JD considering MD

[AnnaNYC]

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Hey,

So I'm a second year associate in "big law" in NYC, making about 200k with about 90k of debt left. I'm 29. And I'm really regretting not going to med school, so I'm considering getting my pre-reqs started and heading back for a career change. I have read several posts in these forums already, and they've been really helpful, but I feel I'm in a slightly atypical situation and it's all a little bewildering. Especially when I consider that I have the law school admissions/trajectory down cold, it's overwhelming how much I don't know about med school. So, apologies for the barrage, but any help you could provide would be great.

1. Are foreign undergrad GPAs counted in any particular way? I want to a school with a grading system/curve that aren't easily transparent. (I did law school as an undergrad, then came to the US and did a JD after.) I'm not sure how it will come out here- it might be as low as a 2.4- but it's also the top 20%, so I don't know how to guage this.

2. How important will my grades from my JD be? What about the fact that I'm working as a lawyer? Reduced expectations for my extracurriculars? Will I just look flighty?

3. Re: Pre-reqs. I don't actually have an English credit- but seven years of law school... does this suffice? In other words, are the pre-reqs suggestions you can deviate from if comparable preparation or are they pretty much set in stone?

4. Does the caliber of school where you do your pre-reqs matter? I know Columbia has a pre-med post bac program, but it's expensive. CUNY is much cheaper. For law school applications, your grades were much, much more important than where you took the classes. Is it the same for med school apps?

5. Are there any pre-med post bac programs that cater to those with full time jobs? (In NYC would be especially appreciated.) I plan on taking evening classes, but my job is currently demanding and unpredictable, hours wise, and I'm worried about not being able to make all my classes. In law school, attendance wasn't a huge deal. What sort of understanding can I expect from professors here.

6. I don't think I'll have time to volunteer/research in addition to practicing. Assuming (big assumption, but I understand the importance) that I do well on both my pre-reqs and MCAT, is admission likely despite these lacunae? What about scholarships? Would I still be in the running?

Thanks in advance. I'm sure some of these answers have already been posted, so I apologize for the redundancy. But I do want to get started in January and I feel like I should probably get more of a handle on things asap. So any help is appreciated.

 

[simondimond]

Hey,

So I'm a second year associate in "big law" in NYC, making about 200k with about 90k of debt left. I'm 29. And I'm really regretting not going to med school, so I'm considering getting my pre-reqs started and heading back for a career change. I have read several posts in these forums already, and they've been really helpful, but I feel I'm in a slightly atypical situation and it's all a little bewildering. Especially when I consider that I have the law school admissions/trajectory down cold, it's overwhelming how much I don't know about med school. So, apologies for the barrage, but any help you could provide would be great.

1. Are foreign undergrad GPAs counted in any particular way? I want to a school with a grading system/curve that aren't easily transparent. (I did law school as an undergrad, then came to the US and did a JD after.) I'm not sure how it will come out here- it might be as low as a 2.4- but it's also the top 20%, so I don't know how to guage this.

2. How important will my grades from my JD be? What about the fact that I'm working as a lawyer? Reduced expectations for my extracurriculars? Will I just look flighty?

3. Re: Pre-reqs. I don't actually have an English credit- but seven years of law school... does this suffice? In other words, are the pre-reqs suggestions you can deviate from if comparable preparation or are they pretty much set in stone?

4. Does the caliber of school where you do your pre-reqs matter? I know Columbia has a pre-med post bac program, but it's expensive. CUNY is much cheaper. For law school applications, your grades were much, much more important than where you took the classes. Is it the same for med school apps?

5. Are there any pre-med post bac programs that cater to those with full time jobs? (In NYC would be especially appreciated.) I plan on taking evening classes, but my job is currently demanding and unpredictable, hours wise, and I'm worried about not being able to make all my classes. In law school, attendance wasn't a huge deal. What sort of understanding can I expect from professors here.

6. I don't think I'll have time to volunteer/research in addition to practicing. Assuming (big assumption, but I understand the importance) that I do well on both my pre-reqs and MCAT, is admission likely despite these lacunae? What about scholarships? Would I still be in the running?

Thanks in advance. I'm sure some of these answers have already been posted, so I apologize for the redundancy. But I do want to get started in January and I feel like I should probably get more of a handle on things asap. So any help is appreciated.

