Just a D.O. - How would you react?

[Starry]

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Overheard today.....🙁

"Did you know that Dr. So-and-so has a blog?"
"Really? Let me see."
"Look at this - she's not even an M.D.!"
"No?"
"She's just a D.O.!"
"And she's a pathologist? I didn't know D.O.s could become pathologists."

-----------------------
I overheard this at work today and was compelled to react to it. As an undergraduate administrative intern, I didn't dare correct them. But incidents like this are what inspire me to write. Continue reading on my blog.
​

I just wanted to share this with all you pre-osteo people. I didn't dare say anything. If I were braver I would have explained what D.O.s are and how they are "real doctors." But if you overheard this, what would you do?

 

[Anicetus]

Overheard today.....🙁

"Did you know that Dr. So-and-so has a blog?"
"Really? Let me see."
"Look at this - she's not even an M.D.!"
"No?"
"She's just a D.O.!"
"And she's a pathologist? I didn't know D.O.s could become pathologists."

-----------------------
I overheard this at work today and was compelled to react to it. As an undergraduate administrative intern, I didn't dare correct them. But incidents like this are what inspire me to write. Continue reading on my blog.
​

I just wanted to share this with all you pre-osteo people. I didn't dare say anything. If I were braver I would have explained what D.O.s are and how they are "real doctors." But if you overheard this, what would you do?

I would've gone about my daily life.

I've heard a lot including "I would never want a DO to do surgery on me." to "Aren't DO's just less smart than MDs?" From patients haha.

It's just the general public view.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

So... Snot noses kids undervaluing the credentials of a practicing physician. Sorry but ain't nobody got time to pay mind.

 

[costales]

Why waste time with the willfully ignorant? Just wish the superior beings every success so they can work in a DO-free environment (and not get in an accident which might necessitate their ass being saved by a DO).

 

[Anicetus]

Starry, I saw your blog.

Although this has been discussed to death, it basically comes down to the fact that DO schools are easier to get into than like 95% of MD schools which sort of originates a slight discrimination.

It is like comparing the Ivies to state universities. Both are great and credible, but ivies always get that full appraisal in the general public mind.

But, let's be honest with ourselves, if this is the worst issue in our lives, we are ****ing lucky.

 

[Starry]

I would've gone about my daily life.

I've heard a lot including "I would never want a DO to do surgery on me." to "Aren't DO's just less smart than MDs?" From patients haha.

It's just the general public view.

So... Snot noses kids undervaluing the credentials of a practicing physician. Sorry but ain't nobody got time to pay mind.

These people work in the hospital with physicians on a daily basis. Granted, they aren't front-end healthcare workers; they are administrative IT maintenance people. Still, since they've worked there a while and review patients records every day, you'd think they would know better. And they aren't kids; they are all 30+ y.o.

If no one ever speaks up, then how will people ever learn, even one-by-one, that a D.O. is, indeed, a real doctor? 😕 If you make it into med school and graduate, would you ever correct someone in the future?

Starry, I saw your blog.

Although this has been discussed to death, it basically comes down to the fact that DO schools are easier to get into than like 95% of MD schools which sort of originates a slight discrimination.

It is like comparing the Ivies to state universities. Both are great and credible, but ivies always get that full appraisal in the general public mind.

But, let's be honest with ourselves, if this is the worst issue in our lives, we are ****ing lucky.

lol ikr. I'm just curious what you guys would do, cause I'd feel hella awkward if/when I actually became a med student/D.O. and overheard someone saying that.

 

[cliquesh]

It happens sometimes. I wouldn't really worry about it. Some patients and some doctors will always think D.Os are dumb or fake doctors. Not many, but some.

If you are competitive for MD schools, as you state in your blog, I'd implore you to apply to them.

 

[NeuroLAX]

These people work in the hospital with physicians on a daily basis. Granted, they aren't front-end healthcare workers; they are administrative IT maintenance people. Still, since they've worked there a while and review patients records every day, you'd think they would know better. And they aren't kids; they are all 30+ y.o.

If no one ever speaks up, then how will people ever learn, even one-by-one, that a D.O. is, indeed, a real doctor? 😕 If you make it into med school and graduate, would you ever correct someone in the future?

