We all want something to look forward to after this training grind is over. Is anybody else thinking of leasing an expensive car once they start pulling in an attending's salary? You can lease a Porsche 911 for around $1500 a month. Even with student loans, if you make some choices in other areas (work a few more hours, cheaper vacations), this seems like a realistic option on a >200k salary. Perhaps this is stupid from a financial perspective, but #yolo?
Leasing a sports car as a new attending?
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Care to give your #1 reason why it is?
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At $1200/month, you are blowing $14.4k/year and have $0 equity to show for it. If you really want to splurge on a nice car, work hard and make smart financial decisions for a few years and you will be able to buy one.
Also, I hope you don't think a $200k salary means $200k is getting deposited in your bank every year. Spending >10% of your annual take-home pay on a car is incredibly irresponsible.
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is a porsche 911 that cheap?
finance 2.5k a month. its better to finance.
i just googled it. man its 89k base.
i dont tink its even worth a discussion
if u were talking about a real supercar like ferrari/lambo/astonmartin/bentley yea.
but its just a normal higherend car
finance 2.5k a month. its better to finance.
i just googled it. man its 89k base.
i dont tink its even worth a discussion
if u were talking about a real supercar like ferrari/lambo/astonmartin/bentley yea.
but its just a normal higherend car
Wow, I had no idea you're taxed 80 k on a 200 k salary. I thought you'd be bringing home 140 k at a minimum.
$14,400 a year, unless I'm missing something extra? I wasn't thinking of spending anything near 36 k.
Hmm okay. Sounds like I should be patient and either buy or finance a few years into practice, unless you have a different suggestion.
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+1 Reading the White Coat Investor will probably do more good for your financial future than anything else.
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I plan on renting something equally extravagant when i get that attending paycheck... and yes I mean renting as in for a day or two. Will I really even have the time to fully enjoy a porsche as an attending? probably not. Is it frivolous? Absolutely, but less so than having a recurring 1500/mos cost of leasing
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Leasing a car is always a bad idea financially. It seems to cater to people who have to switch cars every three months. You might as well invest in buying the thing and keep it once you pay it off. Or better yet, wait and save up enough until you can buy it with cash and save on interest.
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No idea why I calculated it at $3k/month. Even at $14,400/year, it's just too much to be paying one-way for a car.
Look, no one can tell you what to do with your money and no one can fault you for wanting to reward yourself for years of hard work. That said, resisting the urge to make a decision like this will pay huge dividends down the line and will prevent you from being in debt for the rest of your career. A typical saying is that you can buy anything you want as a physician, but can't buy everything you want. If you want to drive around a Ferrari or Lambo, chances are you will have to cut back on your house/vacations. It's your choice though.
Reading The White Coat Investor (website+book) is a great investment into your future, especially if you are still in training.
A physician I shadowed in high school told me that the best thing he did was live like a resident for 3 years after he became an attending. He paid off his debt, worked as much as he could, and shoved every last dime into his bank account/investments. By the time he was in his early 30s, he was living a very comfortable life, working how ever much/little he wanted, and had plenty of time/money for his hobbies. This obviously takes a great amount of discipline but even a few sacrifices early on will go a long way.
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If you're patient, have some flexibility with respect to make/model and color, go for a certified pre-owned vehicle. The 63K vehicle I bought was a year old with only 2K miles. Bought it for around 50K. Payments were about 850/month which I am done with next month.
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I think med school should replace histology with a finance class.
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Y
You probably paid too much for that car... a 2-year old car with 20k mile should have at least a 30% depreciation value. It's a 45k car--worst case scenario.
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I already bought a Porsche and it came in the form of my student loans.
But seriously, if you think blowing $1,400 a month is a lot on a car, wait till you see what kind of houses your doctor friends will be buying right out of training. My friends here in Texas spend more than that on property tax each month on their new >half a million dollar house. That's not even getting to the interest on their student loans or mortgage.
