Leaving residency/Career change

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tech06

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Hi all,
First time posting here, I'll try to be to the point. I am almost half-way through my intern year in IM and very much considering (or almost certain right now) leaving at the end of this year. The reason is that I basically am not interested in any aspect of medicine or surgery. I was a Mechanical Engineer in college and halfway through woke up one day thinking that I should go to med school, so I took the extra courses and applied. I really think it just seemed exotic and exciting at the time.

I went straight from college to medicine without any actual engineering work experience. I made it fine through med school without hitting on something I enjoyed and chose IM thinking it would leave the most doors open. All along I've had doubts that just keep getting bigger, now I feel like I'm getting way too locked in. (but I think my program is fair and do not blame it for my current misery)

So, now I want to go back to engineering. I actually really enjoyed it in college and the atmosphere is much much more suited for me. My question is if there is any way to use my M.D. to some sort of advantage right after I leave. I would prefer to have mostly engineering work and less of the clinical/medical side. And does completing intern year with Step 3 help at all (definitely taking it because I already paid a crap ton for it) All I can think of right now is to apply to a general entry level job, like at Northrop Grumman/GE/Boeing but do not know if having this 5 year break is going to limit me. Obviously, it would be important for me to go straight to work around July next year, but luckily I have very little debt right now.

I would appreciate any advice, especially anything specific. Thank you in advance.
 
don't know much about engineering. Have you considered doing some graduate course work in biomedical engineering? Unless you get some type of job designing medical devices, I don't see how the MD degree would help you.
 
Scour the internet for "Medical Device Fellowships" or "Bioengineering Fellowships." As they are somewhat esoteric and don't have board certification, it's much tougher to get information on them. However I know of one resident who did two years of general surgery, then went out to Cali to do some sort of "instrument inventing" fellowship. I would spend some time researching this aspect, because it sounds like you may get some real joy in this line of work. Some may require you to finish your residency, some might not, but definitely don't give up just yet. Plus the potential income in these fields is quite high.
 
You could try this-http://biodesign.stanford.edu/bdn/fellowships/

This might be what Biscuit799 is alluding to.

Good luck.
 
Here is what I think you should do.
First, I think it is great if you finish your intern year. You should DEFINITELY take and pass the Step 3 just in case you ever decide you want to get back into clinical medicine, even if it's just 5% clinical medicine in a new job. Your MD may come in more handy than you think. For example, I did a research year between medicine residency and fellowship and sometimes the PhD's or nurses in my lab needed a physician to "sign off" on things related to patient studies we were doing (for example, just eyeball some labs the patient had done, etc.). They just needed someone with a medical license to sign off on stuff - it made me more useful, basically. So staying in residency should at least be considered, but given that you don't want to and have little debt, I don't think you should feel forced. It would be cool if you could get a license, but in most states I think you'd need more than 1 year of residency to get one, and you really don't seem like you want to finish your residency.

I think that you should tell your program director that you want to explore other interests, like biomedical engineering, and that you would like a leave of absence for 1 year (starting July 1st next year) with the option of returning to residency later on. I say this only because if you get 4-6 months into engineering and find out it's not as cool as you thought, or that you somehow get a longing to return to patient care, etc. that you would have the option. You can tell him any time, but I'm thinking in your situation I'd wait a month or two, just until you have a more firm plan of what to do. It just seems more safe to have the option of returning to residency, and I don't think that 100% brutal honesty is necessary (in other words, I wouldn't admit that maybe you applied to med school a bit on a lark and didn't think it through quite enough, etc.). I would suggest not admitting that you don't like IM or don't like patient care - there's really no reason to and I don't see anything wrong in sugar coating all this to your PD. It's kind of the way people play the game in general. It's not that your PD would necessarily guarantee you a spot if you decide to come back in a year, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

I think it would be great if you went to work for a medical device company or something. There are always new devices, etc. coming out for all the procedural specialties. For example, there are all those defibrillators, pacemakers, etc. for cardiology, and all the equipment that we use in the cath lab (it's A LOT). I'm sure GI and the various surgical specialties all have a bunch of stuff, too. It's just something to consider.
 