Interesting that you say this, yet you didn't confront ignorance when you heard it. Ignorance perpetuates ignorance. Just because you correct someone does not mean you have to be an ass to get your point across. Being an overly defensive jerk detracts from your goal of correction. DO politely correct them and simply explain to them why they are wrong. DO NOT overreact and make an ass of yourself.

Yes, I would correct someone who makes comments like this. Politely.

 

[pattr]

Is this so surprising? This happens all the time... nothing new.

But yeah try and correct them politely next time ("Actually... I'm applying to DO schools and..."), see how they react. I think it's mainly just ignorance and not mal-intentioned.

 

[Bill Brasky]

It depends. How much does a DO's paycheck get docked every time some ignorant person makes a stupid comment?

 

[Starry]

Interesting that you say this, yet you didn't confront ignorance when you heard it. Ignorance perpetuates ignorance. Just because you correct someone does not mean you have to be an ass to get your point across. Being an overly defensive jerk detracts from your goal of correction. DO politely correct them and simply explain to them why they are wrong. DO NOT overreact and make an ass of yourself.

Yes, I would correct someone who makes comments like this. Politely.

I wasn't brave enough and just kept my head down and minded my own business. I'm just a lowly undergraduate intern :cry:

It happens sometimes. I wouldn't really worry about it. Some patients and some doctors will always think D.Os are dumb or fake doctors. Not many, but some.

If you are competitive for MD schools, as you state in your blog, I'd implore you to apply to them.

Why, if I'm (almost) completely committed to D.O.? Applying to M.D. schools as "backup?" I think my GPA + MCAT are okay, but I haven't done much research. I'm more motivated to attend any D.O. school than M.D. Maybe I'm making a mistake, but it's a mistake that I can live with. If I make it into my #1, I'm willing to give up a lot to go there.

Maybe I'll be singing a different tune in 4 years 😳 I sincerely hope not.

Is this so surprising? This happens all the time... nothing new.

But yeah try and correct them politely next time ("Actually... I'm applying to DO schools and..."), see how they react. I think it's mainly just ignorance and not mal-intentioned.

I didn't hear it while shadowing, I didn't hear it while volunteering. This is my first time hearing it and it took me off guard. I like your approach though - maybe I'll use it if I get another chance. 🙂

 

[DrEnderW]

I agree that it's not malicious, but mostly ignorance.

I didn't realize my own doctors were all DOs until I was getting ready to apply. The AOA does a horrendous, truly just awful job at promoting DOs (the iOS app is a step in the right direction at least 😀)

It makes sense that a lot of people don't understand what is going on and what exactly the degree confers. It's the job of DOs and future DOs to explain what the degree is and what the distinctions are. Once this is explained to people, it is usually met with only the most positive response. It's easily explained that there are top surgeons, physicians for professional sports teams, past surgeon general of army, white house doctors, etc, etc that are DOs.

 

[cliquesh]

Why, if I'm (almost) completely committed to D.O.? Applying to M.D. schools as "backup?" I think my GPA + MCAT are okay, but I haven't done much research. I'm more motivated to attend any D.O. school than M.D. Maybe I'm making a mistake, but it's a mistake that I can live with. If I make it into my #1, I'm willing to give up a lot to go there.

Maybe I'll be singing a different tune in 4 years 😳 I sincerely hope not.

There is very little that is unique to DO schools, except OMM. The holistic philosophy is taught by every institution now a days, so that, in itself, is not a good reason to choose a DO school over an MD school. Choosing a DO school is fine if the DO school is closer to your family/friends or it is cheaper. Other than those reasons, I cannot think of another logical reason to choose a DO school over an MD school. You are basically choosing to place yourself at a disadvantage for no reason. If you want to do family medicine you can disregard what I have said.

I only applied to DO schools 4 years ago and there are times that I regret that decision. It all worked out fine in the end, though, and I'm happy with my current situation.

Hope you applied to Tcom. It's probably the best DO school.

 

[Temperature101]

Wow... These threads have been popping up a lot on the DO forum lately. I have a few years working in healthcare and never seen such stuff...

 

[Temperature101]

There is very little that is unique to DO schools, except OMM. The holistic philosophy is taught by every institution now a days, so that, in itself, is not a good reason to choose a DO school over an MD school. Choosing a DO school is fine if the DO school is closer to your family/friends or it is cheaper. Other than those reasons, I cannot think of another logical reason to choose a DO school over an MD school. You are basically choosing to place yourself at a disadvantage for no reason. If you want to do family medicine you can disregard what I have said.
I only applied to DO schools 4 years ago and there are times that I regret that decision. It all worked out fine in the end, though, and I'm happy with my current situation.

