J1 Visa - Returning back to the U.S after 2 yrs?

[superoxide]

Hi there,

I'm a Canadian citizen, currently an MS4 at a carib school, interested in doing a U.S residency in pediatrics on a J1 visa. Does anyone know how hard it is to get a job after returning back to the U.S once you have completed your 2 yr home country requirement? I heard from a friend of mine that it's hard (even if you are U.S board certified), because of the different health care systems of the U.S vs Canada, as the first place I would be practicing as an attending would be in Canada. It would be great if I could get a waiver, but the Canadian government won't issue a "No objection" letter.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Blade28]

Just out of curiosity, if you're from Canada and will be working there as an attending anyway, why come to the US at all?

 

[superoxide]

Just out of curiosity, if you're from Canada and will be working there as an attending anyway, why come to the US at all?

Personal/family reasons

 

[NotAProgDirector]

After you complete the 2 year manditory return to Canada, you'll still need a visa to return back to the US to work. At this point you'd qualify for an H1b visa, but I don't know how hard it would be to get one. It's hard to predict what the visa situation will be years in advance. If you plan on getting married to a US citizen or have some other pathway to a GC, then returning to the US in peds should not be all that hard.

 

[superoxide]

After you complete the 2 year manditory return to Canada, you'll still need a visa to return back to the US to work. At this point you'd qualify for an H1b visa, but I don't know how hard it would be to get one. It's hard to predict what the visa situation will be years in advance. If you plan on getting married to a US citizen or have some other pathway to a GC, then returning to the US in peds should not be all that hard.

Thanks aPD for your response. I'm not worried about the visa issue at all. I was told by a friend that my canadian experience as an attending would count against me when looking for jobs in the U.S (U.S experience is preferred/required), but you think otherwise. That's good to know. Thanks again🙂

 

[Blade28]

Well, did you have any other backup plans? Is going to a Canadian residency an option? Or do you have any other way of getting a different type of visa?

Otherwise, it sounds like you're going to be in the US for 3+ years for your Peds residency, and then will have to return to Canada for 2+ years no matter what, right?

 

[superoxide]

Well, did you have any other backup plans? Is going to a Canadian residency an option? Or do you have any other way of getting a different type of visa?

Otherwise, it sounds like you're going to be in the US for 3+ years for your Peds residency, and then will have to return to Canada for 2+ years no matter what, right?

Getting a peds residency in Canada as an IMG is very hard. I believe there are only 9 positions in the IMG quota in the whole country. Family Medicine has a larger quota, but it's still quite competitive there too.

The ideal situation would be to do a U.S peds residency on an H1 visa, but there are very few programs that sponsor it.

 

[f_w]

I know folks who have done it, in peds. And that was not from canada but rather from various 'stans'.

Would you be able to do a fellowship in canada based on your US residency ? How competitive are fellowships ?

I have never heard that your experience in canada could count against you. Plenty of attendings are recruited to come south of the border from canada in all kinds of specialties.

Now the job market for peds is not so hot in the first place and looking for a job from abroad is going to make it harder. But it can certainly be done.

 

[superoxide]

I know folks who have done it, in peds. And that was not from canada but rather from various 'stans'.

Would you be able to do a fellowship in canada based on your US residency ? How competitive are fellowships ?

I have never heard that your experience in canada could count against you. Plenty of attendings are recruited to come south of the border from canada in all kinds of specialties.

Now the job market for peds is not so hot in the first place and looking for a job from abroad is going to make it harder. But it can certainly be done.

In Canada a pediatrics residency is 4 yrs long (vs 3 yrs in the U.S), so for me to practice or pursue a fellowship in Canada, I would have to find a PGY4 position in order to be certified by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (which is the licensing board for all specialties here). I'm interested in pursuing a career as a community pediatrician, so I haven't really looked into fellowships, but I would assume they are quite competitive.

Thanks for your response.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

In Canada a pediatrics residency is 4 yrs long (vs 3 yrs in the U.S), so for me to practice or pursue a fellowship in Canada, I would have to find a PGY4 position in order to be certified by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (which is the licensing board for all specialties here). I'm interested in pursuing a career as a community pediatrician, so I haven't really looked into fellowships, but I would assume they are quite competitive.

Thanks for your response.

Well, you're going to need to do something. When you finish your three years of peds in the US, you won't be able to practice in Canada, right? If you go back to Canada and then don't work as an MD, that will definitely impact your ability to return to the US later. You could do a US fellowship -- that would give you 4+ years of training.

 

[f_w]

In Canada a pediatrics residency is 4 yrs long (vs 3 yrs in the U.S), so for me to practice or pursue a fellowship in Canada, I would have to find a PGY4 position in order to be certified by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (which is the licensing board for all specialties here).

I would suggest that you try to land a PGY-4 chief resident position then. You allways want to have the option to go back to CDN. From what I understand, the RCPSC are real hard-a$$es when it comes to the minimum times required.

 

[f_w]

Oh, and at some point you will realize that you won't be able to feed your kids AND pay your school loans on a general pediatricians salary. So I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a fellowship.

 

[superoxide]

Thanks for all your responses.

 

[QuantumX]

The ideal situation would be to do a U.S peds residency on an H1 visa, but there are very few programs that sponsor it.

Just a note on Peds residency programs, superoxide. They ARE few, but there are still about 40 of them. My wife is a pediatrics resident on an H1. Email the program coordinators for details on whether they sponsor H1's. That I think is a much better option for you..

