I am trying to piece together my list and am looking for input comparing and contrasting these two programs. Any pros and cons of each program would be greatly appreciated.
Jacobi vs. Mt. Sinai
- Thread starter hope280
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If you are considering a career in academics, the network of Jacobi people in academics is impressive. Maybe a Jacobi resident here can speak to whether it comes in useful when looking for an academic post.
Does anyone know the Jacobi schedule? I remember there's was extremely time intensive, I had thought 22 12 hr shifts/month. However I just saw this on the EMRA website so I guess I was wrong.
Hours scheduled to work per day while in the ED as an intern
All 12 hour shifts
Shifts per month where interns work in the emergency department
20
Hours scheduled to work per day while in the ED as an upper level resident
PGY-3: 8 or 12 hour shifts, 4 days/week - PGY-4: 12 hour shifts, 3.5 days/week
Average shifts per month for senior level residents to work in the emergency department
16 or less
Hours scheduled to work per day while in the ED as an intern
All 12 hour shifts
Shifts per month where interns work in the emergency department
20
Hours scheduled to work per day while in the ED as an upper level resident
PGY-3: 8 or 12 hour shifts, 4 days/week - PGY-4: 12 hour shifts, 3.5 days/week
Average shifts per month for senior level residents to work in the emergency department
16 or less
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hey. i'm an intern at jacobi.
there are a lot of jacobi alums in academics. i'm sure the network of alums comes in useful. i haven't really thought that far ahead, but what i can tell you is that all the pgy-4's who want academic positions are getting interviews/offers at academic programs. however, i think most of the pgy-4's would prefer to go into (and are going into) community EM.
our schedule is split up into two week blocks. there are 26 two week blocks per year. when you work in the ED as an intern you work 10 twelve hour shifts per block. peds ED blocks are 10 eight hour shifts per block for interns. feel free to post here or PM me with any specific questions about Jacobi. --sp
there are a lot of jacobi alums in academics. i'm sure the network of alums comes in useful. i haven't really thought that far ahead, but what i can tell you is that all the pgy-4's who want academic positions are getting interviews/offers at academic programs. however, i think most of the pgy-4's would prefer to go into (and are going into) community EM.
our schedule is split up into two week blocks. there are 26 two week blocks per year. when you work in the ED as an intern you work 10 twelve hour shifts per block. peds ED blocks are 10 eight hour shifts per block for interns. feel free to post here or PM me with any specific questions about Jacobi. --sp
I did my residency at Sinai and finished 2006. I really loved the program and the mix between the two hospitals of Sinai and Elmhurst. It was a really well rounded program, lots of critical cases, good admin experience, excellent conferences and guest speakers. It had everything you could want in a program...critical cases, patients from all over the world, simulation medicine, and excellent ultrasound curriculum (gives you enough sonos to sit for RDMS if desired), and a nice family atmosphere. The department is well respected in the hospital and in EM as a field in general. A lot of this comes from Jagoda who's the ED director and well connected in the EM world.
I worked with people who trained at Jacobi and thought our training was pretty similar. I think at Sinai think we had more guest speakers, more opportunity/funding for away conferences, and at the time a stronger US curriculum, but I think most places have caught up by now. I think Jacobi saw more trauma overall, (though I feel like I saw too much as well), and Jacobi was doing more research at the time. Jacobi also has a longer tradition since it's been around 20+ years. A lot of the "older" attendings (meaning in late 30s) from Sinai trained at Jacobi and were really awesome. They loved Elmhurst, it's a pretty special place, although all of them said they wouldn't trade their experience at Jacobi for anything. I feel the same about Sinai..
Overall, I think Jacobi may throw you into the fire a bit while Sinai does a little more hand holding at first, but the end result is the same.
Either way you'll be really well trained and get the job you want when you're done. Right now I'm in admin at another residency program in my home state, a job which I would not have gotten if it wasn't for the admin experience I had at Sinai.
Good luck with the match and your decision, I went through the same thing.
I worked with people who trained at Jacobi and thought our training was pretty similar. I think at Sinai think we had more guest speakers, more opportunity/funding for away conferences, and at the time a stronger US curriculum, but I think most places have caught up by now. I think Jacobi saw more trauma overall, (though I feel like I saw too much as well), and Jacobi was doing more research at the time. Jacobi also has a longer tradition since it's been around 20+ years. A lot of the "older" attendings (meaning in late 30s) from Sinai trained at Jacobi and were really awesome. They loved Elmhurst, it's a pretty special place, although all of them said they wouldn't trade their experience at Jacobi for anything. I feel the same about Sinai..
