Leaving Lab with a B

[sghos]

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Just looking for some feedback here. All opinions welcome.

I joined a lab fall semester freshmen year and things had been going fairly well up until this last semester. Me and a partner were assigned a fairly difficult project (the professor has had a good deal of difficulty with it as well when he has worked with us). Out of 4 undergrads, 3 including me, were given Bs for our research grade this semester. This is very uncommon at our institution, where doing undergrad research for credit is almost always a perfunctory A as long as you show up and put in the hours you sign up for. Today I went in to see the prof and he refused to change the B saying "Our lab is not like the other labs where they hand out As; you knew what you were getting into" (Obviously I had no clue that he was this harsh until this semester or i would have left long ago). Considering the fact that I have a competitive GPA, good ECs, and two classes I will be TAing in the fall (with nice profs who I'm planning to get LORs from when I apply senior year;I'm a rising junior right now) I've come to the conclusion that its best for me to leave (although I haven't yet told that to the prof, but soon will).

My question is how bad is this gonna look? I imagine i will be asked about it and i will reiterate what i have said in the previous paragraph. Is this gonna be a killer for me or is it gonna be a B and not given a second thought (ie nothing more than a crappy grade)? Sorry the buildup was long, I felt I needed to explain the situation.

 

[235788]

It won't look bad. Just get out -- and maybe give research another go your senior year.

 

[sghos]

I did 4 semesters of research with him. First semester was just pass fail and then I received 2 As and then this almost out of nowhere B. I hope that at least counts for something.

 

[Trauma16]

I wouldn't worry too much. A "B" is not that crappy a grade, and I'm sure most adcoms wouldn't give it a second thought. If it were a C or lower, than it would put up a red flag, but I don't think you have to worry too much about a B. I would definitely give research another shot though, as doing very well in a research class will be advantageous for your application as a whole.

 

[ReptarBar]

your PI is going to write that you left after being dissatisfied with a B. if you are aiming for top research schools, then you will find that they have so many applicants with perfect research and great LORs. my suggestion would be to stay in the lab for at least 1 semester more and get A grades so he won't even mention it. if you don't plan on getting a LOR from him, then whatever.

 

[sghos]

well yea at this point i would not be interested in getting a LOR from him. so im guessing just the B would show?

 

[235788]

well yea at this point i would not be interested in getting a LOR from him. so im guessing just the B would show?

they really aren't going to look that into it...Its not a "C" or lower

 

[AestheticGod]

I really don't understand why so many people consider a "B" a bad grade...is it REALLY that bad?..

I don't wanna see what happens when you guys get a C, might see a "Local students commits suicide thinking he'll only get into Caribbean med schools cause of his C"

 

[Valadi]

I got into med school with a B in research my soph year. W/e it's a nonissue. It will not affect admissions decisions to any school, anywhere. You'd have gotten the interview there regardless of your lab grade for 1 semester.

 

[sghos]

I guess my best bet is to look for another research opportunity in a semester or so (I will be pretty busy in the fall with two TAships going on). But i imagine that will get significantly harder because I am going to have to explain this B to a prospective PI.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

well yea at this point i would not be interested in getting a LOR from him. so im guessing just the B would show?

If you put down a lab experience on your application the school is going to want to see a LOR from that PI. You don't really even have the choice anymore since you have all that research credit on your transcript so even if you don't mention it on your application every school you apply to is going to know you're hiding research experience from them which would raise one hell of a red flag.

The best way to handle that situation is to not beg for a better grade (professors hate that, especially research-focused professors) and instead ask why you got the bad grade and, this is important, what you can do to improve. Really emphasize that last part because that's the difference between pissing off your PI and slightly impressing him. I would only quit and find a new lab if the experience you're getting is mediocre (ex: washing dishes and autoclaving), there's little prospect for getting your own project, or the project you're working on is being scuttled by lab drama/PI issues/etc.

Anyway, I can sympathize with you. I joined a lab similar to yours that held me to a far higher standard than most other labs held their undergrads to. The result was that I was given high honors for my honors thesis (at my college honors was based solely on how your thesis committee rated you) despite the fact that my thesis was well received and virtually everyone in the college gets highest honors by default. The best part was that of all of the people I knew who got highest honors (ie everyone else), they all did things during the stint of their research that would have gotten me instantly kicked out of my lab if I had tried to pull something similar (like typing up your thesis a week before it's due, doing your graphs in excel, and not even bothering to proofread because you assume the PI will do it for you).

I really don't understand why so many people consider a "B" a bad grade...is it REALLY that bad?..

I don't wanna see what happens when you guys get a C, might see a "Local students commits suicide thinking he'll only get into Caribbean med schools cause of his C"

You do know that actually does happen right? There's a reason why a lot of the top schools run their own suicide hotlines and advertise them heavily during exam weeks. I went to one such school and the administration frequently sent out emails telling people to watch their friends/roommates carefully for signs of depression and report them to student health services if they started showing symptoms. It was that bad.

