Leadership in our profession.

[Slatches]

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I recently stumbled across a post on a sub reddit. Credit goes to the owner but I couldn’t help but take a shot. I found out that although some physicians make up the board (non paid) of the NRMP, the paid positions and president are non doctors. The president is a nurse? So yeah, I’m like....wtf.

 

[deleted480308]

I recently stumbled across a post on a sub reddit. Credit goes to the owner but I couldn’t help but take a shot. I found out that although some physicians make up the board (non paid) of the NRMP, the paid positions and president are non doctors. The president is a nurse? So yeah, I’m like....wtf.

You want the fees med students pay to support doctor level salaries for all those spots?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You want the fees med students pay to support doctor level salaries for all those spots?

Plus, the NRMP isn't remotely clinical. Its basically a system designed to fill residency spots. Why are physicians needed for all of the board member spots?

 

[Slatches]

You want the fees med students pay to support doctor level salaries for all those spots?

Make your point, because my point was clear.

 

[Slatches]

Plus, the NRMP isn't remotely clinical. Its basically a system designed to fill residency spots. Why are physicians needed for all of the board member spots?

Didn’t say we need docs at all the spots. Yes it’s non clinical but it has to do with doctors going into their profession.
Just as we have relinquished admin roles and then later we b!tch about how the hospital and insurance is ran by people who know nothing about medicine. Perfect!

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Didn’t say we need docs at all the spots. Yes it’s non clinical but it has to do with doctors going into their profession.
Just as we have relinquished admin roles and then later we b!tch about how the hospital and insurance is ran by people who know nothing about medicine. Perfect!

So tell me then, in detail, what harm you see befalling the Match without physician oversight?

 

[deleted480308]

Make your point, because my point was clear.

Doctors are expensive, I see little reason to inflate the cost of the match and remove a doctor from clinical practice unless you can show an objective need

 

[Slatches]

So tell me then, in detail, what harm you see befalling the Match without physician oversight?

It’s not a question of harm. It’s a matter of things belonging to our profession being overseen by non physicians. If you don’t see it, then .... I have no desire to explain.

 

[Slatches]

Doctors are expensive, I see little reason to inflate the cost of the match and remove a doctor from clinical practice unless you can show an objective need

They are expensive. The computer does 90 percent of the work over there.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

It’s not a question of harm. It’s a matter of things belonging to our profession being overseen by non physicians. If you don’t see it, then .... I have no desire to explain.

So you have no idea, good to know.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

They are expensive. The computer does 90 percent of the work over there.

Exactly so why does it matter who's on the board?

 

[GoSpursGo]

I would not consider the NRMP to be part of the "leadership" in our profession.

 

[Slatches]

So you have no idea, good to know.

If you think so buddy.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

If you think so buddy.

Then enlighten me. If its so serious, surely taking 90 seconds out of your day is worth it.

Because here's what I think. I think you're one of those people (SDN has a lot of them) who things that everything even remotely connected to medicine should be under the control of physicians. The problem with that is: first, we've shown that the majority of physicians suck at leadership roles; second, its a better use of our time to actually be seeing patients; third, there are certain areas where it just doesn't make sense for physicians to have major involvement.

Does it make sense for us to be involved in hospital management: yes, of course. Someone at the admin meetings needs to present the physicians' perspective. Should the same be true of insurance companies? That one is trickier. Anyone who practices medicine knows that lots of us are bad about just ordering lots of tests either because the patient wants them or because they're lazy. Physicians suck at controlling costs, we're just not taught to think that way. Should we be in charge of the NRMP? In my opinion no. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't see the benefit. Its a company whose purpose is to house the Match algorithm, nothing more. There might be logic in having a medical student member, kinda like the AMA but as a practicing physician I don't see what I could offer the NRMP other than "when I went through the Match 10 years ago..." and given how much has changed since then that's of very limited value.

 

[idkididk]

"Dr Lamb" with her online doctorate is getting paid $500k (based on CEO from 2018), I'm sure you can find physicians willing to do that.

I think we should at least have someone who has participated in the Match to be the president/CEO, someone who understands what it means to SOAP or not match at all.