Hope you applied to Tcom. It's probably the best DO school.

How about IM, pediatry, psychiatry, PM&R, EM?

 

[pattr]

Why, if I'm (almost) completely committed to D.O.? Applying to M.D. schools as "backup?" I think my GPA + MCAT are okay, but I haven't done much research. I'm more motivated to attend any D.O. school than M.D. Maybe I'm making a mistake, but it's a mistake that I can live with. If I make it into my #1, I'm willing to give up a lot to go there.

I agree with what cliquesh said above.

It really depends on you. If you're truly interested in learning OMM and using it on your patients in the future, then you should definitely go osteopathic, because that is where you'll get that training. Not to say that MD's can't learn OMM too, but we have the advantage in that department. But if you really want to match in a highly competitive field or residency program, DO might not be for you.

That being said, I do think you should apply both DO and MD and simply decide later once the time comes (after interviews, etc) and if your preference still leans DO, then by all means go DO. But *especially* because you live in a state with heavy in-state preference for admissions you should apply to both.

 

[cliquesh]

How about IM, pediatry, psychiatry, PM&R, EM?

PM&R you'll probably be fine as a DO. When I say fine, I mean there is little disadvantage as a DO when applying to PM&R. I'd probably say the same thing about anesthesia.

Next would be psychiatry. Many good places will take DOs for psych, but many of the top places won't. Some will, though.

Being a DO will hurt you for IM and/or peds. IM and peds, at good places, is very competitive and they don't like DOs very much at these places. You'll likely match at a middle tier program, at best, and probably a lower tier place.

EM is probably slightly more friendly than IM, but being a DO will nevertheless put you at a disadvantage.

Just to be clear, if you don't care where you do you're training, like you're not interested in doing a fellowship, then it's not a big deal; you'll be fine. There is, however, a significant difference training at a small community program and a large university hospital.

 

[Starry]

Wow... These threads have been popping up a lot on the DO forum lately. I have a few years working in healthcare and never seen such stuff...

Might depend on where you live? 😛

I agree with what cliquesh said above.

It really depends on you. If you're truly interested in learning OMM and using it on your patients in the future, then you should definitely go osteopathic, because that is where you'll get that training. Not to say that MD's can't learn OMM too, but we have the advantage in that department. But if you really want to match in a highly competitive field or residency program, DO might not be for you.

That being said, I do think you should apply both DO and MD and simply decide later once the time comes (after interviews, etc) and if your preference still leans DO, then by all means go DO. But *especially* because you live in a state with heavy in-state preference for admissions you should apply to both.

There is very little that is unique to DO schools, except OMM. The holistic philosophy is taught by every institution now a days, so that, in itself, is not a good reason to choose a DO school over an MD school. Choosing a DO school is fine if the DO school is closer to your family/friends or it is cheaper. Other than those reasons, I cannot think of another logical reason to choose a DO school over an MD school. You are basically choosing to place yourself at a disadvantage for no reason. If you want to do family medicine you can disregard what I have said.

I only applied to DO schools 4 years ago and there are times that I regret that decision. It all worked out fine in the end, though, and I'm happy with my current situation.

Hope you applied to Tcom. It's probably the best DO school.

I do have my TMDSAS filled out. Not yet submitted though. 🙁 You guys are right, I need to be less stubborn and spread my eggs out into more baskets. So I should probably submit it ASAP.

 

[NontradCA]

PM&R you'll probably be fine as a DO. When I say fine, I mean there is little disadvantage as a DO when applying to PM&R. I'd probably say the same thing about anesthesia.

Didn't you match Anesthesia? You said that you were disadvantaged with 90th % stats.

 

[pattr]

PM&R you'll probably be fine as a DO. When I say fine, I mean there is little disadvantage as a DO when applying to PM&R. I'd probably say the same thing about anesthesia.

Next would be psychiatry. Many good places will take DOs for psych, but many of the top places won't. Some will, though.

Being a DO will hurt you for IM and/or peds. IM and peds, at good places, is very competitive and they don't like DOs very much at these places. You'll likely match at a middle tier program, at best, and probably a lower tier place.

EM is probably slightly more friendly than IM, but being a DO will nevertheless put you at a disadvantage.

