Lesbian-friendly programs

[duneclimber]

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I will be applying to residency programs in the fall and wondered if anyone had experiences at locations that seemed particularly liberal and gay friendly (aside from San Fran). Also wondered what people's experiences had been in terms of being out on applications.

 

[LADoc00]

I will be applying to residency programs in the fall and wondered if anyone had experiences at locations that seemed particularly liberal and gay friendly (aside from San Fran). Also wondered what people's experiences had been in terms of being out on applications.

Are we talking lipstick or butch?

 

[whopper]

There are 2 homosexual residents in my program (Psychiatry-UMDNJ Camden at Cooper Hospital) who are "out" and as far as I know they have not had any problems concerning this.

I'd like to believe that at least all if not most programs will find homosexuality a non issue amongst their potential candidates.

One of the residents brought his boyfriend to a department party. It was a total non issue. Everyone was cool with both of them. Only thing for me and this was perhaps somewhat ignorant on my part was I thought to myself "hey I didn't know he was gay" for about 2 minutes, then life was back to normal.

 

[fiatslug]

There are 2 homosexual residents in my program (Psychiatry-UMDNJ Camden at Cooper Hospital) who are "out" and as far as I know they have not had any problems concerning this.

I'd like to believe that at least all if not most programs will find homosexuality a non issue amongst their potential candidates.

One of the residents brought his boyfriend to a department. It was a total non issue. Everyone was cool with both of them. Only thing for me and this was perhaps somewhat ignorant on my part was I thought to myself "hey I didn't know he was gay" for about 2 minutes, then life was back to normal.

We have several out residents & attendings here in San Francisco. As you might expect, no one here bats an eyelash.

 

[sopsyched]

Cambridge Health in Boston. Great program, good reputation, happy residents. Several out residents and a very gay-friendly PD (who is too, incidentally).

We have several out residents & attendings here at CPMC... in San Francisco. As you might expect, no one here bats an eyelash.

 

[Doc Samson]

Don't think you could go wrong with any of the Boston programs. Even based on my own peripheral knowledge of most of them, they all have multiple gay/lesbian attendings and residents.

 

[MDhasbeen]

i don't know the details of their program, but one of the "out" residents at ohsu told me portland, oregon is a very gay-friendly city. good this fall!

 

[clowden]

University of Michigan is good in that regard. When I was working there as a surgical tech the university president made a note of sending out a campus wide e-mail during the 04 election that UM will continue to provide benefits to partners of same sex unions. I worked with people who were out and hadn't experienced any problems either. Beyond that Ann Arbor is a very liberal place.

 

[Triathlon]

Are there any programs that do not outright embrace homosexuallity? I am not a hater just a moral guy that finds it offensive, that is all. enjoy the fire I have started!

 

[Psyclops]

Trizzle, did you make it to happy hour tonight or something?

 

[Doc Samson]

Are there any programs that do not outright embrace homosexuallity? I am not a hater just a moral guy that finds it offensive, that is all. enjoy the fire I have started!

You're kidding, right? If not, you are absolutely in the wrong field.

 

[Triathlon]

Trizzle, did you make it to happy hour tonight or something?

I know, I know it was a somewhat inflammatory posting day for me. I just felt like saying something to see if my stance on a topic would get the respect and tolerance that the opposition demands.

 

[50960]

Tri, "we speak your name!!!" If you are not a Howard Stern fan you may not get this.....

 

[sasevan]

I will be applying to residency programs in the fall and wondered if anyone had experiences at locations that seemed particularly liberal and gay friendly (aside from San Fran). Also wondered what people's experiences had been in terms of being out on applications.

I finished my psychology residency at University of Miami/Jackson Memorial Hospital in 2004 and found it to be accepting of sexual minorities. There were several gay psychiatrists and psychologists attendings as well as residents, interns, and students. The Association of Gay and Lesbian Psychiatrists had their annual meeting in Miami that year.
Ultimately, I believe (hope?) that all psychiatry residency programs will be sensitive and supportive of GLBT issues; in line with the American Psychiatric Association's position.
http://www.aglp.org/index.html

 

[sasevan]

I know, I know it was a somewhat inflammatory posting day for me. I just felt like saying something to see if my stance on a topic would get the respect and tolerance that the opposition demands.

