LGTB NEWS: Situation Unfolding at Touro Univ. College of Osteopathic Medicine, CA

[bth7]

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Members don't see this ad.

There's a dramatic story unfolding at Touro College of Medicine in California at the moment. The university has inexplicably barred the Gay/Lesbian and Bisexual students from meeting as a group on campus.

Here's some links to important info:

Wikipedia Article on TUGSA

www.tugsa.net

Here are two numbers to call to voice your opinion on this matter:


TUCOM SGA: (707) 567-4121
Dean of Students: (707) 638-5294 email: [email protected]

These are public, Touro University numbers for TUCOM classes 2007-2010. Anyone who has a question about where the SGA stands on this matter - refer them to these numbers. Also, you can just call the number and leave a message or make a comment about your position on the TUGSA matter. (Keep it friendly please.)

Bryan Hopping, MS II
Touro University Gay-Straight Alliance
__________________
Human Salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." Dr. MLK, Jr.
TUCOM - MI Class of 2009 Track my progress

 

[VPDcurt]

It is an independent Jewish school, and they therefore have every right to choose where they spend their funds. You need to be willing to tolerate their viewpoints as well. From their perspective, why would they fund a group that goes completely against their value system? It doesn't make any sense. The school is still allowing the group to meet...they are just not funding it themselves. There really is no controversy here. You chose to attend that school and therefore indirectly stated that you were willing to live in accord with their rules. No one forced you to go there. You cannot go to an institution voluntarily and try to change their belief system just because you don't buy into it.

 

[OMMFan]

It is an independent Jewish school, and they therefore have every right to choose where they spend their funds. You need to be willing to tolerate their viewpoints as well. From their perspective, why would they fund a group that goes completely against their value system? It doesn't make any sense. The school is still allowing the group to meet...they are just not funding it themselves. There really is no controversy here. You chose to attend that school and therefore indirectly stated that you were willing to live in accord with their rules. No one forced you to go there. You cannot go to an institution voluntarily and try to change their belief system just because you don't buy into it.

I am curious about the nuances of your opinion. What if Touro's belief system included intolerance of women or ethnic minorities? Would Touro have the right to pull funding for clubs like National Osteopathic Women Physicians Association (NOWPA) or the Student National Medical Association (SNMA)? (Copied from snma.org: "The Student National Medical Association is the nation's oldest and largest independent, student-run organization focused on the needs and concerns of medical students of color.")

If Touro has a right to spend (or not spend) its funds as it chooses, Touro could theoretically pull funding for clubs like NOWPA or the SNMA.
Even if they have the right to selectively pull funding, would it be right for them to do so? Where do you draw the line at what intolerance is acceptable?

I hope that TUGSA is protected under anti-discrimination laws. Touro University accepted that it would be held to those laws and standards when it became a University, just as private employers accept that Equal Opportunity laws must supercede any personal beliefs when hiring employees.

 

[SOUNDMAN]

If it's a private university though, I don't think they would be required to spend their dollars on the club, correct me if I'm wrong. The university receives no state funding, therefore just like any other "religious" university can choose to govern themselves according to their belief systems. They aren't saying the club can not meet, just not share their name or be funded by the university. If it is private institution, I think it would be very difficult to prove what they have done is wrong or inconsistent with other private institutions. Where would we draw the line with this? Can churches be made to provide funding for LGBT groups if they don't hold those beliefs, but a few do?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I think it's interesting that they continue to fund a Christian students club but won't fund this club. Both theoretically go against their status as a Jewish school. Anyway, it sounds like what they're doing is illegal in California, something they should have researched before they removed funding.

 

[ggmk]

Schools support student groups not only for educational purposes but so that students can support themsevles socially and mentally. Yes the school invests in resources, but in return they get healthier and happier students. That's what any school would want of its students... right?

Does Touro also train future physicians to withhold their therapeutic resources if the patients happen to have different value or belief systems as they do?

 

[sasevan]

There's a dramatic story unfolding at Touro College of Medicine in California unfolding at the moment. The university has inexplicable barred the Gay/Lesbian and Bisexual students from meeting as a group on campus.

Here's some links to important info:

Vallejo Times-Herald

Wikipedia Article on TUGSA

www.tugsa.net

Here's the number to call to voice your opinion on this matter:

These are the two numbers to call:

TUCOM SGA: (707) 567-4121 email: [email protected]
Dean of Students: (707) 638-5294 email: [email protected][/email[/SIZE][/B]

These are public, Touro University numbers for TUCOM classes 2007-2010. Anyone who has a question about where the SGA stands on this matter - refer them to these numbers. Also, you can just call the number and leave a message or make a comment about your position on the TUGSA matter. (Keep it friendly please.)

