LECOM-Erie vs KCUMB

[Dr. Hopeful]

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Let me start off by saying that my dream currently going into medical school is to practice emergency medicine in MI. I'm interested to hear some of your opinions on which school you think would offer me a more competitive application for emergency medicine residency matches in MI between these two schools. Here are my pros and cons, feel free to add any pros and cons you think I missed for either school!
KCUMB:
Pros:

• Higher board scores
• Possibly more established reputation? (would like some clarification here if true!)
• Far more affiliated hospitals in MI for 3rd/4th year rotations
• New dean, Dr. Dubin, seems confident that he can make any one of us into just as competitive an applicant as any MD in the country, and has a strong reputation to back this claim.
• Seemed to be a fun area to live in (I'm not worried about claims that it isn't the nicest part of KC, I was born and raised around Detroit and feel completely comfortable with the area down there)
• The interview day was incredible. Seriously. KCUMB quickly shot to the top of my list after my interview day. When I was informed of acceptance, I canceled interviews at most of my other schools.
• Does not seem to want to push students into primary care (HUGE point here).

Cons:

• Further from home (12 hour drive, as opposed to ~3.5 hour drive from LECOM)
• Higher tuition and slightly higher cost of living (I believe it comes to an extra ~$20,000 a year to attend KCUMB including cost of living)

LECOM:
Pros:

• Cheap tuition, cheap cost of living, and I still really enjoyed Erie, I would honestly feel fine living at either place, it's not like we'll be doing much besides studying in medical school anyways haha.
• Much closer to home, which is another huge point.
• Still one of my top 3 schools, it is both a curse and a blessing to be accepted into two of your top 3 schools.
• Absolutely beautiful gym/rec center for the students. I recently had to cut my Lifetime gym membership for financial reasons and would love to have another excellent gym like this one to attend.

Cons:

• Lower board scores
• Far less affiliated hospitals in MI (only 2 I believe)
• The school seems more catered towards primary care (which is definitely my number 2 option, but really emergency medicine is my dream for now, who knows how much that changes through medical school) and I am unsure if I will be as competitive for emergency medicine residency matches as a LECOM grad.

I have checked residency match statistics but really, it's hard to tell if they depict the entire story, and both schools were really hovering around 10% match rate for emergency medicine, so that didn't really help much. I'm posting here today just to gather some more opinions from fellow premeds, medical students, or anyone else that can pitch in! I absolutely loved both schools and would be so happy attending either school, but really I feel it is more important that I become a more competitive applicant for residency matches, and I don't mind moving further away if that is the reward because of it. Would love some input, thanks for reading this entire wall of text!

 

[baxt1412]

KCUMB's avg GPA is about 0.1 higher at 3.56 if that matters (likely not), just trying to add some more info.

 

[DaddyBex28]

Why not consider MSUCOM? More likely to be matched at a hospital in MI if you matriculate there.

 

[DaddyBex28]

But between the two you mentioned, I would have to say go with KCUMB.

 

[Dr. Hopeful]

Why not consider MSUCOM? More likely to be matched at a hospital in MI if you matriculate there.

Yup I applied to MSUCOM! Still waiting on word from them though, they like to fill up their class nice and slow haha.

 

[DaddyBex28]

Yup I applied to MSUCOM! Still waiting on word from them though, they like to fill up their class nice and slow haha.

Well good luck to you! If you were accepted to MSUCOM would you still go to KCUMB or LECOM?

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Are you an MI resident, otherwise I would not even entertain the idea of going to MSU. The cost is just too much - thats like go to jail kind of money...

Otherwise, thats actually quite a pickle. On the one hand I am super biased towards KCUMB and I think the location is solid and their away rotations (especially in Michigan, Florida, and Ohio) seem very strong. The strength of these locations is also evident in their match lists over the past few years... But dang, thats like an 80K difference, thats how LECOM grabs people man. Thats like 100-120K after interest, which is like half a house depending on the part of the country you live in. That is a tough pill to swallow...

My gut says just go with whatever is cheapest and that it wont matter. But I cant definitively say that I would not pick KCUMB over LECOM if I was in your shoes...

