to hear more! I enjoy seeing what other MD/PhD students are hoping to do with their lives. We are the future of medicine and it is great to see that there is such a spectrum of interests out there. My gut keeps telling me I have to go into transplant surgery (no pun intended! haha)--it just seems to fit. I still have a lot of time to decide, but honestly I can't foresee myself finding anything else as stimulating. Anyway, I have a renewed interest in my Pitt interview this week, seeing that they have a rich tradition in transplantation research.

😀 Treg

Pitt has a very prolific transplantation research according to a long-time friend who is a 3rd year surgery resident there. He loves it there and he is also thinking of doing a transplant fellowship.

Treg, it's great that you have an idea of what you want to go into before med school even starts. I had absolutely no idea or thought about this matter when I stepped into the lecture hall on day 1 of med school (after which I vowed to skip class for the next two years). 😀

 

[Primate]

Our class is something like 5-6 in path, around same number in IM, several each to rads and derm, maybe one ophtho, couple in peds, a few into surge or surge specialty, couple not doing residency (I think 2 are doing post-docs). I think that's about right (maybe one more in neurology), but it's tough to keep track of everyone, and I may be mixing up some from last year's with this year's. I do know that no one is going into neurosurgery this year (had 2 last year).

Certainly, not all of these people are interested in being hard core RO1 writing types. But that's the topic of a different thread . . . 🙄 😉

P

 

[abeanatrice]

Thanks for all the replies everyone-I would love to hear more! I enjoy seeing what other MD/PhD students are hoping to do with their lives. We are the future of medicine and it is great to see that there is such a spectrum of interests out there. My gut keeps telling me I have to go into transplant surgery (no pun intended! haha)--it just seems to fit. I still have a lot of time to decide, but honestly I can't foresee myself finding anything else as stimulating. Anyway, I have a renewed interest in my Pitt interview this week, seeing that they have a rich tradition in transplantation research.

😀 Treg

Treg, when are you going to Pitt? I'll be there next Mon and Tues...

 

[Gfunk6]

Treg, best of luck with your decision. Since you are just starting in the clinic, I'm sure that you will have some time to gain some additional perspective. You are certainly correct that there is a shortage of surgeons who are doing basic research. Most of the research in surgery is clincially oriented, trying to improve operative techniques and post-operative outcomes.

Although the surgery pathway seems like it doesn't take too much time compared other residencies -- general surg if 5 years just like Rad/RadOnc or IM+fellowhip -- it is quite different in terms of time you will work. Having rotated through both IM and Surgery I can tell you that residents in the latter work their asses off. The ACGME limit of 80 hours/week is kind of a running joke at most academic programs. It is not that the programs don't want to comply, they simply can't. There are too many patients and not enough residents.

I was interested in giving the surgery clerkship a try before I thought about surgery seriously as a career choice. However, my belief is that it is simply incompatible with family life. The work hours are truly inhuman and though I admire those who could handle it for 5 years, I don't think I have it in me personally. Not only that but the residencies are not "bottom heavy" (e.g. they are tough for the first year then the get easier) and demand many hours of work for all 5 years. Of course this is not always the case at community programs, but you are on an academic track.

With that said, there are many advantages to identifying your career choice so early. Networking will certainly help you out down the road. Good luck!

My own interests lie in Oncology. I was interested initially in Med-Onc, Surg Onc (now eliminated), and RadOnc. The only problem I have with Med-Onc is that I have to do an IM residency and I really have no interest in general medicine, just oncology. This is why I hope to match in RadOnc which focuses exclusively on cancer. Also, I have to say that I was very impressed with Psych during my rotation so that is also a possibility in the back of my mind.

 

[Treg]

Treg, when are you going to Pitt? I'll be there next Mon and Tues...

I am doing a regular MD interview on Tuesday-perhaps I will see you there!


GFunk-I have been investigating the 80 hr work week thing. Some surgery programs do enforce it, so I will be gravitating towards these places. I also hope that by the time I am in residency (5 years from now), it will be the standard. Some places are being forced to take it seriously (think Johns Hopkins IM which lost its accreditation). I have a family so this is a big leap for me...