dragonfly99 said:
Here is what I think you should do.
First, I think it is great if you finish your intern year. You should DEFINITELY take and pass the Step 3 just in case you ever decide you want to get back into clinical medicine, even if it's just 5% clinical medicine in a new job. Your MD may come in more handy than you think. For example, I did a research year between medicine residency and fellowship and sometimes the PhD's or nurses in my lab needed a physician to "sign off" on things related to patient studies we were doing (for example, just eyeball some labs the patient had done, etc.). They just needed someone with a medical license to sign off on stuff - it made me more useful, basically. So staying in residency should at least be considered, but given that you don't want to and have little debt, I don't think you should feel forced. It would be cool if you could get a license, but in most states I think you'd need more than 1 year of residency to get one, and you really don't seem like you want to finish your residency.

I think that you should tell your program director that you want to explore other interests, like biomedical engineering, and that you would like a leave of absence for 1 year (starting July 1st next year) with the option of returning to residency later on. I say this only because if you get 4-6 months into engineering and find out it's not as cool as you thought, or that you somehow get a longing to return to patient care, etc. that you would have the option. You can tell him any time, but I'm thinking in your situation I'd wait a month or two, just until you have a more firm plan of what to do. It just seems more safe to have the option of returning to residency, and I don't think that 100% brutal honesty is necessary (in other words, I wouldn't admit that maybe you applied to med school a bit on a lark and didn't think it through quite enough, etc.). I would suggest not admitting that you don't like IM or don't like patient care - there's really no reason to and I don't see anything wrong in sugar coating all this to your PD. It's kind of the way people play the game in general. It's not that your PD would necessarily guarantee you a spot if you decide to come back in a year, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

I think it would be great if you went to work for a medical device company or something. There are always new devices, etc. coming out for all the procedural specialties. For example, there are all those defibrillators, pacemakers, etc. for cardiology, and all the equipment that we use in the cath lab (it's A LOT). I'm sure GI and the various surgical specialties all have a bunch of stuff, too. It's just something to consider.
Click to expand...
^ This. Don't burn the bridges. It hurts badly.
 
Since you've never worked in engineering, you'll probably fail to find happiness there.

Life isn't fair and happiness is about perspective, not vocation. If you cannot find anything medical interesting at this point, you need a change of perspective....otherwise you'll find yourself in the same position soon enough.
 
there are some things you can do with just an MD, internship and step 3 as long as you get your licence.

you could own a medispa. its kind of doctorish and makes $$. im sure its not easy and there are costs involved but something to do with your MD. you can even work as a gp..of course it is an uphill battle, and patients pay you out of pocket but i've seen it done.

You can also work as a General Medical Officer (GMO), they pay nicely, like 100k or so. those are on usajobs.com

more easily done is to work for insurance companies doing H&P's. get a phone book and call around to see who will hire you.


:luck:
 
I think someone recently was in a similar situation on here and I thought they should look at finishing their intern year and then going into occupational health. The field has a wide variety in how "clinical" it can be (at least from my readings about it) and an engineering background could be used for heading towards things like ergonomics, etc. I wonder if you completed this training (three years total one of which is usually an MPH) you wouldn't become more highly desirable to an engineering outfit with you having a more unique, but fully fleshed out CV having gone through this pathway.
 
Hi, thanks for the replies.
I guess I am looking more towards the purely engineering field. My main concern is that residency is not preparing me at all for this, so I'm thinking of just throwing my resume out there for entry level positions over winter and spring. The starting salary isn't outstanding but around what I'm making now if not a bit more. I'll be finishing intern year/step 3 mostly just to keep the doors open, plus I would feel bad leaving the program and other interns in a bind.

But again, I don't know how employers would feel about my several year absence from the field, which was why I was hoping there was some way to incorporate the M.D. Something like medical devices would be cool if I was on the research and design side. I've always been interested in green technology, automotive, and energy infrastructure which my medical education would be of zero help.

As far as changing perspective and happiness, it can't all be found in medicine for everyone, at least in my opinion. The non-clinical fields are still limited. From what I've done in engineering it is vastly different (we all had to do some applied engineering work for our degree, plus I did research/design projects as an undergrad).

