Let's get it started in here!

[sweatybrain]

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It's already August. The old derm board would have had 10 threads on "highest step 1 score" or x-program vs. y-program.

I'll start and stir the pot: despite the conventional wisdom, I will be applying to 25-30 programs max, focusing mostly on academic places. If you can apply to only 30 programs, which ones would you choose?

 

[dermhopefully]

Not sure where I would apply, but I'm going for probably around 60-75 programs just to be safe.

 

[kralwok]

still trying to decide how many programs to apply to. am reapplying, so i keep thinking that beggars can't be choosers, but at the same time my husband needs to be able to get a job where we move. applied to about 90 programs last time, and it was almost completely random where i got interviews!

 

[Dermguy]

It's already August. The old derm board would have had 10 threads on "highest step 1 score" or x-program vs. y-program.

I'll start and stir the pot: despite the conventional wisdom, I will be applying to 25-30 programs max, focusing mostly on academic places. If you can apply to only 30 programs, which ones would you choose?

I would seriously reconsider your idea of "25-30 programs max." There is very little potential upside to applying to this many programs and a HUGE potential downside. I am aoa, top 20 med school, 262, had lots of research/pubs, good letters from famous people who knew me very well was told by several faculty that I needed to apply to only very few programs. (One faculty member said, "[Dermguy], derm is competitive so even with your outstanding application I think you should still consider applying to a lot of places--like 20 maybe.) I ended up applying to 70 and had only 12 interview offers.

Some people get lucky and get away with your idea. One good buddy applied to 30 places and got 20 interviews. He was a similar applicant. If you insist on your approach, I wish you the best of luck, but don't count your chickens before they're hatched. There are many more that "25-30" good academic programs in the country, and it would SUCK to not match when you could have done it right the first time around.

 

[moinmoin]

Yeah, I'm currently working on research for a year with a really great mentor. I told him I was planning on applying to probably every program, save some that would be a waste of money. He told me that I was crazy and should only apply to the programs I was really interested in. Well, I'm interested in all of them....especially since I'm not AOA, not a bunch of clinical honors, and have board scores of 241 & 243. I don't know if some faculty realize how competitive it really is to even get interviews. I would think you need something up your sleeve like a PhD or the ability to place thoughts in peoples' heads to only apply to 25 programs.

 

[asmallchild]

I applied quite broadly, if I remember correctly, >100 programs, >$3000

My final destination? My home program. Still, well worth the dough. 🙂

 

[sweatybrain]

Thank you for all the discussion.

I think the bottom line - for me, cannot speak for anyone else- is that although there are more than 25-30 great programs, there are not more than 30 or so programs that I would be happy at. In addition to research, I'd love to end up somewhere relatively urban that has a thriving music and art scenes, since I'm heavily involved in those fields. My "stats" are more or less similar to Derm guy, though I have both a PhD and the ability to place thoughts in people's head.

I concur that the downside is there, but sometimes you've just got to take a little risk in life.

 

[sore eye asses]

I have a different perspective: All you guys/gals with step 1 > 260, top 20 medschool, with PhD, and multiple pubs, go ahead and apply to only 20-30 programs, preferentially not the ones I'm applying to. This'll leave some scraps for us mere mortals who scored a measley 250 on step 1, only have 2-3 pubs, and are not a member of a top 20 school.

 

[sweatybrain]

I don't think you should sell yourself short. In last year's matchlist and interview invite, it didn't seem like there was a heavy school bias. (I'm only going on gestalt; I have no data to back this up.) There is - straight from one PD's mouth - a little regional bias. I'm not sure how one could go about overcoming that outside of writing different PS for each region you are applying to.

p.s. I also don't have 3000 dollars for the ERAS, esp after paying that ridiculous step II fee.

 

[sensitive skin]

I concur that the downside is there, but sometimes you've just got to take a little risk in life.

The risk is applying dermatology itself...why increase the risk by applying to only 30 places? That's like riding a motorcycle on the freeway without a helmet.

Bottom line: you *never* know with dermatology. Ever. But it sounds like you're a super fabulous candidate, so perhaps I'll see you in the big city. 😎

 

[asmallchild]

Thank you for all the discussion.

I think the bottom line - for me, cannot speak for anyone else- is that although there are more than 25-30 great programs, there are not more than 30 or so programs that I would be happy at. In addition to research, I'd love to end up somewhere relatively urban that has a thriving music and art scenes, since I'm heavily involved in those fields. My "stats" are more or less similar to Derm guy, though I have both a PhD and the ability to place thoughts in people's head.