I would stay a lawyer. You're wasting you're time applying to medical school.

Just out of curiosity, why would you want to switch careers?

 

[AnnaNYC]

I would stay a lawyer. You're wasting you're time applying to medical school.

Just out of curiosity, why would you want to switch careers?

It's something I've always wanted to do and this desire intensified after surviving two unrelated cancers within the last decade. It's a powerless thing to know you could die, want to understand everything, want to make informed decisions, and feel lost. For me, law school was by far the path of least resistance, and certainly the financial return of my present career is comparable if not potentially more lucrative (should I make partner) than being a doctorl. But it doesn't give me any professional or personal satisfaction and really, money is not my motivator. I want to be passionate about what I do, feel like my job contributes, and never again feel powerless should I or members of my family get sick.

I'm accepting that your intentions aren't to be unhelpful or dismissive in your response, but, really? You were both. My motivations and ambition for attending medical school or whether I think it would be a good fit are among the few concerns I don't have.

Addressing your highlighting:

1. I'm pretty sure the non-trad board is not the space to pick on someone for being 29 and wanting to go to med school. As far as my debt level, as mentioned, it will be paid off well before I apply to medical school- in fact I should manage to have substantial savings of about 160k (some savings and 401k already) if it takes me the three years I expect to finish my pre-reqs, successfully apply and matriculate.

2. So I don't know much about med school or the med school application process. Isn't the point to find out more about it? Everyone has to start learning about things somewhere. Sorry if I assumed this might be a place to get an insider's supportive perspective.

3. My undergrad GPA is a serious concern for me, but simply asserting that it is a waste of time to apply is not something you've explained. As I mentioned, it was a foreign grading system with a very harsh curve. I received academic honors and the grades didn't stop me from getting into Harvard for my JD, for which GPA/LSAT are by far the most important factors. I then proceeded to do very well at HLS. If med school counts these things differently, yes it's something I need to know about. If my undergrad GPA (not one science course) would really put me out of the running, yes I need that hard truth. But I'm really not sure you've demonstrated that you do know anything about this.

4. Making classes/volunteering. I wanted to find out how important these two pieces were. I have done significant pro bono work (about 200-300 hours per year)- a substantial amount of it even for a children's hospital. But of course, it's not exactly medical in nature. If I need more, this is the perfect time to figure out that I do and go from there. If it's not strictly necessary, I'd like to know that too. As far as attending classes, to be honest, I figured I'd be in big introductory courses where attendance isn't even recorded, let alone important- what matters is performance. If I'm mistaken, this would be exactly the sort of information I'd like to have. This would help me plan my schedule and determine my courseload.

Anyway, sorry for another novel. But I really did expect responses that weren't so dismissive. It's not about not hearing hard truths, but if you're going to tell someone pursuing her dream is "a waste of time" I think it's probably a good idea to a) be sure you're right and b) afford her the courtesy of actually explaining yourself.

 

[briton]

Hey,

So I'm a second year associate in "big law" in NYC, making about 200k with about 90k of debt left. I'm 29. And I'm really regretting not going to med school, so I'm considering getting my pre-reqs started and heading back for a career change. I have read several posts in these forums already, and they've been really helpful, but I feel I'm in a slightly atypical situation and it's all a little bewildering. Especially when I consider that I have the law school admissions/trajectory down cold, it's overwhelming how much I don't know about med school. So, apologies for the barrage, but any help you could provide would be great.

1. Are foreign undergrad GPAs counted in any particular way? I want to a school with a grading system/curve that aren't easily transparent. (I did law school as an undergrad, then came to the US and did a JD after.) I'm not sure how it will come out here- it might be as low as a 2.4- but it's also the top 20%, so I don't know how to guage this.

2. How important will my grades from my JD be? What about the fact that I'm working as a lawyer? Reduced expectations for my extracurriculars? Will I just look flighty?

3. Re: Pre-reqs. I don't actually have an English credit- but seven years of law school... does this suffice? In other words, are the pre-reqs suggestions you can deviate from if comparable preparation or are they pretty much set in stone?

4. Does the caliber of school where you do your pre-reqs matter? I know Columbia has a pre-med post bac program, but it's expensive. CUNY is much cheaper. For law school applications, your grades were much, much more important than where you took the classes. Is it the same for med school apps?