I have no problem respecting and tolerating different points of view but I have to admit that I do find it difficult respecting inflammatory posts such as: "as a moral person I find homosexuality offensive."
Are you trying to correlate being moral with opposition to gay and lesbian rights? If you are, I'd be interested in knowing how you formed your opinion (e.g., is it based on religious fundamentalism?) and how you intend to practice medicine (especially psychiatry) with sexual minorities (i.e., are you aware of and intend to adhere to practice guidelines?).

 

[sasevan]

You're kidding, right? If not, you are absolutely in the wrong field.

👍
Thanks DS for stating the obvious. I think that he's a medical student and not yet in the field of psychiatry and hopefully will change his views once he gets to residency.

 

[res-2007]

Isn't the most important consideration that you receive a "good" education, both clinically & theoretically.
If you don't plan on indulging in sexual activity, of any kind, while performing your duties as a resident, then what difference does it make if a program is lesbian or gay friendly??

 

[Triathlon]

I appreciate everyone's comments in response to mine. I did phrase it outside of my actual thoughts. I did this intentionally to probe for reaction and to get a true feel for your thoughts and feelings regarding the point of view I portrayed. the "moral guy homosexuality offensive" line was hard for me to right because of its obvious self righteous tone. But, honestly there is some truth to the statement, let me explain.
I do have a strong religious background and am driven by my belief system. That system does not accept the practice of homosexuality, but at the same time it teaches love for all people despite their choices. As far as gay rights are concerned; I believe every human should have the same rights as the next within the accepted governing society. If a person feels strongly about public nudity and wants to go to the shopping center naked, that falls outside of their "rights". Why? some people find it offensive and therefore society has rejected the practice. Is it hateful? What's wrong with being naked? Who are they hurting? Its how they feel inside, its who they are, etc. etc. In some people's eyes an open display of their homosexuality is similar, they find it offensive. Why? That is where the debate begins and ultimately ends (either you accept it as a natural way of living or you don't) arguing won't really change things.
So if somebody does not want to be exposed to the openness of this practice, why should they be faulted?
As far as my personal acceptence of it, that should have no affect on my ability to practice psychiatry whatsoever. I will treat these patients as any other. I don't agree with stealing, will I not treat a kleptomaniac? Of course I will. I don't agree with the liberal democratic perspective, does that mean I can't treat their depression or bipolar DOs? No. Will I think less of a person? No. It can be done. And because I disagree with your belief system and am even offended by the idea of what you stand for, I will still care about you and I will still do my best to help you.

 

[Doc Samson]

I appreciate everyone's comments in response to mine. I did phrase it outside of my actual thoughts. I did this intentionally to probe for reaction and to get a true feel for your thoughts and feelings regarding the point of view I portrayed. the "moral guy homosexuality offensive" line was hard for me to right because of its obvious self righteous tone. But, honestly there is some truth to the statement, let me explain.
I do have a strong religious background and am driven by my belief system. That system does not accept the practice of homosexuality, but at the same time it teaches love for all people despite their choices. As far as gay rights are concerned; I believe every human should have the same rights as the next within the accepted governing society. If a person feels strongly about public nudity and wants to go to the shopping center naked, that falls outside of their "rights". Why? some people find it offensive and therefore society has rejected the practice. Is it hateful? What's wrong with being naked? Who are they hurting? Its how they feel inside, its who they are, etc. etc. In some people's eyes an open display of their homosexuality is similar, they find it offensive. Why? That is where the debate begins and ultimately ends (either you accept it as a natural way of living or you don't) arguing won't really change things.
So if somebody does not want to be exposed to the openness of this practice, why should they be faulted?
As far as my personal acceptence of it, that should have no affect on my ability to practice psychiatry whatsoever. I will treat these patients as any other. I don't agree with stealing, will I not treat a kleptomaniac? Of course I will. I don't agree with the liberal democratic perspective, does that mean I can't treat their depression or bipolar DOs? No. Will I think less of a person? No. It can be done. And because I disagree with your belief system and am even offended by the idea of what you stand for, I will still care about you and I will still do my best to help you.