Bryan Hopping, MS II
Touro University Gay-Straight Alliance
__________________
Human Salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." Dr. MLK, Jr.
TUCOM - MI Class of 2009 Track my progress[/QUOTE]


Hi,
Thanks for sharing the info and doing something about this injustice.
While I can certainly respect the right of a private school that receives no public funding (is this the case with TUCOM?) not allocating reources to fund a student group that advocates beliefs that are contrary to that institution's principles, I do think that this development needs to be denounced by as many people as possible for a number of reasons:
1. TUCOM is a religious affiliated university but it is also a medical school and as such it should adhere to the anti-discriminatory policies of medicine.
2. TUCOM must be affiliated with some ultra-orthodox Jewish group. In my experience, Judaism is one of the more tolerant religions on gay issues. It would be unfortunate if TUCOM's actions end up misrepresenting Jews, the majority of which are conservative and reformed, not orthodox.
3. TUCOM is being unfair and disingenuous in removing support from this student group for the stated reasons since it is continuing to support other groups that could arguably be said to also hold beliefs contrary to their institutional principles, e.g, the Christian group.

Anyway, I feel for you and other progressive students at TUCOM and especially any sexual minority students there. It must be very demoralizing to be in a school (or an alumni of one) that is basically saying that some people are not good enough and its alright to discriminate against them.

I'm currently applying to med school and decided not to apply to NY Medical College because of their position on GLBT student groups. I did apply to TUCOM but will be withdrawing if this policy stands.

Good luck to you all and try contacting the alumni association if you can; also a civil rights lawyer to assess whether TUCOM really is excempt, under CA law, from state statues against discrimination.

Peace.

P.S. NYMC eventually changed their anti-GLBT club position; hopefully TUCOM will too. Keep the faith.
P.P.S. I will be calling TUCOM!😡

 

[Nate]

I remember a stink last year from New York Medical College refusing to allow a gay club on campus, and their reason was also that they are a religious (Christian) school. I think that if the school is private then they are allowed to do this. Of course, the way the Supreme Court has been shifted to conservative Christian morale lately you would likely loose if it ended there albeit it is clear discrimination in my eyes and pathetic.

 

[cfdavid]

It is an independent Jewish school, and they therefore have every right to choose where they spend their funds. You need to be willing to tolerate their viewpoints as well. From their perspective, why would they fund a group that goes completely against their value system? It doesn't make any sense. The school is still allowing the group to meet...they are just not funding it themselves. There really is no controversy here. You chose to attend that school and therefore indirectly stated that you were willing to live in accord with their rules. No one forced you to go there. You cannot go to an institution voluntarily and try to change their belief system just because you don't buy into it.

Well put.

Also, while I acknowledge that awareness is very important, the whole idea of an organized group based on sexual orientation seems a bit unnessesary to me.

 

[medhacker]

First allow me to share in with your discontent, I personally can understand it.

Nonetheless, the issue has been long "resolved", in my opinion, by the supreme court in Boy scouts of America v. Dale

This falls under the freedom of association which the courts have consistently understood to be protected by the first ammendment.

The government's interest in combatting discrimination based on sexual orientation does not outweigh the value of freedom of association.

TOURO is a private institution and as such has the right to decide where to allocate its funds according to its core beliefs.

I am glad you may still continue your activities, albeit, without their support, but no one can deny you the right to congregate.


MH

P.S. I do not see a great incongruity with a Jewish based school providing financial support to a christian club. The Christian religion has a "huge" judaic base and origin. While there are some differences between the two religions, there are more aspects that unite them than divide them. In fact, both have co-acted in many cases pleading for freedom of religious exercise before the courts.

 

[JonnyG]

In the end the supreme court said the boy scouts could exclude gays because they are a private organization. TUCOM is allowed to do the same. Whether you like it or not. They also arent breaking any law by choosing to support the other groups.

Personally i think it should be all or none, but i also feel strongly about letting people and groups have their views. I just can ignore them..........americas great that way

 

[sasevan]

Also, while I acknowledge that awareness is very important, the whole idea of an organized group based on sexual orientation seems a bit unnessesary to me.

Minority groups organize to provide support for their members; you don't think that with the discrimination that GLBT people experience it would be necessary to organize groups, to provide support for one another?

The Straight, Gay, and Bi student alliance was presumably providing such a safe environment for its members and from that base being able to educate their fellow med students on some of the special health concerns that sexual minorities encounter, e.g., HIV/AIDS and other STDs or the special difficulties that gay couples face in the medical system when one of the partners is seriously ill and the other, due to the lack of marriage rights, is marginalized.