If you buy a half a million dollar house in Texas out of training and have 250,000 in student loans at 5% interest then you will be spending about $3,700 a month on interest and property taxes alone on these two debts. None of that will be going to principle....
There are lots of chances as an attending to go into debt, the amount of times your willing to sign loan documents is the limit!
But seriously, if you think blowing $1,400 a month is a lot on a car, wait till you see what kind of houses your doctor friends will be buying right out of training. My friends here in Texas spend more than that on property tax each month on their new >half a million dollar house. That's not even getting to the interest on their student loans or mortgage.
If you buy a half a million dollar house in Texas out of training and have 250,000 in student loans at 5% interest then you will be spending about $3,700 a month on interest and property taxes alone on these two debts. None of that will be going to principle....
There are lots of chances as an attending to go into debt, the amount of times your willing to sign loan documents is the limit!
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Nah bro, that's ortho spine
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Also.. but a pre-owned Lotus Elise at like 25-30k. Still looks and feels (and kinda is) an exotic car. Turns heads. Revs to >9000 and will give you enough fun for those first 3-5 years out of residency while being prudent with the rest of your money. Obviously others in this thread will say you can be much more prudent financially but this will be much better imo than leasing (and not even owning) a ~100k+ car.
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If only my student loans were a car...I'd have a McLaren.
0 to 60 mph in under 3 seconds? Yes, please!
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You really can't compare a car payment with mortgage/loan payments.
They should. Then maybe you would learn that 14 k on a car per year isn't going to break the bank if you're willing to sacrifice in other areas (house, vacations, more hours, ect.) If you want to find the internet forum with the largest ratio of pretentious finger waggers/user, SDN must be pretty high on that list.
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Lol..
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Yes, you are right, if you are willing to sacrifice your house, your vacations, and work more hours all to have your car, then go for it.
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Both are recurring expenses that at some point become not a need, but an extravagant purchase. Both payment categories comprise a budget that hopefully everyone has made.
If OP budgets appropriately, they can spend your money however they want. Some money decisions will be better investment decisions than others.
If OP has it in his budget for the car, go wild. If OP has a large amount of debt with little room for savings then its probably not the best decision.
There are lots of ways to compare car payments with mortgage/loan payments including which ones might be depreciating assets, which ones are tax deductible, which debts can be discharged in bankruptcy, what other type of insurance is needed when servicing the debt, and which ones tend to have better interest rates to name a few.
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as the others have said, you could do that it's probably not a good choice. everyone has different priorities, but you'd be paying lots of money and getting no equity for it; you're in debt, over age 30, and just starting to produce a good income - my advice would be to increase your lifestyle modestly, save as much as possible, and start a nest egg for retirement, 20% down payment on a house, and paying off your student loans. sorry that's very unexciting and unglamorous advice. I think we need to dig out of the hole we're in from med school before we start "living it up."
that's what i did, anyway... kept driving my 10+ year old corolla until I had been an attending for 5 years.
that's what i did, anyway... kept driving my 10+ year old corolla until I had been an attending for 5 years.
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I meant you can't compare the size of a car payment vs mortgage/loan payment. It seemed like you were suggesting that $1400/month on a car is not a lot considering you know people who pay $3700 for mortgage/loans. My point is you can't compare these dollar amounts, obviously a mortgage is going to cost more than a car payment. But yes, in theory the structure of the payments is very similar. I would imagine most would prioritize house and loan payments over car payments but to each their own.
Surely you weren't expecting me to change my opinion based on another person's line of reasoning. I'm a human being - it would be totally against my nature to do something like that.
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It's incredibly shortsighted. Just get yourself something like a used 2014 BMW Z4 sDrive35is- they run about 35k ($631/mo), can go 0-60 in 4.4 seconds, are fun enough to drive, and are a decent enough ride until you're more settled in your career. Insurance will probably only run $250-300 for full coverage, or way less if you're old and have a decent driving record like myself. The lease on a 911 may be $1,500, but the insurance will likely run you another $500-650+ depending on your driving history for total coverage of an expensive sports car that you've got on a lease.
