Kaiser (Full COA) vs. Harvard

[iIiiiiiIiiIiII]

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Hey all,

Thanks for checking out this thread. I think I have made a decision after consulting many people off the internet, but I was curious to know what SDN thought. I've been getting lots of DMs on SDN and Reddit about Kaiser and other choices, so I thought it would be helpful to make a post for anyone who is in a similar situation.

Kaiser
Pros

• FREE, completely - scholarship covering living expenses
• Exciting to be part of an inaugural class, lots of leadership opportunities and a chance to shape the school's culture
• Admin is all-in on making sure you succeed and will pull out all the stops to support you
• Active learning curriculum that fits my learning style well (a lot of it is copied from Harvard's as well)
• Sunny Pasadena weather and amazing food
• Did I mention it was free already?

Neutral

• Virtual anatomy seems....Eh to me
• Not sure what KPSOM's dedication to underserved populations is like - not convinced by their answers
• Not sure if I want to move during the pandemic, but of course I will if I have to (side note: I really feel for KPSOM, second look going virtual and the Step One announcement must have been so frustrating for them)
• KPSOM is touting that a lot of their clinicians have expressed interested in teaching/mentoring students, but do these clinicians have the experience and qualifications to do this successfully?

Cons

• Class of 48 seems too small and risky to me, will be experiencing all of the growing pains of an inaugural class
• Graded clinical rotations against a class of 48, KPSOM noted they decided to go with this option as they need to differentiate students for residency apps
• Less name recognition, wildcard for residency
• Really not happy with how KP handles mental healthcare or the type of psychiatry they do - constantly hearing about clinicians striking due to workload, sued by families of patients who committed suicide due to lack of care, etc.
• I'm intensely skeptical of KP as an institution, and they have a huge stake in NOT making universal healthcare happen (something that is very important to me)
• The curriculum was built specifically to beat Step One (they made this explicit at the interview), and this seems less valuable now
• Step One potentially going pass/fail for my class makes residency applications more uncertain, and more likely to match into a Kaiser residency
• LA traffic (this is not a small factor)

Harvard (Pathways)
Pros

• Name recognition and prestige opens many doors for teaching/academia and more competitive specialties if I decide to switch
• Great setup for future work in academic medicine or clinically-adjacent roles
• Strong personal support system in Boston, I guess I'm technically a local now
• Strong professional support system, I know some of the faculty at Harvard from previous work and am part of nonprofit organizations here
• Top psychiatric hospitals are all in Boston and associated with Harvard
• True P/F, no AOA, school does its best to make students all look great to residency directors and minimize competition
• Pathways curriculum seems great for my learning style and has been tried & tested for the past 6 years

Neutral

• Boston weather doesn't bother me
• Some of the students seemed unhappy at Harvard when I interviewed. On the other hand, while speaking to alums and current students, the vast majority seemed to love it

Cons

• The biggest one: No financial aid - may change in the future as I've had some major financial shifts this year - still an enormous amount of debt with Boston's high COL
• Living in Vanderbilt (dorm) is recommended 1st year
• Institutional giant in a way that's different from KPSOM's association with KP - Harvard has been doing things Harvard's way for years, and it's hard to change it as a lowly student
• Rotating hospitals are generally serving wealthier and more privileged patients (with the exception of CHA)
• Food in Boston is kinda crappy
• Hints of a competitive culture, even though the curriculum is set up to be noncompetitive

Summary: Both schools provide flexibility to me in vastly different ways, and I also take on risk differently depending on my choice. In an ideal world, I'd try out both and see where my life takes me down each fork. Keeping in my mind that my ultimate goal is to become a psychiatrist and I don't want to limit myself to solely patient care for the rest of my career, what would you recommend?

