Kaiser (full CoA scholarship) vs Vanderbilt (75% tuition scholarship)

[2020NonTrad]

Hello everyone-

I've been fortunate to have had a very successful application cycle. As financial aid information has come in, I've narrowed my choices down to Kaiser and Vanderbilt (my other top choices, Yale and Pitt, will certainly be full price). I'm struggling with the decision and hoping to get some feedback.

Kaiser

Pros:

• No debt!
• Their curriculum seems innovative and research-based
• Weather
• Would be cool to be a part of the first class
• Faculty seems friendly and excited to start a medical school
• The administration all seem experienced (as far as a naive applicant can tell) and seem to have it together
• New building seems very nice, and I like the idea of having a cafeteria and gym on-site
• 6-hour drive from my hometown, 2-hour drive to closest family

Cons:

• It's a new school, and there's certainly going to be bumps for the faculty and students to work through
• There are no current students to talk to, so the quality of education and happiness of students is a complete unknown
• It remains to be seen how the school will be seen by residency PDs
  • This one is very important to me. While I'm largely undecided on specialty, I do have an interest in competitive surgical subspecialties and don't want to limit my options.
  • No matter my specialty, I have a strong interest in academic medicine, and I think that coming from an academic powerhouse would be a big advantage here
  • In following the match threads here and on Reddit, many students seem unhappy with their results and wish they'd been more competitive
  • Kaiser is lacking in residency and fellowships that I may want to pursue
• Research opportunities will certainly be more limited than Vanderbilt, as well as networking opportunities
• I'm not sure how I feel about starting clerkships during week 3 of MS1. I'm concerned that going into clinical environments with almost no background knowledge will be a poor use of time.
• I have mixed feelings about the lack of cadaver lab
• Not a huge fan of the LA area in general
• The overall Kaiser reputation is mixed, with some people being all about it and some viewing it very poorly
• Pasadena is very expensive to live in, and I think my cost of living would go beyond the scholarship offered by the school. Being older and non-traditional, I am not really willing to have a roommate to save money.
• They recommend moving between at least your first and second year, living close to the school during your first year and close to your assigned clinical site during your second year.
• Having clinical sites strewn throughout the LA area is less than ideal
• They seem to put an emphasis on alleged "wellness," with things like yoga, meditation, and "mindfulness." It looks like participation will be mandatory through the REACH program. While I'm all about mental health and the idea of wellness, this way of going about it doesn't really vibe with me.

Vanderbilt

Pros:

• Faculty was very friendly and welcoming on interview day
• Students seemed very happy and it seems like a good fit
• P/F clerkships during second year
• I like the Immersion curriculum
• Research and global health opportunities seem strong
• Networking opportunities also seem strong
• I think Nahsville would be a fun and relatively inexpensive place to live. I think the area is probably more dog-friendly than LA as well
• Depending on what happens with the economy, I could probably purchase a home in Nasvhille
• Hot chicken!
• Match list is strong
• Overall reputation seems very positive - I personally haven't heard anything negative about the school.
• I've been impressed with their COVID-19 response
• Cheap and short flights to family on the East Coast
• It's a T20 and comes with overall more prestige
• Has high rated residency and fellowship programs in just about everything I think I'll be interested in

Cons:

• Debt. The scholarship makes tuition about $10k/yr, but I'd also have to take on some debt for living expenses. I estimate taking around $150k in loans
• Further from most family, but closer to some family
• GI pain from all the hot chicken

Obviously, Vandy's con list is much shorter, but $150k is big. I realize that this is an awesome position to be in, and I'm very happy. I will admit though, sometimes it seems like it would be stupid to give up a chance to get an MD for free, and other times it seems like it would be stupid to give up an awesome scholarship and awesome opportunities at a T20 medical school.

Thanks, everyone!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[b1209]

I was just about to post a Kaiser vs. Pitt pro-con list and you hit the nail on almost everything I was feeling with the Kaiser section of your post! I also want to go into academic medicine and specialize in something with a surgical focus.

Today, Kaiser's answer during their virtual second look about academic medicine was very broad and it left me concerned about how we would match up against the top 20s for the more competitive academic residencies. My debt would most definitely be much more than yours (probably double) so I am not sure how I am feeling quite yet about my decision, but it is nice to know someone is in a similar situation as me.

 

[MD4321]

Vanderbilt seems like the winner here based on your pros/cons. If you're set on academics, it might be helpful to look up the average salary of an academic physician in your areas of interest to add some context to how hard paying off the extra 150k would be - some fields vary more than others in academic vs. nonacademic compensation.