Overall, I think Jacobi may throw you into the fire a bit while Sinai does a little more hand holding at first, but the end result is the same.
Either way you'll be really well trained and get the job you want when you're done. Right now I'm in admin at another residency program in my home state, a job which I would not have gotten if it wasn't for the admin experience I had at Sinai.
Good luck with the match and your decision, I went through the same thing.
I did my residency at Sinai and finished 2006. I really loved the program and the mix between the two hospitals of Sinai and Elmhurst. It was a really well rounded program, lots of critical cases, good admin experience, excellent conferences and guest speakers. It had everything you could want in a program...critical cases, patients from all over the world, simulation medicine, and excellent ultrasound curriculum (gives you enough sonos to sit for RDMS if desired), and a nice family atmosphere. The department is well respected in the hospital and in EM as a field in general. A lot of this comes from Jagoda who's the ED director and well connected in the EM world.
I worked with people who trained at Jacobi and thought our training was pretty similar. I think at Sinai think we had more guest speakers, more opportunity/funding for away conferences, and at the time a stronger US curriculum, but I think most places have caught up by now. I think Jacobi saw more trauma overall, (though I feel like I saw too much as well), and Jacobi was doing more research at the time. Jacobi also has a longer tradition since it's been around 20+ years. A lot of the "older" attendings (meaning in late 30s) from Sinai trained at Jacobi and were really awesome. They loved Elmhurst, it's a pretty special place, although all of them said they wouldn't trade their experience at Jacobi for anything. I feel the same about Sinai..
Overall, I think Jacobi may throw you into the fire a bit while Sinai does a little more hand holding at first, but the end result is the same.
Either way you'll be really well trained and get the job you want when you're done. Right now I'm in admin at another residency program in my home state, a job which I would not have gotten if it wasn't for the admin experience I had at Sinai.
Good luck with the match and your decision, I went through the same thing.
I worked with people who trained at Jacobi and thought our training was pretty similar. I think at Sinai think we had more guest speakers, more opportunity/funding for away conferences, and at the time a stronger US curriculum, but I think most places have caught up by now. I think Jacobi saw more trauma overall, (though I feel like I saw too much as well), and Jacobi was doing more research at the time. Jacobi also has a longer tradition since it's been around 20+ years. A lot of the "older" attendings (meaning in late 30s) from Sinai trained at Jacobi and were really awesome. They loved Elmhurst, it's a pretty special place, although all of them said they wouldn't trade their experience at Jacobi for anything. I feel the same about Sinai..
Overall, I think Jacobi may throw you into the fire a bit while Sinai does a little more hand holding at first, but the end result is the same.
Either way you'll be really well trained and get the job you want when you're done. Right now I'm in admin at another residency program in my home state, a job which I would not have gotten if it wasn't for the admin experience I had at Sinai.
Good luck with the match and your decision, I went through the same thing.
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Does anyone know the salary at Jacobi and about how much taxes are taken out?
According to FREIDA, the Jacobi salaries are 49603, 51534, 55389, and 57216.
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a few people have PM'd me with various questions about jacobi so i thought i'd answer everything here. my disclaimer is that i'm an intern at jacobi and i like what i do and where i do it and the people i do it with. ok that sounds lascivious, but you all know what i mean.
1. Nursing:
in the past nursing at jacobi was supposedly very bad. that has changed a lot in recent times. the second years keep saying how much it's improved since their first year and even i've noticed a change for the better in the 7 months i've been here. a lot of new nurses are being hired. a lot of the old school nurses who never did any work are quitting/moving on and being replaced by people who are on top of their stuff.
at monte nursing has never been an issue. the nurses there are some of the best i've worked with (in my limited experience) and are all-round good guys (and gals) in addition to being clinically astute.
one final note about nursing. as an intern, you'll find that you'll go through a 'hazing period' with the nurses at the beginning of your intern year. i don't think this is specific to jacobi. it's more a function of nurses who have been doing their job for years/decades suddenly having to take orders from a green intern. they want to make sure you know what you're talking about before they blindly do what you ask. it lasted a couple of weeks to a month. now, for the most part, they do what i ask and we get along well. also, when i make a mistake they're pretty good about catching it.
