Less interested in research than when I started...

[treckingon]

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So, I started grad school with all this enthusiasm, but now I feel depleted of motivation and energy. I just finished my firs year. i used to want to contribute to the field on the level of research, but now it just looks like those who have careers in research seem miserable, and I am sick of running data analyzes and worrying about publications. My program doesn't seem to be a great fit for me either -- they seem very black-and-white about their theoretical orientation. I'm finding that I wish I were in a more flexible environment and wanting to learn more broadly than I am. I want out, but at the same time, I know I want to be a psychologist and work with clients, and I don't know if I'd want to start from scratch somewhere else. So, the only way out seems to be to just go through it. Can anyone relate to this situation? Has anyone started at a research program only to find that maybe they really just want to be clinicians? What do I do? Any suggestions for good coping strategies?

 

[erg923]

NO EASY ANSWER. I feel the same way though. The scientist part is neccessary IMHO, but I just feel like 90 percent of the research that Ive done hasn't, (or wont) amount to a hill of beans in the larger scope of things. Often times feel like all this stuff is only impotant to us, and If didnt do it, the world be would be the same. Didnt Paul Meehl cite something in one of his articles to the effect of "90% of all research in the sciences makes negligible impact"? Yet, I have to bust my ass to do something that makes neglible impact and that nobody (outside this profession) gives hoot about? Its a tough feeling to get over. I have felt this way for about a year now.

Its kinda like joining a club and then realizing the club isnt all its cracked up to be. Moreover, learning that research is just as much about "putting something out there" vs "finding the truth" makes me jadded and distrustful of alot of articles that I read. I think all the different factor analytic rotation methods (ie.,verimax, equimax, etc) tha are in such wide use that can basically force and manipulate data into a "cleaner fit" is a great example of this. I recently did a factor analysis of a well known scale, and to be honest, we could have done it 5 or 6 different ways (by chosing various rotations) and come to 5 or 6 different conclusions based on the same data set. Im sure all of them are right to some extent, but I found the process exhausting and wholy unsatisfying. Just felt like we were forcing and manipulating data so we could make the "biggest impact" to the editors/reviewers and "milk" the most papers from it. These are quotes from my mentor by the way......

 

[aagman01]

I concur with the dilemmas you both are experiencing.

The more I get involved in research, the more I am finding that it is so often BS. Furthermore, the amount of work often makes me miserable. I am in a research orientated program, and will definately be completing my doctorate at my present program. For me, it is not worthwhile to change programs. However, I have cut back big time on research (currently involved in only one project).

I do plan to continue to work towards competency in research. However, I will fulfill all requirements and move on to either an applied position or teach at a less intense college/university (i.e. research II university). I no longer plan to have an intensive, research focused career.

Sometimes you just have to admit to others (i.e. advisor) what your interests and goals are and just move forward. Effective research can often require a narrow and rigid purview, which is not always for everyone (in my opinion 🙂 Telling your advisor and others you work with can be difficult.........but it can be done! And your not alone!

NO EASY ANSWER. I feel the same way though. The scientist part is neccessary IMHO, but I just feel like 90 percent of the research that Ive done hasn't, (or wont) amount to a hill of beans in the larger scope of things. Often times feel like all this stuff is only impotant to us, and If didnt do it, the world be would be the same. Didnt Paul Meehl cite something in one of his articles to the effect of "90% of all research in the sciences makes negligible impact"? Yet, I have to bust my ass to do something that makes neglible impact and that nobody (outside this profession) gives hoot about? Its a tough feeling to get over. I have felt this way for about a year now.

Its kinda like joining a club and then realizing the club isnt all its cracked up to be. Moreover, learning that research is just as much about "putting something out there" vs "finding the truth" makes me jadded and distrustful of alot of articles that I read. I think all the different factor analytic rotation methods (ie.,verimax, equimax, etc) tha are in such wide use that can basically force and manipulate data into a "cleaner fit" is a great example of this. I recently did a factor analysis of a well known scale, and to be honest, we could have done it 5 or 6 different ways (by chosing various rotations) and come to 5 or 6 different conclusions based on the same data set. Im sure all of them are right to some extent, but I found the process exhausting and wholy unsatisfying. Just felt like we were forcing and manipulating data so we could make the "biggest impact" to the editors/reviewers and "milk" the most papers from it. These are quotes from my mentor by the way......