I think I'll also post this in an engineering forum (I assume there is some sort of SDN equivalent??) Or any M.D now engineers happen to be reading this?
 
McGillGrad said:
Since you've never worked in engineering, you'll probably fail to find happiness there.

Life isn't fair and happiness is about perspective, not vocation. If you cannot find anything medical interesting at this point, you need a change of perspective....otherwise you'll find yourself in the same position soon enough.
Click to expand...

I 100% agree with this, having come from a finance background and struggled through the first couple of years of med school. Finished up residency, and basically hated everything related to medicine.... was debating about going back and decided that a perspective change was what I needed.

I actually am enjoying my life now. Yes, there are problems with everything, but perspective is key.

I guess I don't understand how you made it through medical school if you weren't interested in it. It is a lot of material and studying to be bored through!

Biomedical engineering would be a good avenue.... many of them are MD-PhDs. Definitely sit for Step 3 though. I would hate for you to change back to ME, and then realize what you are missing, or regret it. Good luck in whatever you do, and I hope you find the happiness you are seeking.
 
Definitely some kind of BME type stuff seems like it'd leverage your talents the best? Oddly enough I feel like it might help if you could spend some time in the OR even, since there's a lot of engineering that goes into surgical equipment that you could do that might be more similar to pure mechanical engineering than BME. I dunno how you'd go about scoring time in the OR without doing a surgery residency though lol.
 
just a random point but over half the docs I work with are former engineers.
 
i'm not in the same situation but having the same feelings. i'm also close to halfway through intern year and worried about not being happy at the end or having enough drive to get through residency. my career was planned out for me by others and have not had any education or experience in other work, so i have no idea what my alternatives are. i'm not limited by loans, but am limited by expectations and my lack of knowing what else to do or internal direction. if you are able to make a change and become happier, i will be glad for you.

dragonfly made some very good points. for me i am definitely going to finish intern year and take step 3. i came to the conlusion that that is the very least that anyone leaving should do, might as well finish at some tangible level instead of quiting during intern year, unless you are 100% sure you want nothing to do with the health care field anymore. but it sounds like you may be doing biomed so i would not stop now. getting help from the PD and not dropping a bomb on him/her at the last minute is also a good idea, i think.

good luck and maybe let us know later on how it turns out? i'd be interested to know. i've read posts here about other people who switched specialties or changed to a totally different career altogether. others with similar doubts finished residency and ended up fine, too.
 
As someone who also studied mechanical engineering prior to medical school, let me make a few comments:

1. I don't think you'll find those engineering jobs very appealing. I went through the process of searching for engineering jobs when I transitioned out of clinical medicine.

2. You can offer tremendous value to companies and organizations given your educational background. Don't undersell yourself.

3. If you have significant loans, don't forget the pragmatic side of paying those loans off. Engineering salary is often much lower than any "medical affairs" type of career.

4. There are more opportunities and options than you probably realize. Do your research and discover what they are.
 
tech06 said:
Hi all,
First time posting here, I'll try to be to the point. I am almost half-way through my intern year in IM and very much considering (or almost certain right now) leaving at the end of this year. The reason is that I basically am not interested in any aspect of medicine or surgery. I was a Mechanical Engineer in college and halfway through woke up one day thinking that I should go to med school, so I took the extra courses and applied. I really think it just seemed exotic and exciting at the time.

I went straight from college to medicine without any actual engineering work experience. I made it fine through med school without hitting on something I enjoyed and chose IM thinking it would leave the most doors open. All along I've had doubts that just keep getting bigger, now I feel like I'm getting way too locked in. (but I think my program is fair and do not blame it for my current misery)

So, now I want to go back to engineering. I actually really enjoyed it in college and the atmosphere is much much more suited for me. My question is if there is any way to use my M.D. to some sort of advantage right after I leave. I would prefer to have mostly engineering work and less of the clinical/medical side. And does completing intern year with Step 3 help at all (definitely taking it because I already paid a crap ton for it) All I can think of right now is to apply to a general entry level job, like at Northrop Grumman/GE/Boeing but do not know if having this 5 year break is going to limit me. Obviously, it would be important for me to go straight to work around July next year, but luckily I have very little debt right now.

