Learning from this Cycle

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Abraxas65

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So the closer we get to the end of the year the more it looks like I will not be getting in this application cycle. I am hoping that some of the more seasoned members here can give me some advice and maybe clarify a few points for me.

I am pretty certain that my GPA for cum and sci is what has kept me from getting any interviews this year (3.00sGPA and 3.05cumGPA). I plan on working on this by retaking two courses and taking a new upper division chemistry course this next semester. Unfortunately I believe my MCAT score is expiring this year (I took it 5/19/12) and it was a very good score for me 33O so I believe I will have to retake this. Also while I have considerable research experience and moderate volunteering most of this is 2+ years old. I have spent the last two years getting my life back in order, started my own company and working 50-60 hours per week.

Given this my concerns/questions are:

  • Should I cut back on work in order to squeeze in some volunteering? Personally I would prefer to work and try and save some money for retaking the MCAT and reapplying. If I dont work as much as possible it will affect how many schools I will be able to apply to next year. Also I kind of feel any volunteering I did do would be seen as just trying to check the box kind of activity, given this should I concentrate on work or get out there and start volunteering?
  • How exactly does the MCAT cut off work!? I realize that it changes school to school which makes it hard to give a firm answer but it seems that some schools only care about what year it was taken in, while others care about the month and a few even care what exact day it was? Can anyone give me a quick 2-3 sentence explanation? This seems to be a really simple issue but for some reason I'm just not understanding.
  • When is the best time to contact schools about what I need to work on in my application. I'm sure it is my GPA but better to check and make sure. I will check with each individual school on whether they allow phone calls/emails but once I know if it is ok to contact them when should I? Should I do it now? Wait til Jan, March or even April? I already hate having to call the schools, I feel like I am just bother them and I would just like to make sure my call is at the least inconvenient time possible.
  • How do GPA cut off works? I know this seems like a stupid question, but I want to know how schools implement their GPA cut offs when you are retaking courses. With retakes this next semester, summer and next fall I think I could raise my GPA high enough to apply to a couple schools who have cut offs around 3.2 or so. Would these people look at my application if my GPA was say 3.18 with retakes currently in process? Or does your GPA have to be >3.2 at the time the application gets sent off.
  • Finally what are my actual chances of getting an interview at this point? I have been completed for over 2 months for most of the schools (18 in total) and only gotten two rejections and two holds. How common is it for someone to get a silent rejection? Honestly right now the completely lack of communication is bothering me a lot more than the rejections and holds I have gotten so far.

As I'm sure you can tell from my post I am a little frazzled and feeling pretty down right now. Especially from the complete lack of communication from most schools. Any help, answers or advice is appreciated. Especially from people who have had to reapply twice or even more times. Thanks and sorry for making yet another "Why wont they Accept me" post.
 
Abraxas65 said:
So the closer we get to the end of the year the more it looks like I will not be getting in this application cycle. I am hoping that some of the more seasoned members here can give me some advice and maybe clarify a few points for me.

I am pretty certain that my GPA for cum and sci is what has kept me from getting any interviews this year (3.00sGPA and 3.05cumGPA). I plan on working on this by retaking two courses and taking a new upper division chemistry course this next semester. Unfortunately I believe my MCAT score is expiring this year (I took it 5/19/12) and it was a very good score for me 33O so I believe I will have to retake this. Also while I have considerable research experience and moderate volunteering most of this is 2+ years old. I have spent the last two years getting my life back in order, started my own company and working 50-60 hours per week.

Given this my concerns/questions are:

