Lab animal vets? + how important is animal experience?

[adriata88]

Hi there everyone!
I'm a freshman in college and I've recently been interested in the field of lab animal veterinary medicine, and potentially becoming board certified in this field (long road ahead, I know). I currently have 400+ hours working at a SA hospital, but not much vet/animal experience beyond this. I have found a research position with lab animals and will be starting shortly; these two experiences will be long-term and I am aiming for over 2000 hours in combined experience.

I am hoping to also obtain veterinary experience in either equine/large animal/exotics eventually. My question is, how important is *animal* experience? I have not volunteered at any animal shelters, done 4H, animal caretaking, etc. Between my long term veterinary experiences, I'm not sure how much time I can dedicate to an animal experience position.

If there are any lab animal vets, I would also love to hear about your experiences and any advice you have!

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[SkiOtter]

Paging @kcoughli

 

[KCgophervet]

Hi there everyone!
I'm a freshman in college and I've recently been interested in the field of lab animal veterinary medicine, and potentially becoming board certified in this field (long road ahead, I know). I currently have 400+ hours working at a SA hospital, but not much vet/animal experience beyond this. I have found a research position with lab animals and will be starting shortly; these two experiences will be long-term and I am aiming for over 2000 hours in combined experience.

I am hoping to also obtain veterinary experience in either equine/large animal/exotics eventually. My question is, how important is *animal* experience? I have not volunteered at any animal shelters, done 4H, animal caretaking, etc. Between my long term veterinary experiences, I'm not sure how much time I can dedicate to an animal experience position.

If there are any lab animal vets, I would also love to hear about your experiences and any advice you have!

Animal experience is, in my opinion, not as important as veterinary experience. However any sort of volunteer experience is usually helpful.

Is your upcoming research position with lab animals working in a research lab? If so, kudos and my advice is to work hard and see if it's possible to get a first authored publication in a peer-reviewed journal in your time there. This may not be possible, but it's a nice bonus when applying to residency positions. If it's as an animal caretaker, make nice with the other staff and technicians and learn what you can about the care of various species.

In either case, introduce yourself to the lab animal vet that takes care of the animals you'll be working with. Try to foster a good relationship with them - it's a small field and networking always helps.

As far as any other specific advice, I'm not really sure how to help exactly but my PM box is always open if you have questions. My story was: got scared off vet med in undergrad, graduated with a bio degree, worked in a research lab, realized lab animal vets were a thing (who knew?!), went back to vet school, and just started a lab animal residency.

Also paging @Lab Vet 🙂

 

[adriata88]

Animal experience is, in my opinion, not as important as veterinary experience. However any sort of volunteer experience is usually helpful.

Is your upcoming research position with lab animals working in a research lab? If so, kudos and my advice is to work hard and see if it's possible to get a first authored publication in a peer-reviewed journal in your time there. This may not be possible, but it's a nice bonus when applying to residency positions. If it's as an animal caretaker, make nice with the other staff and technicians and learn what you can about the care of various species.

In either case, introduce yourself to the lab animal vet that takes care of the animals you'll be working with. Try to foster a good relationship with them - it's a small field and networking always helps.

As far as any other specific advice, I'm not really sure how to help exactly but my PM box is always open if you have questions. My story was: got scared off vet med in undergrad, graduated with a bio degree, worked in a research lab, realized lab animal vets were a thing (who knew?!), went back to vet school, and just started a lab animal residency.

Also paging @Lab Vet 🙂

Yes, my upcoming research position is working in a cancer research labs where they use mice as models. When I spoke to the PI, he told me that it's good I'm starting early because then I'll be able to get a published paper later on, which I'm really excited about!
Could you give me a basic summary of what a lab animal veterinarian does? Do most lab animal vets work just with rodents? What kinds of environments will allow me to work with more diverse species?
Based off your vet school and now residency, what classes would be beneficial for me to take in college (specifically for lab animal medicine), besides the pre-reqs? I'm guessing micro must be one of them. I know these are a lot of questions - I wasn't able to find many resources for aspiring lab animal vets, probably because it's such a small field, like you said. Thank you!

 

[LetItSnow]

I know these are a lot of questions - I wasn't able to find many resources for aspiring lab animal vets, probably because it's such a small field, like you said. Thank you!

