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[treesarefrends]

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[Banco]

I really don’t know how to advise here. The cost differences are massive. You may want to chase prestige in residency too, so name will help. That being said, you can be a stellar candidate from a low tier school and match top tier programs - it just comes down to you and the work you put in.

I guess I would take Duke out of the running as I don’t think it really offers anything more than NW or CW and is the most expensive. Beyond that, 240-300k more to attend medical school? Yeesh I might be leaning Kaiser honestly.

 

[wondervisions]

Kaiser

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

I can understand the hesitation because (at least for me, personally) the cost has an inverse relationship with desirability. However, the price difference is just too big. 240k-340k is just so much money....

 

[Davidfromcali]

Kaiser. Non of those are prestigious enough to justify those price tags. In fact, I don’t think any school could justify those price tags. Not even HMS IMO.
Anyway, take the full COA and run. Kaiser will give you all opportunities to match at a great program and attending those other schools is no guarantee that’ll you’ll be match at a top place either.

 

[wondervisions]

I couldn't imagine taking out that much debt given the option not to. What if the worst happens and you can't graduate for whatever reason? What if you end up hating medicine? There's too much risk with that much debt. Prestige is not worth it.

 

[KendallJennerSniperLady69]

@OP everyone is telling you to choose Kaiser. I agree:

1. Most would say that location is the best out of all your choices
2. I wouldn't say Kaiser has a lower reputation... Given their Full COA for the first 5 classes, they have been extremely selective, and I'm pretty certain that their incoming classes are full of superstars (like yourself!). You can also search for an old thread (1 or 2 years old I think?) on here where a person chose Kaiser over NYU, citing the unparalleled attention and support they felt they would get at Kaiser vs NYU. I think that's invaluable when it comes to building yourself as a physician and getting yourself to where you wanna be.

 

[proudofmykids]

Kaiser!!!

Plan your course (specialty goal) with their assistance and attention and you’ll wind up just as successful but with a couple million dollars more money in 20 years.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Kaiser by a country mile!

 

[treesarefrends]

Hi everyone, thanks so much for your thoughtful and insightful responses! I'm mostly in between NW and Kaiser at this point, I do think Duke is too expensive and I haven't heard back from aid appeal. Some days I lean towards NW and other days the debt scares me and Kaiser sounds really appealing

 

[wondervisions]

Don't buy in to the prestige myth. Kaiser all the way.

 

[squids82]

Clinical grades are a big deal, and an even bigger deal now with step 1 p/f. How does the school do clinical grading? Is there a flat cap on H? Do they do P/HP/H, and in which case what is the %/%/%? What is the criteria? How big is the subjective category and what is it based on?

I agree that it is important to do well in schools that have graded clerkships but is this trying to say that you are now at a disadvantage in going to a school with true P/F clerkships like CCLCM or Yale?

 

[Wildtype]

FWIW, I think Kaiser is full of students who turned down other prestigious schools for the opportunity to live in SoCal with no debt. If prestige is your concern, I wouldn't worry about Kaiser's prestige in the future.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

FWIW, I think Kaiser is full of students who turned down other prestigious schools for the opportunity to live in SoCal with no debt. If prestige is your concern, I wouldn't worry about Kaiser's prestige in the future.

While I also vote for Kaiser, I wouldn't factor this short term trend into consideration. The reason they most likely turned down prestigious institutions is because of the full tuition waiver which is temporary for the first few classes. And while I think it's a great decision, we don't know if this will last in the future classes. The reason that's important is that prestige and reputation easily forget short-term effects. Again, I say go to Kaiser for the practicality, but don't necessarily bank on the prestige long term. It could become a powerhouse, or it might not. What matters is you're getting a free education now.

 

[lanadelreyy]

To echo everyone, Kaiser easy. If not, Feinberg

 

[DrOngoGablogian]

I agree that it is important to do well in schools that have graded clerkships but is this trying to say that you are now at a disadvantage in going to a school with true P/F clerkships like CCLCM or Yale?

No definitely not. But hypothetically a mid-tier school that gives 10% H vs one that gives 30% H? And let's say the first is based 75% on subjective bs and the second 75% based on shelf? That's a pretty big deal.

 

[squids82]

No definitely not. But hypothetically a mid-tier school that gives 10% H vs one that gives 30% H? And let's say the first is based 75% on subjective bs and the second 75% based on shelf? That's a pretty big deal.

Thanks for clarifying, I definitely misinterpreted what you were saying!

 

[wondervisions]

I would still pick Kaiser

 

[7summers]

Im Gonna play deviIs advocate and say too many people drink the Kaiser cool-aid. They haven’t graduated their first class yet so all of these theories about competitiveness is just hypothetical. (Edit to add: Kaiser is also in a location in which several other strong medical schools exist LA County so that might increase competition to opportunities in that region as compared to Duke in Durham.)It is a new institution and with Step 1 going P/F it might be worth the investment to attend a school with a name-brand. Going to a well recognized school gives you an easier path. Saw this personally in undergrad —> med school and I guarantee med school to residency will be similar. Networking and resources at these top schools are incomparable else where and that’s a huge part of why they remain on top year after year.