 

[Ollie123]

Though I personally don't feel the same, I know what you mean and I'm sorry to hear it. I think the saving grace for me is that I'm interested in research not for the grand, altruistic purpose of having a substantial impact on the field and changing lives, but for a much narrower and more selfish reason - I find it fun. Having an impact is a great bonus, don't get me wrong, but designing experiments and digging through the findings is just plain fun for me.

Would it be possible for you to shift your research interests, maybe switch advisors and see if that changes how you feel? I don't know what kind of work you are doing, but the nice thing about research is that your options are almost limitless.

If you do more basic science work now, maybe shifting towards treatment work might be more your thing - that way you can still see clients, develop new treatments, etc. Or even shifting to a more applied route...this is thinking way down the road, but I've always wanted to shift into the "Science of science" domain. Study the holes in the scientific process. Or for that matter, if you're worried it isn't making an impact - study WHY it isn't making an impact, and how it can be better disseminated. I'm actually taking a course in this very subject in the fall...namely, how to translate basic science into applied science, and how to make sure applied science gets out into the world.

Anyways, I'm not trying to sell you on a research career, just some suggestions for things that might be worth trying before ruling it out entirely. I absolutely agree there is a lot of stuff that won't make a difference in the world. Science is incredibly incremental and I will probably produce more "Who cares" than most since I"m so much on the basic science end of things. I also agree with erg that depending on how you do (or don't do) certain analyses, you can often drastically alter the findings to whatever suits you. Part of me blames the journals for this since self-preservation leads people to seek p < .05 rather than the truth.

 

[erg923]

I am kinda curious about the "black and white theoretical orientation" thing you mentioned, as I have never considered this to be a potential problem/issue. At least in my program (and many others), with the exception of the university counseling, the department faculty arent very involved in clinical training. Hence, they have little influence over (nor do they really care about) my theoretical orientation. I know some programs ram the importance of EVT down your throat and frown on dynamic work and conceptualizations, but fortunately, my program is not one of them. My advisor/mentor informally inquires about how my practicum experience is going (i.e., am i happy with everything?....am I getting enough hours? etc), but thats the extent of it really.

 

[Rivi]

I am the say way treckingon. The research side of things is not very interesting to me, honestly, and is more of a fall back. I really just want to be a clinician. The research world is best for people, like Ollie, who actually enjoy doing it. I like generating ideas and potentially finding things out, but for the most part, research doesn't do it for me at all.

 

[treckingon]

My advisor is one of the people that do the practicum training, and she does outcome treatment research, so she had very strong opinions about what's "the right way" to do treatment. When I came here, I thought having an advisor who was so involved in treatment would be great, because I thought I could learn from her. But, alas, that is not the case. She is very narrow minded and isn't a great teacher. She is a young faculty member, but the other faculty seem to share her narrow point of view regarding theoretical orientation. I guess I just think that there are too many manuals and protocols and names of therapy, and that sticking so much to your own theory sometimes ends up hurting the patients or at least not helping them. Sometimes you have to just be open and try to really understand what works for treatment, verses what's going to give you the bigest name and the most publicaitons. Unfortunately, that's not how the world works I guess...

I am kinda curious about the "black and white theoretical orientation" thing you mentioned, as I have never considered this to be a potential problem/issue. At least in my program (and many others), with the exception of the university counseling, the department faculty arent very involved in clinical training. Hence, they have little influence over (nor do they really care about) my theoretical orientation. I know some programs ram the importance of EVT down your throat and frown on dynamic work and conceptualizations, but fortunately, my program is not one of them. My advisor/mentor informally inquires about how my practicum experience is going (i.e., am i happy with everything?....am I getting enough hours? etc), but thats the extent of it really.

 

[treckingon]

Thanks for your support. What year are you in Rivi? I still have a ways to go. I get nervous that when I get to the end of my internship/postdoc and really decide to just go clinical, my advisor and other faculty will frown upon it. I guess I have to tell myself not to worry about it, but it's hard to do that. It's hard to feel like I hate where I am but not think ahead too much either. grrr. I feel like I worked so hard to get here, and now I hate it. I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't had psychology. I know I really want to be a psychologist. I just hate the grad school process and hate feeling like I have to pretend to agree with all these opinions I don't agree with and pretent to like doing all this work that I am hating. It's sad, cause I actually used to like research. It just looks like such an aweful world now. I'm tired of trying to publish publish publish...