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Just from hearing stuff on SDN (strictly) I would say KCUMB. I know that SDN doesn't sample the entire community, however there aren't any KCUMB hate threads....

 

[AlteredScale]

As others have said as well, price is important and the 10K that you are saving is enormous in the long run.

Another factor to play into is curriculum: I'd say KCUMB has an advantage of is curriculum and potential for scoring high on the boards.

Lastly is clinical rotations: LECOM has a very strong presence in many hospitals in penn. However weather they are "good" sites is another thing. KCUMB offers core rotations at teaching hospitals. Also you want to see how much exposure you will get at these hospitals, if they are a small (100-200 beds), rural community clinical then you probably won't see as much pathology as a large university or community hospital in the middle of the city that has 300-500 beds and is a level 1 trauma center.

Also you want to consider research: KCUMB has a strong research division. Also, HHMI investigators at UMKC-Med as well KC-SOM to do a summer fellowship, also you have WashU nearby to do research as well.

 

[anon01]

As others have said as well, price is important and the 10K that you are saving is enormous in the long run.

Another factor to play into is curriculum: I'd say KCUMB has an advantage of is curriculum and potential for scoring high on the boards.

Lastly is clinical rotations: LECOM has a very strong presence in many hospitals in penn. However weather they are "good" sites is another thing. KCUMB offers core rotations at teaching hospitals. Also you want to see how much exposure you will get at these hospitals, if they are a small (100-200 beds), rural community clinical then you probably won't see as much pathology as a large university or community hospital in the middle of the city that has 300-500 beds and is a level 1 trauma center.

I just want to add on to this and this is just from my own research, LECOM seems to have the majority of it's past rotations done at hospitals with 200-400 beds. Do your own research on rotation sites and whether or not you are guaranteed one of these large hospitals. This goes for either school.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

As an MS1 I will tell you to pick the school with the lowest tuition and closest to home.

 

[Dr. Hopeful]

Yes I am a MI resident, yes I would still consider all 3 schools even if accepted into MSUCOM. Thanks for all the responses guys! But I want to simplify things a bit. I guess the real reason why I posted this is because I am wondering if I will have the same competitiveness matching into an EM residency from LECOM that I believe I will going to KCUMB. Cheaper and closer to home are excellent pros, but if I am in any way less competitive when it comes time to match, I will GLADLY pay an extra 100k. If I were to hypothetically get the same board scores at either school, is KCUMB going to make me more competitive anyways? Or is the board score everything and it really doesn't matter which school you go to after that? Again, thanks for all the input guys!

 

[Dr. Hopeful]

As an MS1 I will tell you to pick the school with the lowest tuition and closest to home.

I'd love to hear some more insight from this comment. I've been leaning towards KCUMB because I think it will make me more competitive, but do you think it's really difficult to move far away from home?

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

You said it yourself... The match rates in EM are the same at both schools... Worst comes to worst you don't get a residency spot in MI. Emergency medicine is a short residency, just move to MI after your done.

It honestly sounds like LECOM is more up your ally.

 

[buttfrogs]

If this was my choice I would absolutely choose KCUMB. I prefer the school, the setting, the lack of strict behavioral rules.. pretty much everything but the price. Plus GOOGLE FIBER.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

I'd love to hear some more insight from this comment. I've been leaning towards KCUMB because I think it will make me more competitive, but do you think it's really difficult to move far away from home?

I attend KCUMB.

I like it here but I wish I was closer to family. If I had to do it again I might have taken the higher tuition of my state school.

KCUMB is a great school but it won't provide a massive advantage over LECOM-E. Go to a good school and study your butt off is the best advice I can give you.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I rememeber reading that Umich doesn't allow people outside the 5 old DO schools to rotate or interview for residency with them. So it's probably better to go with KCUMB.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

I rememeber reading that Umich doesn't allow people outside the 5 old DO schools to rotate or interview for residency with them. So it's probably better to go with KCUMB.

http://medicine.umich.edu/medschool/education/visiting-students

Only osteopathic medical students attending the following schools may submit an application:

• A.T. Still - Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine
• Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University
• Kansas City University College of Osteopathic Medicine
• Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine
• Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine

 

[user3]

I rememeber reading that Umich doesn't allow people outside the 5 old DO schools to rotate or interview for residency with them. So it's probably better to go with KCUMB.