Just to be clear, if you don't care where you do you're training, like you're not interested in doing a fellowship, then it's not a big deal; you'll be fine. There is, however, a significant difference training at a small community program and a large university hospital.

👍 This kind of thing should really be stickied.

I agree; you're still at a slight disadvantage for EM, anesthesia, peds, and IM.

But it's slowly getting better. For peds, CHOP just matched their second DO resident this year from my school, the first one was last year from NYCOM. For IM you can realistically match a top 30 program – see OHSU, UVA, Baylor - but top-tier is out of reach.

And top FM, Psych, and PM&R programs regularly take DOs.

 

[cliquesh]

Didn't you match Anesthesia? You said that you were disadvantaged with 90th % stats.

Yea, I matched. It is true that I had higher stats than most and still some places instantly rejected me whereas they invited US-MDs with usmle scores 30 points lower than mine. I did, however, interview at several top 10 programs and I got my second choice.

Most of the good places in the anesthesia world take DOs, some won't, but many do. Like John Hopkins and u penn will take DOs, but Yale won't. It's not that big of a deal.

Besides having good preclinical grades and high boards my application kind of sucked. I had no research, average LORs, and average clinical grades, so maybe I didn't deserve some invites I thought I should have received.

 

[Urnathok]

It may be a regional thing, but I have never encountered anyone who has known the difference on a practical level between MDs and DOs down here. The closest was a nurse from New Jersey who said "Some are a little more homeopathic." So it's not really something I've run into; a DO has a swanky private family practice around the corner from me, and he seems to be doing just as well as the MDs in town.

Similarly, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" would apply. Chances are good that someone making a comment like that doesn't know much about them.

 

[Anicetus]

.

 

[Shinobiz11]

 

[NontradCA]

Yea, I matched. It is true that I had higher stats than most and still some places instantly rejected me whereas they invited US-MDs with usmle scores 30 points lower than mine. I did, however, interview at several top 10 programs and I got my second choice.

Most of the good places in the anesthesia world take DOs, some won't, but many do. Like John Hopkins and u penn will take DOs, but Yale won't. It's not that big of a deal.

Besides having good preclinical grades and high boards my application kind of sucked. I had no research, average LORs, and average clinical grades, so maybe I didn't deserve some invites I thought I should have received.

Ok sounds good. Grats. Why did you pick anesthesia?

 

[Temperature101]

Ok sounds good. Grats. Why did you pick anesthesia?

350k+ salary and 6 weeks PTO... Just kidding Lol...

 

[cliquesh]

Ok sounds good. Grats. Why did you pick anesthesia?

I think it's fun. It's actually the only rotation I had that I didn't want to kill myself on.

350k+ salary and 6 weeks PTO... Just kidding Lol...

Hah, kind of.

 

[SurgeDO]

This is the most pre-mediest of all the pre-medical threads in all the pre-medical world and pre-medical universe.

 

[circulus vitios]

PM&R you'll probably be fine as a DO. When I say fine, I mean there is little disadvantage as a DO when applying to PM&R. I'd probably say the same thing about anesthesia.

Next would be psychiatry. Many good places will take DOs for psych, but many of the top places won't. Some will, though.

Being a DO will hurt you for IM and/or peds. IM and peds, at good places, is very competitive and they don't like DOs very much at these places. You'll likely match at a middle tier program, at best, and probably a lower tier place.

EM is probably slightly more friendly than IM, but being a DO will nevertheless put you at a disadvantage.

Just to be clear, if you don't care where you do you're training, like you're not interested in doing a fellowship, then it's not a big deal; you'll be fine. There is, however, a significant difference training at a small community program and a large university hospital.

What's your view on lower-tier radiology? Realistic or a pipe dream?

 

[Goro]

"You can't cure stupid".-Forrest Gump

Overheard today.....🙁

"Did you know that Dr. So-and-so has a blog?"
"Really? Let me see."
"Look at this - she's not even an M.D.!"
"No?"
"She's just a D.O.!"
"And she's a pathologist? I didn't know D.O.s could become pathologists."

-----------------------​

 

[whatbout2morrow]

It makes sense that a lot of people don't understand what is going on and what exactly the degree confers. It's the job of DOs and future DOs to explain what the degree is and what the distinctions are. Once this is explained to people, it is usually met with only the most positive response. It's easily explained that there are top surgeons, physicians for professional sports teams, past surgeon general of army, white house doctors, etc, etc that are DOs.