Ironic because when a dentist was appointed the head of the National Institute for Nursing research, nurses filed a petition to complain

Nurses file petition after dentist named head of National Institute for Nursing Research - Becker's Hospital Review | Healthcare News & Analysis

A dentist was named interim director of the National Institute of Nursing Research, a choice some nurses say devalues the profession, according to Business Insider.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

 

[Splenda88]

Our profession is going to the dogs...

Nurse with online degree are in position of leadership in medicine... making 500k/year.

 

[deleted480308]

"Dr Lamb" with her online doctorate is getting paid $500k (based on CEO from 2018), I'm sure you can find physicians willing to do that.

I think we should at least have someone who has participated in the Match to be the president/CEO, someone who understands what it means to SOAP or not match at all.

Ironic because when a dentist was appointed the head of the National Institute for Nursing research, nurses filed a petition to complain

Nurses file petition after dentist named head of National Institute for Nursing Research - Becker's Hospital Review | Healthcare News & Analysis

A dentist was named interim director of the National Institute of Nursing Research, a choice some nurses say devalues the profession, according to Business Insider.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

yeah, my only complaint there is $500k. That should be dropped immediately

 

[Splenda88]

yeah, my only complaint there is $500k. That should be dropped immediately

That's what make it more appalling since they could have found a doc who would do that for 300k/yr, not someone who has no idea about the match.

 

[deleted480308]

That's what make it more appalling since they could have found a doc who would do that for 300k/yr, not someone who has no idea about the match.

If I had to guess that tends to be a promotion from within and the type of people willing to go through the lower paid, lower positions to gain the relevant experience for that job don't tend to be doctors.

Either way, don't care, I don't see the need for $500k for that job

 

[Slatches]

"Dr Lamb" with her online doctorate is getting paid $500k (based on CEO from 2018), I'm sure you can find physicians willing to do that.

I think we should at least have someone who has participated in the Match to be the president/CEO, someone who understands what it means to SOAP or not match at all.

Ironic because when a dentist was appointed the head of the National Institute for Nursing research, nurses filed a petition to complain

Nurses file petition after dentist named head of National Institute for Nursing Research - Becker's Hospital Review | Healthcare News & Analysis

A dentist was named interim director of the National Institute of Nursing Research, a choice some nurses say devalues the profession, according to Business Insider.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

Thank you, I have cats on here trying to play “all clever”. I couldn’t be bothered trying to make them see the point.

 

[Slatches]

yeah, my only complaint there is $500k. That should be dropped immediately

That should be dropped? Aren’t you the same cat who replied to my initial post trying to act all knowing? Weak!

 

[deleted480308]

That should be dropped? Aren’t you the same cat who replied to my initial post trying to act all knowing? Weak!

if you want to go back in time and announce the salary in the OP we can do that.....but I went with what I figured to be a reasonable guess that doctors are more expensive to pull from their normal careers than nurses. I think the NRMP is overpaying regardless of who sits in that chair

 

[Slatches]

Our profession is going to the dogs...

Nurse with online degree are in position of leadership in medicine... making 500k/year.

“Oh no, it’s a non clinical position so who cares” says some one here. They Failed to see the point and tried to be all cute. These are the folks who have sold out medicine away from the younger gen.

 

[Slatches]

if you want to go back in time and announce the salary in the OP we can do that.....but I went with what I figured to be a reasonable guess that doctors are more expensive to pull from their normal careers than nurses. I think the NRMP is overpaying regardless of who sits in that chair

Eyes wide shut!

 

[Splenda88]

“Oh no, it’s a non clinical position so who cares” says some one here. They Failed to see the point and tried to be all cute. These are the folks who have sold out medicine away from the younger gen.

Well, that is where our profession is heading... Nurses see us as money hungry whom they should protect patients from while most off us see them as our colleagues. I am saying that based on my experience being on both side of the fence.

 

[Slatches]

Then enlighten me. If its so serious, surely taking 90 seconds out of your day is worth it.

Because here's what I think. I think you're one of those people (SDN has a lot of them) who things that everything even remotely connected to medicine should be under the control of physicians. The problem with that is: first, we've shown that the majority of physicians suck at leadership roles; second, its a better use of our time to actually be seeing patients; third, there are certain areas where it just doesn't make sense for physicians to have major involvement.