I don't see how such an organized group could not be necessary in medicine; just like other groups of people that suffer social stigmatization that negatively impacts their health and healthcare organizing is also necessary in medicine.

 

[VPDcurt]

I am curious about the nuances of your opinion. What if Touro's belief system included intolerance of women or ethnic minorities? Would Touro have the right to pull funding for clubs like National Osteopathic Women Physicians Association (NOWPA) or the Student National Medical Association (SNMA)? (Copied from snma.org: "The Student National Medical Association is the nation's oldest and largest independent, student-run organization focused on the needs and concerns of medical students of color.")

If Touro has a right to spend (or not spend) its funds as it chooses, Touro could theoretically pull funding for clubs like NOWPA or the SNMA.
Even if they have the right to selectively pull funding, would it be right for them to do so? Where do you draw the line at what intolerance is acceptable?

I hope that TUGSA is protected under anti-discrimination laws. Touro University accepted that it would be held to those laws and standards when it became a University, just as private employers accept that Equal Opportunity laws must supercede any personal beliefs when hiring employees.

It all depends on the situation, but a privately owned university can do whatever they please. If this were a public school or a public high school/middle school, I would agree with you completely. There are some things in society that aren't "fair" to all races or groups of people, but that is just the way it is and that's the way it always will be (see Augusta National with respect to female golfers - they are a private club and do not have to let women become members...is that fair to women? Maybe not, but that's the way the club wants it). The OP should not have attended this school if he does not believe in the values inherent in that institution...or if he is not willing to accept them as the way it has to be.

 

[ggmk]

Okay people stop using the law as a defense. Fine, it's legal, we get the point.

But the issue is not about the law here. It's about taking care of its students and just plain being nice.

It's interesting to see how some people choose to focus on the law and not the act of discrimination itself in their replies. If TOURO used spanking as punishment for students scoring low on an exam and someone posted a thread about it, would people like medhacker still only focus on "private school, they can do whatever they want" or would they actually talk about the act itself?

Also, someone try starting a medical club about anti-circumcision or even better, a buddhist club and see if they'd deny funding. Buddhism should have nothing to do with Judaism so people like Medhacker can't try to weakly justify TOURO's bigot double standards with "oh, but, Chrisitianty is related to Judaism" Well, yeah, Satan worshiping has a large basis in Christianity as well if you really want to look for connections.

 

[sasevan]

First allow me to share in with your discontent, I personally can understand it.

Nonetheless, the issue has been long "resolved", in my opinion, by the supreme court in Boy scouts of America v. Dale

This falls under the freedom of association which the courts have consistently understood to be protected by the first ammendment.

The government's interest in combatting discrimination based on sexual orientation does not outweigh the value of freedom of association.

TOURO is a private institution and as such has the right to decide where to allocate its funds according to its core beliefs.

I am glad you may still continue your activities, albeit, without their support, but no one can deny you the right to congregate.


MH

P.S. I do not see a great incongruity with a Jewish based school providing financial support to a christian club. The Christian religion has a "huge" judaic base and origin. While there are some differences between the two religions, there are more aspects that unite them than divide them. In fact, both have co-acted in many cases pleading for freedom of religious exercise before the courts.

Even if it can be shown that TUCOM is in fact not in violation of California law (we'll have to leave that to the Courts) the issue is one of discrimination and as such should be denounced. Legal is not the same as right; that is why laws are changed. I mean, at one point African-Americans, Jews, and Catholics were discriminated against. It was legal, but not right. Laws were changed but first people had to become outraged at the injustice. If the leaders of the civil rights movement were to have had the attitude, we'll its private education, private accomodation, private employer where would civil rights be?
Even if TUCOM has the legal authority to discriminate its exercise of that needs to be denounced by fair minded people.
NYMC ultimately reversed their similar policy after pressure; hopefully TUCOM will also.

P.S. To say that Christians and Jews have much in common is true but this is the same as to say that GLBTs and Christians and/or Jews have more similarities than differences. All are human beings and in each group there are as many differences between the members as there are between the groups themselves. But let's not forget that theologically there is a huge difference, i.e., the Christian belief that Jesus is God, and socially there have been huge differences, e.g., Crusades, Inquisition, pogroms.
P.P.S. TUCOM is identified with observant Judaism, akin to Fundamentalism. This is really not about Judaism and GLBT; Jews-for the most part conservative or reformed-are very, very tolerant. (Disclaimer: Catholic myself and believer in Jesus but with many Jewish friends).