 

[medschoolthrowaway2020]

• Not sure what KPSOM's dedication to underserved populations is like - not convinced by their answers

I don't have answer for you this is a tough choice but one of my considerations with KP was that even if they have you spend like a week a year in a FQHC like they said most of your rotations are at Kaiser sites meaning almost everyone you see has Kaiser insurance. So hopefully you will be able to take the initiative to work with this population through clubs/outreach/etc, but you won't be seeing many patients that are uninsured in your clerkships where you learn. Its my understanding that Harvard associated hospitals aren't really known in Boston for serving this population either but you're still going to see way more of it at Harvard than KP. I'm not sure how important it is to you but just some food for thought.

 

[wagonwheel23]

Talk to Harvard financial aid about whether or not you will ultimately receive aid due to expected changes in your financial situation.

 

[Wolvvs]

• Rotating hospitals are generally serving wealthier and more privileged patients (with the exception of CHA)
• Food in Boston is kinda crappy

I would argue that both of these are wrong. It's true that the wealthier patients are more likely to go to MGH than to the Carney for example and that wealthy patients from around the country/world are going to Partners hospitals/BIDMC, but these still make up the minority of patients. Both Partners and BIDMC accept Medicaid, and even run Medicaid ACOs. I was an EMT doing transport for patients from these hospitals, and the majority of patients that I transported were on some form of Medicaid.

Boston has great food, if you disagree you're going to the wrong places 😛

Overall this is a super tricky decision to make though. I don't know much about Kaiser, but I do know they participate with Medi-Cal to some extent, so they do treat some Medicaid patients. The schools have a very different focus and very different locations. If I were in your position I honestly don't know what I would choose.

 

[iIiiiiiIiiIiII]

I would argue that both of these are wrong. It's true that the wealthier patients are more likely to go to MGH than to the Carney for example and that wealthy patients from around the country/world are going to Partners hospitals/BIDMC, but these still make up the minority of patients. Both Partners and BIDMC accept Medicaid, and even run Medicaid ACOs. I was an EMT doing transport for patients from these hospitals, and the majority of patients that I transported were on some form of Medicaid.

Boston has great food, if you disagree you're going to the wrong places 😛

Overall this is a super tricky decision to make though. I don't know much about Kaiser, but I do know they participate with Medi-Cal to some extent, so they do treat some Medicaid patients. The schools have a very different focus and very different locations. If I were in your position I honestly don't know what I would choose.

HAHA, to each their own about the food! I think the Italian food is AWESOME, but almost everything else makes me pine for NYC and LA.
Thanks for the info from your EMT experience. I'll definitely keep that in mind!!!

Talk to Harvard financial aid about whether or not you will ultimately receive aid due to expected changes in your financial situation.

I did, and received a "Most likely yes" but obviously there's no exact quote. Either way, I anticipate at least a few hundred thousand dollars of debt.

 

[Klyx]

In the setting of you having to apply into an increasingly competitive specialty with potentially no Step 1 score, you want to be applying as a Harvard medical student, not a Kaiser one. Harvard will also give you a lot more exposure to academia to help you decide if you like it. Now if you want to be a community psychiatrist seeing Medicaid patients, going $300K in debt is a financially ruinous idea, and I would recommend that you pick Kaiser in that case. If you are open to any other type of practice, Harvard is a great choice.

 

[iIiiiiiIiiIiII]

Bumping this. Any other thoughts?

 

[thatguyoverthere]

Tough choice for sure. My big hesitation with KP is how new it is especially with everything changing so fast in medicine. 300K is obviously a lot, but imo, unless you're sure you just want to practice and nothing else, then choose Harvard. I personally wouldn't be comfortable playing games with such a new institution, even if it seems to have a strong foundation with the Kaiser system. Just my 2 cents. Others may disagree.

 

[Grapesurgery]

If there is no financial aid at Harvard, the COA of 97k would add up to closer to 400k, before interest. Personally, I think the stress that would come from this is massive and not quite worth it when you have access to a debt-free solid option. Kaiser seems fully dedicated to setting up their small classes with their resources, faculty, etc. Tough choice for sure but I would lean towards KP.