Poor analogy. A better one would be if someone told you that they liked to walk outside naked, at a nudist colony perhaps. Gays and Lesbians are probably not putting on a live sex show in front of your house. If you find just knowing that someone is gay offensive, then I don't see a whole lot of "love" in your position.

 

[Triathlon]

Poor analogy. A better one would be if someone told you that they liked to walk outside naked, at a nudist colony perhaps. Gays and Lesbians are probably not putting on a live sex show in front of your house. If you find just knowing that someone is gay offensive, then I don't see a whole lot of "love" in your position.

You are missing my point, and I am not going to keep trying because, frankly I don't care. A man see what he wants to see and disregards the rest.

 

[Doc Samson]

You are missing my point, and I am not going to keep trying because, frankly I don't care. A man see what he wants to see and disregards the rest.

...and for anyone that's worried, Triathlon just announced on the PM&R thread that he's given up on psychiatry and is applying to PM&R residencies.

 

[Triathlon]

...and for anyone that's worried, Triathlon just announced on the PM&R thread that he's given up on psychiatry and is applying to PM&R residencies.

And on this forum too, in another thread. So have your party.
Sorry if I caused any undue stress, but I can guarantee I would make a great psychiatrist compared to most.

 

[sasevan]

Isn't the most important consideration that you receive a "good" education, both clinically & theoretically.
If you don't plan on indulging in sexual activity, of any kind, while performing your duties as a resident, then what difference does it make if a program is lesbian or gay friendly??

Do you think it would matter to someone who is Hispanic or African-American or Jewish if a program is or isn't hostile to ethnic, racial, and/or religious minorities?

 

[Poety]

Wow what the hell happened around here!


Personally I think sexuality shouldn't be part of ANY equation in professionalism, but if you're looking for a gay friendly environment to meet people, then thats a different story, the bigger cities will be more accomodating than small community or rural programs - but either way, it shouldn't matter what your orientation is at all (at least to the programs)

and tri I just have to argue that I don't think being gay is a "choice" not ONE of my friends said they would "choose to be gay" and they struggled extensively with the ramifications of it. Its NOT an easy life to live despite what people think.

My AA friends have also mentioned to me the difficulties of being black in america, its not so easy until you've walked a mile in someone elses shoes...racism and homophobia is still very much alive - its not worth making judgements on anyone for who they love or what color they are since in reality, you're not going to change it.

Good luck in PM&R, perhaps you'll come back at some later point in your training! 🙂

 

[Triathlon]

Wow what the hell happened around here!


Personally I think sexuality shouldn't be part of ANY equation in professionalism, but if you're looking for a gay friendly environment to meet people, then thats a different story, the bigger cities will be more accomodating than small community or rural programs - but either way, it shouldn't matter what your orientation is at all (at least to the programs)

and tri I just have to argue that I don't think being gay is a "choice" not ONE of my friends said they would "choose to be gay" and they struggled extensively with the ramifications of it. Its NOT an easy life to live despite what people think.

My AA friends have also mentioned to me the difficulties of being black in america, its not so easy until you've walked a mile in someone elses shoes...racism and homophobia is still very much alive - its not worth making judgements on anyone for who they love or what color they are since in reality, you're not going to change it.

Good luck in PM&R, perhaps you'll come back at some later point in your training! 🙂

Thanks Poety, Just as a final note on this topic, I am not a homophobic and I don't discriminate. I understand it is not always a choice and there is a real battle within some (I have friends that are gay). As far as my comments are concerned, I wanted to test the water and I did. My points were taken wrongly but I understand why. The main debate in America is either hate or embrace. I do not "EMBRACE" homosexuality, but I am far from hate. Do you see what I am saying? I am a notch below. I don't think that was understood. I don't want it paraded in front of my face. I do not want to necessarily affiliate myself with an organization that is pro-gay. I would rather remain neutral to protect my beliefs. That is hard to understand in the face of the usual paradigms. For example, I would vote against gay marriage. So I don't want my name on a company list that is campagning for gay marriage. That is pretty much the extent of it.
Later.

 

[Psyclops]

I would have to agree with res-2007. I don't think that this is the type of criterion that should weigh heavily on a professional decision (ideally). I'm sitting in the villiage (NYC) right now, watching the preparations for the gay pride parade. Although I'm impressed by how far things have come, I can't help but think that a certain amount of trying to band together actually hurts the overall goal of trying to be seamelss ly included in society. Maybe that isn't the goal? I don't know, that would be my goal, but when I see "gay neighborhoods" I can't help but think, that's nice for them but it must hurt the inclussion factor. I think heterogenous comuniites would be ideal. But, everyone likes to live around their own I guess...