  • Should I cut back on work in order to squeeze in some volunteering? Personally I would prefer to work and try and save some money for retaking the MCAT and reapplying. If I dont work as much as possible it will affect how many schools I will be able to apply to next year. Also I kind of feel any volunteering I did do would be seen as just trying to check the box kind of activity, given this should I concentrate on work or get out there and start volunteering?
  • How exactly does the MCAT cut off work!? I realize that it changes school to school which makes it hard to give a firm answer but it seems that some schools only care about what year it was taken in, while others care about the month and a few even care what exact day it was? Can anyone give me a quick 2-3 sentence explanation? This seems to be a really simple issue but for some reason I'm just not understanding.
  • When is the best time to contact schools about what I need to work on in my application. I'm sure it is my GPA but better to check and make sure. I will check with each individual school on whether they allow phone calls/emails but once I know if it is ok to contact them when should I? Should I do it now? Wait til Jan, March or even April? I already hate having to call the schools, I feel like I am just bother them and I would just like to make sure my call is at the least inconvenient time possible.
  • How do GPA cut off works? I know this seems like a stupid question, but I want to know how schools implement their GPA cut offs when you are retaking courses. With retakes this next semester, summer and next fall I think I could raise my GPA high enough to apply to a couple schools who have cut offs around 3.2 or so. Would these people look at my application if my GPA was say 3.18 with retakes currently in process? Or does your GPA have to be >3.2 at the time the application gets sent off.
  • Finally what are my actual chances of getting an interview at this point? I have been completed for over 2 months for most of the schools (18 in total) and only gotten two rejections and two holds. How common is it for someone to get a silent rejection? Honestly right now the completely lack of communication is bothering me a lot more than the rejections and holds I have gotten so far.

As I'm sure you can tell from my post I am a little frazzled and feeling pretty down right now. Especially from the complete lack of communication from most schools. Any help, answers or advice is appreciated. Especially from people who have had to reapply twice or even more times. Thanks and sorry for making yet another "Why wont they Accept me" post.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear your anxiety OP. May I ask where you applied to?
 
I applied to over 30 schools in total MD/DO. Not getting any love from the MD schools which was somewhat expected. This is the list of the DO schools

· A.T. Still University, School of Osteopathic Medicine in Arizona – Mesa, AZ

· Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University – Glendale, AZ

· Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University – Chicago, IL

· Des Moines University College of Osteopathic Medicine – Des Moines, IA

· Edward Via College of Osteopathic Medicine - Spartanburg, SC

· Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine – Erie, PA

· Lincoln Memorial University - DeBusk College of Osteopathic Medicine – Harrogate, TN

· Nova Southeastern University College of Osteopathic Medicine – Davie, FL

· NYIT College of Osteopathic Medicine – Old Westbury, NY

· Ohio University Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine – Athens, OH

· Pacific Northwest University of Health Sciences, College of Osteopathic Medicine – Yakima, WA

· Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine – Philadelphia, PA

· Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine, College of Osteopathic Medicine – Parker, CO

· Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine – Vallejo, CA

· Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine – Reno/Las Vegas, NV

· West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine – Lewisburg, WV

· Western University of Health Sciences/College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific – Lebanon, OR

· Western University of Health Sciences/College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific – Pomona, CA
 
OP I think you still have a fighting chance. I believe many schools have out your app on a hold because if the lower GPA, but you're still in the running and will be considered later in the cycle. Don't give up hope yet. Call the schools and politely ask for an update on your application.

Wishing you the very best of luck!
 
Thanks. It helps to here that I'm probably not sitting on 15 or so silent rejections. Honestly at times I wish they would just decide even if they do decide to reject me. It would be better to know then sitting here waiting month after month.
 
Something is actually very wrong here. Many of those schools I'm almost 100% sure should have given you an interview: LECOM-E & AZCOM specifically. The fact that not a single school out of that list invited you to interview implies that there's something on your app beyond grades that is preventing you from getting interviews.

Do you have a MD or DO letter of recommendation and shadowing? If not then you're not even complete for any of these schools.


Edit: Being complete 2 months at most schools at least in GORO's mind implies that you've been examined and left to be re-examined for later.
 
Last edited:
I have both MD and DO LORs several in fact. Good ones too, from people I have worked with for 5-10 years and have been very supportive of me going to medical school. I have some significant research (poster presentations, state level awards, poster on the hill) but no publications. I have low to moderate volunteering all from a couple of years ago most of it being tutoring. I have 10+ years experience working in healthcare all of it directly with patients and most of it in a low income clinic. Shadowing is over 400 hours over the last two years. My professor LOR should be good, not amazing but I have taken classes and done research with them for several years and I would feel that they would either refuse to write me a LOR or at least speak with me before throwing me under the bus. No legal or academic problems outside of failing an entire semester when I was studying abroad. These classes were retake for the most part (one class wasn't offered at my home university) with acceptable grades.

I kind of knew going in my GPA would be a stumbling block but hoped my MCAT 33 along with 2 years of 400-600 levels courses would help balance the scales. I know I could have gotten more volunteering in but I will be honest I was kind of counting on my history of working in a low income clinic and my research would show that I have kept myself busy and didn't just sit around not doing anything instead of volunteering. My application got done around July with most secondaries getting done between late july to mid late september (most done earlier rather then later).