Wonder why their list doesn't have TCOM, OUHCOM, Rowan, or OSU.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Wonder why their list doesn't have TCOM, OUHCOM, Rowan, or OSU.

General ignorance and stupidity?

 

[Roxas]

I met a guy who just started residency here and went to LECOM-Erie. He was less than impressed with his experience there. If it's worth it to you to risk being unhappy to save money in tuition and be close to home, go for it.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I met a guy who just started residency here and went to LECOM-Erie. He was less than impressed with his experience there. If it's worth it to you to risk being unhappy to save money in tuition and be close to home, go for it.

I met a happy LECOM student. Personal anecdotes are tricky.

 

[Roxas]

I met a happy LECOM student. Personal anecdotes are tricky.

Touche. That's why I said "risk"

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Touche. That's why I said "risk"

Ohh gosh are we gonna start doing cost benefit analysis now?

To be fair the person I met was a resident(alumni) not a student

 

[Roxas]

Ohh gosh are we gonna start doing cost benefit analysis now?

To be fair the person I met was a resident(alumni) not a student

Lol bro this doesn't have to become a dick measuring contest. Guy comes to forum seeking opinions. I provide my opinion (however wrong it may be). You're more than welcome to disagree and move on.

 

[Dr. Hopeful]

Thanks so much for the responses guys, you have seriously been a huge help. I think reading U of M's list of osteopathic schools that they would consider student applications for and KCUMB being on that list really helped sell me on KCUMB. Still not a final decision, because I truly love LECOM as well, but you guys really did help. Thanks for all the responses, seriously, you guys helped me make this major decision in my life way more than any of my friends/family has helped thus far haha!

 

[hallowmann]

This is a tough one. EM is all about SLOEs. Whichever school will give you the most flexibility with rotations might be worth the difference in money. LECOM has a pretty rigid schedule. You get 2 electives third year and like 4 plus a ton of selectives fourth year, but what schedule you get for rotations is kind of a lottery. I have no idea what KCUMB is like in that regard, but its worth looking into.

As far as the U Mich thing and wanting to practice in MI, KCUMB is closer and obviously you have a shot rotating at U. Mich. 4th year, so it might be marginally better opportunity-wise at KCUMB. Whether that's worth the extra $80k + interest and distance from home is really a personal choice for you.

In the end both are good schools, and you'll likely have good opportunities at both. Remember also that many people change their minds on what they want to do multiple times during med school.

 

[AlteredScale]

Are there DO grads who have landed residency at UMich?

 

[DaddyBex28]

Are there DO grads who have landed residency at UMich?

Yes, I am currently employed by the University of Michigan Hospital and Health Systems and I know a handful of DOs doing their residencies here.

 

[AlteredScale]

Yes, I am currently employed by the University of Michigan Hospital and Health Systems and I know a handful of DOs doing their residencies here.

Awesome! This is really exciting, thank you!

 

[Dr. Hopeful]

Yes, I am currently employed by the University of Michigan Hospital and Health Systems and I know a handful of DOs doing their residencies here.

That is incredibly exciting. So I would guess your advice is to attend KCUMB then? Working through U of M hospital would be a dream come true...

 

[DaddyBex28]

That is incredibly exciting. So I would guess your advice is to attend KCUMB then? Working through U of M hospital would be a dream come true...

If Emergency Medicine is your calling, then KCUMB would be your best bet between those two options.

However, I urge you to not disregard MSUCOM if you are accepted. Your chances of an EM residency in MI will probably increase by ten-fold if you are accepted there.

FYI: In 2013, less than four people from KCUMB who matched EM were in MI hospitals. Out of their total 17 EM matches.
In 2014, only 2 people from LECOM-Erie who matched EM were in an MI hospital. Out of their total 29 EM matches.
In 2013, only 3 from MSUCOM who matched EM were OUTSIDE of an MI hospital. Out of their total 27 EM matches.