I think IMO Duke is the safest bet with all the unknowns around Step 1. That said they are both amazing life opportunities and you cannot go wrong.

final edit to add:
take note of how Kaiser’a claim to fame was almost shot from their potential scandal this past fall. I’d take that to heart. Big name schools have an easier bounce back.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

Im Gonna play deviIs advocate and say too many people drink the Kaiser cool-aid. They haven’t graduated their first class yet so all of these theories about competitiveness is just hypothetical. It is a new institution and with Step 1 going P/F it might be worth the investment to attend a school with a name-brand. Going to a well recognized school gives you an easier path. Saw this personally in undergrad —> med school and I guarantee med school to residency will be similar. Networking and resources at these top schools are incomparable else where and that’s a huge part of why they remain on top year after year.

I think IMO Duke is the safest bet with all the unknowns around Step 1. That said they are both amazing life opportunities and you cannot go wrong.

You'll see from my post above that I also doubt Kaiser's long-term reputation. However, seems like you missed the cost difference? Full COA is insane, they're paying you to teach you.

 

[7summers]

You'll see from my post above that I also doubt Kaiser's long-term reputation. However, seems like you missed the cost difference? Full COA is insane, they're paying you to teach you.

I think Duke is pretty good on negotiating. If I were OP I’d wait for the shake up of the traffic rules to seee how Duke can reallocate some funds and ask again. But in reality average debt isn’t that far off from what OP would come out with. It’s not a bad position.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

Im Gonna play deviIs advocate and say too many people drink the Kaiser cool-aid. They haven’t graduated their first class yet so all of these theories about competitiveness is just hypothetical. (Edit to add: Kaiser is also in a location in which several other strong medical schools exist LA County so that might increase competition to opportunities in that region as compared to Duke in Durham.)It is a new institution and with Step 1 going P/F it might be worth the investment to attend a school with a name-brand. Going to a well recognized school gives you an easier path. Saw this personally in undergrad —> med school and I guarantee med school to residency will be similar. Networking and resources at these top schools are incomparable else where and that’s a huge part of why they remain on top year after year.

I think IMO Duke is the safest bet with all the unknowns around Step 1. That said they are both amazing life opportunities and you cannot go wrong.

final edit to add:
take note of how Kaiser’a claim to fame was almost shot from their potential scandal this past fall. I’d take that to heart. Big name schools have an easier bounce back.

I'm reading this again and it comes off as pretty harsh on Kaiser. I understand that you got into Duke and might want to hype it up, but there's no need to put down another school.

Duke is cool, at ~$200k vs Kaiser full COA I'd consider it. But no one would fault you for choosing Kaiser.

 

[7summers]

I'm reading this again and it comes off as pretty harsh on Kaiser. I understand that you got into Duke and might want to hype it up, but there's no need to put down another school.

Duke is cool, at ~$200k vs Kaiser full COA I'd consider it. But no one would fault you for choosing Kaiser.

Lol I’m not making this personal at all but if you wanna go there. Kaiser was just as much on my radar but I decided the headache of going through their social justice battle wasn’t worth it and declined. I know what prestige can afford and I think it’s a real consideration that OP should think about. Kaiser is a great school but it’s not what everyone is chalking it up to be, especially with no facts to back up their claims. That’s all.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

Lol I’m not making this personal at all but if you wanna go there. Kaiser was just as much on my radar but I decided the headache of going through their social justice battle wasn’t worth it and declined. I know what prestige can afford and I think it’s a real consideration that OP should think about. Kaiser is a great school but it’s not what everyone is chalking it up to be, especially with no facts to back up their claims. That’s all.

I see, it sounds like you're mad about the incident they had. That explains a lot now. You have every right to be if the claims are true, and that should be discussed. However, those claims were very extreme, and my understanding of the situation is that we have no new information? I believe we've seen stories of previous claims being overexaggerated before. Let's wait and see.

In the meantime, I wouldn't make any rash decisions until more information comes out.

 

[7summers]

I see, it sounds like you're mad about the incident they had. That explains a lot now. You have every right to be if the claims are true, and that should be discussed. However, those claims were very extreme, and my understanding of the situation is that we have no new information? I believe we've seen stories of previous claims being overexaggerated before. Let's wait and see.

In the meantime, I wouldn't make any rash decisions until more information comes out.

I agree we should wait and you’re absolutely right I take those allegations very seriously. When I made my decision about Kaiser I already had other acceptances to institutions that did not have a morally ambiguous situations so it was just easier to let Kaiser go.

Personally have used Kaiser hospital systems my entire life and I love it and I have no doubt in their capabilities to make and train great physicians. There are just some opportunities more prestigious institutions can provide that aren’t available to other schools.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

update: I received more aid from NW which would bring it down to 197k including living expenses. I also will have some help from my parents which would bring it down to around 150-160K. At this point, leaning between KP or NW.

Are you interested in primary care or surgical specialties ? Kaiser may be more primary care focused

 

[treesarefrends]

Are you interested in primary care or surgical specialties ? Kaiser may be more primary care focused

to be honest, not sure. I am interested in women's health, palliative care, health equity research and things of that nature. I dont particularly see myself as a surgeon but would like to conduct research in the future ideally in the East Coast

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

to be honest, not sure. I am interested in women's health, palliative care, health equity research and things of that nature. I dont particularly see myself as a surgeon but would like to conduct research in the future ideally in the East Coast

You should be able to do all that at Kaiser. They have good clinical research.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

In the words of one Aubrey Graham:
“Who's givin' out this much return on investment?
After my run, man, how is that even a question?”

Seriously. It’s not even close. Choose Kaiser. You’ve been given the literal golden ticket to attend medical school in the most desirable and competitive area of the country DEBT FREE.

They’re going to build a world class medical school and you’re getting in on the ground floor.