I dont know whats going on honestly I kind of expected to be done at this point in the cycle; either waiting on interviews or worse case scenario been rejected. I have never heard of anyone waiting this long and not hearing anything from so many schools.
 
I recommend calling a few schools. I'm honestly unsure why you're not getting anything because a 3.0/33 should be getting some love from the more mcat heavy schools.
 
While I by no means claim any form of expertise on admissions, something would seem to be off. The only thing that seems amiss based on what you have told us is the relatively soft gpa. Given your MCAT and other activities I would have thought at least a couple of those schools would have given you an II though. Have you been outright rejected by any or have you only gotten silence?
 
Thanks for the responses. I will start calling some of the schools this next week to get an update on my application. Maybe they see a warning sign somewhere that I dont know about.
 
@AM508 I have gotten 3 rejections (one just showed up today), 2 holds (one just showed up today) and pretty much nothing from everyone else expect secondaries. But after submitting secondaries no other contact besides the "you are complete" email.
 
If I were you, if you are going to call some schools, I would start with a couple where you were straight out rejected as they would seem more likely to give you some feedback.
 
Which VCOMs did you apply to? Auburn's inaugural class starts next year so that might help you out. If you have the cash, apply to ACOM and KYCOM.

I'm no expert but I think it's getting pretty late in the cycle. However, I think you should at least get an interview at KYCOM or ACOM.
 
Abraxas65 said:
So the closer we get to the end of the year the more it looks like I will not be getting in this application cycle. I am hoping that some of the more seasoned members here can give me some advice and maybe clarify a few points for me.

I am pretty certain that my GPA for cum and sci is what has kept me from getting any interviews this year (3.00sGPA and 3.05cumGPA). I plan on working on this by retaking two courses and taking a new upper division chemistry course this next semester. Unfortunately I believe my MCAT score is expiring this year (I took it 5/19/12) and it was a very good score for me 33O so I believe I will have to retake this. Also while I have considerable research experience and moderate volunteering most of this is 2+ years old. I have spent the last two years getting my life back in order, started my own company and working 50-60 hours per week.

Given this my concerns/questions are:

  • Should I cut back on work in order to squeeze in some volunteering? Personally I would prefer to work and try and save some money for retaking the MCAT and reapplying. If I dont work as much as possible it will affect how many schools I will be able to apply to next year. Also I kind of feel any volunteering I did do would be seen as just trying to check the box kind of activity, given this should I concentrate on work or get out there and start volunteering?
  • How exactly does the MCAT cut off work!? I realize that it changes school to school which makes it hard to give a firm answer but it seems that some schools only care about what year it was taken in, while others care about the month and a few even care what exact day it was? Can anyone give me a quick 2-3 sentence explanation? This seems to be a really simple issue but for some reason I'm just not understanding.
  • When is the best time to contact schools about what I need to work on in my application. I'm sure it is my GPA but better to check and make sure. I will check with each individual school on whether they allow phone calls/emails but once I know if it is ok to contact them when should I? Should I do it now? Wait til Jan, March or even April? I already hate having to call the schools, I feel like I am just bother them and I would just like to make sure my call is at the least inconvenient time possible.
  • How do GPA cut off works? I know this seems like a stupid question, but I want to know how schools implement their GPA cut offs when you are retaking courses. With retakes this next semester, summer and next fall I think I could raise my GPA high enough to apply to a couple schools who have cut offs around 3.2 or so. Would these people look at my application if my GPA was say 3.18 with retakes currently in process? Or does your GPA have to be >3.2 at the time the application gets sent off.
  • Finally what are my actual chances of getting an interview at this point? I have been completed for over 2 months for most of the schools (18 in total) and only gotten two rejections and two holds. How common is it for someone to get a silent rejection? Honestly right now the completely lack of communication is bothering me a lot more than the rejections and holds I have gotten so far.

As I'm sure you can tell from my post I am a little frazzled and feeling pretty down right now. Especially from the complete lack of communication from most schools. Any help, answers or advice is appreciated. Especially from people who have had to reapply twice or even more times. Thanks and sorry for making yet another "Why wont they Accept me" post.
Click to expand...
which schools have rejected or put you on hold?
 
wxman393 said:
Which VCOMs did you apply to? Auburn's inaugural class starts next year so that might help you out. If you have the cash, apply to ACOM and KYCOM.