 

[Antigone]

I agree, as mentioned above, that many of the programs in New York, Boston, and San Francisco seem to be liberal and gay-friendly. As a side note, one of the reasons why I am glad to be in psychiatry is that its tolerance for diversity of all kinds is probably among the highest in the medical fields.

Re: making a professional decision, I think it is important that people feel comfortable being themselves and do not feel judged daily by colleagues due to their sexuality, ethnicity, religion, disability, or whatever else makes them a minority. Also, although it is true that many minorities would like seamless inclusion (with full acceptance) ideally, moral support from people who are either in similar situations or who are tolerant is important when discrimination and hostility are so prevalent. Unfortunately for LGBT people, society is a long way from full acceptance.

duneclimber, I PM'ed you.

 

[Poety]

Tri, I see your points and honestly, one can only respect that you have your beliefs and choose to respect others in the same way. If you don't choose to affiliate with a pro gay community, that is well within your right. And if thats what you feel keeps you morally balanced between your work and religion, then thats even better. I agree, it shouldn't be either embrace or hate, there is a balance - and how you vote is your own decision, not anyone elses.

Great responses above btw psy and anti!

 

[Doc Samson]

And on this forum too, in another thread. So have your party.
Sorry if I caused any undue stress, but I can guarantee I would make a great psychiatrist compared to most.

To forestall criticism that your opinion might attract, you couch it in: 1) religious belief, and 2) respectful disagreement (i.e. if you respect my right to an opinion, I should respect yours, otherwise I'm rude and hypocritical).

Now, let's do a little philosophical experiment here, by applying the same dynamic to a different situation. I imagine if SDN had existed 50 years ago, there might be a lot of opinions on race in medicine. Let's pick interracial relationships as a more specific example. I would bet that back then there were lots of folks who objected to interracial relationships on "moral" grounds. I've even seen examples of folks using their religious beliefs as why they felt so strongly about, quoting scripture to support their view.

Now, were they "entitled" to their point of view? If it came up now, would we all sit here and nod sagely, saying "well, I'm for it, and their against it, but I couldn't possibly be offended by them because they're entitled to say that they find a black man dating a white woman morally and spiritually offensive without any repercussion from me." I, for one, would not. People "offended" by equal rights for gays and lesbians (and that would include being able to openly have a relationship), will be judged by history in the same way as the people who objected to the civil rights movement.

 

[fiatslug]

People "offended" by equal rights for gays and lesbians (and that would include being able to openly have a relationship), will be judged by history in the same way as the people who objected to the civil rights movement.

👍 👍 👍
True dat. The Bible ain't just Leviticus, kids.

 

[res-2007]

Doc Samson you wrote in part: I imagine if SDN had existed 50 years ago, there might be a lot of opinions on race in medicine.

You don't have to strain your imagination on that point! What do you think was the impetus to the establishment of Howard, Meharry, Morehouse and those schools that today are designated "traditionally black schools of medicine". Those school were established because Blacks could not be educated any other place and they continued well into the 1950's, along with other liberal arts universities, to produce the majority of Black doctors, lawyers and Teachers for the Black community.

I believe that all people are free to live as they choose, as long as it does not limit the right of others, that includes blacks, gays and any group of people you can think of.

However, once that's said, I find it ironic and annoying that the "gay struggle" is so often equated to the struggle of blacks in this country for equality.

Do you know of anyone in this country that has ever been refused the right to vote because they are gay?
Or denied the right to education because they are gay?
Gay rights, yes, it's your right as a human being!
Just stop with the comparisons to the black civil right fight. OK? It DOES NOT COMPARE!

 

[LADoc00]

Doc Samson you wrote in part: I imagine if SDN had existed 50 years ago, there might be a lot of opinions on race in medicine.

You don't have to strain your imagination on that point! What do you think was the impetus to the establishment of Howard, Meharry, Morehouse and those schools that today are designated "traditionally black schools of medicine". Those school were established because Blacks could not be educated any other place and they continued well into the 1950's, along with other liberal arts universities, to produce the majority of Black doctors, lawyers and Teachers for the Black community.