 

[MWillie]

This is outrageous, I would discourage anyone from applying to tuoro or touro, whatever.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

One thing to note is that even private educational institutions receive significant government funding. For example, Touro probably would not be able to exist if their students did not receive federal financial aid. I haven't read the Boy Scouts case, but I don't think anybody else (especially non-lawyers) can argue its applicability here without a thorough reading of the whole case and of other related cases. In sum, don't buy legal analysis that you get on sdn or any web site for that matter.

 

[drusso]

I would encourage student leaders at Touro to contact their national student reps including SOMA, AMSA, COSGP & AACOM and get them involved in multi-lateral discussions:

http://www.cosgp.aacom.org/

http://www.studentdo.com/index.htm

http://www.amsa.org/about/students.cfm#pres

I would focus on AMSA first as their president this year, Jay Batt, is a D.O. student at PCOM and they have a VERY active GLB advocacy group. They also have professional staff and legal counsel who can assist you in this endeavor. Not to mention that you're in the Bay Area...your resources for action on this matter are innumerable.

Good luck

 

[Church]

While everyone is screaming about the "injustice"...

Did the school ban the group?
Prevent them from hanging posters on bulletin boards?
Tell them that they can't meet in school facilities?

No. They told them to find their own source of funding. They're pissed off because they got cut off from the trough. Freaking well collect dues like other organizations do, and maybe cut back on free pizza at meetings to save money.

Honestly, it ain't money (regardless of source) that will open minds and change values. Maybe someone needs to look at their priorities.

 

[bth7]

Hey all. Thank for the support. Keep those phone calls coming!

Here's a press release with latest info from GLMA. AMSA is currently working on their own statement. These are being released Monday AM to the national press. Thanks for all you support. (Read below.)

Subject: News Release: GLMA Decries Decision by Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine to Ban Gay Straight Alliance Student Group
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 15:49:37 -0700

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: September 9, 2006
GLMA DECRIES DECISION BY TOURO UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE TO
BAN GAY STRAIGHT ALLIANCE STUDENT GROUP
Pledges to seek relief for students of banned organization

SAN FRANCISCO - September 9, 2006 - The Gay and Lesbian Medical Association
today publicly decried the decision of the Touro University College of
Osteopathic Medicine, a private medical school in Vallejo, CA, to ban a
student group that focuses on the needs of lesbian, gay, bisexual and
transgender (LGBT) patients and students.

In 2002, students at the school formed the Touro University Gay-Straight
Alliance (TUGSA) with the mission of "promoting equitable health care
delivery through awareness and education, and . . . representing diversity
both on campus and in medicine." This month, Touro's administration, citing
the school's Orthodox Jewish heritage, suddenly revoked the group's charter
and rescinded its funding, which had already been approved.

"This situation is reminiscent of the decision of New York Medical College
to ban its LGBT student group in 2004 based on that school's Roman Catholic
heritage," GLMA's Executive Director, Joel Ginsberg, JD, MBA, stated.
"However, after long discussions, the NYMC administration recognized that
the LGBT community continues to be marginalized in healthcare and reinstated
the group. As a result of this situation, the American Medical Association
updated its policies to state that the AMA 'supports the right of medical
students and residents to form groups and meet on-site to further their
medical education or enhance patient care without regard to their gender,
gender identity, sexual orientation, race, religion, disability, ethnic
origin, national origin or age.'"

Bryan Hopping, a second-year medical student at Touro, said: "It's
disturbing how out of touch the Touro administration is, because the
students and faculty are overwhelmingly supportive of us. I've been really
touched by conservative students who have come up to me and said, 'this club
has made me aware of my own homophobia - thank you.'"

Hopping continued: "The LGBT community has a unique set of health issues
that young doctors-to-be need to know about, so that LGBT people get the
care they're entitled to, just like any other group."

The Healthy People 2010 Companion Document on LGBT Health, commissioned by
the US Department of Health and Human Services, documents a number of health
disparities experienced by LGBT persons as a result of their sexual
orientation or gender identity. According to Ginsberg, "many of these
disparities are associated with the fear or outright discrimination LGBT
persons experience when they reveal their sexual orientation or gender
identity to their healthcare providers."

"One of the major goals of our 25th anniversary conference to be held in San
Francisco October 11-14, 'Bringing LGBT Healthcare into the Mainstream,' is
to counter the false notion that LGBT health is an exotic area of health.
All physicians encounter LGBT patients in their practices and need to know
how to care for them as for all their patients.