I concur that the downside is there, but sometimes you've just got to take a little risk in life.

To be fair, I could've just applied to the programs where I thought I would get interviews (i.e. locally) and probably would've ended up exactly where I am today with an additional $3000 in my pocket.

I just wasn't comfortable with that level of risk. Of course, I was also not the caliber of applicant that you were.

 

[sweatybrain]

Trust me, I'm not THAT great. I just don't mind taking more chances than others.

That said, what are some good little-known programs? I didn't read SDN that much last year, but it sounds like people uniformly loved Iowa. Any other suggestions?

 

[Doublecortin]

Yeah, I'm currently working on research for a year with a really great mentor. I told him I was planning on applying to probably every program, save some that would be a waste of money. He told me that I was crazy and should only apply to the programs I was really interested in. Well, I'm interested in all of them....especially since I'm not AOA, not a bunch of clinical honors, and have board scores of 241 & 243. I don't know if some faculty realize how competitive it really is to even get interviews. I would think you need something up your sleeve like a PhD or the ability to place thoughts in peoples' heads to only apply to 25 programs.

I agree, most faculty who are not directly involved in the selection process can be quite ignorant

 

[asmallchild]

Trust me, I'm not THAT great. I just don't mind taking more chances than others.

That said, what are some good little-known programs? I didn't read SDN that much last year, but it sounds like people uniformly loved Iowa. Any other suggestions?

I dunno if Iowa can be considered a little-known program. They've been very popular for a while now.

 

[moinmoin]

I have both a PhD and the ability to place thoughts in people's head.

Ha ha, you're golden.

 

[SkinNerd]

No matter how confident you are, there's always the chance that you could slip through the cracks. I applied to 80+ programs, and had seemingly random interviews aside from my home program and one away. Interviewed all over the country, at high, mid- and low-tier programs. Was feeling good with 10 programs on my list, but didn't match. You can bet I regretted not applying to ALL programs. I was a solid applicant, although just barely missed out on AOA and no PhD. Still no idea what happened.

This time, I'm applying to ALL programs. Sure it's a lot of money and time spent, but believe me, you don't want to have regrets on match day.

Good luck everyone!

p.s. no matter if you're at a top 20 program or a 'little-known' program, you'll still be a dermatologist when all is said and done. Unless you have goals for being an academic dermatologist (which probably only 10% of you will be, although 60% will claim that career goal at interview time)..... you don't need to be at a top 20 program.

 

[Doublecortin]

No matter how confident you are, there's always the chance that you could slip through the cracks. I applied to 80+ programs, and had seemingly random interviews aside from my home program and one away. Interviewed all over the country, at high, mid- and low-tier programs. Was feeling good with 10 programs on my list, but didn't match. You can bet I regretted not applying to ALL programs. I was a solid applicant, although just barely missed out on AOA and no PhD. Still no idea what happened.

This time, I'm applying to ALL programs. Sure it's a lot of money and time spent, but believe me, you don't want to have regrets on match day.

Good luck everyone!

p.s. no matter if you're at a top 20 program or a 'little-known' program, you'll still be a dermatologist when all is said and done. Unless you have goals for being an academic dermatologist (which probably only 10% of you will be, although 60% will claim that career goal at interview time)..... you don't need to be at a top 20 program.

, really, it's 100%, there are actually applicants who are honest about their career goals?

 

[kralwok]

No matter how confident you are, there's always the chance that you could slip through the cracks. I applied to 80+ programs, and had seemingly random interviews aside from my home program and one away. Interviewed all over the country, at high, mid- and low-tier programs. Was feeling good with 10 programs on my list, but didn't match. You can bet I regretted not applying to ALL programs. I was a solid applicant, although just barely missed out on AOA and no PhD. Still no idea what happened.

SkinNerd, I have a similar story but 9 interviews. Just missed AOA, random interviews all over the country some fantastic some mediocre programs plus my home program and an away rotation program, did not match. Thought I was a solid applicant but knew there was no guarantee. Actually did not rank one program on my list (was couples matching and corresponding program was a terrible match for my spouse), and I will always wonder what if b/c I really liked that program (though the location was not ideal). Hope everything goes well for you this time around.