So between the two, KCUMB and LECOM-Erie, you are (statistically) more likely to get what/where you want following graduation.

 

[Dr. Hopeful]

If Emergency Medicine is your calling, then KCUMB would be your best bet between those two options.

However, I urge you to not disregard MSUCOM if you are accepted. Your chances of an EM residency in MI will probably increase by ten-fold if you are accepted there.

FYI: In 2013, less than four people from KCUMB who matched EM were in MI hospitals. Out of their total 17 EM matches.
In 2014, only 2 people from LECOM-Erie who matched EM were in an MI hospital. Out of their total 29 EM matches.
In 2013, only 3 from MSUCOM who matched EM were OUTSIDE of an MI hospital. Out of their total 27 EM matches.

So between the two, KCUMB and LECOM-Erie, you are (statistically) more likely to get what/where you want following graduation.

If Emergency Medicine is your calling, then KCUMB would be your best bet between those two options.

However, I urge you to not disregard MSUCOM if you are accepted. Your chances of an EM residency in MI will probably increase by ten-fold if you are accepted there.

FYI: In 2013, less than four people from KCUMB who matched EM were in MI hospitals. Out of their total 17 EM matches.
In 2014, only 2 people from LECOM-Erie who matched EM were in an MI hospital. Out of their total 29 EM matches.
In 2013, only 3 from MSUCOM who matched EM were OUTSIDE of an MI hospital. Out of their total 27 EM matches.

So between the two, KCUMB and LECOM-Erie, you are (statistically) more likely to get what/where you want following graduation.

Now, does that really tell the complete story? I'm sure most people would not choose to match into MI residency from KCUMB, since it is a school with a ton of diversity. So all of those matches into EM are from students all around the country, I would imagine no more than 10% of the class will be from MI, and only ~10% of these students would choose EM, leaving ~2-4 students going back to MI to practice EM. At MSUCOM, nearly all of the students are going to be from MI and will likely want to stay in MI to practice. Maybe I am just being hopeful, I don't know for sure, but I don't think those statistics tell the complete story. To be honest, MSUCOM is most likely my #1 school, but I'm not sure I have the MCAT score to get into MSUCOM, sadly. They are kind of a "stats obsessed" school from what I have been reading on SDN (not sure if that's true or not, just what I have read). If I'm wrong with these assumptions, please correct me because I want to keep my expectations realistic.

 

[DaddyBex28]

Now, does that really tell the complete story? I'm sure most people would not choose to match into MI residency from KCUMB, since it is a school with a ton of diversity. So all of those matches into EM are from students all around the country, I would imagine no more than 10% of the class will be from MI, and only ~10% of these students would choose EM, leaving ~2-4 students going back to MI to practice EM. At MSUCOM, nearly all of the students are going to be from MI and will likely want to stay in MI to practice. Maybe I am just being hopeful, I don't know for sure, but I don't think those statistics tell the complete story. To be honest, MSUCOM is most likely my #1 school, but I'm not sure I have the MCAT score to get into MSUCOM, sadly. They are kind of a "stats obsessed" school from what I have been reading on SDN (not sure if that's true or not, just what I have read). If I'm wrong with these assumptions, please correct me because I want to keep my expectations realistic.

I don't think you are entirely wrong and you make some valid points/concerns. It's always better to be realistic in this sense rather than overly optimistic.

However, I know several people who have been accepted over the last few years and/or currently attend MSUCOM . While MSUCOM's MCAT stats have gradually creeped up...they do accept some people with low MCATs. One friend of mine was accepted with a 23 MCAT. I know some others with 24-26. It just depends case by case. They do very much care about extracurriculars though, with an emphasis on volunteering and they tend to appreciate research experience as well.

If you are a well-rounded applicant, you may very well have a decent chance.

If it does come down to the decision between KCUMB and LECOM-Erie, I think you have an idea from the stats I provided above (ignoring the MSUCOM addition).

Sidebar, I also know someone who was just placed into an MI residency who graduated from KCUMB this past year. They loved KCUMB and are happy to be in MI now.