"Modeling discriminatory attitudes in medical education perpetuates fear and
discrimination against LGBT people generally and undermines the health of
LGBT patients. We at GLMA hope that the administration at Touro University -
which states that its 'values involve a commitment to social justice,
intellectual pursuit, and service to humanity' - will discuss this very
serious issue with us. In the meantime, we continue to explore other ways of
raising awareness about this issue in the hopes that these students will
eventually get the learning environment they need and deserve."

-30-

For 25 years, the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association has worked to ensure
equality in health care for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender patients
and health professionals. For more information, call 415-255-4547 or visit
www.glma.org.

 

[sasevan]

While everyone is screaming about the "injustice"...

Did the school ban the group?
Prevent them from hanging posters on bulletin boards?
Tell them that they can't meet in school facilities?

No. They told them to find their own source of funding. They're pissed off because they got cut off from the trough. Freaking well collect dues like other organizations do, and maybe cut back on free pizza at meetings to save money.

Honestly, it ain't money (regardless of source) that will open minds and change values. Maybe someone needs to look at their priorities.

I don't think its the idea of not getting the money per se (I'm sure they could get alternative funding sources) is the reason why they're not getting the money. If TUCOM were cutting funding from all student groups then it wouldn't be an issue of discrimination; its that they are cutting funding (and official recognition) of the GLBT group while continuing to underwrite all other types of groups. If that isn't unfair then what is?

 

[sasevan]

Hey all. Thank for the support. Keep those phone calls coming!

Here's a press release with latest info from GLMA. AMSA is currently working on their own statement. These are being released Monday AM to the national press. Thanks for all you support. (Read below.)

Awesome article!!!

 

[Church]

Maybe it's just me. If someone wants to be that way (the school), them give them the finger and drive on. Who wants dirty money anyway?

 

[VPDcurt]

Maybe it's just me. If someone wants to be that way (the school), them give them the finger and drive on. Who wants dirty money anyway?

Arguing generates publicity and victimization - giving the finger and driving on results in silence.

 

[lama]

This thread is so ridiculous it's laughable. A private university has the right to allocate funds and dictate morality any way it chooses. It can discriminate (whether right or wrong) based on it's own codes of morality. There are no bi/gay/lesbian clubs at Notre Dame, Brigham Young or Albert Einstein and you don't hear anything about 'dramatic' stories evolving there. In fact, each of these three has honor codes specifically prohibiting any form of homosexuality. These are all private schools, they are able to dictate their own form of morality because they do not take federal funds. If tax payers aren't paying funds to TUCOM, the public has no right to demand it's morality on a private institution. If you don't like it... organize your own club off campus or go to school somewhere else.

I support TUCOM's decision, just like I would support any private gay or lesbian college's decision not to fund a christian/jewish/catholic club.

Get over it!

 

[Smackey]

Freedom of choice also means the freedom to choose discremination. Regardless of an anyones thoughts on the "morality" of that choice.

 

[iliacus]

I don't think its the idea of not getting the money per se (I'm sure they could get alternative funding sources) is the reason why they're not getting the money. If TUCOM were cutting funding from all student groups then it wouldn't be an issue of discrimination; its that they are cutting funding (and official recognition) of the GLBT group while continuing to underwrite all other types of groups. If that isn't unfair then what is?

The club isn't the issue here...What TUCOM is rejecting is homosexuality. Let's be honest here...if they decided to stop funding the Family Medicine club there wouldn't be an uproar. By rejecting the club the school is in essence rejecting homosexuality..and for homosexuals who attend the school that's hurtfull. But it's in TUCOM's right to do so and the best thing to do (in my opinion) is to obtain outside funding and let your presence be known on campus.

 

[bth7]

DrRusso

Do you have any contact info you could PM me?

I need actual names and phone numbers of people I can call.

Any reasource info you could give me of specific individuals that know what to do would be really helpful. Touro is a small school. TUGSA money has been taken away so we have very limited resources. Its been difficult just keeping our amature web page afloat.

Thanks 2 million.

I need your help.

Bryan

 

[oms1guy]

Yay for Touro!! I totally support touro's decision. THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED BY ANY MEANS TO GIVE THEIR OWN MONEY TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT STRICTLY DIS OBEY THEIR RULES!!

I am a student at Touro-Nevada and I entered the school knowing that I would have to obide by their jewish values. I am a christian but have no problem not eating pork with milk on campus. They are providing me with a great education so i live by their rules!!

ATTN all gay people: STOP STRUTTING AROUND ADVERTISING THAT YOU ARE GAY! do I walk around school all day saying that i'm straight? is there a straight club? NO...

-Proud student of Touro College systems not giving money to people who disrupt their values.

