Just an idea, and it's probably a crazy one,

[chagall]

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but how about using ECT in treatment of severe PTSD soon after the violent event? I know there are many "issues" with this...one being that PTSD might not even be the definite diagnosis at such an early point.

But this was all brought up my my recent flight home, during which a wild-eyed guy randomly came up to me and told me, "I killed a baby." He had just returned 3 days ago from 6 mos in Iraq and had been drinking ever since. He "had" to kill this little girl because the Air Force told him to...she was approaching his plane.

He was so distraught, so absolutely tortured within his mind, that he couldn't help but repeat horrible things over and over, even things that verged on the delusional. Because of that, there is a possibility he was just some really out-there patient making up this story, but I honestly don't think so...just a normal guy who had just returned from a horrific experience.

So I (a 4th yr med student) just did what I could to comfort him and tell him that he had to get help ASAP from a doctor, with family support, etc...that alcohol wasn't going to cure it.

Anyway, I'm off-track now. I just wonder if the "side effect" of ECT of some retrograde and anterograde memory loss might ease things in a case like this, especially if he's officially diagnosed with major depression too. Not that the solution to life's tragedies is to forget them...but I can't imagine this man surviving very long at the rate he is going.

I didn't get his number or anything, though I kind of wish I had (he also made sexual advances toward me, probably worse since he was drunk), so I stayed away...but I do wish him the best.

P.S. My other idea is to do a 4th year research month into the mental health options in the military field and the stigma against using them...try to see what can be changed...maybe document some personal stories...what do you think?

 

[billypilgrim37]

Michel Gondry did this with Jim Carrey, and it didn't turn out so well...

 

[toby jones]

Wasn't there some kind of pill that was said (rather controversially) to effect some memory loss? I thought it was suggested that people who had been raped etc could benefit from taking it.

There are lots of very controversial ethical issues around this, of course.

For example... How bad can it be to sexually abuse someone so long as you make sure you give them their pill afterwards?????

 

[whopper]

I'm remember the same as well Toby.

http://60minutes.yahoo.com/segment/21/memory_drug
-Youre going to have to watch multiple clips because each one is only about 1-3 minutes.

Was it related to this? I remember after this report-there was a big buzz on the boards.

Chagall, I wouldn't go with the ECT option if it were to only treat the memory aspects because some meds can do the same thing (as evidence by the above 60 minutes report), more cost effectively than ECT. PTSD mixed with depression? I would consider if it it was treatment resistance depression. I salute your use of innovative & fluid thinking. That's the type of thinking people should retain because this is how we get new & better approaches.

 

[Hurricane]

Wasn't there some kind of pill that was said (rather controversially) to effect some memory loss? I thought it was suggested that people who had been raped etc could benefit from taking it.

That was propranolol, a blood pressure medication that's been around for years, a beta andrenergic receptor blocker. The media likes to go on about how it make you "forget" but that's not what it does. It blunts the autonomic response to the memory (increased heart rate, elevated blood pressure, etc) which in theory may lessen the emotional salience of the memory. The same drug is used for performance anxiety - it doesn't get rid of the anxiety so much as blunt the physical manifestations of anxiety so you can stand up and give your speech or whatever.

 

[chagall]

I'm remember the same as well Toby.

http://60minutes.yahoo.com/segment/21/memory_drug
-Youre going to have to watch multiple clips because each one is only about 1-3 minutes.

Was it related to this? I remember after this report-there was a big buzz on the boards.

Chagall, I wouldn't go with the ECT option if it were to only treat the memory aspects because some meds can do the same thing (as evidence by the above 60 minutes report), more cost effectively than ECT. PTSD mixed with depression? I would consider if it it was treatment resistance depression. I salute your use of innovative & fluid thinking. That's the type of thinking people should retain because this is how we get new & better approaches.

Thanks...yeah, I was thinking of it because of this man's tortured thoughts about a single event, combined with his self-devaluation (he kept saying, "I hate myself," and "I'm such scum," etc). I have heard about propranolol before, but I thought that was useful only before exposure to the traumatic event?

My first wish was to get this guy to a doctor and to therapy ASAP...but I was shocked that he hadn't even been discharged from the military and was supposed to go back later. He'd been home for 3 days and had no idea what he was supposed to do...maybe (hopefully?) he was just confused on the policies in place, but doesn't there seem to be a disconnect where mental health treatment is concerned?

 

[whopper]

He's supposed to go back to service later? I hope its not in any hot spots.

I don't know this situation works for military service, but if you really believe the guy has PTSD, you might want to ask the military to allow him to get treatment & forego any transfer to areas that can be considered a hot spot.

 

[chagall]

He's supposed to go back to service later? I hope its not in any hot spots.

I don't know this situation works for military service, but if you really believe the guy has PTSD, you might want to ask the military to allow him to get treatment & forego any transfer to areas that can be considered a hot spot.

I don't know...I don't even know his name. He did say off and on that "I'm gonna quit...I know I have to quit" (meaning the service)...and he agreed to get help and see a doctor ASAP once he got home. So I'm hoping somehow that things will work out...this guy was definitely not fit for military service in the shape he was in (saying delusional things like, "all the people on this plane, they all know what I did!").

He was headed home to visit his folks for the first time after the war, so I'm just praying that they will help take care of him as well...I guess I should have gotten his number and followed up with him, and I would have, had the conversation on his end not progressed in such a sexual direction...I didn't want to encourage that in any way.

Man, and I'm going into neurology, but this stuff tears at my heart and fascinates me...I think I may end up having to figure out some way to fit work on PTSD stuff in somehow...