 

[f_w]

Just a note on Peds residency programs, superoxide. They ARE few, but there are still about 40 of them. My wife is a pediatrics resident on an H1. Email the program coordinators for details on whether they sponsor H1's. That I think is a much better option for you..

And the key is to not relent. Few places are actually hard and fast 'no H1'. Many others will try to get you to eat a J1 (about $2500 less for them), but if they are interested in you they will actually go along with an H1.

 

[superoxide]

And the key is to not relent. Few places are actually hard and fast 'no H1'. Many others will try to get you to eat a J1 (about $2500 less for them), but if they are interested in you they will actually go along with an H1.

Thanks f_dubya. 😛 That's good to know.

Just one more question. I have seen on quite a few residency websites which state that they do not sponsor any visas (H1 or J1). But will they accept a J1 visa sponsored by the ECFMG? or are they only considering U.S citizens/GC holders?

 

[f_w]

Just one more question. I have seen on quite a few residency websites which state that they do not sponsor any visas (H1 or J1). But will they accept a J1 visa sponsored by the ECFMG?

That is just to keep the riff-raff out.

Websites are like a-holes, everyone has one. Often the information is outdated or just something a $8/hr secretary put up there 10 years ago. Until you get a 'no we do not sponsor H1b visas and we never have' out of the mouth of the director of GME and the head of human resources, it is all hearsay. Even residency directors are often clueless in these matters.

 

[Llenroc]

You don't have to leave. There's the J1 visa waiver program, once you've completed your residency. You have to agree to work in an underserved area for a few years, in exchange for an immediate conversion to H1B and sponsorship for green card. Some of these jobs are pretty decent.

 

[f_w]

You don't have to leave. There's the J1 visa waiver program, once you've completed your residency. You have to agree to work in an underserved area for a few years, in exchange for an immediate conversion to H1B and sponsorship for green card. Some of these jobs are pretty decent.

In many states you need a 'letter of no objection' from the embassy of your home country before the state will sponsor you for a waiver. Canada wants all their docs back and doesn't issue this letter making the J1 waiver very difficult for canadians (now, if canada would actually allow them to practice upon their return that would be one thing, but they have rigged the system in a way to keep those returnees out of jobs which makes it quite infuriating).

 

[PistolPete]

As far as I know, the letter of no objection from Health Canada is only required for Conrad30 Programs (but I could be wrong). Apparently, you can go work for the VA, and they do not require a letter of no objection (the VA will submit the documentation straight to INS, I believe). After 3 years, you can get a green card. You might want to check that out.

 

[f_w]

you can go work for the VA, and they do not require a letter of no objection

Correct, but that doesn't work for pediatricians like the OP.

 

[Dreaming]

Correct, but that doesn't work for pediatricians like the OP.

How do you find out which specialties it works for?

 

[f_w]

How do you find out which specialties it works for?

It works for all specialties except pediatrics and pediatric subspecialties. In case you haven't worked at a VA hospital: the clientele is 95% old men and 5% old women. VA hospitals don't treat children.

There are other options like the appalachian regional commission and the delta regional authority. But those cover geographically limited areas and unless your job falls under their jurisdiction you won't be able to avail yourself of those waivers.

 

[Faebinder]

I warn everyone a million times about the J-1. Beware the magic J-1.

This story is in Nevada but it can happen in any state and no one would know better. Your partner (or partners) can and infact will proably abuse you because he/she is holding you by the balls.

Seek an H-1 unless you are dead desperate.

 

[f_w]

H1 is certainly the way to go, but unfortunately the number of hospitals that sponsor it is limited. If it furthers your career goals, there is nothing wrong with taking a J1. But you have to go into the J1 thing with your eyes wide open. A couple of pearls I have picked up over the years:

- look at 'going back' as your baseline option and take it from there
- be afraid of colleagues of your own ethnicity who will 'hook you up'. Those turn out to be the worst slavedrivers.
- measure twice, cut once. don't take a job because it pays good or is convenient from the place you did your residency. take it because you think it is an ethical employer with a track-record of treating associate physicians well.
- stay away from any job that says 'will gladly take J1'. these are the ones looking for a dependent weak associate.
- the bigger the practice, the better off you are. exploitative relationships tend to happen in small practices with shaky finances. consider large multispecialty group practices as your first choice. they have established contracts and procedures and won't be able to treat you any different than a regular employee physician.
- consider the VA. the money sucks, but you know what to expect (few evil VA administrators)

 

[Blade28]

Great advice in this thread for IMGs!

 

[McGillGrad]

As mentioned, the J1 waiver is the only way to go for you. Get a good lawyer and get some legal advice about the letter.

Better yet, get married to an American and be done with this nonsense.

 

[Faebinder]

As mentioned, the J1 waiver is the only way to go for you. Get a good lawyer and get some legal advice about the letter.

Better yet, get married to an American and be done with this nonsense.

J-1 return requirement is not waived by marriage as far as I know... not that exceptions are not made.

 

[f_w]

Better yet, get married to an American and be done with this nonsense.

Get married BEFORE you need a J1 and do your residency on employment authorization or green-card.

AFTER you have a J1 (with home residency requirement), marriage or US citizen kids don't do a f##### thing for you.*


*Exceptions:
- you are from a place that intends to have you or your infidel wife stoned upon return and you can claim persecution.
- you have a kid that is dependent on medical care not available in your home country and would die an unsightly death.
Both of those exceptions don't apply to canada, unless of course you are an anglo in quebec.....