They are a lot of questions, but they are refreshingly good questions, and we have plenty of smart people around here to answer them. Don't feel bad launching questions.

 

[SkiOtter]

They are a lot of questions, but they are refreshingly good questions, and we have plenty of smart people around here to answer them. Don't feel bad launching questions.

But not you, since you're not an adult😉😛

 

[LetItSnow]

But not you, since you're not an adult😉😛

You'll notice I didn't include myself. 🙂 Lab animal medicine is a big dark black hole as far as I'm concerned.

 

[adriata88]

You'll notice I didn't include myself. 🙂 Lab animal medicine is a big dark black hole as far as I'm concerned.

Oh boy, what's that supposed to mean?

 

[KCgophervet]

Yes, my upcoming research position is working in a cancer research labs where they use mice as models. When I spoke to the PI, he told me that it's good I'm starting early because then I'll be able to get a published paper later on, which I'm really excited about!

That's great! One of the requirements to eventually sit for the board exam (to become lab animal board-certified) is to have a first authored publication in a peer reviewed journal. While that's still a ways off for you, if you can get one during undergrad you'll be that many steps ahead (plus have less stress to worry about later).

Could you give me a basic summary of what a lab animal veterinarian does?

Oh boy, that's actually a tough question! Lab animal vets vary in what they typically do, some work in research labs doing benchtop scientific research, some are more clinical vets who are responsible for the health and well being of the animals being used in research (the latter category is where I hope to end up). Basically, my idea of lab animal medicine is being involved in keeping the welfare of the research animals a top priority. This means everything from suturing monkey wounds to trimming mouse teeth to sitting on IACUC committees reading over research protocols to determine if they have justified the use of even using animals in a research project.

Do most lab animal vets work just with rodents?

I wouldn't say most work "just" with rodents, but for sure rodents make up probably ~85% or more of all lab animals. However, the diversity of species is one of the things that has drawn me to lab animal medicine. For example, just at the university I'm currently at there are macaques, baboons, naked mole rats, rabbits, pigs, dogs, mice, zebrafish, frogs, turtles, salamanders, guinea pigs, lampreys, and I am probably even forgetting a few. While most lab animal vets do work with rodents, I wouldn't say most only work with rodents.

What kinds of environments will allow me to work with more diverse species?

Honestly, just have to look into the size of the research institution and what their goals are. When I worked at a medical device company they mostly had pigs and sheep (because those were the right sizes for the devices they were testing). A bigger university is going to have a larger census of overall animal numbers and also more likely to have more diverse research (and thus species) than a smaller university. But it really just depends on the projects that are going on. In vet school it's a good idea to take all the zoo/exotic classes you can because you never know when the next investigator wants to bring in owls or woodchucks or bats for their research.

Based off your vet school and now residency, what classes would be beneficial for me to take in college (specifically for lab animal medicine), besides the pre-reqs? I'm guessing micro must be one of them.

Honestly, I'd just take the pre-requisite classes for vet school because that is going to be the first hurdle. If you are in need of more, I thought animal behavior is always interesting (positive reinforcement training can be a big thing in lab animal medicine to train the animals to make sample collection or exams easier - for pigs, dogs, monkeys, etc).

I know these are a lot of questions - I wasn't able to find many resources for aspiring lab animal vets, probably because it's such a small field, like you said. Thank you!

Some sites/organizations that might help are AALAS, ASLAP, and ACLAM. Not a lot of specifically undergrad resources but can give you an idea of lab animal organizations in general.

Also feel free to send me a private message now or if you have more questions down the road. I love talking about this field 🙂

 

[LetItSnow]

Oh boy, what's that supposed to mean?

Just that I know absolutely nothing about it. Which is why I didn't answer any of your questions. I just was impressed by the questions. 🙂

 

[adriata88]

@kcoughli Wow, reading your post has me fascinated about the field - I absolutely will reach out to you when I have more questions (think I've exhausted all the ones on my mind for now) Thank you!
@LetItSnow Haha, gotcha! It's so cool how the profession has so many different niches, I love that about vet med. My questions are probably only refreshing because it's juxtaposed with another recent post on this forum.. 😉

 

[LetItSnow]

@LetItSnow Haha, gotcha! It's so cool how the profession has so many different niches, I love that about vet med. My questions are probably only refreshing because it's juxtaposed with another recent post on this forum.. 😉

Nah. People like that come 'n go all the time. It's really more amusing than anything.