2. Other ancillary staff/stuff:
IVs/blood draws - lab'ing and lining a patient traditionally has been the chief's job at jacobi. if things get busy then it's your responsibility to get it done. usually if i ask a nurse to do it it gets done, but if it's really busy i do it myself to save time. also, if it's a hard stick and the nurse can't get it then i grab the US and do it myself, or if i still can't get it then i ask the preattending.
at monte the nurses/techs do the lines/labs. again, if it gets busy or if they can't get it then it's on you.
transport - i've noticed a big change at jacobi since the beginning of intern year. back in the summer, i'd transport all my patients everywhere. lately, i've noticed that the PCA's will transport patients to CT/XR, etc. obviously if you've got a really sick patient then you transport them yourself with a monitor, but for routine stuff the PCA's are doing it.
at monte the techs will transport and are pretty good about it. when it gets busy you do it yourself to get it done faster.
3. Hours:
our academic year is split up into two week blocks, with 26 two week blocks per academic year. also, keep in mind that we are transitioning from a PGY 2-4 format to a PGY 1-4 format. currently, the 3's and 4's trained under the former format and the 1's and 2's under the latter format. this won't change things that much, but it will give us an elective block third year.
@ jacobi -
PGY1 ten 12's/block
PGY2 nine 12's/block
PGY3 six 8's and three 12's/block
PGY4 seven 12's/block
@ monte -
PGY1 ten 12's/block
PGY2 ten 12's/block
PGY3 nine 12's/block
PGY4 eight 12's/block
4. Conference
Conference is Wed's from 9am till noon or 1pm. It isn't "officially" protected, but the scheduling chief does a pretty good job of putting off service rotators (IM, G-surg, OB/GYN, LIJ ED residents) on during conference so you can go. rarely you'll be scheduled to work during conference and then you end up missing it.
5. Living Situation
in my class of 18, 5 of us live in monte/riverdale housing, 1 lives in yonkers, 2 live in the bronx (but not in monte), 1 lives in Harlem, 1 in Washington Heights, and the rest commute from the UES. the commute is a pretty easy one, but since i'm a lazy bastard i live in monte! and even though i live up here in the bronx i still go into the city a couple of times a week and sometimes on my days off i'll go hang out in brooklyn or queens, so you're not isolated just cause you live up here.
6. Negatives
hmm, i really had to think about this because i don't really have anything that sticks out. i guess one negative is that we don't have any international rotations set up, so if you want to do that you have to be proactive and set everything up yourself. a few of the fourth years are still doing them, they just had to set it up for themselves. tom (our PD) actively encourages us to go on international rotations, but the onus is on you to flesh out the details.
i'd say 40% of our patients are either spanish only or bilingual but better spanish speakers but i consider that an asset. some consider that a negative because it's harder to get a good Hx etc.
tom (our PD) has done a good job of addressing the things that used to be considered negatives (nursing etc). i think i've talked about them above.
7. Jobs after residency
this is an abstract concept for me because i'm only an intern, but we've been around 33 years and have alumni pretty much everywhere, so that will help in getting your foot in the door at a lot of places. my knowledge is purely anecdotal based on talking to the fourth years, but nobody is having a hard time finding what they want. if anything, people are saying how hard it is to decide which offer to take. also, people are having no problem whatsoever getting jobs in traditionally difficult markets (like California, for example).
8.Pay
honestly, if pay is that much of an issue for you don't come to nyc for residency because you don't make that much more than a resident in a small town and the cost of living is orders of magnitude higher.
PGY-1 $49,603
PGY-2 $51,534
PGY-3 $55,389
PGY-4 $57,216
the amount that gets taken out is based in part on how many exemptions you claim. i'm not great at taxes so perhaps either a google search or professional tax person (H&R Block etc) might give you more/better info.
i hope this helped answer some/all of your questions. good luck with your rank lists and with the match. --sp
1. Nursing:
in the past nursing at jacobi was supposedly very bad. that has changed a lot in recent times. the second years keep saying how much it's improved since their first year and even i've noticed a change for the better in the 7 months i've been here. a lot of new nurses are being hired. a lot of the old school nurses who never did any work are quitting/moving on and being replaced by people who are on top of their stuff.
at monte nursing has never been an issue. the nurses there are some of the best i've worked with (in my limited experience) and are all-round good guys (and gals) in addition to being clinically astute.
one final note about nursing. as an intern, you'll find that you'll go through a 'hazing period' with the nurses at the beginning of your intern year. i don't think this is specific to jacobi. it's more a function of nurses who have been doing their job for years/decades suddenly having to take orders from a green intern. they want to make sure you know what you're talking about before they blindly do what you ask. it lasted a couple of weeks to a month. now, for the most part, they do what i ask and we get along well. also, when i make a mistake they're pretty good about catching it.