👍

I've met plenty of healthcare employees who don't know what a DO is. I simply tell them that they learn one extra subject during medical school and that there are DO's in almost every specialty. If I know that they possibly may have worked with one, I proceed to tell them "Hey, do you know Dr. XXX? He/she's a DO".

Half of the people I know outside of healthcare get them confused with OD's.

By the way OP, as another poster mentioned, TCOM is one of the best DO schools out there and by far the cheapest. Unless you need grade replacement to be competitive, you should submit the TMDSAS (TMDSAS does not do grade replacement).

 

[thepoopologist]

There are players in the NBA that I think suck, even though in reality they are excellent basketball players in peak physical condition who make millions of dollars. Do those players give a damn about what I think? No. Do all NBA players come from Top D1 basketball schools? No.

And don't go to a USDO school if you can get into a USMD. That's just dumb. What you're saying is you want the opportunity to pay more in tuition. Why do that if you can get into a state MD.

 

[tenaciousrp]

I had to choose between a DO and a MD this week to perform an orthopedic surgery. Same practice and basic credentials. The DO had slightly better patient reviews and did a very prestigious fellowship. Going with the DO.

For school I chose a MD program but cost and location were by far the most important factors. Like 1A and 1B. Nothing else even comes close to importance to me personally.

My sister will not go to a MD for her PCP because she thinks DOs are more open minded.

 

[deleted492904]

Yea, I matched. It is true that I had higher stats than most and still some places instantly rejected me whereas they invited US-MDs with usmle scores 30 points lower than mine. I did, however, interview at several top 10 programs and I got my second choice.

Most of the good places in the anesthesia world take DOs, some won't, but many do. Like John Hopkins and u penn will take DOs, but Yale won't. It's not that big of a deal.

Besides having good preclinical grades and high boards my application kind of sucked. I had no research, average LORs, and average clinical grades, so maybe I didn't deserve some invites I thought I should have received.

Cliquesh, do you think that if you had some research and better clinical grades you might have gotten into your number one choice? Or did it make no difference? Also are you doing a MD residency?

 

[cliquesh]

What's your view on lower-tier radiology? Realistic or a pipe dream?

Realistic. About 80 DOs matched Acgme radiology and 24 matched AOA radiology this year. There were 3 in my class that matched acgme radiology at community programs with comlex scores below 550. You don't have to be a rockstar to match radiology anymore. Just take the usmle and aim for a 230+ and you'll be fine.

Cliquesh, do you think that if you had some research and better clinical grades you might have gotten into your number one choice? Or did it make no difference? Also are you doing a MD residency?

Maybe. I think I messed up my interview, though. I don't think it had anything to do with me being a DO if that's what you're worried about. It worked out for the best, I think. I'm super happy where I am now. Yes, I'm in an Acgme residency.

 

[Roxas]

This whole discrimination thing seems odd to me since really haven't seen it outside of SDN. I live in a state with no DO school, but every MD I've ever asked said they think DOs are awesome.

I've shared this anecdote before, but its definitely persuaded me to be more open to DO. An MD I know had a son who went to a DO school, and after comparing experiences he said his son seemed to get a better quality education and enjoyed his time infinitely more at the DO school. While I'm sure this isn't always the case, I don't think you are guaranteed anything by going to an MD school.

If some pissant IT guy wants to look down on DOs thats fine. I think a more likely place of that bias is from MDs who went to more prestigious schools (although I did have a Vanderbilt grad tell me he loved working with DOs and they were better docs than many of his MD colleagues). In the end I hope the camaraderie between physicians and/or the health care team trumps any desire people have to look down on one another.

 

[Mosonik]

This whole discrimination thing seems odd to me since really haven't seen it outside of SDN. I live in a state with no DO school, but every MD I've ever asked said they think DOs are awesome.

I've shared this anecdote before, but its definitely persuaded me to be more open to DO. An MD I know had a son who went to a DO school, and after comparing experiences he said his son seemed to get a better quality education and enjoyed his time infinitely more at the DO school. While I'm sure this isn't always the case, I don't think you are guaranteed anything by going to an MD school.