I would appreciate any advice, especially anything specific. Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...

Here is how I view your situation:

1. You haven't been "in love" with medicine for a long time, so waking up and taking care of patients doesn't mean much to you emotionally in terms of it being something you want to do on a daily basis. I would figure that after half a year of internship (and two clinical years in med school) you would be an adult and know if it was a good career for you or not. If you really loved it then you wouldn't be on SDN asking people where the engineering messaging board is (you really need to learn how to Google and gather information efficiently yourself).

2. You have somewhat lost your ability to think realistically about your life in the civilian world (i.e. away from medicine ;-)), so you are asking some pretty basic questions which people just out of college are asking themselves all the time, like "do I apply for a low level position in company X". Nobody is in your shoes, unless maybe there are one or two other residents who want to quit and do engineering.

3. You over estimate the value of SDN. I really don't like SDN that much because a lot of malcontents gather here and gripe about medicine, they do a diservice to people dealing with issues like yours. On the engineering side you gotta realize that 90% of people don't have engineering degrees, or are biased one way or another about medicine and engineering, and that you don't have a lot of senior level people on this board (i.e. biomedical engineering folks) who can really answer your question. Obviously some engineers use the MD if they have one, and others don't.

Nobody here is going to research this engineering job issue for you and then report back with good info.

4. The real question you asking is something along the lines of, "I don't like medicine, . . . I don't like internship . . . I want to go back to being a biomedical engineering student, talk to me about this and help me work through my emotions." If you have a bachelors in some engineering field then you most likely know how to play the engineering game, what courses you will need, like maybe a masters, to be competitive.

People here will tell you to keep your doors open and such, obviously as they want to do medicine. In the end if you don't know what you want to do then any advice given here is meaningless.

I wouldn't take any of the advice here as what you do involves you and nobody here. You need to talk to people who are really in engineering, like maybe advisors at your undergraduate school.
 
I would just like to enter a quick vote for the BME product design fellowship idea, if only because I would guess that's your only path at this point into an engineering career that could possibly be any better than medicine. I was a mechanical engineer and I think that, without relevant job experience, a professional engineering lisence, or relevant work experience you're mainly employable as an AutoCAD monkey for someone who does a lot of HVAC (assuming you even remember AutoCAD). There's no way to get promoted from that kind of job to any kind of interesting design work. I didn't have very much work experience before I jumped into medicine either, though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
 
I graduated as an electrical engineer and found a job at a national lab making quite a bit of money and the work (atleast at first) seemed very fascinating.

I am now pursuing medical school because most engineers don't do engineering for long. To make money or progress up the hierarchical structure of a company, you really have to shift into the business side of engineering.

The work is consistent so you can have more choices of hobbies outside of work but if you are the type that gets bored easily - engineering may not be for you.

If I were you, I'd try to get an internship for a summer just to see if you like it.
 
I recently left clinical medicine for something I hadn't considered until recently. I'm now in consulting. I was fortunate enough to be referred into a firm, and into a specific area of that firm, where clinical people are welcome even without business experience. The business aspect needed to do the job can be learned on the job. The area of health care consulting we focus on is booming. Hospitals are bleeding red ink in massive quantities (think hundreds of millions of dollars). There are a number of things that consultant firms bring to the table that can help with that.

Keep your options open. You never know what you will turn up. And I also recommend that you at least finish internship and take step 3.
 
I advice you to choose a light PGY2 residency as nuclear medicine or radiation oncology, most of the time you will find open positions.
 
Meet the minimum requirements for your state. http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html

Then open your own practice taking cash only and cater it to what you want it to be. If you are ready to throw in the towel, why not at least given medicine in its purest most basic form a change? If that doesn't work out being your own boss shaping a practice the way you want it, then go be an engineer. Your segway back into the field might have to be through getting a masters in engineering.
 
notinkansas said:
I recently left clinical medicine for something I hadn't considered until recently. I'm now in consulting. I was fortunate enough to be referred into a firm, and into a specific area of that firm, where clinical people are welcome even without business experience. The business aspect needed to do the job can be learned on the job. The area of health care consulting we focus on is booming. Hospitals are bleeding red ink in massive quantities (think hundreds of millions of dollars). There are a number of things that consultant firms bring to the table that can help with that.