5. Are there any pre-med post bac programs that cater to those with full time jobs? (In NYC would be especially appreciated.) I plan on taking evening classes, but my job is currently demanding and unpredictable, hours wise, and I'm worried about not being able to make all my classes. In law school, attendance wasn't a huge deal. What sort of understanding can I expect from professors here.

6. I don't think I'll have time to volunteer/research in addition to practicing. Assuming (big assumption, but I understand the importance) that I do well on both my pre-reqs and MCAT, is admission likely despite these lacunae? What about scholarships? Would I still be in the running?

Thanks in advance. I'm sure some of these answers have already been posted, so I apologize for the redundancy. But I do want to get started in January and I feel like I should probably get more of a handle on things asap. So any help is appreciated.

You must really love being in debt! However, I understand how it is to be doing something you don't enjoy for a living.

In response to your questions:

1) Foreign coursework is generally not even considered as part of the GPA calculation. In addition, schools will probably require that a certain number of your hours are in a US accredited school (as many as 90 hours for some schools)

2) Schools are generally only concerned with undergraduate hours, at least in so much as they factor into your GPA. In terms of extracurriculars, schools are still going to want to see evidence that you are a well rounded person who gives back to society in some way, such as through volunteering. In addition, some evidence that you know what the medical profession entails is important (some shadowing, for example) As to whether or not you look flighty - not a lot you can do about that, except have an explanation ready for interviews.

3) An English pre-req is just that. I'm wondering how you got into law school without one. It's really a pretty easy credit anyway so just get one when you take the rest of your pre-reqs. Don't apply to any school without the pre-reqs they require or you will be rejected.

4) For the most part, grades are more important than the school. that said, do not take online science courses. I took a lot of evening classes myself and things worked out for me.

5) Not sure about NYC.
A lot of students have to work full time jobs (sometimes two) and go to school full time. If your job doesn't give you the flexibility you need to attend school you may have to find a different job if you are serious about going to med school.

6) I don't think research is essential but I would find time to volunteer if I were you. You should aim to volunteer about 100 hours before submitting your app.

I wish you the best of luck with your plan. Just bear in mind that there are hundreds of other applicants out there who are qualified. If you are lacking in any part of your application there are plenty of others who are not, so don't neglect the small things like volunteering and shadowing. Also, your law degree/career will give you something interesting to talk about at interview but will not necessarily give you any advantage over someone who hasn't been to law school. Look for ways to make yourself stand out as a candidate.

 

[briton]

4. Making classes/volunteering. I wanted to find out how important these two pieces were. I have done significant pro bono work (about 200-300 hours per year)- a substantial amount of it even for a children's hospital. But of course, it's not exactly medical in nature. If I need more, this is the perfect time to figure out that I do and go from there. If it's not strictly necessary, I'd like to know that too.

Volunteering is volunteering, even if not medical in nature so you should be fine. Try to get some medical experience somehow though.

 

[simondimond]

It's something I've always wanted to do and this desire intensified after surviving two unrelated cancers within the last decade. It's a powerless thing to know you could die, want to understand everything, want to make informed decisions, and feel lost. For me, law school was by far the path of least resistance, and certainly the financial return of my present career is comparable if not potentially more lucrative (should I make partner) than being a doctorl. But it doesn't give me any professional or personal satisfaction and really, money is not my motivator. I want to be passionate about what I do, feel like my job contributes, and never again feel powerless should I or members of my family get sick.

I'm accepting that your intentions aren't to be unhelpful or dismissive in your response, but, really? You were both. My motivations and ambition for attending medical school or whether I think it would be a good fit are among the few concerns I don't have.

Addressing your highlighting:

1. I'm pretty sure the non-trad board is not the space to pick on someone for being 29 and wanting to go to med school. As far as my debt level, as mentioned, it will be paid off well before I apply to medical school- in fact I should manage to have substantial savings of about 160k (some savings and 401k already) if it takes me the three years I expect to finish my pre-reqs, successfully apply and matriculate.

2. So I don't know much about med school or the med school application process. Isn't the point to find out more about it? Everyone has to start learning about things somewhere. Sorry if I assumed this might be a place to get an insider's supportive perspective.