Does it make sense for us to be involved in hospital management: yes, of course. Someone at the admin meetings needs to present the physicians' perspective. Should the same be true of insurance companies? That one is trickier. Anyone who practices medicine knows that lots of us are bad about just ordering lots of tests either because the patient wants them or because they're lazy. Physicians suck at controlling costs, we're just not taught to think that way. Should we be in charge of the NRMP? In my opinion no. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't see the benefit. Its a company whose purpose is to house the Match algorithm, nothing more. There might be logic in having a medical student member, kinda like the AMA but as a practicing physician I don't see what I could offer the NRMP other than "when I went through the Match 10 years ago..." and given how much has changed since then that's of very limited value.

I could take seconds out my day but Nah! It’s all good.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I could take seconds out my day but Nah! It’s all good.

I mean, that's cool to be flippant and all, but you and a few others in this thread continue attacking a straw man by arguing about how a physician would take the job for less, or that "we should at least have someone who has participated in the Match to be the president/CEO, someone who understands what it means to SOAP or not match at all." Nobody is arguing that the job doesn't seem like it should make $500k/year, but it's also unclear to me why this is a job which requires an MD, let alone residency training, or why how nurses reacted to something about a dentist has anything to do with anything.

Those seem like eminently reasonable questions, if in fact you are actually interested in having a rational conversation rather than just stirring up outrage.

 

[Splenda88]

I mean, that's cool to be flippant and all, but you and a few others in this thread continue attacking a straw man by arguing about how a physician would take the job for less, or that "we should at least have someone who has participated in the Match to be the president/CEO, someone who understands what it means to SOAP or not match at all." Nobody is arguing that the job doesn't seem like it should make $500k/year, but it's also unclear to me why this is a job which requires an MD, let alone residency training, or why how nurses reacted to something about a dentist has anything to do with anything.

Those seem like eminently reasonable questions, if in fact you are actually interested in having a rational conversation rather than just stirring up outrage.

I can understand OP's frustration. The problem is that we bend over backward for these people when we know that they don't like us.

 

[deleted480308]

I mean, that's cool to be flippant and all, but you and a few others in this thread continue attacking a straw man by arguing about how a physician would take the job for less, or that "we should at least have someone who has participated in the Match to be the president/CEO, someone who understands what it means to SOAP or not match at all." Nobody is arguing that the job doesn't seem like it should make $500k/year, but it's also unclear to me why this is a job which requires an MD, let alone residency training, or why how nurses reacted to something about a dentist has anything to do with anything.

Those seem like eminently reasonable questions, if in fact you are actually interested in having a rational conversation rather than just stirring up outrage.

I am arguing that this job does not require a $500k CEO to be done well

 

[Splenda88]

I am arguing that this job does not require a $500k CEO to be done well

It's a free market system and I don't think it's wise to suggest what someone should make. We don't like it when the public does it to us.

 

[deleted480308]

It's a free market system and I don't think it's wise to suggest what someone should make. We don't like it when the public does it to us.

I’m not proposing a govt rule. I’m saying the stakeholders (applicants/programs/schools) need a certain level of competence there and they are currently overpaying as you can buy a ton of competence for less than $500k

 

[Slatches]

I mean, that's cool to be flippant and all, but you and a few others in this thread continue attacking a straw man by arguing about how a physician would take the job for less, or that "we should at least have someone who has participated in the Match to be the president/CEO, someone who understands what it means to SOAP or not match at all." Nobody is arguing that the job doesn't seem like it should make $500k/year, but it's also unclear to me why this is a job which requires an MD, let alone residency training, or why how nurses reacted to something about a dentist has anything to do with anything.

Those seem like eminently reasonable questions, if in fact you are actually interested in having a rational conversation rather than just stirring up outrage.

I’m interested in more than a conversation. I do not seek to stir outrage. Let’s get that straight. On the other hand you and another guy on here jumped on me when I made the post, asking me to defend myself.....Excuse me! So I decided to go gym (leg day) rather than come up with my reasonings because you were already on the defense.