Keep your options open. You never know what you will turn up. And I also recommend that you at least finish internship and take step 3.
Click to expand...

Congrats on your new gig! Like yourself, I too escaped from medicine. I recently walked away from medicine after surviving through a four year residency and a short stint in private practice. Came to the realization that no way am I going to continue to ***** my life away in our soul sucking American healthcare system. I am now in a non healthcare career that I LOVE 😍and one I can happily see myself doing well into my 70′s. Getting out of work by 2:30 and having weekends off for life, I feel as if I won the lottery. If you are lucky enough to find something that you love to do than you don't have to work a day in your life! There's nothing like getting paid to play. I don't think you can put a price tag on that. My only regret is that I didn’t leave ten years earlier! My medical license will lapse in March and I could care less.:meanie: I have NO desire to ever return. Absolutely none whatsoever! Ever experience being in a nightmare and you knew you were in one yet you couldn’t wake up? That is exactly how I would describe my life’s brush with medicine. So many physicians daydream or talk about leaving for good. Mustering the courage and finding the light to get out is the hardest part. But once you do, the sense of freedom you will feel is utter bliss. Over the past six months, my life couldn’t be any better and I feel as if I have been reborn. God, I am so glad I got out! I hope those in a similar situation reading this can find peace the way I did. You have to fight for your happiness. It don't come easy. That's for sure.
 
medicinesux said:
Congrats on your new gig! Like yourself, I too escaped from medicine. I recently walked away from medicine after surviving through a four year residency and a short stint in private practice. Came to the realization that no way am I going to continue to ***** my life away in our soul sucking American healthcare system. I am now in a non healthcare career that I LOVE 😍and one I can happily see myself doing well into my 70′s. Getting out of work by 2:30 and having weekends off for life, I feel as if I won the lottery. If you are lucky enough to find something that you love to do than you don't have to work a day in your life! There's nothing like getting paid to play. I don't think you can put a price tag on that. My only regret is that I didn’t leave ten years earlier! My medical license will lapse in March and I could care less.:meanie: I have NO desire to ever return. Absolutely none whatsoever! Ever experience being in a nightmare and you knew you were in one yet you couldn’t wake up? That is exactly how I would describe my life’s brush with medicine. So many physicians daydream or talk about leaving for good. Mustering the courage and finding the light to get out is the hardest part. But once you do, the sense of freedom you will feel is utter bliss. Over the past six months, my life couldn’t be any better and I feel as if I have been reborn. God, I am so glad I got out! I hope those in a similar situation reading this can find peace the way I did. You have to fight for your happiness. It don't come easy. That's for sure.
Click to expand...

What specialty were you in and what made you go into medicine in the first place? I've been to your website and I'm seriously considering what you have to say.
 
medicinesux said:
Congrats on your new gig! Like yourself, I too escaped from medicine. I recently walked away from medicine after surviving through a four year residency and a short stint in private practice. Came to the realization that no way am I going to continue to ***** my life away in our soul sucking American healthcare system. I am now in a non healthcare career that I LOVE 😍and one I can happily see myself doing well into my 70′s. Getting out of work by 2:30 and having weekends off for life, I feel as if I won the lottery. If you are lucky enough to find something that you love to do than you don't have to work a day in your life! There's nothing like getting paid to play. I don't think you can put a price tag on that. My only regret is that I didn’t leave ten years earlier! My medical license will lapse in March and I could care less.:meanie: I have NO desire to ever return. Absolutely none whatsoever! Ever experience being in a nightmare and you knew you were in one yet you couldn’t wake up? That is exactly how I would describe my life’s brush with medicine. So many physicians daydream or talk about leaving for good. Mustering the courage and finding the light to get out is the hardest part. But once you do, the sense of freedom you will feel is utter bliss. Over the past six months, my life couldn’t be any better and I feel as if I have been reborn. God, I am so glad I got out! I hope those in a similar situation reading this can find peace the way I did. You have to fight for your happiness. It don't come easy. That's for sure.
Click to expand...

Thanks for another extremely vague, ranty, unhelpful, "non-clinical career" post. You and drjosephkim should get together and start a useless mutual admiration society.