I believe that all people are free to live as they choose, as long as it does not limit the right of others, that includes blacks, gays and any group of people you can think of.

However, once that's said, I find it ironic and annoying that the "gay struggle" is so often equated to the struggle of blacks in this country for equality.

Do you know of anyone in this country that has ever been refused the right to vote because they are gay?
Or denied the right to education because they are gay?
Gay rights, yes, it's your right as a human being!
Just stop with the comparisons to the black civil right fight. OK? It DOES NOT COMPARE!

Hold it, are you saying there wont be all gay educational institutions in the near future?!

Why is there so much gaytalk in the pysch forum??? Im somehow constantly drawn here and away from path...stop please.

 

[Psyclops]

Anyone care to comment on why LAdoc00 is always "drawn" to the gay talk?

res-2007, those are some interesting comments at the end there.... You might have a point in not equating them quantitatively, but I would say they are the same qualitatively. By this I mean, more might have been done to harm black people than gays over the years due to that one salient characteristic, but in the end it is discrimination based on a characteristic that shouldn't enter in the equation of someone's worth. I don't see how you can differentiate there.

I don't think we should get into a pisisng contest to see who has had it worst over the years, blacks or gays. Nevertheless, I can't help but point out that plenty of gays have been killed for thier sexual orientation. Some might even go so far as to say that having your life taken is worse than being denied education or voting rights.

 

[Doc Samson]

Anyone care to comment on why LAdoc00 is always "drawn" to the gay talk?

res-2007, those are some interesting comments at the end there.... You might have a point in not equating them quantitatively, but I would say they are the same qualitatively. By this I mean, more might have been done to harm black people than gays over the years due to that one salient characteristic, but in the end it is discrimination based on a characteristic that shouldn't enter in the equation of someone's worth. I don't see how you can differentiate there.

I don't think we should get into a pisisng contest to see who has had it worst over the years, blacks or gays. Nevertheless, I can't help but point out that plenty of gays have been killed for thier sexual orientation. Some might even go so far as to say that having your life taken is worse than being denied education or voting rights.

Amen to avoiding a pissing contest. Gays weren't denied the right to vote like with African-Americans, but no-one has tried to systematically wipe African-Americans from the face of the earth like with Jews, and on and on and on. Discrimination is wrong no matter who it's happening to. I chose to pull in the civil rights analogy because it was an all too recent example of people using religion and morality to justify flat out bigotry which (hopefully) people would disagree with - not trying to say they're the same in anyway other than that. The dynamic remains the same though the target has changed, the "moral offense" expressed against homosexuality provides fertile ground for and a tacit endorsement of more blatant and virulent gaybashing.

 

[Psyclops]

Doc S forgot to mention, it's just plain stupid too.

 

[Triathlon]

I will point out one of the main stumbling blocks to the "Gay-Rights" movement.
The Gay Parade.Photos
I mean come on, have some class. If you are going to have a demonstration to attempt to convince people you should be accepted, wear some clothes! 🙄
It looks like a ***** show. And frankly it is "OFFENSIVE"!

 

[res-2007]

Psyclops how true : Some might even go so far as to say that having your life taken is worse than being denied education or voting rights.

The same applies to the thousands that have be hung, shot and flogged to death.

No pissing contest on my part.

I'm Black, Female and gay.
I could write a book on discrimination and it would all be about the color of my skin.

 

[50960]

I get you,and you are really the majority of America. We are very tolerant, but reject AA, and group mentality measures as opposed to basic human rights. Blacks, gays, indians etc are all equal humans, and equal rights are important. As Peter Tosh said " there can be no peace w/o equal rights and JUSTICE"You willmake a good doc..........

 

[duneclimber]

Did NOT intend for this conversation to become so righteous in tone...it truly was just a simple question (or couple of questions). Re Res-07, it is true that gay people were not as a group denied the right to vote, but I am at an institution where a psychiatrist declared that a patient's true psychiatric problem was that she was a "lesbian" on the consult service (this year). I have a classmate who bursts out laughing anytime a professor mentions homosexuality. A psychiatry resident this year told a group of us at a psychiatry dinner that he was convinced that his best friend was gay only because he was molested as a child and that he was surprised (for this reason) that more people were not gay.