 

[hamstergang]

I’m interested in more than a conversation. I do not seek to stir outrage. Let’s get that straight. On the other hand you and another guy on here jumped on me when I made the post, asking me to defend myself.....Excuse me! So I decided to go gym (leg day) rather than come up with my reasonings because you were already on the defense.

So you started this thread but without any intention of engaging in conversation on the topic? I feel that frequently it's worth posting things not necessarily for those you are directly engaging with but for all those reading the thread who you'll never hear from.

Or you can just troll.

 

[smq123]

Either move this thread back to a productive discussion (with minimal jabbing at other posters), or it will have to be closed.

Thanks.

 

[Slatches]

So you started this thread but without any intention of engaging in conversation on the topic? I feel that frequently it's worth posting things not necessarily for those you are directly engaging with but for all those reading the thread who you'll never hear from.

Or you can just troll.

Seriously! Enough. If you think I’m trolling then so be it.

 

[rokshana]

I’m interested in more than a conversation. I do not seek to stir outrage. Let’s get that straight. On the other hand you and another guy on here jumped on me when I made the post, asking me to defend myself.....Excuse me! So I decided to go gym (leg day) rather than come up with my reasonings because you were already on the defense.

Really? You went to the gym?
Nice way to be doing responsible social distancing...going to the bar for St paddy’s day too?

 

[rokshana]

Seriously! Enough. If you think I’m trolling then so be it.

No you are showing dunning Kruger at its best...
I know waiting for black monday is painfully slow, but maybe you could find something more productive to do...in your house of course.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I am arguing that this job does not require a $500k CEO to be done well

I think you may have been confused by my double negative. I agree with you.

 

[Raryn]

Then enlighten me. If its so serious, surely taking 90 seconds out of your day is worth it.

Because here's what I think. I think you're one of those people (SDN has a lot of them) who things that everything even remotely connected to medicine should be under the control of physicians. The problem with that is: first, we've shown that the majority of physicians suck at leadership roles; second, its a better use of our time to actually be seeing patients; third, there are certain areas where it just doesn't make sense for physicians to have major involvement.

Does it make sense for us to be involved in hospital management: yes, of course. Someone at the admin meetings needs to present the physicians' perspective. Should the same be true of insurance companies? That one is trickier. Anyone who practices medicine knows that lots of us are bad about just ordering lots of tests either because the patient wants them or because they're lazy. Physicians suck at controlling costs, we're just not taught to think that way. Should we be in charge of the NRMP? In my opinion no. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't see the benefit. Its a company whose purpose is to house the Match algorithm, nothing more. There might be logic in having a medical student member, kinda like the AMA but as a practicing physician I don't see what I could offer the NRMP other than "when I went through the Match 10 years ago..." and given how much has changed since then that's of very limited value.

Honestly, I don't think it should be a doctor OR a nurse.

The people in charge of the NRMP should be statisticians or economists. Maybe some kind of computer scientist.

Medical training has **** all to do with ensuring an appropriately run matching algorithm.

 

[Slatches]

Really? You went to the gym?
Nice way to be doing responsible social distancing...going to the bar for St paddy’s day too?

I appreciate your judgement Ma but I called ahead and my gym was open and empty and I lifted weights. What did you do? Go to the crowded grocery store? Ok, I’ll touch base with you next time. GTFOOH!!!

 

[Slatches]

No you are showing dunning Kruger at its best...
I know waiting for black monday is painfully slow, but maybe you could find something more productive to do...in your house of course.

Oh aren’t you the same cat who asked if I’ll go to the bar for St Paddy? I will go....you not worth my time! Now, go sit yourself down.

 

[rokshana]

I appreciate your judgement Ma but I called ahead and my gym was open and empty and I lifted weights. What did you do? Go to the crowded grocery store? Ok, I’ll touch base with you next time. GTFOOH!!!

No...I go to the hospital and I go home.
Rinse and repeat...some of us are actually doctors.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Either move this thread back to a productive discussion (with minimal jabbing at other posters), or it will have to be closed.

Thanks.

Okey doke, I don't think the above has been heeded. Thread closed