Edit: I’ve been seeing quite a few people weigh KP over other prestigious schools as well with similar financial considerations. This is speculative, of course, but if this is reflective of the caliber of students KP will be matriculating, this is another big plus for them and only likely to give them a stronger reputation.

 

[talkeetnadenali]

I posted something similar on another “help me decide” involving KP:

Everyone knows how incredible Harvard is and the opportunities that abound. An important thing to keep in mind is that hardly anyone on here knows much at all about KPSOM and to them it’s as simple as a debt free new school vs. paying $$$ to attend Harvard. Most folks don’t know about the phenomenal faculty KP has brought in, how they have accepted top tier students (many of whom seem to be leaning towards KP over top 10 schools, based on conversations among students and postings on here), and the excellent opportunities that KP has in place for it’s inaugural class.

Having attended the post-acceptance events and knowing all that the school has to offer, this should give you an improved perception of what the decision of KP vs. Harvard really means - which is hard to fully grasp unless you’re an accepted student. Hopefully this provides some confidence and peace of mind in trusting your own judgment and intuition, as whichever decision you decide to make is well-informed. This helped me make a decision, hope this helps you as well!

 

[emarie05]

Harvard. You will be able to afford to pay off your debt with the opportunities attending Harvard will open for you. Plus being the inaugural class is rocky no matter the school.

 

[thesecretisme123]

I'd go to Harvard because of the doors it will open. Kaiser has a lot of work to do to build up as new medical school so of course they are going to try to sell you hard on their opportunities, which no one has gone through or experienced, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Jty3214]

If money is an issue, the MD Harvard degree will likely open doors into other careers that make $$$ down the line. I'd echo the same points that @thesecretisme123 made. If things are off to a rocky start with the inaugural class, you'll be kicking yourself in the butt and regretting that you turned down a very well and established program like H.

 

[Nerdanese]

Food in Boston is kinda crappy

Aight first of all where have you been eating in Boston because there are tons of good restaurants

Exciting to be part of an inaugural class, lots of leadership opportunities and a chance to shape the school's culture

This is a huge red flag and this is not your goals as a medical student. If you want to shape a med school's culture, go become a doctor then start your own med school or become a dean of one. As a prospective med student, you want to go to the place that will best fit your goals and aspirations.

Also, admin everywhere do not listen to med students (even at really receptive schools), so don't think that you'll be able to change a school just because it's "new". If it helps, the admin at my medical school are receptive to changes, and we are a well-settled school (hint: really old haha).

I think it really boils down to the money vs. Harvard. If you want to do anything remotely competitive, from academic medicine to surgey, Harvard is the way to go. If you just want a nice life as a physician, where money, work-life balance, and working is all you wanna do, Kaiser.

 

[talkeetnadenali]

Aight first of all where have you been eating in Boston because there are tons of good restaurants



This is a huge red flag and this is not your goals as a medical student. If you want to shape a med school's culture, go become a doctor then start your own med school or become a dean of one. As a prospective med student, you want to go to the place that will best fit your goals and aspirations.

Also, admin everywhere do not listen to med students (even at really receptive schools), so don't think that you'll be able to change a school just because it's "new". If it helps, the admin at my medical school are receptive to changes, and we are a well-settled school (hint: really old haha).

I think it really boils down to the money vs. Harvard. If you want to do anything remotely competitive, from academic medicine to surgey, Harvard is the way to go. If you just want a nice life as a physician, where money, work-life balance, and working is all you wanna do, Kaiser.

You seem to be suggesting that competitive/academic residencies are unattainable (or highly difficult to obtain) coming from an inaugural class at a new school, which doesn’t seem to be the case. See the match list for the inaugural class of a fairly new medical school, Oakland Beaumont, from 2015 when their very first class matched: https://www.oakland.edu/Assets/Oakland/medicine/files-and-documents/students/MED-11698_Insert-2.pdf. To save a click: several ortho including one at Pitt, ENT at Sinai, EM at Duke, anesthesia at Michigan, Iowa and MGH; psych at Harvard, among many other solid matches.

