Leaving lab after two years...worried about PI

[sghos]

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I had put up a similar thread but have a bit of a different question now. I will be a junior in the fall and had been working in the same lab for 4 semesters now. This last semester I received a B(while getting As the previous semesters), as did two other undergrads. Yesterday we were told that our lab simply has higher standards than other labs, where As are simply handed out (not getting an A is pretty uncommon at our institution for undergrad research) and if we still felt strongly about it we were free to leave. Considering the fact that Im afraid of more Bs and I can't envision an additional two years with this PI (he has tended to be condescending and mean this semester) I have tentatively decided not to pursue research in his lab anymore and of course not ask for a LOR when I apply two years from now. I'm wondering though how thats gonna look? I have heard everything from no one will notice to this will sink you.

I plan on getting LORs from two profs i have set up TA opportunities with and another 1 or two from my ECs.

Well tbh i guess this isnt that different but hey whatever.

 

[911 Turbo]

I had put up a similar thread but have a bit of a different question now. I will be a junior in the fall and had been working in the same lab for 4 semesters now. This last semester I received a B(while getting As the previous semesters), as did two other undergrads. Yesterday we were told that our lab simply has higher standards than other labs, where As are simply handed out (not getting an A is pretty uncommon at our institution for undergrad research) and if we still felt strongly about it we were free to leave. Considering the fact that Im afraid of more Bs and I can't envision an additional two years with this PI (he has tended to be condescending and mean this semester) I have tentatively decided not to pursue research in his lab anymore and of course not ask for a LOR when I apply two years from now. I'm wondering though how thats gonna look? I have heard everything from no one will notice to this will sink you.

I plan on getting LORs from two profs i have set up TA opportunities with and another 1 or two from my ECs.

Well tbh i guess this isnt that different but hey whatever.

Yes, get the hell out of there and just switch labs.

 

[tiedyeddog]

I think it is school dependent. Schools that value undergraduate research might ask you where the LOR is. Ones that don't wont. Don't get a LOR from the guy, sounds like a mean dude.

 

[sghos]

I imagine I might be helped a bit by finding another research position down the line?

 

[semicharmed]

It's always nice to have continuity in your experiences. Adcoms look over your history in college and like to see a nice, flowing story that correlates with your interests and skills. Large gaps or unexplained discontinuities may send up a red flag. Harvard, for example, requires you to have a LOR from every research PI you've worked for.

I agree with some of the above comments-ultimately, your happiness should dictate your decisions, and the work you produce should you stay in lab will be affected in quality if you do not enjoy it. I would think about a better way to spin the experience than "the PI and I didn't get along." I would also recommend finding a replacement activity (research, service, etc) that you really like, then you can tell your interviewer that you thought it was a nice transition from finishing work in lab to starting on a new chapter of interest to explore a new passion (or something like this).

Important: don't spin this bad experience in a bad light. Instead, focus on the goodness that came out of it (new opportunities, concrete goals met, GREAT experience in lab). An adcom once told me that negative stories leave negative impressions. If you say you hated your 2 years in lab, you effectively erase 2 years of hard work from your application. If, on the other hand, you mention that you felt it was a natural point of transition to explore other interests, this is more understandable.

Good luck

 

[deleted382095]

I had put up a similar thread but have a bit of a different question now. I will be a junior in the fall and had been working in the same lab for 4 semesters now. This last semester I received a B(while getting As the previous semesters), as did two other undergrads. Yesterday we were told that our lab simply has higher standards than other labs, where As are simply handed out (not getting an A is pretty uncommon at our institution for undergrad research) and if we still felt strongly about it we were free to leave. Considering the fact that Im afraid of more Bs and I can't envision an additional two years with this PI (he has tended to be condescending and mean this semester) I have tentatively decided not to pursue research in his lab anymore and of course not ask for a LOR when I apply two years from now. I'm wondering though how thats gonna look? I have heard everything from no one will notice to this will sink you.

I plan on getting LORs from two profs i have set up TA opportunities with and another 1 or two from my ECs.

Well tbh i guess this isnt that different but hey whatever.

I won't leave a research group over a B. You can always work harder and earn back his trust next semester. a LoR from a professor you've known for 4 years will weigh a lot more than someone you've only know for a year.

 

[tiedyeddog]

I won't leave a research group over a B. You can always work harder and earn back his trust next semester. a LoR from a professor you've known for 4 years will weigh a lot more than someone you've only know for a year.

I would be really worried it is going to be a bad LOR.

 

[deleted382095]

I would be really worried it is going to be a bad LOR.

A lot of things could happen in the next 2 years. It's not like the OP needs a LoR anytime soon.

 

[sghos]

More than the B is my concern that any shot of getting a positive rec is very small. He has become mercurial this semester and I fear that would continue.

I would say it was valuable but other pursuits (oncology volunteering and suicide hotline volunteering captured my passion, which would be the truth) and I felt I needed more time to more heavily pursue them. And of course I would try to pursue another research position in a semester.

