Just a D.O. - How would you react?

[lcollier7]

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Okay. So I am just a pre-med I have no idea what it means to be a competitive residency? What should I be looking for? Can someone enlighten us.. I am interested in Pediatrics or Family Practice... but I always assumed I would just go to a residency that was in a good location for my family. How do I know what I should be looking for?

I am applying to 9 DO schools and 3 MD schools at this time. My MCAT scores were 27 (9PS, 8VR, 10BS) and my GPA is 3.78 overall with a Biochemistry major... I am sure that my science GPA is about if not higher... I was considering retaking the MCAT but I decided to focus on my applications... should I really be worried and retake my MCAT and really aim for MD schools because I need a better shot at a residency... I am also a URM and a non-trad with 4-5 years of research at the NIH (3 years of clinical research) if that helps paint a picture of me

For me I want to go to a school that will work for me too... I do better in a smaller environment... I am hoping to get a better sense of the schools when I interview and as I do my research... I know that boards are a big deal and I want the best education to help me prepare... I was also told that I need to take the USMLE and not the COMLEX...

Please advice us pre-meds, we want to make sure that we are making smart choices.

Thank you!!!

Also keep in mind you do not HAVE to do a fellowship- for example you can do a residency in IM and go out into the work force after residency and become a hospitalist or IM outpatient physician- it is important that our society have specialist but it is equally important that we have primary care which is what our country is lacking dearly at the moment; I personally am genuinely interested in working with rural underserved populations so for me I am applying to MD schools that focus on that as their mission and primarily DO schools - DO schools have done a very good job helping fill some of primary care gap and I think this alone DOs have gained and continue to gain respect from MDs - again the only people I have ever seen discriminate are ridiculous Pre meds on SDN- avg patient sees white coat = dr that has been my experience so far in the ED

 

[MedGrl@2022]

You generally apply for fellowship in the year before your last year. Pediatrics is 3 years long, so you'd typically apply during your second year. Anesthesia is 4 years long, so you'd apply during your 3rd year.

You can practice for a few years then do a fellowship. 1-3 years off is fine, but beyond that its going to make you look less desireable.

In general, yes, you do your fellowship after residency. There are exceptions. In pathology, for instance, you can do a blood banking and tranfusion medicine fellowship in the middle of your residency, and then come back to your residency when your done with your fellowship training.

Why would it make one look less desirable?

 

[MedGrl@2022]

Also keep in mind you do not HAVE to do a fellowship- for example you can do a residency in IM and go out into the work force after residency and become a hospitalist or IM outpatient physician- it is important that our society have specialist but it is equally important that we have primary care which is what our country is lacking dearly at the moment; I personally am genuinely interested in working with rural underserved populations so for me I am applying to MD schools that focus on that as their mission and primarily DO schools - DO schools have done a very good job helping fill some of primary care gap and I think this alone DOs have gained and continue to gain respect from MDs - again the only people I have ever seen discriminate are ridiculous Pre meds on SDN- avg patient sees white coat = dr that has been my experience so far in the ED

Cool. Are you looking into doing IM? From my research it seems to be the residency everyone does. Probably because it is a prereq to so many other residencies. I was thinking about IM at one point but I think I prefer Family Medicine or Pediatrics... but I haven't even started medical school yet... who knows if/how my interests would change. Best of luck to you in this application cycle! 🙂

 

[pattr]

Why would it make one look less desirable?

The culture is such that program directors look more for people fresh out of residency or only 1-2 years out. Sometimes they assume that if you are a year or two out, it means you applied before but didn't match.

 

[MedGrl@2022]

The culture is such that program directors look more for people fresh out of residency or only 1-2 years out. Sometimes they assume that if you are a year or two out, it means you applied before but didn't match.

Just curious: Do doctors ever decide later in life that they want to do a fellowship because they want to specialize in something? Or want to take some time to focus on their family and then go back and continue their education? I read somewhere that they were starting to have like part-time residencies. Is this very very very rare?

 

[willen101383]

Just curious: Do doctors ever decide later in life that they want to do a fellowship because they want to specialize in something? Or want to take some time to focus on their family and then go back and continue their education? I read somewhere that they were starting to have like part-time residencies. Is this very very very rare?

Yes doctors do decide later in life to switch specialties. Who knows how common that is, but I personally know of two. As for graduating med school, not going on to residency (which is what I am assuming you mean)....that is very rare and something that could prevent you from EVER going to residency. Medicine is a skill like any other, use it or lose it.....and not many people are going to want you in their residency program if you have a 5 year or whatever gap in your training.