As has been mentioned earlier, the students KP is attracting are qualified enough to be deciding between top 5 schools - significantly more competitive than the students Oakland was attracting for their inaugural class. Taking this info together with KP’s high incentive to make their class shine and their resources, I believe that even the most competitive programs will not be out of reach for KP students.

I do agree that landing competitive residencies would almost certainly be easier from Harvard. But the question is how much easier, and is this difference worth $300k+? To me, the evidence suggests no, but this is a personal decision.

I’m biased because I’m choosing KP over a similar option, so take this as you will.

 

[Nerdanese]

You seem to be suggesting that competitive/academic residencies are unattainable (or highly difficult to obtain) coming from an inaugural class at a new school, which doesn’t seem to be the case. See the match list for the inaugural class of a fairly new medical school, Oakland Beaumont, from 2015 when their very first class matched: https://www.oakland.edu/Assets/Oakland/medicine/files-and-documents/students/MED-11698_Insert-2.pdf. To save a click: several ortho including one at Pitt, ENT at Sinai, EM at Duke, anesthesia at Michigan, Iowa and MGH; psych at Harvard, among many other solid matches.

I wouldn't say "unattainable", but very unlikely, and statistically less likely. OB (going by what you saved me the click on), matched 1-2 MGH/Harvard in it's first year? Harvard matched ~30 students to MGH (a quick count probably off) this year. https://meded.hms.harvard.edu/files/hms-med-ed/files/match_list_2020_final_updated.pdf . Obviously Harvard students are going to match into Harvard/MGH residencies, that's why people go to Harvard.

As has been mentioned earlier, the students KP is attracting are qualified enough to be deciding between top 5 schools - significantly more competitive than the students Oakland was attracting for their inaugural class. Taking this info together with KP’s high incentive to make their class shine and their resources, I believe that even the most competitive programs will not be out of reach for KP students.

It's a new school, there's no telling what the results will be, that's the bet you're banking on. The top 5-10 medical schools did not form overnight, so any new school I am taking with a grain of salt. NYU was an established school before going tuition-free to attract the competitive students away from places like Harvard and Stanford, and I'm not sure how that has translated to them becoming more competitive in residency applications, we will have to see in 3-4 years.

I completely understand that you're biased, and I'm sure I'm biased too in my own way of thought. Choosing Kaiser over Harvard is not inherently a bad choice, but one must be honest with themself: choosing Kaiser over Harvard is a financial choice, not a prestigious or opportunity choice.

I personally would take $300k in debt to go to Harvard, it's arguably the best medical school out there, I value the prestige, opportunities, and connections over coming out debt-free. But I understand that that's not everybody's opinion though.

 

[longhaul3]

I'd choose Harvard. The med ed landscape is in constant flux right now, with so much about the next 1-3 years being uncertain. In times of uncertainty, play conservatively. Nobody knows what will happen with step 1, step 2, or covid or any of covid's downstream effects. No matter what happens with any of those, you will still be on top coming from Harvard. Not necessarily so from KP.

 

[Yhwach]

Harvard. Kaiser is unknown (as a med school).

 

[9blade]

You seem to be suggesting that competitive/academic residencies are unattainable (or highly difficult to obtain) coming from an inaugural class at a new school, which doesn’t seem to be the case. See the match list for the inaugural class of a fairly new medical school, Oakland Beaumont, from 2015 when their very first class matched: https://www.oakland.edu/Assets/Oakland/medicine/files-and-documents/students/MED-11698_Insert-2.pdf. To save a click: several ortho including one at Pitt, ENT at Sinai, EM at Duke, anesthesia at Michigan, Iowa and MGH; psych at Harvard, among many other solid matches.

As has been mentioned earlier, the students KP is attracting are qualified enough to be deciding between top 5 schools - significantly more competitive than the students Oakland was attracting for their inaugural class. Taking this info together with KP’s high incentive to make their class shine and their resources, I believe that even the most competitive programs will not be out of reach for KP students.