 

[deleted382095]

More than the B is my concern that any shot of getting a positive rec is very small. He has become mercurial this semester and I fear that would continue.

I would say it was valuable but other pursuits (oncology volunteering and suicide hotline volunteering captured my passion, which would be the truth) and I felt I needed more time to more heavily pursue them. And of course I would try to pursue another research position in a semester.

I think this is the part where you have to be honest with yourself, did you get too comfortable in his lab and result in receiving a B in research?

Too comfortable as in,

1) showed up late to the weekly meeting constantly
2) turned in sub-par quality lab reports/presentations/assignments
3) did not spent enough of hours in the lab/office
4) slow/no progression in research
5) unwilling to come in on weekends
6) unwilling to spend extra time in the lab/office
7) unwilling to step-up your game and be responsible for a specific project/assignment

The expectation for a 3rd year researcher is definitely a lot higher than someone who just joined the group because you're more experienced.

 

[418865]

More than the B is my concern that any shot of getting a positive rec is very small. He has become mercurial this semester and I fear that would continue.

I would say it was valuable but other pursuits (oncology volunteering and suicide hotline volunteering captured my passion, which would be the truth) and I felt I needed more time to more heavily pursue them. And of course I would try to pursue another research position in a semester.

If you are confident that your PI will not give you a good LOR..then I think it's better to quit now and find a better lab (and get a LOR from new PI) than this one...since not having LOR after 4 years of research will look bad.

But anyway, you don't HAVE to do research all through your undergrad years...if u feel passionate, by all means puruse new lab. Also, have you considered just volunteering your time for this lab? That way, the grade portion will be out of the question..but I wouldn't do that if my PI hates me/wont recommend me for med school...

 

[sghos]

ECU i think you might have misconstrued my "I would say it was valuable..." That was what i would hypothetically say if it came up in an interview. No i did not show up late, i did come in on the weekends when asked, and did put in a good number of long days. I understand where you are coming from. if i was the only one to receive such a grade i would blame myself entirely. But the fact that two others, quite dedicated, also received Bs. I think that does say something. Innovative that might be an option. Thanks for that.

 

[SEE13]

How firm are you about your decision to leave the lab? I had a similar situation (put a TON of work into a project and received less-than-stellar feedback from my PI) and I felt that the situation was hopeless. Like you, I was told that standards in my lab are simply higher than other labs, and I didn't make the cut. Long story short, I completely empathize with your situation.

I would suggest asking for a meeting with your PI (by yourself, not with the other undergrads) and ask him to outline EXACTLY why you got a B. Make it clear that your work in the lab is important to you, and you want to know exactly how high his standards are so that you can meet and surpass them. When he tells you what you could do to improve, take notes. Continue to work in the lab, and make a point of doing EVERYTHING he said you could improve upon. If you aren't sure whether he's noticing after some time, meet with him and ask him whether you have improved and what you could do to improve even more.

I am sure your PI is tough, and I bet he has seen many people leave the lab after getting poor reviews. However, I bet he hasn't seen many people rise to the challenge and go above and beyond his expectations. Imagine how great your LOR will be if you are the one student who sticks around, even after he has challenged you. It may seem impossible to make him happy, but I did something similar, and it worked for me.

If you were on an admissions committee, would you rather accept a pre-med who left a lab for fear of getting bad grades, or a pre-med who, after getting a B, stepped up his/her game and excelled?

 

[An MD Hopeful]

I think you should leave the lab and try to work in someone else's lab. Try to look for another P.I. who has a better reputation and get a letter from him or her.

The P.I. who gave you a B sounds like the kind of person who will critique you in his LOR no matter what you do. You don't want to risk sending in a negative L.O.R. just because the P.I. is a jerk. Get the heck out of that lab and find a better lab to work in. Maybe find a doctor with whom you could do clinical research if you prefer that over working in another lab.

 

[deleted382095]

I think you should leave the lab and try to work in someone else's lab. Try to look for another P.I. who has a better reputation and get a letter from him or her.

The P.I. who gave you a B sounds like the kind of person who will critique you in his LOR no matter what you do. You don't want to risk sending in a negative L.O.R. just because the P.I. is a jerk. Get the heck out of that lab and find a better lab to work in. Maybe find a doctor with whom you could do clinical research if you prefer that over working in another lab.

Guuuuuuurrrrrrl Puuuuuuh-lease

 

[Maroon5777]

A lot of things could happen in the next 2 years. It's not like the OP needs a LoR anytime soon.

Get outta there. It's not worth the time and effort to try to get on the PI's good side. He seems like a jerk. This 2 year experience will really look good on your application, but don't get a letter from him.

Now go find a better research app with a better PI.

Don't get a letter from this guy, or you'll be shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Revolver1045]

You could start working in another lab. Get some experience there and not note on your amcas application that you ever worked in the lab your currently working in. Also, if you do decide to note it in your EC's when the time comes you may have accumulated more letters of Rec and may not have space to even include this guys letter depending on the school that your applying to (run on sentence too tired to correct)