Less demanding orthopedics residency programs

[GonefromTX]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Ok so first, I am not trying to slack off by wanting the "easy way out". I'm just trying to strike a balance between mental health, family and doing what I love most which is medicine.

My cousin is in a general surgery program that is beyond insane: their work weeks are pretty much always >100 hours, sometimes even over 120 hours from what he told me. Although I love ortho and surgery in general, I don't think I'll realistically be able to go through 5 years of that without a serious mental breakdown.

I hope its not too offensive to ask, could you guys list a few surgical (preferably ortho) programs in the country that are not too trauma-centered and adhere more strictly to the 80 hour limit? I don't mind working like crazy whenever at work, I just need predictability and time outside work to handle personal affairs.

Also, is it easy to apply to out-of-state residencies? Doesn't seem like there were many out-of-state matches from my school (UT Houston) although that might be personal preference?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Psai]

Why not talk to your home program

 

[masaraksh]

Residency in a field that has basically taken over acute fracture care will surely not be trauma-heavy

 

[tiedyeddog]

Unless you're a mega superstar you likely will not be able to lock down any specific program as an ortho applicant. You have to be OK matching programs that work you harder just because you never know where you'll end up due to how competitive the field is.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[giantswing]

Ok so first, I am not trying to slack off by wanting the "easy way out". I'm just trying to strike a balance between mental health, family and doing what I love most which is medicine.

My cousin is in a general surgery program that is beyond insane: their work weeks are pretty much always >100 hours, sometimes even over 120 hours from what he told me. Although I love ortho and surgery in general, I don't think I'll realistically be able to go through 5 years of that without a serious mental breakdown.

I hope its not too offensive to ask, could you guys list a few surgical (preferably ortho) programs in the country that are not too trauma-centered and adhere more strictly to the 80 hour limit? I don't mind working like crazy whenever at work, I just need predictability and time outside work to handle personal affairs.

Also, is it easy to apply to out-of-state residencies? Doesn't seem like there were many out-of-state matches from my school (UT Houston) although that might be personal preference?

Thanks in advance.

Technically, we're all capped at 80, but most go over, and don't be the lone dissenter.

ETA: also, if you like medicine, ortho isn't for you.

 

[giantswing]

Residency in a field that has basically taken over acute fracture care will surely not be trauma-heavy

Nah...

 

[Slack3r]

Ok so first, I am not trying to slack off by wanting the "easy way out". I'm just trying to strike a balance between mental health, family and doing what I love most which is medicine.

My cousin is in a general surgery program that is beyond insane: their work weeks are pretty much always >100 hours, sometimes even over 120 hours from what he told me. Although I love ortho and surgery in general, I don't think I'll realistically be able to go through 5 years of that without a serious mental breakdown.

I hope its not too offensive to ask, could you guys list a few surgical (preferably ortho) programs in the country that are not too trauma-centered and adhere more strictly to the 80 hour limit? I don't mind working like crazy whenever at work, I just need predictability and time outside work to handle personal affairs.

Also, is it easy to apply to out-of-state residencies? Doesn't seem like there were many out-of-state matches from my school (UT Houston) although that might be personal preference?

Thanks in advance.

Any program that is weaker in trauma will likely have more controllable hours than a trauma heavy program. That said, the othro program at my hospital is notoriously weak on trauma, yet they still get worked to the bone (hehe). It's a surgical residency, it'll be pretty tough everywhere.

 

[Merely]

No, if you don't want to work hard pick a different field...

 

[GonefromTX]

No, if you don't want to work hard pick a different field...

I already said that's not the case. Please go be annoying somewhere else

 

[0ncogene]

I don think your thread will be well received here. No residents would want you to apply to their program if you're more worried about your "personal affairs", so no residents are going to divulge this information even if there is a place that adheres to the 80hrs rule. There are plenty of competitive ortho applicants out there without the baggage.

During my away ortho rotations, I worked well over 80hrs and so do the residents at all five different programs I rotated at. So in short, the answer is NO. Be expected to work over 80 until the job is done for the night.