 

[sghos]

OCD:

I just finished up sophomore year. Im intending to apply senior year. Given that timeline, isnt it reasonable to assume that one could pursue something different over the next two years (be it research, TAing, clinical stuff) and get LORs from those activities. Is this gonna be a giant red flag? I would stick it out but I don't want to do another two years of this with this PI. Also my school sends out committee letters

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

If you put down a lab experience on your application the school is going to want to see a LOR from that PI. You don't really even have the choice anymore since you have all that research credit on your transcript so even if you don't mention it on your application every school you apply to is going to know you're hiding research experience from them which would raise one hell of a red flag.

I took a 'research seminar' course for two credits that involved no actual research but instead was a preliminary course during which we read and discussed articles and prepared a 15-30 page introduction to a thesis. Since this isn't actual research but the course name implies it is, would this be something that will come up in an interview or will the 'red flag' be raised before then and the invites already be withheld?

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

OCD:

I just finished up sophomore year. Im intending to apply senior year. Given that timeline, isnt it reasonable to assume that one could pursue something different over the next two years (be it research, TAing, clinical stuff) and get LORs from those activities. Is this gonna be a giant red flag? I would stick it out but I don't want to do another two years of this with this PI. Also my school sends out committee letters

You would still want a LOR from your current PI even if you quit to do something else. Reason being that you've spent two years doing serious, relevant work with this guy and thus med schools would expect that such a person would be on your short list for LOR writers. If they don't see a letter from him, they're going to wonder why. It's the same reason why not having a committee letter if your school offers one is so bad; it's an excellent resource, and the most common reason why a person would apply without such a letter is because the letter that would have been written wasn't good.

Anyway, yes, two years is enough time to accomplish something in another lab or to pursue other activities. In fact, if you have no other ECs (especially no clinical experience) then you could definitely make a convincing case that the reason you dropped research was to build up the rest of your application (although be careful how you say that since it could come off as showing that you can't juggle multiple demanding activities at the same time). The problem is that since you complained to your PI about your grade, quitting now would look very bad since everyone is naturally going to assume that you only quit because you were upset over a B. If med schools get wind of that (which they will if your PI mentions it or if they notice that you stopped researching after you got a B in a research credit), it will devastate your chances of getting accepted since it puts a bad light on virtually every aspect of your application. This will be further exacerbated if you have any W's on your transcript since then you would have a clear pattern of quitting whenever the going gets tough.

Here's what I would suggest: Assuming you don't have any (or at least not much) clinical experience yet, look into getting some now. Make sure it's a real clinical experience with patient interaction, not some clerical slave position where you're stuck in a backroom sorting 20 year old files all day. Do that as much as you can while balancing research and classes. Do this for the entirety of your upcoming fall semester. Upon re-establishing a good reputation with your PI (most easily demonstrated by getting another A in a research credit), quit the lab and focus on clinical volunteering and shadowing. Then in your personal statement and med school interviews you can convincingly claim that the reason you quit the lab was because you discovered you liked medicine/helping people much more than science, and you can also throw in some anecdote about this is how you know you want to be a doctor. You also demonstrate you can hold a demanding schedule. Not only does this get you out of your lab with your reputation intact, but it gives an enormous boost to your application. Obviously there's some risk to this (you could get another B and dig yourself in deeper, the increased time demands could result in lower grades/worse performance in the lab), but if you think you can handle it this is definitely the best way to go imo.

I took a 'research seminar' course for two credits that involved no actual research but instead was a preliminary course during which we read and discussed articles and prepared a 15-30 page introduction to a thesis. Since this isn't actual research but the course name implies it is, would this be something that will come up in an interview or will the 'red flag' be raised before then and the invites already be withheld?

The "seminar" in "Research Seminar" makes it clear to anyone reading it that the class involved reading/writing, not actual hands-on research. No one will be expecting a PI LOR from that. Typically the real research credits are called "Undergraduate Research" or "Honors Research" and have the maximum course number designation for an undergrad course (eg: 499R, 4999R). What you described is more commonly called "Supervised Reading" or "Supervised Writing".

 

[sghos]

i will speak with him and if he is willing to continue with him i may very well continue for the summer. OCD, I dont have any Ws. My sGPA so far has been decent (3.85ish) and ive been an EMT since beginning of freshman year active with my college squad, started volunteering at the cancer wing and crisis hotline earlier this year, am a CPR instructor, have done a bit of shadowing which i will bump up later this summer, and volunteered at my local hospital and did aquatic therapy with disabled children last summer. That isnt amazing clincal stuff but its par for the course i feel. Its just this mess thats worrying me.

At this point maybe its best to withdraw from the lab. Rack up two TA experiences in the fall which should keep me busy and use those to try to get some sort of lab position in the spring.