2. Other ancillary staff/stuff:
IVs/blood draws - lab'ing and lining a patient traditionally has been the chief's job at jacobi. if things get busy then it's your responsibility to get it done. usually if i ask a nurse to do it it gets done, but if it's really busy i do it myself to save time. also, if it's a hard stick and the nurse can't get it then i grab the US and do it myself, or if i still can't get it then i ask the preattending.
at monte the nurses/techs do the lines/labs. again, if it gets busy or if they can't get it then it's on you.
transport - i've noticed a big change at jacobi since the beginning of intern year. back in the summer, i'd transport all my patients everywhere. lately, i've noticed that the PCA's will transport patients to CT/XR, etc. obviously if you've got a really sick patient then you transport them yourself with a monitor, but for routine stuff the PCA's are doing it.
at monte the techs will transport and are pretty good about it. when it gets busy you do it yourself to get it done faster.
3. Hours:
our academic year is split up into two week blocks, with 26 two week blocks per academic year. also, keep in mind that we are transitioning from a PGY 2-4 format to a PGY 1-4 format. currently, the 3's and 4's trained under the former format and the 1's and 2's under the latter format. this won't change things that much, but it will give us an elective block third year.
@ jacobi -
PGY1 ten 12's/block
PGY2 nine 12's/block
PGY3 six 8's and three 12's/block
PGY4 seven 12's/block
@ monte -
PGY1 ten 12's/block
PGY2 ten 12's/block
PGY3 nine 12's/block
PGY4 eight 12's/block
4. Conference
Conference is Wed's from 9am till noon or 1pm. It isn't "officially" protected, but the scheduling chief does a pretty good job of putting off service rotators (IM, G-surg, OB/GYN, LIJ ED residents) on during conference so you can go. rarely you'll be scheduled to work during conference and then you end up missing it.
5. Living Situation
in my class of 18, 5 of us live in monte/riverdale housing, 1 lives in yonkers, 2 live in the bronx (but not in monte), 1 lives in Harlem, 1 in Washington Heights, and the rest commute from the UES. the commute is a pretty easy one, but since i'm a lazy bastard i live in monte! and even though i live up here in the bronx i still go into the city a couple of times a week and sometimes on my days off i'll go hang out in brooklyn or queens, so you're not isolated just cause you live up here.
6. Negatives
hmm, i really had to think about this because i don't really have anything that sticks out. i guess one negative is that we don't have any international rotations set up, so if you want to do that you have to be proactive and set everything up yourself. a few of the fourth years are still doing them, they just had to set it up for themselves. tom (our PD) actively encourages us to go on international rotations, but the onus is on you to flesh out the details.
i'd say 40% of our patients are either spanish only or bilingual but better spanish speakers but i consider that an asset. some consider that a negative because it's harder to get a good Hx etc.
tom (our PD) has done a good job of addressing the things that used to be considered negatives (nursing etc). i think i've talked about them above.
7. Jobs after residency
this is an abstract concept for me because i'm only an intern, but we've been around 33 years and have alumni pretty much everywhere, so that will help in getting your foot in the door at a lot of places. my knowledge is purely anecdotal based on talking to the fourth years, but nobody is having a hard time finding what they want. if anything, people are saying how hard it is to decide which offer to take. also, people are having no problem whatsoever getting jobs in traditionally difficult markets (like California, for example).
8.Pay
honestly, if pay is that much of an issue for you don't come to nyc for residency because you don't make that much more than a resident in a small town and the cost of living is orders of magnitude higher.
PGY-1 $49,603
PGY-2 $51,534
PGY-3 $55,389
PGY-4 $57,216
the amount that gets taken out is based in part on how many exemptions you claim. i'm not great at taxes so perhaps either a google search or professional tax person (H&R Block etc) might give you more/better info.
i hope this helped answer some/all of your questions. good luck with your rank lists and with the match. --sp
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