3. My undergrad GPA is a serious concern for me, but simply asserting that it is a waste of time to apply is not something you've explained. As I mentioned, it was a foreign grading system with a very harsh curve. I received academic honors and the grades didn't stop me from getting into Harvard for my JD, for which GPA/LSAT are by far the most important factors. I then proceeded to do very well at HLS. If med school counts these things differently, yes it's something I need to know about. If my undergrad GPA (not one science course) would really put me out of the running, yes I need that hard truth. But I'm really not sure you've demonstrated that you do know anything about this.

4. Making classes/volunteering. I wanted to find out how important these two pieces were. I have done significant pro bono work (about 200-300 hours per year)- a substantial amount of it even for a children's hospital. But of course, it's not exactly medical in nature. If I need more, this is the perfect time to figure out that I do and go from there. If it's not strictly necessary, I'd like to know that too. As far as attending classes, to be honest, I figured I'd be in big introductory courses where attendance isn't even recorded, let alone important- what matters is performance. If I'm mistaken, this would be exactly the sort of information I'd like to have. This would help me plan my schedule and determine my courseload.

Anyway, sorry for another novel. But I really did expect responses that weren't so dismissive. It's not about not hearing hard truths, but if you're going to tell someone pursuing her dream is "a waste of time" I think it's probably a good idea to a) be sure you're right and b) afford her the courtesy of actually explaining yourself.

Your decision is your business. I was just saying that it might not be the smartest move to give up a job that pays 200K when you are only 29.

We all have dreams but sometimes we also have to be realistic. If medicine is what you want, then who am I to stop you or discourage you.

I'm 28 and if I was bringing in 200K right now, I would be holding onto that.

"Medicine is only for those people who cannot see themselves doing anything else." I would think about that statement before you proceed any further.

Good Luck.

 

[AnnaNYC]

Hey Briton,

Thanks for your response, which was very helpful. The two small points I wanted to clarify is that 1) I won't be in debt when I start med school and in fact, should be able to pay for a good portion of it (first 2-3 years) without loans and 2) my undergrad degree was a foreign degree. It was also a law degree. It's not as though I went on an exchange or something. I just went straight from high school in the US to law school outside of it (hence no English pre-req). I will take the English course, but I'm hoping my JD work will satisfy the US hours requirement for admission. Otherwise, 90 hours really may be insurmountable. It might be the sort of thing it helps to speak to schools directly about.

Thanks for your help.

 

[AnnaNYC]

Oh last question: I did complete the two English APs in high school (Language/Lit). Do these ever suffice for pre-reqs?

 

[JESSFALLING]

If I were you, I'd work in law at least long enough to pay off my loans and save a few 100K. That would make the transition significantly less stressful for you. Good luck.

 

[Druggernaut]

1. Are foreign undergrad GPAs counted in any particular way? I want to a school with a grading system/curve that aren't easily transparent. (I did law school as an undergrad, then came to the US and did a JD after.) I'm not sure how it will come out here- it might be as low as a 2.4- but it's also the top 20%, so I don't know how to guage this.

2. How important will my grades from my JD be? What about the fact that I'm working as a lawyer? Reduced expectations for my extracurriculars? Will I just look flighty?

3. Re: Pre-reqs. I don't actually have an English credit- but seven years of law school... does this suffice? In other words, are the pre-reqs suggestions you can deviate from if comparable preparation or are they pretty much set in stone?

4. Does the caliber of school where you do your pre-reqs matter? I know Columbia has a pre-med post bac program, but it's expensive. CUNY is much cheaper. For law school applications, your grades were much, much more important than where you took the classes. Is it the same for med school apps?

5. Are there any pre-med post bac programs that cater to those with full time jobs? (In NYC would be especially appreciated.) I plan on taking evening classes, but my job is currently demanding and unpredictable, hours wise, and I'm worried about not being able to make all my classes. In law school, attendance wasn't a huge deal. What sort of understanding can I expect from professors here.

6. I don't think I'll have time to volunteer/research in addition to practicing. Assuming (big assumption, but I understand the importance) that I do well on both my pre-reqs and MCAT, is admission likely despite these lacunae? What about scholarships? Would I still be in the running?

Thanks in advance. I'm sure some of these answers have already been posted, so I apologize for the redundancy. But I do want to get started in January and I feel like I should probably get more of a handle on things asap. So any help is appreciated.

