John Jay Clinical Forensic Doctoral Program

[compassionate1]

Hello,

It has been several years since I posted here last.

I am currently working as a clinician, MHC LP and also an adjunct psychology instructor.

Several months ago I got accepted into one of CUNY's doctoral subprograms in Psychology. ( Full tuition remission and a stipend).

Recently, due to the anticipated restructuring of the doctoral system at the Graduate Center I started considering switching to another "training area" / subprogram ( Students who got accepted before the restructuring are given the option of either staying in the subprogram they got admitted into or changing to one of the new suggested subprograms).

I am considering John Jay clinical forensic program and am wondering if anyone here is a current or past student and would be willing to communicate via PM.

Also, I am aware of the accreditation situation. Just checked APA site and John Jay's Status is listed as "Under Review" ( They just applied this past May).

Any idea approximately how long does it take the APA to review a program before an accreditation decision is made?

Many thanks in advance for any pertinent information anyone is able to offer.

Kind regards,

Compassionate1

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[ForensicPsych26]

Hello -- I cannot speak directly of the John Jay program, but I am at The Chicago School of Professional Psychology's Clinical Forensic Program and what we've been told from APA is that they will not accredit any program that is not clinical, counseling, or educational. Additionally, they explained that due to our name being Clinical Forensic, this means we cannot apply for APA accreditation. Currently, there are many individuals trying to get a fourth tier of APA (specifically police psychology) where forensic psychology would fall under. Hope this helps. I have friends in my program who did their masters at John Jay and loved it!

 

[erg923]

Hello -- I cannot speak directly of the John Jay program, but I am at The Chicago School of Professional Psychology's Clinical Forensic Program and what we've been told from APA is that they will not accredit any program that is not clinical, counseling, or educational. Additionally, they explained that due to our name being Clinical Forensic, this means we cannot apply for APA accreditation. Currently, there are many individuals trying to get a fourth tier of APA (specifically police psychology) where forensic psychology would fall under. Hope this helps. I have friends in my program who did their masters at John Jay and loved it!

Doesn't this make you ineligible for well over half the sites in the APPIC internship match? I know it makes you ineligible for BOP sites, right? Since most prisons/jails and forensic hopsitals are run my government entities, I would think pretty much all of them would require applicants come from APA accreditted programs, no?

 

[compassionate1]

Hello -- I cannot speak directly of the John Jay program, but I am at The Chicago School of Professional Psychology's Clinical Forensic Program and what we've been told from APA is that they will not accredit any program that is not clinical, counseling, or educational. Additionally, they explained that due to our name being Clinical Forensic, this means we cannot apply for APA accreditation. Currently, there are many individuals trying to get a fourth tier of APA (specifically police psychology) where forensic psychology would fall under. Hope this helps. I have friends in my program who did their masters at John Jay and loved it!

Hi there! Thanks for your feedbak. Just wondering then why would John Jay be under review by APA ( if the rules do not permit it?)

Compassionate1

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Hi there! Thanks for your feedbak. Just wondering then why would John Jay be under review by APA ( if the rules do not permit it?)

Compassionate1

Any program can apply for APA acred. If they presume to meet the outlined standards, but it is a multi-step and pretty comprehensive review. There have been formal "forensic psychology" programs seek APA-acred before, and all of them failed to attain it. I believe the primary sticking point was the narrow focus and lack of solid generalist training. John Jay has a good reputation when it comes to forensic work, but it is akin to a university trying o have a Psychiatrist Medical School that only does psychiatry, but not the same foundation in medicine. It would/should never be approved because a psychiatrist is a physician irst, and then a specialist; the same is true for clinical psychology and specialty practice.

 

[compassionate1]

Any program can apply for APA acred. If they presume to meet the outlined standards, but it is a multi-step and pretty comprehensive review. There have been formal "forensic psychology" programs seek APA-acred before, and all of them failed to attain it. I believe the primary sticking point was the narrow focus and lack of solid generalist training. John Jay has a good reputation when it comes to forensic work, but it is akin to a university trying o have a Psychiatrist Medical School that only does psychiatry, but not the same foundation in medicine. It would/should never be approved because a psychiatrist is a physician irst, and then a specialist; the same is true for clinical psychology and specialty practice.

Hi Therapist4Change: Thanks for explaining this. I found out this week that I would not be able to transfer from the subprogram I got accepted to into the forensic one and have made peace with it. Onward and forward!

 

[ForensicPsych26]

Doesn't this make you ineligible for well over half the sites in the APPIC internship match? I know it makes you ineligible for BOP sites, right? Since most prisons/jails and forensic hospitals are run my government entities, I would think pretty much all of them would require applicants come from APA accredited programs, no?

It does not make us inelgible...it will be difficult, I don't doubt that...but does not directly disqualify the student. BOPs will accept those from non-acc. sites, I believe this last year Taraho accepted someone as well as a BOP site in Virgina. Many of the internship directors I've spoken with are interested in our program and the specialized degree. As you've stated, many of them do require the APA accreditation; however, there are sites willing to review our applications, interview, and hire us for Internship. I believe another program has begun the steps/process to add a fourth tier on the APA accreditation (so it would be Clinical, Counseling, Educational, and Police Psychology) and our program would fall under Police Psychology (if that's the name they choose to keep). I have not heard an update with respect to the progress of this endeavor.