 

[Golden Eagle 12]

Hey, I'm a current second year vet student whose interested in lab animal medicine and agree with everything said so far. In terms of electives during undergrad that may be helpful I would include an intro to psych type of class, since it can be helpful to learn about the different conditioning paradigms. Also, if your undergrad has any classes that use animals, like an experimental physiology course, it can help give some more perspective into other aspects of animal research/biology and can be an interesting experience overall. Lastly, while in vet school, I would additionally recommend looking at the different research opportunities for vet students during the summer breaks of their first two years.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

Yes, my upcoming research position is working in a cancer research labs where they use mice as models. When I spoke to the PI, he told me that it's good I'm starting early because then I'll be able to get a published paper later on, which I'm really excited about!
Could you give me a basic summary of what a lab animal veterinarian does? Do most lab animal vets work just with rodents? What kinds of environments will allow me to work with more diverse species?
Based off your vet school and now residency, what classes would be beneficial for me to take in college (specifically for lab animal medicine), besides the pre-reqs? I'm guessing micro must be one of them. I know these are a lot of questions - I wasn't able to find many resources for aspiring lab animal vets, probably because it's such a small field, like you said. Thank you!

I just want to say I am so envious of you getting this experience so early. I wish I had been this on top of things when I was starting college. 🙂 Best of luck to you!

 

[KCgophervet]

Hey, I'm a current second year vet student whose interested in lab animal medicine and agree with everything said so far. In terms of electives during undergrad that may be helpful I would include an intro to psych type of class, since it can be helpful to learn about the different conditioning paradigms. Also, if your undergrad has any classes that use animals, like an experimental physiology course, it can help give some more perspective into other aspects of animal research/biology and can be an interesting experience overall. Lastly, while in vet school, I would additionally recommend looking at the different research opportunities for vet students during the summer breaks of their first two years.

Another one! Yay I love finding more of us!

As an aside - I recommend the summer scholars program (or summer research) for between 1st and 2nd year (unless you're like me and did 4 years of working in research labs between undergrad and vet school). However, I would HIGHLY recommend applying for an ASLAP summer fellowship for between 2nd and 3rd year of vet school. Talking to my program director and she straight up told me that they are hard pressed to rank someone who's only met them for a day or done an interview or even a 2 week externship over someone who spent an entire summer working with them. Plus if you're like me and more interested in being a clinical veterinarian that networking and "actual vet stuff" you get to do on the summer fellowship was so much more useful to me than 1 more summer research project (not to mention most of the ASLAP summer fellowships - if not all - also typically include a summer project of some sort).

 

[KCgophervet]

I just want to say I am so envious of you getting this experience so early. I wish I had been this on top of things when I was starting college. 🙂 Best of luck to you!

I know right?

 

[adriata88]

Hey, I'm a current second year vet student whose interested in lab animal medicine and agree with everything said so far. In terms of electives during undergrad that may be helpful I would include an intro to psych type of class, since it can be helpful to learn about the different conditioning paradigms. Also, if your undergrad has any classes that use animals, like an experimental physiology course, it can help give some more perspective into other aspects of animal research/biology and can be an interesting experience overall. Lastly, while in vet school, I would additionally recommend looking at the different research opportunities for vet students during the summer breaks of their first two years.

Never thought of psych having applications in lab animal medicine, but now I can certainly see how it could be applicable - and my school does have an Animal Science major (I'm personally planning on being a Bio major) so I plan on taking some anatomy/physiology courses from that department. Thank you!

I just want to say I am so envious of you getting this experience so early. I wish I had been this on top of things when I was starting college. 🙂 Best of luck to you!

Haha thank you! There are a million ways to get to vet school/future careers and getting into a lab just happened to be one of my top priorities as a freshman.

 

[johnsmith123]

I work in a diagnostic pathology lab and have seen quite a bit of lab animal medicine. I was surprised by how many opportunities exist in this specific field. I am with a fairly large research based University and we have mice, rats, guinea pigs, pigs, mini pigs (cutest things ever), monkeys, cattle, zebra fish, zebra finches, goats, sheep, and probably some more I'm not thinking of. We have a vet pathologist, a few large animal vets, a few vets for the other animals, vets who work with IACUC to maintain animal welfare, etc. A lot of our research teams also hire their own vets on to help with their research.