1. I can't speak definitively on how foreign grades are taken into account. I think there's some official body for assessing foreign credits for transfer into the US. If it does come out as a 2.4, you'd have a very long road to rebuilding that, since anything below a 3.0 has basically no shot, and average matriculants are in the 3.5 ballpark. But you say it was in the top 20%, and Harvard was willing to take you, so it seems like it would have to reflect more favorably than a 2.4

2. Your JD grades are taken into account, but less than undergraduate grades. It does count as an extracurricular, but you will need to try to add some others in. And you will need to address jumping ship from law so quickly, and why admissions should believe you won't do the same with medicine.

3. Pre-reqs are set in stone. You'll need the year of english/lit, general chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, and any other additional ones individual schools might toss in.

4. You get a little boost for going somewhere prestigious, but grades are far more important.

5. The formal post-bac programs are mostly going to be expensive and full-time. You'll have much more flexibility applying to a university as someone seeking another degree, then picking up the classes you need in the times you can take them. They'll probably be in big lecture halls with hundreds of other students, so as long as you show up on test days and do well, I don't imagine they'll know or care if you're not there for lecture every day.

6. You'll need to find time to get some clinical exposure. I think you can typically get away with a little less as a non-trad, since you've got other responsibilities to deal with, but you'll probably lose some of this leeway considering that you already went to professional school and are now planning on leaving it. You'll have to demonstrate that this is what you want to do, and just doing well in your classes and on the MCAT may not be enough. The higher the scores, the less you can get away with doing, but you have to find some time to shadow and hopefully do some sort of volunteering that's worthwhile.

 

[JESSFALLING]

Oh last question: I did complete the two English APs in high school (Language/Lit). Do these ever suffice for pre-reqs?

Sometimes. You will have to check with each school of interest to verify their policy. In all cases, though, the AP credit will need to be reflected on your college transcript for it to count.

 

[briton]

1. I can't speak definitively on how foreign grades are taken into account. I think there's some official body for assessing foreign credits for transfer into the US. If it does come out as a 2.4, you'd have a very long road to rebuilding that, since anything below a 3.0 has basically no shot, and average matriculants are in the 3.5 ballpark. But you say it was in the top 20%, and Harvard was willing to take you, so it seems like it would have to reflect more favorably than a 2.4

Having looked at the AMCAS 2012 handbook (p49) it seems as though foreign grades might not factor in unless they are used for transfer credit to a US college. You might want to check this with them though.

The same handbook also addresses the issue of AP credits.

 

[Old Ham]

4. Making classes/volunteering. I wanted to find out how important these two pieces were. I have done significant pro bono work (about 200-300 hours per year)- a substantial amount of it even for a children's hospital. But of course, it's not exactly medical in nature. If I need more, this is the perfect time to figure out that I do and go from there. If it's not strictly necessary, I'd like to know that too. As far as attending classes, to be honest, I figured I'd be in big introductory courses where attendance isn't even recorded, let alone important- what matters is performance. If I'm mistaken, this would be exactly the sort of information I'd like to have. This would help me plan my schedule and determine my courseload.

Pro bono work would have been my top volunteer suggestion. 👍 If you've been practicing for a while, you already have a nice sum of hours. You should still log some time with physicians and patients in a clinical setting though.

As for class attendance, keep in mind that the Big 4 science prereqs (two semesters each of general biology, general chemistry, organic chemistry and physics) all incorporate on-site lab work. In my experience, these labs cannot be made up (though you may be allowed to drop one per term) and you must pass the lab section to pass the overall course.

 

[DrArete]

1. Do you like science? You will have to study it for thousands of hours in excruciating detail. A doctor is a service professional with a science background.

2. Changing to medicine will be a massive financial hit for you, and even if you matched into a ROAD specialty, you would never recover. You have to calculate not only the opportunity cost, but lost investment/asset appreciation, and the cost of medical school. For you, this would easily come to a couple million dollars.

3. Being a big law associate sucks. Being a med student/intern/resident will suck just as bad if not worse at times.

My advice, unless you really love science, is for you to stick it out for at least a couple more years in big law and pay off your debts and save. Then, you can either leverage your big law experience to get a great federal job, or you can go to work in the non profit world where your skill set will be highly valued, or you can take stock of where you are in your firm and if you are on track to make partner you can stay and become rich.