If some pissant IT guy wants to look down on DOs thats fine. I think a more likely place of that bias is from MDs who went to more prestigious schools (although I did have a Vanderbilt grad tell me he loved working with DOs and they were better docs than many of his MD colleagues). In the end I hope the camaraderie between physicians and/or the health care team trumps any desire people have to look down on one another.

This kind of attitude will take you a long ways in medicine 👍

 

[scarecrow90]

I probably would have been like, "What do you mean by just a DO?" Listened to what they had to say and then explained if they so desired. Never miss an opportunity to educate! 🙂

 

[MedGrl@2022]

👍 This kind of thing should really be stickied.

I agree; you're still at a slight disadvantage for EM, anesthesia, peds, and IM.

But it's slowly getting better. For peds, CHOP just matched their second DO resident this year from my school, the first one was last year from NYCOM. For IM you can realistically match a top 30 program – see OHSU, UVA, Baylor - but top-tier is out of reach.

And top FM, Psych, and PM&R programs regularly take DOs.

Okay. So I am just a pre-med I have no idea what it means to be a competitive residency? What should I be looking for? Can someone enlighten us.. I am interested in Pediatrics or Family Practice... but I always assumed I would just go to a residency that was in a good location for my family. How do I know what I should be looking for?

I am applying to 9 DO schools and 3 MD schools at this time. My MCAT scores were 27 (9PS, 8VR, 10BS) and my GPA is 3.78 overall with a Biochemistry major... I am sure that my science GPA is about if not higher... I was considering retaking the MCAT but I decided to focus on my applications... should I really be worried and retake my MCAT and really aim for MD schools because I need a better shot at a residency... I am also a URM and a non-trad with 4-5 years of research at the NIH (3 years of clinical research) if that helps paint a picture of me

For me I want to go to a school that will work for me too... I do better in a smaller environment... I am hoping to get a better sense of the schools when I interview and as I do my research... I know that boards are a big deal and I want the best education to help me prepare... I was also told that I need to take the USMLE and not the COMLEX...

Please advice us pre-meds, we want to make sure that we are making smart choices.

Thank you!!!

 

[MedGrl@2022]

This whole discrimination thing seems odd to me since really haven't seen it outside of SDN. I live in a state with no DO school, but every MD I've ever asked said they think DOs are awesome.

I've shared this anecdote before, but its definitely persuaded me to be more open to DO. An MD I know had a son who went to a DO school, and after comparing experiences he said his son seemed to get a better quality education and enjoyed his time infinitely more at the DO school. While I'm sure this isn't always the case, I don't think you are guaranteed anything by going to an MD school.

If some pissant IT guy wants to look down on DOs thats fine. I think a more likely place of that bias is from MDs who went to more prestigious schools (although I did have a Vanderbilt grad tell me he loved working with DOs and they were better docs than many of his MD colleagues). In the end I hope the camaraderie between physicians and/or the health care team trumps any desire people have to look down on one another.

yeah... I have heard my friend who is an MD at the NIH say the smartest person in his program is a DO... and that is in Radio-oncology a SUPER competitive field to get a residency...

I also know that DOs are plastic surgeons... also super competitive field...

I have been shadowing a DO in PM&R and he is fabulous... he also has an MBA and his patients LOVE him...

 

[cliquesh]

Okay. So I am just a pre-med I have no idea what it means to be a competitive residency? What should I be looking for? Can someone enlighten us.. I am interested in Pediatrics or Family Practice... but I always assumed I would just go to a residency that was in a good location for my family. How do I know what I should be looking for?

I am applying to 9 DO schools and 3 MD schools at this time. My MCAT scores were 27 (9PS, 8VR, 10BS) and my GPA is 3.78 overall with a Biochemistry major... I am sure that my science GPA is about if not higher... I was considering retaking the MCAT but I decided to focus on my applications... should I really be worried and retake my MCAT and really aim for MD schools because I need a better shot at a residency... I am also a URM and a non-trad with 4-5 years of research at the NIH (3 years of clinical research) if that helps paint a picture of me

For me I want to go to a school that will work for me too... I do better in a smaller environment... I am hoping to get a better sense of the schools when I interview and as I do my research... I know that boards are a big deal and I want the best education to help me prepare... I was also told that I need to take the USMLE and not the COMLEX...

Please advice us pre-meds, we want to make sure that we are making smart choices.

Thank you!!!