I too am doing something "non-clinical" with my life, it's called SCIENCE. I love it and can't imagine doing anything else.

But I keep my medical license for one simple reason...cash money b**ches. I moonlight 2-3x a month in addition to my research work. First shift = student loan payments. Second shift = Rent/Mortgage. Third shift = Private school tuition for my kid. And I'm done. My actual salary is gravy.

Could I make more as a clinician? Sure...3-6x more. I actually like clinical medicine, but I love research. I knew this all going in and have not been disappointed at any point in this process.

To the OP, do enough training to get a license (whatever that requires for your background) and keep it active for now. Then go do whatever makes you happy. The medical field is not a panacea and if it's not your bag, so be it. But you've come/gone a long way and ignoring viable career options at this point would be stupid.
 
gutonc said:
Thanks for another extremely vague, ranty, unhelpful, "non-clinical career" post. You and drjosephkim should get together and start a useless mutual admiration society.

I too am doing something "non-clinical" with my life, it's called SCIENCE. I love it and can't imagine doing anything else.

But I keep my medical license for one simple reason...cash money b**ches. I moonlight 2-3x a month in addition to my research work. First shift = student loan payments. Second shift = Rent/Mortgage. Third shift = Private school tuition for my kid. And I'm done. My actual salary is gravy.

Could I make more as a clinician? Sure...3-6x more. I actually like clinical medicine, but I love research. I knew this all going in and have not been disappointed at any point in this process.

To the OP, do enough training to get a license (whatever that requires for your background) and keep it active for now. Then go do whatever makes you happy. The medical field is not a panacea and if it's not your bag, so be it. But you've come/gone a long way and ignoring viable career options at this point would be stupid.
Click to expand...

I still and always will enjoy science myself but practicing healthcare SUX BIG TIME! Glad to hear you love your work as much as I do now. If the sound of your alarm clock every morning is music to your ears than count your blessings! Though someone who feels the need to lash out against other posters makes me question the genuineness of their true feelings deep down inside.
Sorry to hear you can't give up your license. As for myself, my free time is golden and I will never trade it away for green paper. 35 hrs a week is the maximum I will ever put in during any given week and not a minute more (meaning I refuse to work any other second job, particularly a healthcare one!). I have rid excess spending in my life and have no need to ever work more than I ever have to. What's the need when you are able to comfortably live on less than 30 cents for every dollar you bring in?
 
medicinesux said:
Congrats on your new gig! Like yourself, I too escaped from medicine. I recently walked away from medicine after surviving through a four year residency and a short stint in private practice. Came to the realization that no way am I going to continue to ***** my life away in our soul sucking American healthcare system. I am now in a non healthcare career that I LOVE 😍and one I can happily see myself doing well into my 70′s. Getting out of work by 2:30 and having weekends off for life, I feel as if I won the lottery. If you are lucky enough to find something that you love to do than you don't have to work a day in your life! There's nothing like getting paid to play. I don't think you can put a price tag on that. My only regret is that I didn’t leave ten years earlier! My medical license will lapse in March and I could care less.:meanie: I have NO desire to ever return. Absolutely none whatsoever! Ever experience being in a nightmare and you knew you were in one yet you couldn’t wake up? That is exactly how I would describe my life’s brush with medicine. So many physicians daydream or talk about leaving for good. Mustering the courage and finding the light to get out is the hardest part. But once you do, the sense of freedom you will feel is utter bliss. Over the past six months, my life couldn’t be any better and I feel as if I have been reborn. God, I am so glad I got out! I hope those in a similar situation reading this can find peace the way I did. You have to fight for your happiness. It don't come easy. That's for sure.
Click to expand...


My new gig doesn't offer quite the freedom that yours does! Still, so far, so good though I still have a lot to learn about the job before I even know if I'll like it. I do like the company, thought- it's refreshing to be around smart, highly motivated, hard working people who want to add value. Things are still a little tight right now with my student loan payments, but I expect that to change fairly rapidly. The area I work in is booming- so bonuses and raises should be good (especially after a couple lean years). And I do have more control over how I structure my work day than I did in medicine.
 
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