 

[TriagePreMed]

If you want to be a doctor, you can become a doctor. However, should you become a doctor? That's an important question. As of now, I see that having had cancer and feeling powerless were your motivations. I also see you want to know in case a family member is sick. What are you going to do when your specialty doesn't treat the illness of a family member? Jump ship and do a new residency?

Being a doctor is more than just raw knowledge of health. It's a lifestyle unlike any other. before you make the decision to move into this new career path, I suggest you talk to doctors and shadow some doctors. Dropping 200k a year is not something to take lightly, nor is it wise for you to be working full time as an attorney and taking classes on top of that.

Please take the time to understand if you'll be happy doing this. Apparently you did not take the time to do that when you went to law school... twice.

The minimum prerequisites are:

8 units of Biology
8 units of General Chemistry
8 units of Organic Chemistry
8 units of Physics.
--
32 units total. Some schools make these 5 unit courses each, so 10 for each for a total of 40 units.

Some schools will require:

6 units of English
6 units of behavioral sciences
3 units of biochemistry
3 units of genetics/other upper division bio.
--
0 to 18 units total.

---
32 to 58 units total.

Because you have a foreign degree, you might be required 90 units.

 

[yankswin2011]

From a rational financial standpoint, it doesn't make much sense, even if you don't make partner, you'll have a lot of great options that will pay you decent 6-figures for the rest of your life, particularly coming from Harvard Law School....

However, like others have pointed out, trying to balance the Big Law hours while doing the coursework (including labs, which are mandatory) is going to be tough, but since you did get into Harvard Law School, I would assume that you are a very determined individual. My only worry is that if you're doing litigation and there's a big trial, I'm not sure if you can simply skip work and go to labs...same with corporate work if there's a "closing." So yeah, it's basically like having a life where you work crazy hours but then go home and still try to study for the Bar exam but for the next 2-3 years....then, on top of that, you need to do volunteering/shadowing to prove that you know what you're getting into.. it's not like law school where it's mostly LSAT + GPA. But I guess if you do end up getting 45 on the MCAT and a high GPA -- you probably will get in because you'll be "unique" -- to be honest, I'm not sure if there was ever a Harvard Law Student that ended up going to medical school -- maybe it's common the other way around -- so you might make history...

I can tell already that you're a very determined individual and no one on this Board will stop you...you will probably get in....but from a rational financial standpoint, it's a risky venture, but it's your life and more power to you to do what you want....at the end of the day, we regret more in life for the chances we don't take so go for it and live life with no regrets (even if it means being financially risky)....Good luck!

 

[TriagePreMed]

I didn't read the part of unpredictable hours. If this is the case, pre-med will not work for you. Either find a predictable job or quit all together to focus on the pre-med world. I doubt professors, especially lab professors, will be willing to deal with your problems because it creates problems for them. Given that so many students are struggling to get classes, anyone with a good reason to keep off the class is good news for the next student. And at minimum shadowing will be expected so you can prove you know what you're getting into.

 

[Didntdoit]

I have a question. Given the short life span of a law firm associate, is your position there in any jeopardy in the short term future?

If you are making 200k, live like a pauper and pay those loans off ASAP. Then, you can consider switching to med.

 

[QofQuimica]

It's something I've always wanted to do and this desire intensified after surviving two unrelated cancers within the last decade. It's a powerless thing to know you could die, want to understand everything, want to make informed decisions, and feel lost. For me, law school was by far the path of least resistance, and certainly the financial return of my present career is comparable if not potentially more lucrative (should I make partner) than being a doctorl. But it doesn't give me any professional or personal satisfaction and really, money is not my motivator. I want to be passionate about what I do, feel like my job contributes, and never again feel powerless should I or members of my family get sick.

It's awe-inspiring that you are a cancer survivor x2, but this is not a good reason to go to medical school. The farther along you get in this process, the *more* you realize how powerless we are in the face of many serious illnesses. Not to sound all gloom and doom, because we can do more to help people now than we have ever been able to do for all of history up to this point. But this is not Star Trek where we waive our tricorders over people with terminal illnesses and make them better. I can't stop my dad from developing dementia no matter how good of a doctor I am. You won't be able to stop your family members from getting seriously ill and/or dying by going to medical school either.