When you apply to residency, it's like applying to college or med school all over again. And just like some colleges are better than others some residencies are better than other, which makes them more competitive.

So how do you tell if a residency is good? Unfortunately, it's not really clear. In my opinion, the best way to go about it is to see which fellowships the residency offers and also check where their alumni go. Are their residents going on to competitive fellowships (basically fellowships that pay a lot of money)? You can find this information on their website.

If you go to a DO school you must take the comlex to become licensed. You have the option to take the usmle.

Family medicine isnt really competitive. Pediatrics is competitive at the good places, but it is pretty easy to get into otherwise.

When a program is competitive, it basically means they expect a higher than average board score for that particular speciality and they prefer US-MDs over other applicants. The average usmle for pediatrics might be a 220, but at CHOP its probably in the 230s or 240s.

You probably will change your mind once you start, which means you'll probably like having more options. Therefore, you probably should retake the mcat and apply to MD schools. But you applied already, so you probably should just see how it goes.

Being a DO is fine. Your education will be fine. If you take the usmle, and do about average, you'll have many opportunities.

Keep in mind, even if you're the best student in your class, you will likely not end up at the best program for residency, but you won't be at the worst either. You'll likely match somewhere in the middle. If you're cool with that, then by no means regret going to a DO school.

I know I'm being slightly ridiculous telling a PRE-med interested in family or peds to avoid DO schools, hah.

 

[pattr]

Okay. So I am just a pre-med I have no idea what it means to be a competitive residency? What should I be looking for? Can someone enlighten us.. I am interested in Pediatrics or Family Practice... but I always assumed I would just go to a residency that was in a good location for my family. How do I know what I should be looking for?

I am applying to 9 DO schools and 3 MD schools at this time. My MCAT scores were 27 (9PS, 8VR, 10BS) and my GPA is 3.78 overall with a Biochemistry major... I am sure that my science GPA is about if not higher... I was considering retaking the MCAT but I decided to focus on my applications... should I really be worried and retake my MCAT and really aim for MD schools because I need a better shot at a residency... I am also a URM and a non-trad with 4-5 years of research at the NIH (3 years of clinical research) if that helps paint a picture of me

For me I want to go to a school that will work for me too... I do better in a smaller environment... I am hoping to get a better sense of the schools when I interview and as I do my research... I know that boards are a big deal and I want the best education to help me prepare... I was also told that I need to take the USMLE and not the COMLEX...

Please advice us pre-meds, we want to make sure that we are making smart choices.

Thank you!!!

You can see how you fare in this application cycle and then if you don't get into a school you really want to go to, retake the MCAT shooting for a 30+ and you'll be competitive for many MD schools, especially with your GPA.

Check out the match lists of the schools you are applying to. It will give you a *rough* idea of what is obtainable. I feel like for most primary care residencies (FM, peds, etc.) the playing field is almost level between MD and DO grads.

 

[Starry]

This whole discrimination thing seems odd to me since really haven't seen it outside of SDN. I live in a state with no DO school, but every MD I've ever asked said they think DOs are awesome.

I've shared this anecdote before, but its definitely persuaded me to be more open to DO. An MD I know had a son who went to a DO school, and after comparing experiences he said his son seemed to get a better quality education and enjoyed his time infinitely more at the DO school. While I'm sure this isn't always the case, I don't think you are guaranteed anything by going to an MD school.

If some pissant IT guy wants to look down on DOs thats fine. I think a more likely place of that bias is from MDs who went to more prestigious schools (although I did have a Vanderbilt grad tell me he loved working with DOs and they were better docs than many of his MD colleagues). In the end I hope the camaraderie between physicians and/or the health care team trumps any desire people have to look down on one another.

👍👍👍 Thanks for sharing again!

 

[NYEMMED]

Okay. So I am just a pre-med I have no idea what it means to be a competitive residency? What should I be looking for? Can someone enlighten us.. I am interested in Pediatrics or Family Practice... but I always assumed I would just go to a residency that was in a good location for my family. How do I know what I should be looking for?

I am applying to 9 DO schools and 3 MD schools at this time. My MCAT scores were 27 (9PS, 8VR, 10BS) and my GPA is 3.78 overall with a Biochemistry major... I am sure that my science GPA is about if not higher... I was considering retaking the MCAT but I decided to focus on my applications... should I really be worried and retake my MCAT and really aim for MD schools because I need a better shot at a residency... I am also a URM and a non-trad with 4-5 years of research at the NIH (3 years of clinical research) if that helps paint a picture of me

For me I want to go to a school that will work for me too... I do better in a smaller environment... I am hoping to get a better sense of the schools when I interview and as I do my research... I know that boards are a big deal and I want the best education to help me prepare... I was also told that I need to take the USMLE and not the COMLEX...