 

[CSOPP]

There are some BOP sites that may consider a non-APA accredited program applicant, although it is very rare. Additionally, most of these students come from non-APA clinical programs, not forensic programs. More importantly, however, is that even though these students get an internship, they cannot be hired by the BOP. So getting an internship is great, but if you can't be employed by them, what's the point?

Also, it's Terre Haute, not Taraho. Seriously.

 

[busybusybusy]

BOPs will accept those from non-acc. sites, I believe this last year Taraho accepted someone as well as a BOP site in Virgina.

Just so everyone has the knowledge:

BOP will accept people from non accredited programs at their non accredited sites such as the Petersburg one in Virginia and Terre Haute that were mentioned. This is done because the sites as still going through their accreditation process. They will not take people from non accredited programs at their accredited sites, an frankly don't need to as their is plenty of competition for these sites. Also, even if you do complete an internship at a BOP site when coming from a non accredited program they still can't and won't hire you as you MUST have attended an APA accredited program to be hired by them.

 

[erg923]

Also, even if you do complete an internship at a BOP site when coming from a non accredited program they still can't and won't hire you as you MUST have attended an APA accredited program to be hired by them.

That was kinda my point. You cant work there. And, anecdotally, the people I've met from these program are all about working for the government man (although I don't quite understand the enthusiasm). If that's your goal, then choosing to an unaccredited non-clinical program seems like a very unwise decision to get you to that end.

 

[ForensicPsych26]

There are some BOP sites that may consider a non-APA accredited program applicant, although it is very rare. Additionally, most of these students come from non-APA clinical programs, not forensic programs. More importantly, however, is that even though these students get an internship, they cannot be hired by the BOP. So getting an internship is great, but if you can't be employed by them, what's the point?

Also, it's Terre Haute, not Taraho. Seriously.

Okay...no need to be rude, jesus.

 

[compassionate1]

Hi There!

What kind of settings, other than prisons, do forensic internships take place at?

Thanks,
Compassionate1

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Hi There!

What kind of settings, other than prisons, do forensic internships take place at?

Thanks,
Compassionate1

I've seen forensically-oriented tracks at community mental health hospitals/clinics, for one. There of course generally has to be some type of relationship with nearby forensic facilities, though.

 

[paramour]

State hospitals also frequently note "forensic tracks" in their publication materials.

As AA mentioned, I've seen some random forensically-leaning tracks at CMHCs, hospitals, and other various facilities (even a few VAs!) but they typically indicate a strong relationship with other forensic facilities in the local area. Additionally, with some of these, it's only a small component of more generalist training, so make sure that you're attending to the details for what you need/want out of your training experience.

 

[compassionate1]

Thanks AA and Paramour.

 

[Psycho732]

Hi There!

What kind of settings, other than prisons, do forensic internships take place at?

Thanks,
Compassionate1

Hi! I'm in the process of applying to forensic internships. These two are right, although I'm pretty much applying to prisons and state hospitals. Whether you're looking to do forensic evaluations or treatment in a forensic setting, will dictate which type of internship you'll lean more toward.
Also, I received my MA in forensic psych from John Jay and I'm now finishing my PsyD in Clinical from elsewhere. There are many reasons why I chose this route and quite frankly I'm glad I did.
I am continuing training in forensics without the PhD in forensics. Feel free to PM me with any questions, or if you're looking for some direction. 🙂

 

[NotTheHoff]

John Jay's program has evolved from a pure forensic psychology program in Year 1 to a clinical forensic psychology program to now a clinical psychology program w/ forensic specialization. It's a research-heavy scientist-practitioner program. The early semesters of courses and practica are purely clinical, with forensic components gradually integrated in later semesters. Research is primarily focused on forensic issues.

 

[eudaimonPsyD]

I believe another program has begun the steps/process to add a fourth tier on the APA accreditation (so it would be Clinical, Counseling, Educational, and Police Psychology) and our program would fall under Police Psychology (if that's the name they choose to keep). I have not heard an update with respect to the progress of this endeavor.

I know this is a little late to the party, but I am very interested to hear the argument as to why creating a Police Psychology tier would automatically make way for forensic programs to be accredited. Wouldn't this only make way for police psychology programs? A forensic degree that emphasizes correctional psychology or forensic evaluations would seem to me as rather inapplicable to someone going into police psychology. But perhaps they are granting the definition of "police" a great deal of leniency??

 

[histerical]

Any program can apply for APA acred. If they presume to meet the outlined standards, but it is a multi-step and pretty comprehensive review. There have been formal "forensic psychology" programs seek APA-acred before, and all of them failed to attain it. I believe the primary sticking point was the narrow focus and lack of solid generalist training. John Jay has a good reputation when it comes to forensic work, but it is akin to a university trying o have a Psychiatrist Medical School that only does psychiatry, but not the same foundation in medicine. It would/should never be approved because a psychiatrist is a physician irst, and then a specialist; the same is true for clinical psychology and specialty practice.

Agreed. I'm getting a PsyD in Clinical Psychology at a professional school that offers a forensic "track" and we are APA-accredited. The reasoning, according to a professor of mine: "You should be a clinical psychologist first and a forensic psychologist second."