If you are at a University that has an animal research program in place, it's worth contacting them to see if they can also get you some experience on top of your research. There are some biosecurity concerns when it comes to animal research, so it might be more difficult to get involved with the veterinarian(s) but it's worth a try. From what I have seen though, lab animal vets can spend significantly more time in their office as opposed to doing hands on work with animals compared to other types of vets (not to say that other types of vets don't have mountains of paperwork). This is probably an artifact of the fact that if a lab animal gets exceptionally sick or injured, it can be difficult for the PI to justify spending the money on treatment when they could humanely euthanize and exclude the data from the study. That's just something to consider if you want to go into this specific field as you might not be doing as much hands on work with the animals, depending on what your specific role ends up being.

 

[Teepster87]

I started off being really interested in lab animal med, but I don't think I'll end up pursuing it. I too started as a husbandry person for a mouse and rat colony and gradually worked my way up to doing some benchtop science stuff and breeding. I THINK I was able to join AALAS for free as a student (it was a few years ago, maybe it was $25/year idk) that let me get access to their learning library and I was able to do a bunch of modules on different things ( regulations, species specific stuff, etc). It was really helpful, and I was trying to set myself up to get a Lab Animal Tech cert.
I eventually linked up with a vet who was doing her residency in LAM and was able to shadow her for a semester. They saw mice, rats, sheep, pigs, and cows usually. I really liked it and learned a lot.

 

[Lab Vet]

Thanks for the invite, kcoughli 🙂

Hi OP. I'm a fourth-year student 100% committed to pursuing specialization in lab animal medicine. I had originally intended to attend vet school straight out of undergrad, but had some excellent experiences in research while completing my bachelor's degree. As such, I chose the research route and enrolled in a PhD program (physiology). Several years into my program, I realized that the life of an academic scientist wasn't for me. I dreaded the grant/manuscript writing (the bread and butter role of senior academics). While in grad school, I developed a close professional relationship with my institution's attending veterinarian (head vet who oversees the sum total of the animal program). His care and attention to research animal welfare inspired me to pursue this career. Following my departure from grad school, I worked with lab animals in both academic and industrial settings prior to commencing vet school. I'm now exactly one week away from submitting my applications for this cycle's lab animal residency match.

Try not to think of any type of experience as a 'box to check' on an application. The purpose of an experience requirement is to show you, the applicant, what a given career field/working with certain species is really like. Although 'veterinary' experience has greater weight when it comes to the vet school application game, I wouldn't discard animal experience entirely. During my last period of full-time employment (prior to vet school), I volunteered for three years as a husbandry assistant at my city's zoo. This was unpaid, dirty, challenging work- that I absolutely loved! I met some wonderful people, every bit as committed to animal welfare as I am, and learned a lot about how zoos operate 'behind the scenes.' Definitely worth it, and classified as 'animal' experience on my VMCAS application. If you're employed in a research lab, be aware that very little of your work may actually involved handling of live animals. Much of your work may involve specific assays (PCR, enzyme activity, etc.) and certainly crunching numbers. If you're looking for quality 'lab animal' experience, I would recommend shadowing a lab animal veterinarian, or even the technicians who work in various lab animal facilities. Those folks have loads of good experience and information to share. My goal isn't to deter you from working in a research lab, just a plug in favor of quality 'animal' experience as well.

Specialization in lab animal medicine comes AFTER veterinary school. My adviser said it best- 'Lab animal veterinarians are FIRST and foremost, veterinarians.' Although vets may specialize in the treatment of a specific animal taxa (or many), at base, the practice of veterinary medicine is relatively consistent among all. The purpose of vet school is to teach you how to think and solve problems like a doctor- a cow doctor, a rodent doctor, a horse doctor, a dog doctor. It doesn't matter if it barks, whinnies, chatters, or growls- the process of gathering data and organizing your thoughts to appropriately diagnose/treat illness is the same. At this stage, you need to confirm that you want to be a vet (forget about lab animal for now). This function (more than the specialization) should excite you, it should be something that you look forward to doing- because ultimately, that will be your job.