 

[Kuba]

Yay for Touro!! I totally support touro's decision. THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED BY ANY MEANS TO GIVE THEIR OWN MONEY TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT STRICTLY DIS OBEY THEIR RULES!!

I am a student at Touro-Nevada and I entered the school knowing that I would have to obide by their jewish values. I am a christian but have no problem not eating pork with milk on campus. They are providing me with a great education so i live by their rules!!

ATTN all gay people: STOP STRUTTING AROUND ADVERTISING THAT YOU ARE GAY! do I walk around school all day saying that i'm straight? is there a straight club? NO...

-Proud student of Touro College systems not giving money to people who disrupt their values.

they really allow people like this to practice medicine?!😕 I am glad I am not applying to Touro, this is ridiculous.

 

[It'sElectric]

This thread is so ridiculous it's laughable. A private university has the right to allocate funds and dictate morality any way it chooses. It can discriminate (whether right or wrong) based on it's own codes of morality. There are no bi/gay/lesbian clubs at Notre Dame, Brigham Young or Albert Einstein and you don't hear anything about 'dramatic' stories evolving there. In fact, each of these three has honor codes specifically prohibiting any form of homosexuality. These are all private schools, they are able to dictate their own form of morality because they do not take federal funds. If tax payers aren't paying funds to TUCOM, the public has no right to demand it's morality on a private institution. If you don't like it... organize your own club off campus or go to school somewhere else.

I support TUCOM's decision, just like I would support any private gay or lesbian college's decision not to fund a christian/jewish/catholic club.

Get over it!

Couldn't have said it better myself. Laughable is the best way to describe this thread. This isn't something new, people. Private institutions have been dictating what goes on within the confines of their property for centuries, and in the United States that practice has been reaffirmed numerous times by the Courts.

Someone tried to state that this isn't about the law and people shouldn't hide behind the law, etc. It's about people's feelings. Well that's entirely asinine. This has everything to do with the law, and if you choose to be a part of a country that is governed by laws, then that's something you have to accept.

Let's try and say this one more time, because it's not getting through to some people:
TUCOM is a PRIVATE institution that does NOT receive aid from the public.

Thus, they have the right to say where THEIR money goes. I'm not looking at this in "right and wrong" terms. I'm pro-homosexual, pro-people doing what they please so long as it doesn't infringe upon others' rights. But this has absolutely NOTHING to do with "right and wrong".

 

[It'sElectric]

Yay for Touro!! I totally support touro's decision. THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED BY ANY MEANS TO GIVE THEIR OWN MONEY TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT STRICTLY DIS OBEY THEIR RULES!!

I am a student at Touro-Nevada and I entered the school knowing that I would have to obide by their jewish values. I am a christian but have no problem not eating pork with milk on campus. They are providing me with a great education so i live by their rules!!

ATTN all gay people: STOP STRUTTING AROUND ADVERTISING THAT YOU ARE GAY! do I walk around school all day saying that i'm straight? is there a straight club? NO...

-Proud student of Touro College systems not giving money to people who disrupt their values.

Everyone please take note that this is this person's FIRST post. In other words, someone is hiding behind a false, temporary name simply to stir the pot. I would suggest everyone ignore these inane comments.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

they really allow people like this to practice medicine?!😕 I am glad I am not applying to Touro, this is ridiculous.

I'm suspicious that the above obnoxious poster you're referring to is a particular Touro-NV student who was already banned for being a general jerk. Check out the podiatry forum to see who I'm talking about.

 

[Junkster]

I find it ironic that a school founded by people of the Jewish faith are openly against supporting the existence of another minority group...

Obviously, the admins at Touro have not studied history much.

That being said... it is a private university, who have the right to do whatever they please. IF some students find it unacceptable, it would be their choice to leave the institution.

Personally, I don't agree with their decision. If they are truly abiding by the Jewish faith, why allow chrisitans, or non-jews into the school in the first place?

 

[iliacus]

I find it ironic that a school founded by people of the Jewish faith are openly against supporting the existence of another minority group...

Obviously, the admins at Touro have not studied history much.

That being said... it is a private university, who have the right to do whatever they please. IF some students find it unacceptable, it would be their choice to leave the institution.

Personally, I don't agree with their decision. If they are truly abiding by the Jewish faith, why allow chrisitans, or non-jews into the school in the first place?

I totally agree...they have the right to do it...it just sucks that they utilize that right in such a negative and hurtfull way. You think they'd be more thoughtful and respect their students more. They have no problem taking gay/lesbian students tuition money, but god forbid they start a club.

 

[NEATOMD]

Is it moral to force someone (or an organization, such as TUCOM) to support something (an organization such as LGTB) that they morally disagree with?