Good luck with the rads-oncology! I am sure the match will be kind to you 🙂

Treg

 

[JETER]

So, can we post here if we are not yet in med school? I have a strong idea for my specialty, but I don't want to "jump the gun"

??

 

[Neuronix]

So, can we post here if we are not yet in med school? I have a strong idea for my specialty, but I don't want to "jump the gun"

??

You'll probably change your mind, but why not post your thoughts? Nobody is going to tell you to shut up 🙂

 

[JETER]

You'll probably change your mind, but why not post your thoughts? Nobody is going to tell you to shut up 🙂

Good to hear!

I am interested in orthopaedic materials development. I have been doing material engineering research for four years, and I have been an OR tech, observing/assisting ortho cases for three. I am fascinated in this area, and I think it would be an interesting and rewarding career. Just my thoughts, though. Does anyone know anybody in this area? Thanks


~ Jeter

 

[CT007]

In response to previous comments regarding MD/PhD's going into surgery, I don't think it's that rare. I'm a 5th year MD/PhD student at Texas A&M, and I'm definitely going into cardiothoracic surgery. My research has also been in the cardiovascular field (with a lot of microsugery), and I hope that by the time I go back for the last two years of med school, combined CT surgery residencies would have been developed, otherwise I'll do the standard GS+fellowship. Anyways, I wanted to encourage MD/PhD's who are looking at surgery specialties to pursue their dreams. Don't worry about what the program directors or other MD/PhD students will say. You are the one spending/wasting 7-10 years of your life, and I think you are entitled to do whatever you want with the multiple degrees. Besides, there's plenty of research potential in surgery, nomatter what people say. I have to agree with other comments that most graduates will go into path or IM - it's the same with our program.

 

[Treg]

Hey guys,

I am still pretty deadset on entering surgery. I had a few interviews this past week, and I was surprised by some of the seemingly sexist comments I got from my interviewers that I don't think they would have asked a male applicant (what does your husband think? What about raising your daughter? Transplant surgery--that is a tough field for women....). Hopefully my LORs will dispell any concerns about ability to juggle a busy life, and confirm my interest in the field. The surgeon I have been shadowing just gave me a glowing letter, so hopefully it will get there before any major decisions are made.

Now, if I could just get my paper submitted in the next week or so, I would be really happy 😀

Treg

 

[theprizefighter]

Hi, Treq

I know an MD/PhD graduate from Stanford who's a first year resident in Orthopedic Surgery. He's on their six year research track program. That's a pretty long road but he told me that the time goes by very quickly so there's certainly no reason my MD/PhD graduates can't do surgery, especially if the program has a strong research tilt, which it does thanks to Dr. Fu's leadership. As for the training time, my attitude is: who cares? If you're the type who want's instant gratification and a lot of money, medicine certainly isn't the way to go. The joy, at least for the mud/phuds, I know is in the journey one goes thru in training to become a physician-scientist in addition to the stellar opportunities you get when that training is done.

 

[1Path]

I'll be continuing my current work in urological pathology.

 

[Witty Web Name]

Ph.D. --> Molecular Biophysics (99.99% sure even though I'm an undergrad... in all my chem and bio classes, I find myself most interested in how physical properties of molecules such as shape and charge affect biological systems)
MD --> anything but surgery (I have a slight tick to my hand)

 

[QofQuimica]

I didn't know about this thread when I made mine; sorry! My PhD will be in pharmaceutical chemistry, and I'm looking to start med school in 2006. I am interested in research to treat neuropathic pain and I'm thinking that I'll go into anesthesiology.

BTW, Treg, I'm a girl too, and I totally know how you feel, b/c the physical sciences are still pretty male-dominated. I've run into a few sexist profs along the way, and there were only a couple of other girls in my p. chem. classes. But on the positive side, there are a lot of guys who've really supported me, and they are the majority. My labmates and my mentor are all super supportive.

I am really glad that this site is here. I only know one other PhD who is going back for his MD, so I'm really appreciating "talking" to other people who are doing both degrees.