I'm also torn between KP, UCSD (50% tuition) & Cornell (likely 100% tuition based on EFC), I understand how hard the decision is with the newness of KP. It's hard to foresee how the benefits that come with being part of the inaugural class will stack up against the negatives that accompany any brand new school, that's a major point I've been thinking about.

 

[blurb_123]

I was just about to post a Kaiser vs. Pitt pro-con list and you hit the nail on almost everything I was feeling with the Kaiser section of your post! I also want to go into academic medicine and specialize in something with a surgical focus.

Today, Kaiser's answer during their virtual second look about academic medicine was very broad and it left me concerned about how we would match up against the top 20s for the more competitive academic residencies. My debt would most definitely be much more than yours (probably double) so I am not sure how I am feeling quite yet about my decision, but it is nice to know someone is in a similar situation as me.

What was the gist of this broad answer?

 

[b1209]

What was the gist of this broad answer?

I wrote notes during the whole session and what I wrote down while they were explaining it was: "careers in academic medicine which emphasize research and teaching: (really didn’t answer??? just said we will help you since there is a broad range of faculty to help students??)"

lol sorry I didn't write more I was just writing as they were speaking, but I distinctly remember it being broad and no tangible examples/ways they can support students, but it IS a new school so I am sure the faculty themselves will be moving at the pace of the students

 

[peachyhoney]

If I were you, I would go with Vanderbilt. Yes the debt will be much more but you will be able to pay it off over time even if it does take a while. I think it will be worth the investment to pick a well established school with set in stone resources if you are interested in academia and something competitive.

I’m having trouble picking between Kaiser and another school but I am more focused on primary care and maybe not going into academia

 

[Skittsie13]

Honestly 150k debt on a future physician salary is not *that* substantial, even though it sounds scary. Vanderbilt is the clear winner here.

 

[MD34289403]

If you have a lot of family in California, that might be very helpful for you since Vanderbilt isn't very close to the East Coast where your other family is. This would be a four year commitment to be pretty far from home to go to Vanderbilt, though I can see why you would consider the prestige. You could still try to work some connections in LA if you went to Kaiser. If money is important to you, I think Kaiser is worth it. The reputation of Kaiser will build in the next few years as you are a student there, and you can also make connections through away rotations to show residencies who you are. This is a tough choice, but personally I think you might be better off at Kaiser.

 

[talkeetnadenali]

Two things to consider:

1. What research are you interested in? Kaiser probably has excellent opportunities in large scale epi research, health systems, preventive med, and medical education. For areas like basic science, major clinical trials, and specialty related research you would probably have to work much harder to find the right opportunity.
2. How confident are you in Kaiser’s ability to go the extra mile to set up their first class with incredible opportunities so that they match well and build a name for their school? If you think they will do so, then this might set you up even better for academic residencies in the long run. If your intuition is that they won’t or they may not be able to do this, then Vanderbilt seems the better choice for you as long as you’re comfortable with the financial burden.

 

[Engrailed]

Vanderbilt--worth it! The school has history vs Kaiser and unless you are strongly compelled to go to Kaiser, Vandy will likely open more doors. It's renowned in medicine and you'd also have a strong alumni network there.

 

[altblue]

To complement the wonderful points other people have made, $150k in debt is very, very manageable... I'll be accruing a bit more than that, I'm not interested in any of the "loaded" specialties and I'm by no means worried. If the question were $150k versus $300k, that would be a different story.

I'd go to Vandy.

 

[2020NonTrad]

Thanks everyone for your feedback!

I was just about to post a Kaiser vs. Pitt pro-con list and you hit the nail on almost everything I was feeling with the Kaiser section of your post! I also want to go into academic medicine and specialize in something with a surgical focus.

Today, Kaiser's answer during their virtual second look about academic medicine was very broad and it left me concerned about how we would match up against the top 20s for the more competitive academic residencies. My debt would most definitely be much more than yours (probably double) so I am not sure how I am feeling quite yet about my decision, but it is nice to know someone is in a similar situation as me.

I really loved Pitt, and I'm still hoping that I'm offered some sort of scholarship there, but I think my parent's financial situation will exclude that. Best of luck with your decision!

 

[b1209]

Thanks everyone for your feedback!



I really loved Pitt, and I'm still hoping that I'm offered some sort of scholarship there, but I think my parent's financial situation will exclude that. Best of luck with your decision!

Yeah, I've heard they aren't the most generous - maybe when I post something about my decision you can help me out too haha. Best of luck to you as well!

 

[2020NonTrad]

Yeah, I've heard they aren't the most generous - maybe when I post something about my decision you can help me out too haha. Best of luck to you as well!

Of course. Feel free to PM me if you need someone to bounce thoughts off of.