As for part time residencies, I have no idea.....nor would I ever consider that.

 

[MedGrl@2022]

Yes doctors do decide later in life to switch specialties. Who knows how common that is, but I personally know of two. As for graduating med school, not going on to residency (which is what I am assuming you mean)....that is very rare and something that could prevent you from EVER going to residency. Medicine is a skill like any other, use it or lose it.....and not many people are going to want you in their residency program if you have a 5 year or whatever gap in your training.

As for part time residencies, I have no idea.....nor would I ever consider that.

No I was considering taking a year between medical school and residency... but that probably won't happen... but depending on my life situation I always enjoy learning and I could be in school forever if money allowed me to but I was thinking of completing my residency practicing for a while then doing a fellowship later in life... I am just a pre-med now though... so I am just learning about what may and may not be reasonable

After residency, can you join a practice and/or continue to work in a hospital if you are doing primary care in either family medicine or pediatrics or do employers want you to have a fellowship?

 

[pattr]

No I was considering taking a year between medical school and residency... but that probably won't happen... but depending on my life situation I always enjoy learning and I could be in school forever if money allowed me to but I was thinking of completing my residency practicing for a while then doing a fellowship later in life... I am just a pre-med now though... so I am just learning about what may and may not be reasonable

After residency, can you join a practice and/or continue to work in a hospital if you are doing primary care in either family medicine or pediatrics or do employers want you to have a fellowship?

If you want to do primary care (being the patient's main doctor) and not specialize, you don't even need to do a fellowship. You can definitely join a practice or work in a hospital once you graduate from residency and this is the path that most physicians take. You only need to do a fellowship if you want to be a specialist eg. sports med fellowship after family medicine residency, cardiology after internal medicine, neonatology after pediatrics etc...

You can find a list of all the different sub-specialties (fellowships) here: http://www.abms.org/who_we_help/physicians/specialties.aspx

 

[gmcguitar4]

No I was considering taking a year between medical school and residency... but that probably won't happen... but depending on my life situation I always enjoy learning and I could be in school forever if money allowed me to but I was thinking of completing my residency practicing for a while then doing a fellowship later in life... I am just a pre-med now though... so I am just learning about what may and may not be reasonable

After residency, can you join a practice and/or continue to work in a hospital if you are doing primary care in either family medicine or pediatrics or do employers want you to have a fellowship?

I know someone who went to a mid-tier MD and decided to take a year off in between residency..he is now in his 3rd year without a residency. Don't take a year off in between med school and residency.

 

[MedGrl@2022]

I know someone who went to a mid-tier MD and decided to take a year off in between residency..he is now in his 3rd year without a residency. Don't take a year off in between med school and residency.

ouch thanks for the heads up... did he intentionally take time off or just wanted to make himself more competitive for residency? I was considering maybe taking time off for family, but yeah. I guess I definitely will not.

 

[Siggy]

It depends. How much does a DO's paycheck get docked every time some ignorant person makes a stupid comment?

Zero plus zero times zero, carry the zero... ummm... zero?

Edit:

Also, who cares about IT. They can worry about resetting people's passwords and leave the medicine to the physicians (MD and DO).

 

[Starry]

Zero plus zero times zero, carry the zero... ummm... zero?

Edit:

Also, who cares about IT. They can worry about resetting people's passwords and leave the medicine to the physicians (MD and DO).

Oh, come on now. That dismissive attitude towards other employees in the hospital is rude and uncalled for. They weren't trying to do a physician's job; all I said was that they didn't know what a DO was. You aren't qualified to do their job either, which involves far more than just resetting passwords.

 

[Tizoc]

I agree with the sentiment, Starry, but honestly? You shouldn't let some haters from IT cause you to doubt like that.

As for what you wrote:

"I can't say that this attitude doesn't frighten me. Is this the uphill battle that I will always fight? Will I always be considered inferior to my fellow physicians even if we have completed the same training, the same residencies, and see the same patients? Will my knowledge be considered less legitimate; will my advice carry less weight?"

It could be if you choose for it to be. Most D.O.s I know are more concerned with taking care of their patients rather than fighting this battle of "equality." Sure, we'll always have to be explaining why the initials on the back of our names are different, but it's a very, very tiny price to pay for doing something we want to do.

When you get to your school of choosing, don't worry about the differences. Concern yourself with learning as much as you can - that's what will make you a good doctor. And when it comes to explaining what a D.O. is, be patient. People aren't going to get it immediately.

 

[Darthberghen]

One can be an IT god without a high school diploma e.g. Snowden. Formal education is generally not a hard requirement in the computer world.

