Latest date to get in fourth year letters?

[nope80]

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When do programs typically look at letters and when is the typical date most people have fourth year letters in? When is the latest date that one could submit and still have them matter?

I'm asking because I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that you can submit eras september 1st without all your letters and have them trickle in later? Is this a big problem or do most people do it this way?? With the way my schedule will work out, there is no way I could have any fourth year letters by sept 1st. I'm just wondering how big of a disadvantage this will be and when the latest is that I could submit.

Thanks!

 

[smq123]

I'm asking because I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that you can submit eras september 1st without all your letters and have them trickle in later?

Yep, you definitely can.

Is this a big problem or do most people do it this way??

No, most people do it this way.

When do programs typically look at letters and when is the typical date most people have fourth year letters in? When is the latest date that one could submit and still have them matter?

The latest you can submit is traditionally considered to be November 1st. That's the day that the dean's letter (= MSPE) goes out for all schools, and usually once programs receive that, they stop downloading further information from your application.

 

[nope80]

And how about step 2? If one is trying to compensate for low step 1 - does the score absolutely need to be IN before Sept 1st or can it be in before October and have the same effect? (Since they don't start looking until October) Or is it that if you submit by sept 1st and you have a low step 1 without a step 2 you will just be filtered out by the system before they even read your application come october?

 

[smq123]

And how about step 2? If one is trying to compensate for low step 1 - does the score absolutely need to be IN before Sept 1st or can it be in before October and have the same effect? (Since they don't start looking until October) Or is it that if you submit by sept 1st and you have a low step 1 without a step 2 you will just be filtered out by the system before they even read your application come october?

A lot of this depends on what field you're applying for.

Some programs may filter you out based on a low step 1, even if you have a better step 2 score come in before Sept. 1.

 

[nope80]

A lot of this depends on what field you're applying for.

Some programs may filter you out based on a low step 1, even if you have a better step 2 score come in before Sept. 1.

I'm not sure I'm thinking internal meds or rads (depends on my score).

But I guess i'm wondering, is the filter implemented on september 1st or is it implemented when they look at the application? If I do a lot better on step 2, will it be important to get it in BEFORE sept 1st or can it wait until the end of september (before they look at the applications). Basically I want to know if it is necessary to get it in before they review apps or literally before sept 1st (even if they dont review the application until october). Does that make sense? Sorry for the confusing question!

 

[gutonc]

I'm not sure I'm thinking internal meds or rads (depends on my score).

But I guess i'm wondering, is the filter implemented on september 1st or is it implemented when they look at the application? If I do a lot better on step 2, will it be important to get it in BEFORE sept 1st or can it wait until the end of september (before they look at the applications). Basically I want to know if it is necessary to get it in before they review apps or literally before sept 1st (even if they dont review the application until october). Does that make sense? Sorry for the confusing question!

Filters are implemented whenever the PD/PC wants. A filtered application doesn't go in the trash, it's just not visible to the PD, unless they change their filter.

aPD has explained how filters work (and don't work) many times. the short answer is that, if your Step 1 score is 200 and a program has a cutoff of 210 for Step 1, your application will not be viewed, regardless of your Step 2 score. If OTOH, a program has a filter that asks for Step 1 OR Step 2 >210 and you rock Step 2, you'll get a chance.

There's nothing you can do about filters so just try to avoid any obvious/notorious cutoffs that you can (which at this point is Step 1 and/or 2 scores) and cross your fingers about the rest.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The latest you can submit is traditionally considered to be November 1st. That's the day that the dean's letter (= MSPE) goes out for all schools, and usually once programs receive that, they stop downloading further information from your application.

I think many programs continue downloading information. We have completed interviews, but still download new stuff every week, for example.

 

[thedrjojo]

Many programs have an explicit deadline for things, with Nov 15th being the most common one I can think of. That being said, the speed of things, it means probably asking for that last letter no later than middle of October. My last letter was asked for end of September and received middle October... at which time I already had many interview offers. When i submitted my ERAS on Sept 3rd, I had 1 letter in (from June), another letter about to go in (from July), another letter asked for and a meeting about it set up (from August rotation)...