 

[npappasan]

Merely brings up a good point though. You can't just dismiss their opinion. If you're on call every other day, you're missing half the cases. Volume is a big part of what gets you good clinically and technically. If you skate through an ortho residency, you're not going to be that good in the real world, where no one is there to potentially bail you out. That leads to more complications and adverse outcomes. May I ask where you stand in your class? Grades? Board scores? Historically, only the top gunner students would even have a chance at an ortho spot and no gunner would even remotely ask a question like this. My point being: are you even being realistic about this whole ortho thing?

 

[GonefromTX]

Merely brings up a good point though. You can't just dismiss their opinion. If you're on call every other day, you're missing half the cases. Volume is a big part of what gets you good clinically and technically. If you skate through an ortho residency, you're not going to be that good in the real world, where no one is there to potentially bail you out. That leads to more complications and adverse outcomes. May I ask where you stand in your class? Grades? Board scores? Historically, only the top gunner students would even have a chance at an ortho spot and no gunner would even remotely ask a question like this. My point being: are you even being realistic about this whole ortho thing?

Perhaps I could have phrased my question a little better. All I'm wondering is if I could potentially avoid a program like my cousin's where they average a 120 hr/week and have almost no predictability. I am not trying to skate through an ortho residency.

Personally I think I'm actually being realistic by asking these questions to find out if the predictability and hours of a program are something I can work with in addition to having a family and having time for basic societal functions like being able to go to the DPS or something. Theres only 168 hours in a week and with a 120-hour program theres only 48 hours/wk left for sleeping, eating, driving to work, taking a dump etc.

Not complaining or criticizing, just trying to be realistic as you said

 

[mimelim]

It is unrealistic to target a single program or even several programs unless you are an applicant that is clearly completely committed to that field, which you are not. Are there cushier GS and ortho programs out there? Absolutely. Do you really want to train at one? No. To be a good surgeon, you need 2 things. #1 You need pathology, ie. you need patients with disease for you to treat. #2 You need good mentorship. You can't have high volume pathology without working a lot of hours. Does that mean that practices with residencies are efficient? No. Does that mean they can't cut down on scut and hire more midlevels etc? No. But, the reality is that it is expensive and anywhere that invests extra in their residents education by doing those things are going to be the programs that also expect a lot out of their residents.

Personally, I don't think you need to work 80+ hours/week to be a good surgeon. But, the way that our training paradigm is setup, you would be hard pressed to find a good program, never mind a great program where that isn't the norm. Thus, my recommendation is if lifestyle is a major concern: find a different specialty. The hours can be limited and I'm sure that some actually follow the 80 hour work week. But, you are not going to get a predictable schedule for years.

 

[bannie22]

I didnt know ortho worked hard...

 

[Polonium-210]

Can one make a career out of ortho trauma? I don't really care for sports medicine or arthroscopic procedures. Ortho trauma has the best trauma in my opinion. Would you have to remain in an academic program or could you function in the community as majority ortho trauma procedures (>80% cases ortho trauma)?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Can one make a career out of ortho trauma? I don't really care for sports medicine or arthroscopic procedures. Ortho trauma has the best trauma in my opinion. Would you have to remain in an academic program or could you function in the community as majority ortho trauma procedures (>80% cases ortho trauma)?

It would be tough unless you can convince a hospital to employ you as a hospitalist ortho type doctor.

 

[Manual Disimpaction]

I saw ortho residents that came in at 3:30 am and left around 8 pm every damn day. F*ck that ****.

 

[npappasan]

Ortho trauma is a common subspecialty at most large trauma centers nationwide. It is an accredited ortho sub-specialty fellowship. The answer to your question is a very unequivocal and resounding yes.

 

[Neopolymath]

Can one make a career out of ortho trauma? I don't really care for sports medicine or arthroscopic procedures. Ortho trauma has the best trauma in my opinion. Would you have to remain in an academic program or could you function in the community as majority ortho trauma procedures (>80% cases ortho trauma)?

.