 

[Starry]

I agree with the sentiment, Starry, but honestly? You shouldn't let some haters from IT cause you to doubt like that.

As for what you wrote:
It could be if you choose for it to be. Most D.O.s I know are more concerned with taking care of their patients rather than fighting this battle of "equality." Sure, we'll always have to be explaining why the initials on the back of our names are different, but it's a very, very tiny price to pay for doing something we want to do.
When you get to your school of choosing, don't worry about the differences. Concern yourself with learning as much as you can - that's what will make you a good doctor. And when it comes to explaining what a D.O. is, be patient. People aren't going to get it immediately.

Great advice, thanks Tizoc. 😀

One can be an IT god without a high school diploma e.g. Snowden. Formal education is generally not a hard requirement in the computer world.

That's not what I meant when I said that he wasn't qualified to do an IT job. Believe it or not, there is some skill and knowledge involved. Whether or not the work involves formal education is a different issue.

 

[MedGrl@2022]

You can see how you fare in this application cycle and then if you don't get into a school you really want to go to, retake the MCAT shooting for a 30+ and you'll be competitive for many MD schools, especially with your GPA.

Check out the match lists of the schools you are applying to. It will give you a *rough* idea of what is obtainable. I feel like for most primary care residencies (FM, peds, etc.) the playing field is almost level between MD and DO grads.

I am thinking of retaking in late August. A lot of the MD schools said to take the MCAT before September. Do you think this would be okay? Or should I wait until next year? After thinking about it some more, I want to keep my options open. Although, I want to do primary care now... I think there is a decent chance that I could switch into psychiatry or neurology as I have done a lot of research on mental health and psychiatric disorders. I also would really like to get into my instate school (Maryland). It is super competitive though.

Is the financial aid for MD and DO schools about the same? I am really concerned about how I am going to finance my medical school education.

 

[cliquesh]

Neurology and psychiatry are both easy as a DO....just to let you know.

 

[pattr]

Is the financial aid for MD and DO schools about the same? I am really concerned about how I am going to finance my medical school education.

Yes they are about the same. DO schools tend to be more expensive on average though. Either way most people take out loans to finance everything which are not hard to obtain.

 

[MedGrl@2022]

Yes they are about the same. DO schools tend to be more expensive on average though. Either way most people take out loans to finance everything which are not hard to obtain.

Does the federal government give out these loans? I thought I would have to take out private loans. My friend recently told me just to do DIRECT federal loans. Would I be able to just do federal loans or with the economy are people having to take out private loans too?

 

[icevermin]

Yeah what's up work that? Why are DO schools so expensive?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[cliquesh]

Yeah what's up work that? Why are DO schools so expensive?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

Most DO schools are private. A good portion of MD schools are public, so their tuition, on acerage, is cheaper.

 

[hallowmann]

Does the federal government give out these loans? I thought I would have to take out private loans. My friend recently told me just to do DIRECT federal loans. Would I be able to just do federal loans or with the economy are people having to take out private loans too?

You shouldn't be taking out truly private loans for med school. Direct Stafford Loans (6.8% fixed interest) will cover a big chunk (most) of your expenses, but they are limited, and beyond that for other expenses up to the set "Cost of Attendance" (COA) you can take GradPLUS Student Loans (7.9% fixed interest).

Check here for general info: https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/meded/79232/federal_student_loans.html

And consult your school financial aid office when the time comes for specifics.

 

[ClinPathDO]

Does the federal government give out these loans? I thought I would have to take out private loans. My friend recently told me just to do DIRECT federal loans. Would I be able to just do federal loans or with the economy are people having to take out private loans too?

direct plus loans will cover your expenses up to the estimated cost of attendance as long as your credit is ok. (no recent collections, or long term missed payments)

 

[MedGrl@2022]

You shouldn't be taking out truly private loans for med school. Direct Stafford Loans (6.8% fixed interest) will cover a big chunk (most) of your expenses, but they are limited, and beyond that for other expenses up to the set "Cost of Attendance" (COA) you can take GradPLUS Student Loans (7.9% fixed interest).

Check here for general info: https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/meded/79232/federal_student_loans.html

And consult your school financial aid office when the time comes for specifics.

Thanks for the heads up SDN is awesome!!!

 

[Mehd School]

I know I'm late to the party, but thought I'd throw my hat in the ring.

If a person I don't know or is out in public says this, I go on with my daily life.
If a family member says this, I'll gently explain the facts to them.
If a boss says this, he probably wouldn't have hired me in the first place.

Can't please everybody, at the very least be happy with yourself. Droning over what other people think of your is a terrible way to live your life.