 

[Long Dong]

The forum is dead cause all the med students rotating at my program are to busy writing papers, in that scramble to get things submitted before apps go out.😀

 

[SkinNerd]

Kralwok -

Did you reapply and succeed in matching, or are you reapplying this season? Would love to pick your brain.

 

[Dermguy]

the ability to place thoughts in people's head.

If you ever start marketing that Jedi mind trick, just let me know because I'll be the first to sign up. You will likely match and match very well. Good luck with the whole process.

 

[Renova]

I don't think you should sell yourself short. In last year's matchlist and interview invite, it didn't seem like there was a heavy school bias.

Unfortunately, I think there actually is a pretty significant school bias. According to the 2009 Charting Outcomes, 49% of US seniors who matched in derm were from NIH top 40 schools. That's higher than ENT (40%), ortho (37%), and rads (36%), and slightly lower than plastics (51%) and neurosurgery (50%).

Overall, NIH top 40 graduates account for ~35% of US seniors.

 

[sweatybrain]

skinnerd/kralwok,

Sorry to hear you didn't match. Are you planning to reapply? I was talking about this with my friend the other day. Outside of taking a year off to do research after intern year how do you improve on your application in the 3 months that you were an intern before the ERAS is due?

 

[dermhopefully]

Can you link the top 40 NIH schools thing please? (The list of them I mean, not the match stats)

 

[kralwok]

skinnerd, i wish i had reapplied and matched! i applied in 06/07 and am reapplying this year.

sweatybrain, i took a couple of years off, so i had 1yr 3mo to improve my application (though unfortunately my research has hardly gotten off the ground in that time due to it being difficult to get approval for things as a non med-student, non-resident). would have liked to have done a formal fellowship but there aren't any where i live. i had a baby and am enjoying life while trying to do research, probably not the typical gung ho gunner attitude i need to match but am trying again anyway because i love derm. only time will tell what happens...
one thing you can try to do is match to a prelim/transitional program that will allow you to do derm research for a couple of months. i did this as well as a clinical elective in derm.

long dong, i think you were in my husband's med school class. hi 🙂

 

[Long Dong]

long dong, i think you were in my husband's med school class. hi 🙂

Tell the pinoy I said wassup yo.

 

[Renova]

Can you link the top 40 NIH schools thing please? (The list of them I mean, not the match stats)

In 2008, the NIH top 40 were:

1 JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE
2 UNIV OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO SCH OF MED
3 UNIV OF PENNSYLVANIA SCH OF MEDICINE
4 WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE
5 YALE UNIV SCHOOL OF MED
6 DUKE UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE
7 UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN MEDICAL SCHOOL
8 UNIV OF PITTSBURGH SCH OF MEDICINE
9 UNIV OF CALIFORNIA LOS ANGELES
10 UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON SCH OF MEDICINE
11 VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE
12 UNIV OF CALIFORNIA SAN DIEGO
13 STANFORD UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE
14 UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA SCH OF MED
15 COLUMBIA UNIV COL OF PHYSICIANS & SURGEONS
16 BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE
17 EMORY UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE
18 UNIV OF CHICAGO PRITZKER SCH OF MEDICINE
19 MOUNT SINAI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE OF NYU
20 MAYO CLINIC COLL MED
21 HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL
22 UNIV OF COLORADO HLTH SCI CTR SCH OF MED
23 UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS SW MED CTR/DALLAS
24 UNIV OF ROCHESTER SCH MED & DENT
25 UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA SCH OF MEDICINE
26 CASE WESTERN RESERVE UNIV SCH OF MED
27 NORTHWESTERN UNIV SCH OF MEDICINE
28 OREGON HLTH SCIS UNIV SCH OF MEDICINE
29 UNIV OF MINNESOTA MINNEAPOLIS MED SCH
30 UNIVERSITY OF IOWA COLLEGE OF MEDICINE
31 UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA SCH OF MEDICINE
32 ALBERT EINSTEIN COL OF MED YESHIVA UNIV
33 UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND SCH OF MEDICINE
34 NEW YORK UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE
35 UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN MEDICAL SCHOOL
36 UNIV OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA SCH OF MED
37 UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS MEDICAL SCH
38 CORNELL UNIVERSITY MEDICAL COLLEGE
39 INDIANA UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE
40 BOSTON UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE

 

[EastTo]

We should get more threads going about topics/programs like I know nothing about the Midwest/West Coast places. Not sure why our board is so quiet compared to the rest.