FYI in response to the comment about attempts to wipe out Jews historically, the same dictator tried to wipe out gays (WWII concentration camps were where the pink triangle symbol was first applied to gay people).

Currently in the US ethnic minority spouses may not be denied health/partner benefits. Racial slurs are largely not tolerated. Heterosexual partners are not denied access to their hospitalized spouses. A straight couple can adopt a child in any state and both be on the child's birth certificate. Affirmative action rarely includes "sexual orientation minorities."

It is true that I will most definitely not be having sex in front of PDs or residents on the interview trail. And yes, I do want a good education and training. BUT while being gay is not the ONLY part of who I am, it is A part. I am too old and stubborn to be anything less than real and myself. Or to waste my time applying to schools where I will have to hide that part of me (again, I do not have an "L" tattoed on my forehead, but it would be nice to be able to bring my partner to social functions in the department without it traumatizing others or negatively affecting my evaluations).

Thank you for the multiple PMs from others. Unlike the propensity that people have for taking "devil's advocate" stances and inspiring debate, I really am just trying to get an idea of cities and/or programs that I might not have otherwise considered that are LGBT-friendly.

 

[Doc Samson]

Thank you for the multiple PMs from others. Unlike the propensity that people have for taking "devil's advocate" stances and inspiring debate, I really am just trying to get an idea of cities and/or programs that I might not have otherwise considered that are LGBT-friendly.

Again, you can't go wrong in Boston.

 

[no-see-um]

stick to the major cities. Technically none should give you any problems about that as it would seem to be discriminatory.

And how on earth did 'jews' get pulled into the mix? I guess the Holocaust will always be used as the main historical example of how far exclusion and hatred can go.

Since we're all looking to make moral statements today- perhaps Darfur should trump all examples as the timely example of a persecution where the world could utilize all that it learned from the Holocaust to actually stop a genocide rather than just talk about the past and say 'never again' as a punchline.

 

[PathOne]

Discrimination on any grounds (other than incompetence) has no place in a professional workplace. But then again, neither does sexuality. As far as I'm concerned, people can be gay, straight, bi or into any and all assorted fetisches and paraphenalia, as long as they keep it away from the workplace. Same thing applies to religious beliefs, btw.

Now, obviously, gay couples should feel welcome to bring their significant others to work-related parties etc. where partners are invited. However, I don't really want to hear about my co-workers sexual activities, be they straight, bi or gay. Neither do I want to be subject to unwanted religious discussions at work. Unfortunately, I have experienced both.

 

[no-see-um]

I agree. The workplace is about work. Things like religion, sexuality, etc - even politics! are personal and truly don't need to be topics of discussion at work. If the original poster doesn't go in flaunting her sexuality and if someone said something, that would be totally disdainful and wrong.

It's hard to judge programs based on a fear of not being acceptable to them on a personal level. To have such a fear at this point in the process would only cause you to lose opportunities. In the same way that the original poster doesn't want to be judged, so too are these programs worthy of further research into what they have to offer. In the end, it comes down to regular old interpersonal relations and what you have to offer professionally.

Most of the time you can figure out where you can fit in. A program doesn't have to tell you that. Granted, there is always the chance (probably a miniscule one) of not being personally 'acceptable' to a program- but who would want to go to such a place!?

I've worked with all types of people, and all I care about is how well they do their job. I tune out to all those things like race and religion. I just finished a job and I can't even identify where everyone was from when I look back on it. I truly didn't care.

 

[Poety]

Discrimination on any grounds (other than incompetence) has no place in a professional workplace. But then again, neither does sexuality. As far as I'm concerned, people can be gay, straight, bi or into any and all assorted fetisches and paraphenalia, as long as they keep it away from the workplace. Same thing applies to religious beliefs, btw.

Now, obviously, gay couples should feel welcome to bring their significant others to work-related parties etc. where partners are invited. However, I don't really want to hear about my co-workers sexual activities, be they straight, bi or gay. Neither do I want to be subject to unwanted religious discussions at work. Unfortunately, I have experienced both.

👍 You pretty much echoed my sentiments above - 👍 🙂