Please advice us pre-meds, we want to make sure that we are making smart choices.

Thank you!!!

I agree with cliquesh...

For FP or Peds, and many other programs being a DO you can go to almost any program. The increasing difficulty is with sub specialties and surgical specialties, But there are DOs in every area of medicine so it is possible.

 

[redcabinet]

They prolly confused DO with OD.. rofl
Ignorant.

 

[MedGrl@2022]

When you apply to residency, it's like applying to college or med school all over again. And just like some colleges are better than others some residencies are better than other, which makes them more competitive.

So how do you tell if a residency is good? Unfortunately, it's not really clear. In my opinion, the best way to go about it is to see which fellowships the residency offers and also check where their alumni go. Are their residents going on to competitive fellowships (basically fellowships that pay a lot of money)? You can find this information on their website.

If you go to a DO school you must take the comlex to become licensed. You have the option to take the usmle.

Family medicine isnt really competitive. Pediatrics is competitive at the good places, but it is pretty easy to get into otherwise.

When a program is competitive, it basically means they expect a higher than average board score for that particular speciality and they prefer US-MDs over other applicants. The average usmle for pediatrics might be a 220, but at CHOP its probably in the 230s or 240s.

You probably will change your mind once you start, which means you'll probably like having more options. Therefore, you probably should retake the mcat and apply to MD schools. But you applied already, so you probably should just see how it goes.

Being a DO is fine. Your education will be fine. If you take the usmle, and do about average, you'll have many opportunities.

Keep in mind, even if you're the best student in your class, you will likely not end up at the best program for residency, but you won't be at the worst either. You'll likely match somewhere in the middle. If you're cool with that, then by no means regret going to a DO school.

I know I'm being slightly ridiculous telling a PRE-med interested in family or peds to avoid DO schools, hah.

Hi Cliquesh,

If I want to do a fellowship or subspecialize, do I have to do it right after residency? Or can I do it after a several years of practice? Fellowships are done after residency, right?

Thanks once again for all your help.

 

[pre med 2014]

Hi Cliquesh,

If I want to do a fellowship or subspecialize, do I have to do it right after residency? Or can I do it after a several years of practice? Fellowships are done after residency, right?

Thanks once again for all your help.

You can do a fellowship when you're old

 

[pre med 2014]

Overheard today.....🙁

"Did you know that Dr. So-and-so has a blog?"
"Really? Let me see."
"Look at this - she's not even an M.D.!"
"No?"
"She's just a D.O.!"
"And she's a pathologist? I didn't know D.O.s could become pathologists."

-----------------------
I overheard this at work today and was compelled to react to it. As an undergraduate administrative intern, I didn't dare correct them. But incidents like this are what inspire me to write. Continue reading on my blog.
​

I just wanted to share this with all you pre-osteo people. I didn't dare say anything. If I were braver I would have explained what D.O.s are and how they are "real doctors." But if you overheard this, what would you do?

Was this a conversation between nurses?

 

[Starry]

Was this a conversation between nurses?

Nope.

These people work in the hospital with physicians on a daily basis. Granted, they aren't front-end healthcare workers; they are administrative IT maintenance people. Still, since they've worked there a while and review patients records every day, you'd think they would know better. And they aren't kids; they are all 30+ y.o.

 

[cliquesh]

Hi Cliquesh,

If I want to do a fellowship or subspecialize, do I have to do it right after residency? Or can I do it after a several years of practice? Fellowships are done after residency, right?

Thanks once again for all your help.

You generally apply for fellowship in the year before your last year. Pediatrics is 3 years long, so you'd typically apply during your second year. Anesthesia is 4 years long, so you'd apply during your 3rd year.

You can practice for a few years then do a fellowship. 1-3 years off is fine, but beyond that its going to make you look less desireable.

In general, yes, you do your fellowship after residency. There are exceptions. In pathology, for instance, you can do a blood banking and tranfusion medicine fellowship in the middle of your residency, and then come back to your residency when your done with your fellowship training.