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I was actually thinking how refreshing it was to see a seemingly naive person come onto this forum and willingly take advice from more experienced people. Then you ruined it.
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Offering reasonable advice is "pretentious finger wagging" lol. This OP...
No it was ruined by people joking about how I need to take a finance class for simply asking for clarification. I'm still receptive for posts like the one @Mad Jack just offered, which are helpful.
The pretentious finger wagging was referring to w19's 1st post. That was anything but "offering reasonable advice."
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Those are good points...I guess its a balancing act that each of us has to figure out. I was an older non-trad when I started med school so given my age I was destined to be behind with respect to carrying med school debt and lack of meaningful net egg. I did live modest for a year or two but then it was time to buy a car and home (or keep renting) and I didn't want to wait until 50 to start living. I have no regrets with the car, got a great deal and I really enjoy driving it (believe it or not it was the 1st car I've ever owned with power windows!)...Went a bit overboard with the house, its a very slippery slope! (Though I did get by with only putting down 5% using a physicians loan and have a good interest rate at 3.6%). The house is really nice but I am not getting too attached to it as I wouldn't be surprised if we need to down grade at some point. The main issue being that I honestly have no idea what my income will be 5-10 years from now which is concerning. Earlier today I skimmed an article in my one of specialty's journal about medicare's "New payment models", I don't quite understand it but scares the cr*p out of me from an income perspective (which is why I usually avoid these types of articles!)
But in general, on SDN, there does seem to be a large number of 23 year old nerds pushing their glasses up the bridge of their nose while muttering "tsk tsk" into the monitors of the desktop that they built for themselves.
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Where in your training are you? W19's comment is actually pretty valid - physicians have been known to have some of the worst financial skills of high-earnings professionals. We get virtually no training and have to find time on our own to learn how to manage our finances. This will probably change in the next few years as people become aware of this gap in our education. In the meantime, there are valuable people both on this forum and the WCI site that volunteer their time to help whoever is willing to listen.
Southern Surgeon: "Very stupid"
Me: "Care to give your #1 reason why it is?"
W-19 response: "I think med school should replace histology with a finance class."
I agree that a finance class would be helpful, but could you consider the context in which that comment was offered? Perhaps in the context of poking fun at someone's open-minded inquiry on Academic Surgeon's initial post, it was not taken (or meant to be taken) as helpful feedback?
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This, I think his post was a general statement, not just directed at you personally. Many physicians start seeing 5 digits on their monthly paycheck and think it is limitless. It all goes pretty quick; when we make greater than 99% of people, it's pretty ridiculous how many physicians are stressed about money and trying to work extra shifts to pay their bills.
Helpful feedback regarding lackluster finance skills among this profession would be more in line with @SouthernSurgeon 's advice to read the Whitecoat Investor Blog.
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You should just go lease an even more expensive car, that will show @W19 for his slightly less tactful advice.
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I don't think I want the kind of power a 911 offers after I've finished up my 6th 14 hour night shift in a row. It's basically a high velocity casket when I'm that tired.
Let's not be putting any ideas in my head. This is the sort of feedback that I might be receptive to.
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I am a nontrad student who was a RN (still is since my spouse keeps my license active) and I will be a MS4 in 2 wks. One thing I learned during my years working as a RN is that managing your money wisely can go a long way....
It seems like med students who are supposed to be the brightest have no idea how make their money work for them...
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In the words of Jeremy Clarkson "The only reason you'd buy a boxster is because you can't afford a 911"
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Then you'll definitely want to stay away from the Dodge Demon
Or you really like the twisties and want to be able to shift gears without go over the speed limit. Boxster and Cayman are fun cars in their own way.