I'm no expert but I think it's getting pretty late in the cycle. However, I think you should at least get an interview at KYCOM or ACOM.
Click to expand...


I applied to the VCOM in South Carolina. I might need to add on Auburn, KYCOM and ACOM. But don't KYCOM and ACOM have a pretty strong regional bias? Being from California there were a number of schools I didn't look to closely at because its my understanding that a lot of the midwestern/east coast schools have really strong regional biases.


user3 said:
which schools have rejected or put you on hold?
Click to expand...

I'm at work so I am going from memory but I have gotten rejected from RVU, Western in Oregon, and one of the arizona schools. I have holds from the other arizona school and I can't remember where the last hold is at.
 
Abraxas65 said:
I applied to the VCOM in South Carolina. I might need to add on Auburn, KYCOM and ACOM. But don't KYCOM and ACOM have a pretty strong regional bias? Being from California there were a number of schools I didn't look to closely at because its my understanding that a lot of the midwestern/east coast schools have really strong regional biases.
Click to expand...

I doubt this for a good chunk of schools in the midwest. I had two interviews last cycle in the midwest. I am pretty much OOS for the entire mainland.
 
IslandStyle808 said:
I doubt this for a good chunk of schools in the midwest. I had two interviews last cycle in the midwest. I am pretty much OOS for the entire mainland.
Click to expand...


My understanding of which schools have strong regional biases could very well be inaccurate.
 
Abraxas65 said:
My understanding of which schools have strong regional biases could very well be inaccurate.
Click to expand...

It is really a school dependent thing. UNE-COM and MSU have a strong regional bias (correct on this). However, schools like KCUMB and ATSU-KCOM don't.
 
I have lower grades and a lower MCAT and I attended my first interview this week. I have no idea why you are not getting at least one interview, considering the fact that you have definitely applied broadly enough and early enough with competitive numbers.

There is definitely something else about your application that is turning up as a red flag. Could your essays be weak? Perhaps you are missing a core requirement?
 
My essays could be a problem. I am an average to slightly above average writer for the most part but I will admit that for a lot of the essay's it never really clicked. I dont think any are horrible but for the most part they weren't amazing.

Pretty sure I have all the core requirements. I did my degree in biology and have a full year of socio/psych and english courses.
 
Abraxas65 said:
My essays could be a problem. I am an average to slightly above average writer for the most part but I will admit that for a lot of the essay's it never really clicked. I dont think any are horrible but for the most part they weren't amazing.

Pretty sure I have all the core requirements. I did my degree in biology and have a full year of socio/psych and english courses.
Click to expand...

Did you have a non-friend or non-family member read some of your essays? I found it to be quite helpful to have an objective 3rd party take a look at some of them before I sent them in.
 
I did not have anyone else read my essays (besides my girlfriend). Mainly due to the sheer number of them.
 
make some phone calls to schools on monday and report back.
 
user3 said:
make some phone calls to schools on monday and report back.
Click to expand...


I will. And to everyone here, thanks. Its nice to be able to just talk about this with other people who have an understanding of how insane medical school applications. Family while supportive dont really understand.
 
Why hasn't anybody addressed the fact that the highest score on any single mcat section is a 15. OP states they received a 19 verbal.
 
I think you are mistaken or there is a typo somewhere in one of my posts. I scored a 12/10/11 for a combined score of 33 with an O in the essay section.

EDIT: I see what you mean on my first post. That is the date I took it, not my score.
 
Abraxas65 said:
I think you are mistaken or there is a typo somewhere in one of my posts. I scored a 12/10/11 for a combined score of 33 with an O in the essay section.

EDIT: I see what you mean on my first post. That is the date I took it, not my score.
Click to expand...


Oh I see! Thanks for addressing the confusion.
 
YourMD said:
Oh I see! Thanks for addressing the confusion.
Click to expand...


No problem. Looking back I wish I had taken it one month later, it appears that I am just on the wrong side of "dont accept MCATs older than" date.
 
Abraxas65 said:
No problem. Looking back I wish I had taken it one month later, it appears that I am just on the wrong side of "dont accept MCATs older than" date.
Click to expand...

Ouch! I feel your pain. If you really don't want to take the new mcat you can try and apply to postbacc with a linkage agreement. They will likely accept your current score and will not make you retake for matriculation into the medical college.
 