I do agree that landing competitive residencies would almost certainly be easier from Harvard. But the question is how much easier, and is this difference worth $300k+? To me, the evidence suggests no, but this is a personal decision.

I’m biased because I’m choosing KP over a similar option, so take this as you will.

At first I was leaning KP bc it's obviously free and evidence from new schools show their students have matched well. I have a friend who is a fist year at Dell and she told me that their inaugural class had a great match with many going into surgical subspecialties and Derm. However, my big fear here is that the inaugural class all took Step1 and could distinguish themselves from students at other schools. At a new place like KP, there's no step 1 anymore for the incoming students when applying for residency. I understand there's Step2, but it's just a little too risky for me to take that chance. To me, if OP is 100% sure he just wants to do community psych, then I would choose KP and not look back, but if there is any doubt and he may be interested in something semi competitive, I would take Harvard. I just couldn't risk it.

 

[Skittsie13]

At first I was leaning KP bc it's obviously free and evidence from new schools show their students have matched well. I have a friend who is a fist year at Dell and she told me that their inaugural class had a great match with many going into surgical subspecialties and Derm. However, my big fear here is that the inaugural class all took Step1 and could distinguish themselves from students at other schools. At a new place like KP, there's no step 1 anymore for the incoming students when applying for residency. I understand there's Step2, but it's just a little too risky for me to take that chance. To me, if OP is 100% sure he just wants to do community psych, then I would choose KP and not look back, but if there is any doubt and he may be interested in something semi competitive, I would take Harvard. I just couldn't risk it.

Match List 2020 - post what you got

Match List for 2020! Western Michigan Homer Stryker School of Medicine (WMed) https://med.wmich.edu/node/2289 Pretty impressive they got neurosurgery (UofM), Derm, ortho, IR

forums.studentdoctor.net

This is the link to Dell's first match list FYI. Looks like about 25% in the most competitive subspecialties, which seems good but the IM match list is pretty weak imo

 

[iIiiiiiIiiIiII]

Thanks everyone for your replies! I’m curious because the quantity of replies seems to point towards Harvard but the pro-Kaiser posts have a lot of likes. I also felt that this forum leans towards picking the cheapest option. So I’m wondering if these people could comment too.

 

[2020NonTrad]

So I've posted about Kaiser vs Vanderbilt. Kaiser would be free and with Vanderbilt I'd come out with $200k in debt. I turned down full price offers at Yale and Pitt. I've thought about the decision a lot, and while I haven't made a final decision yet, I'm leaning toward Kaiser. I think that a lot of people on SDN take debt lightly and there's a general "you'll be able to pay it back" attitude. While, yes, you will be able to pay it back, I don't think that paints the whole picture. How long are you willing to live like a student? Are you willing to put off the vacation you want, the house you want, having children, saving for retirement, etc. in order to pay off loans? If you make payments during residency, certainly having less expendable income makes life harder and has the potential to greatly increase stress and burnout. There is also some evidence (albeit weak) that debt has an impact on specialty choice, and I've read stories of physicians that have chosen to skip fellowships they wanted to do because they needed to start paying off their loans.

When I got into this process, I did so fully expecting to go into significant debt. I knew it was worth it to do what I wanted to do, and I never dreamed I'd have a debt free option. I'm in my late 20s, and if I went $200k in debt and did a 3 year residency, I wouldn't be out of debt until my late 30s at best. A 5 year or longer residency, or start adding fellowships, and I wouldn't be out of debt until my 40s. As a career changer coming from a first responder job paying OK money (a bit less than what a resident makes), I wouldn't have the purchasing power I do now until I was out of debt. That's a long time to sacrifice financial freedom. For me, practicing medicine is very important, but my life outside of medicine also matters.

Now I'm not saying to choose Kaiser just because of money, or that that is what I'm doing. Kaiser, as others have said, has a lot to offer outside of money, but it's also a risk. I'm 100% certain that you would have an easier time matching into whatever you ultimately choose from Harvard. You'd also make amazing connections there. Conversely, in talking to the faculty of Kaiser, I don't think it's as big of a risk as it appears. What I mean is that Kaiser isn't the average "new school." They've put an incredible amount of resources until the school, have amassed a prestigious and extremely competent faculty, and are very invested in the success of the students. I am completely certain that Kaiser will match better than other recently opened medical schools.