Clinical experience of some type is an absolute must, and giving applicants a more realistic view of this career is exactly the reason why. Working in medicine in any capacity is tough on many levels, and it's not for everyone. If you're serious about going to medical school, then you need to start at the beginning, because worrying about prereqs and medical school logistics is premature before you get to a point where you've spent enough time looking at things from a physician's side to figure out if you want to go down this path. Being a patient does give you a unique perspective on the health care system, and I'm not at all meaning to dismiss that. But having been on both sides of that equation, I can tell you that it ain't the same.

I suggest that you start by spending some time shadowing and/or volunteering in a medical setting. It's not true that you are "too busy" to do this; if it matters to you, then you will make the time. An hour or two per week over a period of several months (ideally over a year) is sufficient.

As for your other questions, most if not all are answered in previous threads. You should try doing a search for "law" and/or "lawyer," and you will find several threads by other lawyers who have considered changing or have already changed careers. You can also find links to many useful threads in the FAQs sticky at the top of this forum. Hope this helps, and best of luck.

 

[AnnaNYC]

Thanks for all your feedback. This forum has given me a lot to think about and I do appreciate it.

I think everyone was right in advising me to be generally cautious and look into things more- not to do anything financially rash or professionally ill-considered. But I haven't lost any appreciation for the fact that it's a minimum of two years before I even apply to medical school. I am very much at the beginning. And while I want to make sure I don't make any mistakes now that would limit my future options, I fully realize that at some point it may become clear that med school is not practical for me. And I'm not stubborn just for the sake of being stubborn. If at any point med school looks like something I can bring myself not to do, I'll rethink things.

But thanks for the help at this juncture. And my plan is to take a class or two next semester - easy ones like those I already have AP credits in (oh so long ago), to see whether I can manage things.

Anyway, thanks again. And I'll probably be back for more directed advice as I work through this 🙂

 

[Law2Doc]

Here's the deal. 1. You won't be able to do well in post bac if you aren't able to attend regularly. If your job is too unpredictable, you may have to make other plans. 2. You must must must have clinical exposure through shadowing/volunteering or med schools won't look at you. It's a nonstarter. 3. A lot of places require English courses as the english requirement few will waive it just because you worked in a writing intensive path. A lot of us who transitioned from big law to medicine found it impossible to keep working full time during the postbac years. Start with some weekend volunteering and see if you even are going to like it first before starting on this path.

 

[Enkidu]

Hey,

2. How important will my grades from my JD be? What about the fact that I'm working as a lawyer? Reduced expectations for my extracurriculars? Will I just look flighty?

I'm not sure why everyone here is emphasizing extracurriculars. Can you write down 10 interesting things about yourself? Volunteering is just a way for people to be able to say something interesting about themselves, because they're 21 years old and haven't done anything in their lives.

3. Re: Pre-reqs. I don't actually have an English credit- but seven years of law school... does this suffice? In other words, are the pre-reqs suggestions you can deviate from if comparable preparation or are they pretty much set in stone?

I doubt this will ever come up. You definitely need the science credits, but I wouldn't worry about the english. Email some schools if you're really concerned, but I predict no problem.

6. I don't think I'll have time to volunteer/research in addition to practicing. Assuming (big assumption, but I understand the importance) that I do well on both my pre-reqs and MCAT, is admission likely despite these lacunae? What about scholarships? Would I still be in the running?

Volunteering is overrated. That pro-bono stuff will be perfect.

By the way, "do medicine only if you can't imagine yourself doing anything else...", that's pretty much garbage. Medicine is just something you can do if you're interested. It takes a lot of hours, but probably not different from practicing law.

As far as wanting to feel like you're making a contribution... I'm not sure that you'll feel more altruistic in medicine than you would in law. The process of medical education tends to make people pretty jaded, and I'm not sure you will actually feel all that altruistic at the end. I would suggest to only go into medicine if you find the material actually interesting.

My sense is that you can go to medical school if you want. You may not be able to work through the post-bacc, but just save up a little money and rent a little apartment for a year, no big deal. I wouldn't listen to naysayers, but I would make sure that you really know what you're getting into and that you will actually enjoy it. It would be pretty awful to find yourself in the same position after medical school...