 

[erg923]

Thats is very good point and very true for me as well. I like research in the sense that I have a million ideas always bubbling in my head and i love to test them out. I have not observed the dark side of reseach really, as all my profesors are nice and pleasant, and overall great people. However, the more you get into it, the more you realize all the layers that have to be considered before you put something out and how alot of it tweeking of the data in order to get the biggest bang from it, so to speak. I just dont have the drive or tolerance for any of that. I had a prac supervisor last year who was in his 60s and had one publication during his career. When I inquired about this, he said that he has over a dozen "small projects" over the years and just never bothered to publish them. "I just wanted to see what the outcome was," he said. Most of the time, he just said "oh...cool" once he got the results, and that was that. No alternative motives and no hassles. I thought that was kinda cool.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I really enjoy research, but it can be exhausting (especially when writing the umpteenth draft of a grant app / articles), and finding non-significant results after pouring a lot of time and energy into a study is rather deflating.

On the theoretical orientation topic, I know a grad student who is particularly wielded to a specific theoretical sub-orientation and openly admits to relaying on it with almost all her clients, largely because it meshes well with her personal and spiritual beliefs and experiences. Though I don't doubt she's an ethical, intelligent clinician (based on what I know of her as a friend and researcher [she researches tx methods/outcomes]), I could see this type of thing becoming a "when you only have a hammer" issue.

 

[Ollie123]

I've said it here before, but I'm convinced theoretical orientations are the devil. What do you think internships would think if I described my orientation as "Science" when it comes time to apply? I think all this adherence to one school of thought, whatever it might be, is absurd and just shuts people off to new ideas and encourages the ignoring of evidence.

 

[treckingon]

I agree!!

i've said it here before, but i'm convinced theoretical orientations are the devil. What do you think internships would think if i described my orientation as "science" when it comes time to apply? I think all this adherence to one school of thought, whatever it might be, is absurd and just shuts people off to new ideas and encourages the ignoring of evidence.

 

[ClinicalTrainee]

My advisor is one of the people that do the practicum training, and she does outcome treatment research, so she had very strong opinions about what's "the right way" to do treatment. When I came here, I thought having an advisor who was so involved in treatment would be great, because I thought I could learn from her. But, alas, that is not the case. She is very narrow minded and isn't a great teacher. She is a young faculty member, but the other faculty seem to share her narrow point of view regarding theoretical orientation. I guess I just think that there are too many manuals and protocols and names of therapy, and that sticking so much to your own theory sometimes ends up hurting the patients or at least not helping them. Sometimes you have to just be open and try to really understand what works for treatment, verses what's going to give you the bigest name and the most publicaitons. Unfortunately, that's not how the world works I guess...

Have you started doing clinical work yet? I've found that there is quite a bit of variability among clinical supervisors, even in programs (like mine) where one orientation is touted as the 'right' way. Plus, some programs (does yours?) offer/encourage outside practica where you can get different perspectives.

I had a clinical supervisor who sounds eerily like your adviser (in all aspects, actually). The thing is, when you're in a room with a client, YOU are in the room with the client, not the supervisor. Yes, it's probably bad form to go completely off track, but my personal philosophy (which is far more client-centered than the hardcore CBT this supervisor wanted) is to put the needs of the client first. I took a lot of flak for it in supervision with this particular supervisor, but eh. It meant more to me to stick up for my own perspective than just take hers--when I just don't agree with this "one right way" mindset. Other supervisors haven't batted an eyelash at my wanting to use an interpersonal perspective or bring in DBT skills or something when I can justify it based on the conceptualization.

My suggestion is to talk to older students in your program, especially ones doing bigger (more hours) practica, and/or people doing off-site practica. There are plenty of people I know who want to do clinical work and not research, and the faculty (even ones at heavy research programs, like my own) know that not everyone will follow an academic path.

There are probably more kindred spirts around than you think. Talk to people, don't isolate yourself, as that is bound to make you feel more different and less happy with your program.