It's a hard decision for sure, and I'm still struggling with it. Best of luck!

 

[Tenk]

Man I would pick Kaiser in a heart beat. I would have gone to med school in a dumpster if it was for free.

 

[Chad12]

Think longterm. The Harvard MD will open up doors down the road that you don't even know exist yet. Example 1: You decide you want to pursue a super competitive subspecialty late in third year but your step score is below average for that specialty(but not terribly so) and you don't have research in the field, but the Program Directors see harvard on your application and give you a chance. Example 2: 20 years down the road You have a crazy idea that will revolutionize the american healthcare system but you need funding to launch your project. You go meet with potential investors, they see you went to harvard and that you know so and so, they gladly write you a check.

The second example might be an oversimplification but the trend will hold true. The point is, the degree will pay for itself, choose harvard and don't look back.

 

[Pluto98]

Think longterm. The Harvard MD will open up doors down the road that you don't even know exist yet. Example 1: You decide you want to pursue a super competitive subspecialty late in third year but your step score is below average for that specialty(but not terribly so) and you don't have research in the field, but the Program Directors see harvard on your application and give you a chance. Example 2: 20 years down the road You have a crazy idea that will revolutionize the american healthcare system but you need funding to launch your project. You go meet with potential investors, they see you went to harvard and that you know so and so, they gladly write you a check.

The second example might be an oversimplification but the trend will hold true. The point is, the degree will pay for itself, choose harvard and don't look back.

does your point hold true for other top schools like duke, penn, yale, ucsf..... or only harvard?

 

[Nugester]

Pay 400K or 0 to hang two letters after my name. I'd choose Kaiser.

 

[docbsb2015]

This isn't even close. You get to graduate without a single dime in loans, whereas you graduate with 400,000 at the other. Foolish to turn that down. You'll be fine at Kaiser.

 

[Grapesurgery]

Think longterm. The Harvard MD will open up doors down the road that you don't even know exist yet. Example 1: You decide you want to pursue a super competitive subspecialty late in third year but your step score is below average for that specialty(but not terribly so) and you don't have research in the field, but the Program Directors see harvard on your application and give you a chance. Example 2: 20 years down the road You have a crazy idea that will revolutionize the american healthcare system but you need funding to launch your project. You go meet with potential investors, they see you went to harvard and that you know so and so, they gladly write you a check.

The second example might be an oversimplification but the trend will hold true. The point is, the degree will pay for itself, choose harvard and don't look back.

I feel you have chosen two quite specific, and honestly somewhat unlikely situations to try and oversell the meaning of a school name. Honestly by the achievements of OP, I’m willing to bet they’ll fare well at the least in medical school and on Step. Also for these two scenarios, what would weigh more is ones accomplishments/residency training for the latter. Looking for funders for your revolutionary healthcare project? I imagine that previous papers published, organizations created or participated in, among a ton of other things, etc. will take precedence over your school name. No doubt, it can give a decent edge, but saying you essentially need to go to Harvard or bust to accomplish anything outside of strictly medicine is, well, wild. Since this poster seems to be a fan of extreme examples, yeah, that surgeon general Jerome Adams we’ve been seeing a lot of in Covid news? Yeah, MD from Indiana SOM *gasp!*

It is too simplistic to believe the name of a medical school will carry you everywhere and anywhere.
I personally do not believe the 400k racked on for a marginal edge in a “what-if” scenario in the future is worth it.

As for “the Harvard name will pay for itself”— as others have stated in the thread, you’ll likely be paid just the same as your fellow residents/attendings despite the distinction.