 

[simondimond]

By the way, "do medicine only if you can't imagine yourself doing anything else...", that's pretty much garbage. Medicine is just something you can do if you're interested. It takes a lot of hours, but probably not different from practicing law.

I can't believe those words came from an MD student.

 

[yankswin2011]

Look, Having no english pre-reqs fpr someone who graduated from harvard law school is not going to be a problem, that's like saying someone who served im the military is not qualified to become a cop because he didnt take some stupid intro course taught by a graduate student.....

 

[Law2Doc]

Look, Having no english pre-reqs fpr someone who graduated from harvard law school is not going to be a problem, that's like saying someone who served im the military is not qualified to become a cop because he didnt take some stupid intro course taught by a graduate student.....

Um no, it's like saying you aren't going to be able to become a cop because you didn't have the necessary prereqs to go to the police academy. It's not about how much you know from other circumstances -- there are hurdles we all must jump through. I had the same issue when I was a practicing lawyer trying to go to med school. Most of the med schools were very rigid about following their prereq requirements to the letter, even though I made the very same argument about the English requirement that is being made here. Schools don't want there to be flexibility in entrance requirements. Once they start having to decide who already has enough English and who doesn't, they create a lot more work for themselves, because anyone with an advanced degree, a lot of publications or good life experience is going to want to start arguing that certain "requirements" shouldn't apply to them. So schools simply refuse to play that game, and requirements are simply requirements, period, no exceptions.

 

[Priorities]

Um no, it's like saying you aren't going to be able to become a cop because you didn't have the necessary prereqs to go to the police academy. It's not about how much you know from other circumstances -- there are hurdles we all must jump through. I had the same issue when I was a practicing lawyer trying to go to med school. Most of the med schools were very rigid about following their prereq requirements to the letter, even though I made the very same argument about the English requirement that is being made here. Schools don't want there to be flexibility in entrance requirements. Once they start having to decide who already has enough English and who doesn't, they create a lot more work for themselves, because anyone with an advanced degree, a lot of publications or good life experience is going to want to start arguing that certain "requirements" shouldn't apply to them. So schools simply refuse to play that game, and requirements are simply requirements, period, no exceptions.

I am also a lawyer who is contemplating medical school, and I asked the University of Minnesota medical school if they would waive the English requirement based on my prior law school degree (with undergraduate work done in Sweden), and at least the UofM is willing to do so. So, I would ask the specific institution.

 

[kidthor]

Prereqs are always an annoying but necessary hoop for those of us in a non-traditional route. In undergrad I took a bunch of bioengineering classes which were entirely equivalent to many biology classes. I called several schools to see whether they'd count these toward my year of bio, and some would, some wouldn't. Ultimately I just took a proper biology class to make sure I was all set. The last thing you'd want is to apply to a number of schools, only to have them exclude your application on a technicality.

Nonetheless, it seems like most if not all schools would count a year of legal research and writing toward the english requirement... You should call a number of schools to see what they say.

I agree with Law2Doc regarding prereqs and shadowing/volunteering though. It's a nonstarter to not have shadowed/volunteered in a hospital. Pro-bono alone isn't going to cut it. That, and it'll be impossible to juggle full time legal work with your prereqs... even if you can figure it out time-wise, you'll still put yourself in danger of underperforming in some very, very crucial classes.

I'd start now with medical volunteering and/or shadowing to see if this is really what you want to do. (IMO shadowing is much more useful in determining whether this is what you want to do. If you can find a MD/JD in NYC - which I'm sure you can - they might be most willing and useful in this endeavor).

If you then are still driven toward medicine, you should do a formal post-bacc. Such a program would get you through all the classes you need, and would provide the advising you need. Plus, many have formal and informal linkages with med school. For example, check out the Bryn Mawr program.

 

[kidthor]

2. How important will my grades from my JD be? What about the fact that I'm working as a lawyer? Reduced expectations for my extracurriculars? Will I just look flighty?

The importance of law school grades is a mixed bag. My grades were exactly at the median for my law school. I had one admissions director ask me why my "law school grades were so low." Others were impressed. Whatever the case, the BCPM GPA is far, far, FAR more important. If you have at decently average-ish (or better) grades at a top law school, you'll be fine.