As mentioned previously, lab animal vets are employed in a variety of environments and perform many different roles- these can essentially be categorized into clinical, administrative/managerial, and regulatory responsibilities. Generally speaking (although certainly not in all cases), clinical responsibilities tend to decrease with increasing experience/rank/position/authority At the height of a lab animal vet's career, he or she may be the director of a program, a job requiring a well-developed managerial and administrative skills. Be sure to ask lab animal vets what they actually do- is it all clinical, how much time is devoted to finances/cost setting, protocol review, staff oversight, etc.

Lab animal medicine is arguably the quintessential mixed animal practice- I've worked with horses and alligators in a research setting, in addition to the more traditional lab animal species (i.e. rodents, rabbits).

The suggestions already made re: summer work are good ones. I would add one caveat, though. Spending 3 months at a site does not necessarily make for a good fit between you and the program (or vice versa). When match season roles around, it would be prudent not to apply to a single program. As such, sometimes the best exposure to other programs you can get is a few days/weeks on site. There definitely are people accepted to residency programs who haven't spent a month at the target site.

You're in the infancy of your career. Enjoy undergrad, work hard in your classes, and explore various avenues related to vet med that interest you. Vet school should be the time when you ramp up and double-down your efforts to secure industry-specific experience. That's quite a way's off- we'll be here should you have any additional questions. Best of success!

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

I have questions about lab animal medicine. How competitive is it to get a residency? How widespread are job opportunities?

Are there specific schools that are better than others? I think most people will answer no as they do for this question relating to other specialties. If not, are there any specific programs to check to see if a school has?

 

[Balesofhay]

As an aside - I recommend the summer scholars program (or summer research) for between 1st and 2nd year (

Popping in on this bit. When I was looking at internships a couple years ago, Iowa State(I think) had an Animal Behavior REU program so that might be right up your alley. That would get the research side and the behavior experience in one shot. You have plenty of time to figure that out though. The applications for that should be opening up soon but you definelty don’t have to apply as a rising sophomore

 

[KCgophervet]

I have questions about lab animal medicine. How competitive is it to get a residency?

I think it depends on the year. There are typically around 30 programs that run through the match (and a few outside of the match). Competitiveness depends on the applicant pool (similar to vet school), the average stats, and the number of applicants. While there are typically minimum GPA requirements, I think experience and demonstrated commitment to the field is given more weight (along with references).

How widespread are job opportunities?

I would answer "okay" to this. There are definitely jobs out there, but it's not like GP where you can move to any major metropolitan area and probably find a job. If you're flexible with location, the jobs exist, but realize that the jobs are where they are (and new ones typically only open when someone retires). Larger research universities, other large research facilities (hospitals, VAs), medical device companies, contract research organizations, and pharmaceutical companies are where the jobs are typically at.

Are there specific schools that are better than others? I think most people will answer no as they do for this question relating to other specialties. If not, are there any specific programs to check to see if a school has?

Yes. I will say that, similar to zoo med, some schools have better support and opportunities in place than others. UMN just recently had their first elective class for lab animal medicine last year and just started an official rotation my year. That being said, you can make opportunities in lab animal wherever you go - most schools will be affiliated with a lab animal vet in some capacity or another, it's just about reaching out and making those connections and opportunities for yourself.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions 🙂

 

[Lab Vet]

I think it depends on the year. There are typically around 30 programs that run through the match (and a few outside of the match). Competitiveness depends on the applicant pool (similar to vet school), the average stats, and the number of applicants. While there are typically minimum GPA requirements, I think experience and demonstrated commitment to the field is given more weight (along with references).


I would answer "okay" to this. There are definitely jobs out there, but it's not like GP where you can move to any major metropolitan area and probably find a job. If you're flexible with location, the jobs exist, but realize that the jobs are where they are (and new ones typically only open when someone retires). Larger research universities, other large research facilities (hospitals, VAs), medical device companies, contract research organizations, and pharmaceutical companies are where the jobs are typically at.


Yes. I will say that, similar to zoo med, some schools have better support and opportunities in place than others. UMN just recently had their first elective class for lab animal medicine last year and just started an official rotation my year. That being said, you can make opportunities in lab animal wherever you go - most schools will be affiliated with a lab animal vet in some capacity or another, it's just about reaching out and making those connections and opportunities for yourself.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions 🙂

Agreed, on all counts.