I believe that the answer to this question is No.
And I also believe that two wrongs don't make a right.

Whether other people agree with your moral beliefs, I think it is important to remain steadfast in them. Just as it is right for bth7 to vocally oppose what he sees as injustice, it would also be injust/immoral for this school to fail to take a stand and then act on a core value of their own.

Further, if their value system states that they oppose christianity, then they should similarly withhold funding from Christian groups.

 

[Junkster]

NEATOMD makes a good point as well.

If this university is using it's religious lines, much like Loma Linda and some Jesuit schools in justifying their differences from other programs, then it shouldn't be able to pick and choose their belief system to their liking.

I just see Touro point at their religious belief as a defense, while they are supporting other groups that are not in the lines with the Jewish faith. If their religious lines are that important, they could just go the way of Bob Jones University and recruit accordingly. If this school was so concerned about sexual orientation, why would they accept them in the first place?

 

[NEATOMD]

I would also like to point out that I don't think that failing to financially support a group such as LGBT equates to failure to train students to adequately treat LGBT medically.

Failure to support either organization does not necessary reflect intolerance or lack of compassion.

For instance, if you disagree with public smoking, you would probably refuse to purchase or light a friend's cigarettes. But, this doesn't mean you don't care for them, wouldn't purchase them other products, or care about their medical needs.

Further, it is not only "intolerant" physicians that fail to meet the medical needs of LGBT groups. Research actually indicates that it's pretty much universal and linked to lack of training or knowledge more than lack or compassion or desire.

I don't think that you can assume that, because TUCOM will not fund a LGBT group, that they will not train their students to treat such patients with the utmost respect or that they will fail to utilize the best medical knowledge in their curriculum.

 

[It'sElectric]

If this school was so concerned about sexual orientation, why would they accept them in the first place?

You're kidding, right? Maybe I filled out different applications a year ago, but I never recall having to state what my sexual orientation was.

 

[redsoxfan]

i think it seems wierd that suddenly out of the blue they're pulling funding on a particular group. im steering clear of debate on the issue here. i'm more concerned w/the sudden change of beliefs. it makes me think that the school is struggling financially and is dependent upon great sums of money from the Jewish community, which perhaps recently threatened to pull the cord on funds if the school didn't revoke official status and financial support of that club. just a thought...

 

[medhacker]

Agreed!

It is a tough call asking them to go against their moral/religious beliefs by funding a group whose activities they find to be against their faith.

I also agree with someone before that the thing to do is seek outside funding and make their presence well known on campus.

Is it moral to force someone (or an organization, such as TUCOM) to support something (an organization such as LGTB) that they morally disagree with?

I believe that the answer to this question is No.
And I also believe that two wrongs don't make a right.

Whether other people agree with your moral beliefs, I think it is important to remain steadfast in them. Just as it is right for bth7 to vocally oppose what he sees as injustice, it would also be injust/immoral for this school to fail to take a stand and then act on a core value of their own.

Further, if their value system states that they oppose christianity, then they should similarly withhold funding from Christian groups.

 

[gree0411]

As a practicing physician and someone who is not supportive of homosexuality, this whole uproar creates alienation. I am the one that you need to reach out to. I'm the one that needs to be educated. But all that this does is push me away. Why not have a discussion behind closed doors, in private, with the President and Board of the college. This public uproar is obscene.

For years I am so tired of the in your face "I'm gay" attitude. You've pushed me so far away I don't even think I could ever be accepting.

Now I realize that this post will make people upset, but I would hope that you would consider what I'm talking about. I know I'm not the only one that has been pushed to the limit.

 

[rgerwin]

I would just like to say that the notion that all Judaism is against alternative lifestyles is crap. Many Reform and Reconstructionist synagogues are all for it. My synagogue is so open about it, the first you see when you walk in the door is a plaque celebrating this LBGTA group. Yes, the medical school is private, and therefore can do what they want, but the students on campus that pay tuition also have the right to protest.

 

[cfdavid]

Minority groups organize to provide support for their members; you don't think that with the discrimination that GLBT people experience it would be necessary to organize groups, to provide support for one another?

The Straight, Gay, and Bi student alliance was presumably providing such a safe environment for its members and from that base being able to educate their fellow med students on some of the special health concerns that sexual minorities encounter, e.g., HIV/AIDS and other STDs or the special difficulties that gay couples face in the medical system when one of the partners is seriously ill and the other, due to the lack of marriage rights, is marginalized.

I don't see how such an organized group could not be necessary in medicine; just like other groups of people that suffer social stigmatization that negatively impacts their health and healthcare organizing is also necessary in medicine.