If you are one of those people inflicted with low Step 1 and high Step 2, I think the best way to avoid some filters may be to email PD's of places you are highly interested (or get faculty at your program to make a call for you) and letting them know, or better yet, doing an away to get your foot in the door... many places will offer any rotator an interview regardless of scores.

Some places you can't get past the filter regardless. Others will take a look at you because they know you are truely intersted if you make the extra effort (Program Coordinators might be better to go to than PD's though). I know the PD at my home school's surgery program has filters for Step 1, but then after going through those apps, removes the filters and reads some apps at random and will offer interviews from that stack... not what I would have wanted to have my interview chances ride on, but it is atleast a shot...

 

[tarlovcyst]

And how about step 2? If one is trying to compensate for low step 1 - does the score absolutely need to be IN before Sept 1st or can it be in before October and have the same effect? (Since they don't start looking until October) Or is it that if you submit by sept 1st and you have a low step 1 without a step 2 you will just be filtered out by the system before they even read your application come october?

I'm an expert on this issue.

If you have a higher step 2 that can compensate for a lower step 1, then it's in the applicant's best interest to GET the STEP 2 SCORES BACK before the applicant applies. so if the applicant is planning to submit the app on september 1 (earliest possible date; better if you apply earlier, since interview spots are first come, first served), then count 6-8 weeks back... and that is when you need to take step 2 the latest by. Step 2 scores, in my experience, come out about 3 Wednesdays after the test taker takes it. But you never know...

The reason why is because some programs screen out for interviews using only step 1. Some use step 2. Some use an average of both scores. Etc. Multiple ways to screen. If you have a higher step 2, you want it there so that you have a higher chance of getting offered an interview. It's as straightforward as that. People with average or high step 1 scores don't need to take step 2 until later, but need their scores BEFORE february, since most programs begin finalizing their lists then.

I hope this helps.

 

[thedrjojo]

People with average or high step 1 scores don't need to take step 2 until later, but need their scores BEFORE february, since most programs begin finalizing their lists then.

I hope this helps.

A good majority of programs don't require a step 2 score before they finalize their lists... 8 of the 9 places I interviewed (and all 4 interviews I turned down) have no stipulation on Step 2 requirements for ranking... just that you need the score before you start, so you should look into this before you apply/rank, because I just took the exam yesterday (purposely did it before the wednesday because that makes it likely to be in a week earlier than if I took it tomorrow) so I can technically get the score in before rank lists are due, but since the one place that does require it is currently 9 of 9 on my list, if it isn't great (and based on how much I studied, I doubt it will be) I don't have to include it in my list

 

[tarlovcyst]

When do programs typically look at letters and when is the typical date most people have fourth year letters in? When is the latest date that one could submit and still have them matter?

I'm asking because I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that you can submit eras september 1st without all your letters and have them trickle in later? Is this a big problem or do most people do it this way?? With the way my schedule will work out, there is no way I could have any fourth year letters by sept 1st. I'm just wondering how big of a disadvantage this will be and when the latest is that I could submit.

Thanks!

Yes, I highly recommend you apply on September 1st or as early as financially possible, regardless of whether your application is complete or not. Ask for your letters early. When I was a med student, I asked the attending at the end of the rotation. I only asked three attendings over 1.5 years. The reason why you ask for letters early is so that they remember you, and that when you come back months later, they will remember that you asked before. Believe me, it works. Then go back to your LOR writers in May and ask them to write it. Give them a lot of time. It takes A LOT of time for LORs to write the letter, get the letter to the designated person at the Dean's office, and finally, getting the designated person to upload it onto ERAS. Some LORs will finish your letter in a week, while others make take 3 months. My experience is that attendings who are higher in position have 30+ unique letters to crank out.

The advantage of you applying early is mainly for the interview invite. Everyone has a step 1 score by the time they apply. I usually screen out by step scores, or one LOR will suffice. By the time we start interviewing, all LORs will be in.