 

[finn_]

I think both are great choices and no one could fault you for picking either. One thing I’d recommend is to use the AAMC loan calculator to see what your total repayment/monthly payments would be. I was shocked to see that on a $90K/yr CoA I would be paying back $600,000 in >$5K/month payments for 10 years. It seeems like yours would be similar. The cost certainly isn’t the only thing that matters and HMS is an INCREDIBLE opportunity, but it’s also important to consider what having that extra money would do for your goals and happiness.

 

[strappysandals]

I think both are great choices and no one could fault you for picking either. One thing I’d recommend is to use the AAMC loan calculator to see what your total repayment/monthly payments would be. I was shocked to see that on a $90K/yr CoA I would be paying back $600,000 in >$5K/month payments for 10 years. It seeems like yours would be similar. The cost certainly isn’t the only thing that matters and HMS is an INCREDIBLE opportunity, but it’s also important to consider what having that extra money would do for your goals and happiness.

Agreed. I am not looking forward to taking on this massive debt. I cant even imagine what getting a full-COA scholarship to a medical school is like. Talk about winning the lottery. In this case, that acceptance email to Kaiser is alone worth 600,000 dollars. holy **** Id like 600,000 dollars just plopped into my inbox....

OP please dont get sucked into the "prestige" trap, it is not worth it in this scenario.

 

[Icebird]

All the people saying to take the 400k degree with accumulating interest over the debt free experience speaks volumes about both the upbringing and bubble most SDNers are in.

OP, take the money and run

 

[deleted987519]

All the people saying to take the 400k degree with accumulating interest over the debt free experience speaks volumes about both the upbringing and bubble most SDNers are in.

OP, take the money and run

OP made the lethal mistake of not being born into a wealthy family to front the 400K COA at Harvard.

Hate to see it.

 

[glee123]

Just to remove any doubt: Kaiser 100%. Best of luck and congrats!

 

[iIiiiiiIiiIiII]

Hi all, thanks so much again for your replies to this thread and your input. I'm especially grateful to the kind folks who DM'ed me to discuss similar dilemmas. I chose Harvard for a variety of reasons. I realized HMS is better for me in every way except for the financial piece - it provides better preparation for psychiatry, I have a really strong support system here (something I feel is undervalued on SDN), and it guarantees future opportunities (including an excellent residency) that will help me get the career that I want, especially as I'd like to expand beyond clinical care. My gut feeling points me to HMS after two months of deliberation.

Ultimately, I trust that I am going to be able to pay off the debt comfortably enough, and making a lot of money is not one of my biggest priorities for choosing medicine. This is NOT to pass judgment on those who enter medicine with this reason as everyone joins the field for different motivations - this is MY personal principle. What I have known since the start is that I'm not actually looking to make a ton of money, I just want a career that I feel happy and fulfilled in. I know the debt is going to involve a different lifestyle, but I don't have to conceptualize it completely as a loss. Based on what I currently know, HMS is the one to set me up best for the career that will make me happy and fulfilled.

I learned a few things from reading this thread and talking to other applicants: the med school decision is an incredibly personal choice, and it's going to be different for every individual based on their needs and priorities. Most of the time when someone tells you what school you should take, unequivocally, without knowing you well - that says more about their priorities and values than yours. I feel that this school choice was reductively (but unsurprisingly) reframed as a "free tuition vs. prestige" debate. If you looked at my original post and personal situation, it is far more than that to me. (Though it is undeniable that both the free tuition and the HMS prestige are huge parts of this.) I realized that whatever choice I made would invite intense judgment - "How could you turn down a full ride!! So privileged" "How could you turn down Harvard!! People would kill to attend" Money and prestige are extremely sensitive and difficult topics for most people, so I understand why people feel strongly one way or the other. But I have to put those voices aside and make the best decision for me.

I really wish I could attend both schools. Many of the students Kaiser accepted seem to be really wonderful people, and there is something so thrilling about being part of the inaugural class. I hope this thread can help others get some insight into their personal decisionmaking process, whether it's for this cycle or future ones to come. Stay safe & healthy everyone!

EDIT: Added a few more sentences/rephrasing