I have thought about doing an official postbacc but the cost is making me hesitant. Especially when I haven't taken full advantage of DO grade replacement policy. If this year doesn't happen I am going to look into any schools that might accept my old score and if necessary retake the exam. I know I can do as well if not better than last time in the original 3 sections but the new sociology section is a rather large unknown.
 
OP, any reason you didn't apply to Touro-NY? If I were you I would add the above recommended as well as Touro-NY and PCOM-Ga ASAP.
 
doapplicant2015 said:
OP, any reason you didn't apply to Touro-NY? If I were you I would add the above recommended as well as Touro-NY and PCOM-Ga ASAP.
Click to expand...


Honestly cost. I have put out around $4000 (rough guesstimate) this application cycle and I haven't gone to a single interview yet. That being said I have saved up a bit more money so I am going to make some calls on Monday to try and see if there are any really serious red flags that I dont know about and then start adding a couple more schools people have mention in this thread.
 
Abraxas65 said:
Honestly cost. I have put out around $4000 (rough guesstimate) this application cycle and I haven't gone to a single interview yet. That being said I have saved up a bit more money so I am going to make some calls on Monday to try and see if there are any really serious red flags that I dont know about and then start adding a couple more schools people have mention in this thread.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, thats understandable. If it makes you feel better, I received 3 straight out rejections a week after applying and was put on hold at AZCOM too. There is plenty of time left and you never know what will happen in the next couple of months, best of luck!
 
I got over 10 rejections before I got 3 ii. The ii take longer to come from my experience, and I am going to be attending UNECOM, and am from AZ. So don't put too much into the whole regional bias stuff. Apply where you want, reading the threads it could potentially be your essays. If you add any more schools, even post on SDN and find someone to proofread. I didn't have people proofread my secondaries, but they did proofread by primary. What do you mean you had no strong connections to the essays? THIS may be your problem. A lot of the secondaries ask you why DO, why physician? If you don't have strong connections/answers to these particular essays that could reallly hurt you. And if you can't answer these questions well and with some passion, why are you applying to osteopathic physician schools?
 
crossfit4lyfe said:
I got over 10 rejections before I got 3 ii. The ii take longer to come from my experience, and I am going to be attending UNECOM, and am from AZ. So don't put too much into the whole regional bias stuff. Apply where you want, reading the threads it could potentially be your essays. If you add any more schools, even post on SDN and find someone to proofread. I didn't have people proofread my secondaries, but they did proofread by primary. What do you mean you had no strong connections to the essays? THIS may be your problem. A lot of the secondaries ask you why DO, why physician? If you don't have strong connections/answers to these particular essays that could reallly hurt you. And if you can't answer these questions well and with some passion, why are you applying to osteopathic physician schools?
Click to expand...

Basically I mean that I never got in to a really good flow with most of the questions. Each essay too me several iterations, which for me usually means I can't come up with what I think is a really good idea. Of all the essays I think why do you want to me a physician ones were my best and the "why DO?" were weaker. I will be honestly I have worked in health care for a long time and I know that I want to be a physician and I feel I can articulate that pretty well. But when they ask "Why DO?" outside of the DOs philosophy emphasis on treating the whole whole patient (ie recognizing socio and economic influences to ones health) I dont have an amazing story to tell on why I want to be a DO. I applied both MD and DO and would be more than happy to go to either kind of program. If I were lucky enough to get multiple acceptances the main criteria I would use when it came to choosing which to go to would be cost plain and simple.
 
So I have called multiple schools RVU, ATSU-arizona, PNWU (my 3 rejections) and AZCOM (one of my waitlists) and wasn't really able to talk to anyone. The schools I was rejected from went straight to voicemail one of which got back to me and basically said email the questions and we will get back to you in a couple weeks the other I haven't heard from. AZCOM actually had someone I could talk to but because I am still on the waitlist they didn't have any committee notes the could look so there really wasn't anything they could tell me.

Going to send emails as well to schools and continue to wait and see. If I dont get a call back by tomorrow I will call again.
 
I think the fact that your gpa is inflated by grad courses and your junior year being the bad one makes things more complicated.
 
I'm with you op. I was complete around 2.5 months ago with a 3.4/32. I received only one interview and they grilled me hard on my GPA.

This cycle is getting rough.
 
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