Well, sure. The counseling/supportive role of such groups are great. Frankly, as an MS1, I guess I'm just getting fed up with ridiculous amounts of emails from some very abstract student organizations. And, perhaps that's my point. I choose to play hockey with a bunch of dudes from med school. But, none of us are thinking about starting a group called Medical Students for Hockey. Rather, we simply get together and "associate". I just don't see the need to make a big to-do about sexual orientation in such a formal way, I guess.

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

It's not like they said Gay students can no longer attend here and be doctors, just that the school no longer recognizes the GLBT club on campus as a club.

Does this mean Gay's can't go there and graduate? Of course not.
Does it mean the GLBT club can't meet somewhere besides campus and do what they want? Of course not.


All it means is that they are going to exercise their freedom as a private institution to exercise choice in what clubs they allow on campus. This is the same as a Christian school choosing not to recognize a Pro-abortion club. If you have such a big problem with it, don't go there. If you're already there transfer.
If you don't want to transfer, then deal with it.

If you don't want to go through the hassle of transferring, the possibility of having to sit out a year or start over, then it really isn't that big of a deal to you, is it?


I personally have nothing against GLBT individuals, one of my best friends in college is gay along with several other friends of mine. What I have a problem with is that GLBT clubs don't realize that they are outside the realm of all other clubs. GLBT clubs symbolize and provide support for a sexuality and the sexual interests related to it. If someone wanted to form an S&M club on campus, I would expect them to encounter the same types of problems.

 

[71263]

Does anyone have a list of student organizations? Im curious to see if there are Christian and/or Muslim student groups at the university. A while ago, NYMC also disbanded the LGBT organization at their school, but they allowed the Jewish, Islamic, etc organizations to continue. Funny how they thought the latter did not go against the 'mission' of the school.

 

[71263]

I just don't see the need to make a big to-do about sexual orientation in such a formal way, I guess.

For the same reason that people of different races, religions, and ethnic groups choose to make a 'big to do' about themselves. Why not abolish all such clubs?

 

[bth7]

Gay and Lesbian Medical Association
American Medical Student Association

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: September 11, 2006

MEDIA ADVISORY: STUDENTS AT TOURO UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE TO PROTEST ABOLITION OF THEIR GAY-STRAIGHT ALLIANCE GROUP

What: Students at Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine, joined by officials of the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association and the American Medical Student Association, gather to protest Touro University's abolition of the school's several-year-old Gay-Straight Alliance.

When: Monday, September 11, 2006, 4:30 pm Pacific Time

Where: Intersection of Georgia Street and Mare Island Way, Vallejo, CA (50 yards north of Vallejo Ferry Terminal)

Link to Map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Georgia+Street+and+Mare+Island+Way,+Vallejo,+CA&ie=UTF8&om=1&z=15&ll=38.095896,-122.251568&spn=0.024047,0.051413

-30-

For 25 years, the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association (GLMA) has worked to ensure equality in health care for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender patients and health professionals. For more information, call 415-255-4547 or visit www.glma.org.

The American Medical Student Association (AMSA) is the oldest and largest independent association of physicians-in-training in the United States. With more than 68,000 members, AMSA is committed to improving medical training as well as advancing the profession of medicine. To learn more about AMSA, please visit www.amsa.org.

bh

 

[medhacker]

It can be seen miles away that the issue is not about money...

While everyone is screaming about the "injustice"...

Did the school ban the group?
Prevent them from hanging posters on bulletin boards?
Tell them that they can't meet in school facilities?

No. They told them to find their own source of funding. They're pissed off because they got cut off from the trough. Freaking well collect dues like other organizations do, and maybe cut back on free pizza at meetings to save money.

Honestly, it ain't money (regardless of source) that will open minds and change values. Maybe someone needs to look at their priorities.

 

[medhacker]

As a practicing physician and someone who is not supportive of homosexuality, this whole uproar creates alienation. I am the one that you need to reach out to. I'm the one that needs to be educated. But all that this does is push me away. Why not have a discussion behind closed doors, in private, with the President and Board of the college. This public uproar is obscene.

How is this different from the attitude of those that opposed civil right movements public demonstrations? or those that oppose any other group of people without an acceptable degrre of respect and tolerance. It is rubish! the LGBT community neither needs to compromise its principles to please each person who does not approve neither it needs to handle this "behind closed doors".

For years I am so tired of the in your face "I'm gay" attitude. You've pushed me so far away I don't even think I could ever be accepting.

I would bet it is the other way around, you do not wish to be accepting, therefore you get tired of those who are proud of their alternate sexuality.

Just more of that old bigotry...