Liberal Arts Classes-the dreaded last stretch

[friendlybear]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hi guys,

I'm a B.S. Pharmaceutical Sciences major at Purdue University in wintry Indiana, with minors in Chemistry & Psychology. GPA 3.91, MCAT 37. Lab research, solid EC's, aspiring MD/PhD applicant.

Now that those facts are out of the way, I want to have everybody's opinion on liberal arts classes. I'm taking my last 4 liberal arts classes this spring, and pretty sure I will get B's in 2/4 of the them. Will this hurt me too badly when I apply for MD/PhD? I'm frankly not interested in them, and want to know if I have a reason to be motivated.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Try and do well - your GPA is high enough and you have enough credits where Bs won't knock you down all that much anyway. Relax, it's your last semester in college you SHOULD enjoy it 🙂 !

 

[Myuu]

Hi guys,

I'm a B.S. Pharmaceutical Sciences major at Purdue University in wintry Indiana, with minors in Chemistry & Psychology. GPA 3.91, MCAT 37. Lab research, solid EC's, aspiring MD/PhD applicant.

Now that those facts are out of the way, I want to have everybody's opinion on liberal arts classes. I'm taking my last 4 liberal arts classes this spring, and pretty sure I will get B's in 2/4 of the them. Will this hurt me too badly when I apply for MD/PhD? I'm frankly not interested in them, and want to know if I have a reason to be motivated.

Are you required to take these classes? A couple of B's probably won't hurt you too much numerically (unless they're 4+cr Bs) or with adcoms, though I know nothing about the MD/PhD game. That being said, As are always better.👍

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

Hi guys,

Now that those facts are out of the way, I want to have everybody's opinion on liberal arts classes. I'm taking my last 4 liberal arts classes this spring, and pretty sure I will get B's in 2/4 of the them. Will this hurt me too badly when I apply for MD/PhD? I'm frankly not interested in them, and want to know if I have a reason to be motivated.

They're important. Why wouldn't they be? Liberal arts classes contribute to your overall GPA, many med schools require a certain amount of credits in them, and they often more strongly reflect your ability to read/think critically and communicate effectively. That being said, you shouldn't be worried about them, but don't blow them off either.

 

[ICmyFuture]

A 3.91 and a 37 with two b's in liberal arts classes 🙁, i'd start looking for a new career path....

 

[AdmiralChz]

A 3.91 and a 37 with two b's in liberal arts classes 🙁, i'd start looking for a new career path....

Have you thought about Caribbean? 😀

 

[airplanes]

Pass/Fail those suckers. LizzyM care to comment on how those would look? I already applied so some P/F's this term aren't affecting my application.

 

[friendlybear]

Thanks for all of your thoughtful input. Here's a list of what I'm taking: Intro to Philosophy, British English Literature (At risk: 70 yr old teacher keeps giving out fistfuls of B-'s), Industrial/Organizational psychology(-At risk, but hope for getting an A), Organizational Leadership and Supervision. They count as part of the 24 credit hours that Johns Hopkins wants, and as for the lit class, to suffice the year of english needed by a lot of schools. I guess I should have mentioned I'm aiming for ridiculously hard admissions schools like Harvard and UCSF and the whole schmo. Here's what's important: I don't want the interviewer at Harvard to give me a cold glance and say ";Hey pal, you're telling me that you are ready for Harvard and you can't even handle liberal arts classes? What's your excuse? Are you stupid? Or just lazy?". So, I guess I'll just work hard and push through it. What originally got to me was that if I passed with flying colors people would be like, "Well duh, it's liberal arts, so what?" and if I got B's people would be like, "Are you slacking off? How dare you? We're not sure if we want slackers like you, even if it's about liberal arts". Sorry for the long post!!!

 

[cyclin M]

If you can BS then you can easily get As in liberal arts classes. The same applies for pseudo science classes but an extra requirement for those is the ability to read a book. What I'm saying is, just get As in them, it should not be difficult. IMHO MD/PhD probably won't care about those classes. Most important thing for MD/PhD is your research and MCAT to show you have the potential to ace the boards.

 

[Tiare208]

My 2 cents: all essays are BS but not all sh*& is created equal. It has to be cohesive, logical BS. My English teacher in high school went into a whole speech about the various textures of poop and relating them to essay writing styles. I will spare you the details.

 

[friendlybear]

lol, noted. Thanks

 

[Jersey87]

I've received two solid B's and a smattering of B+'s in humanities classes (in my major, no less), and have still received MD interviews at most of the schools to which I applied. If your science GPA is strong and your MCAT is strong and everything is solid, you'll be fine. Don't worry about it so much.

In fact, I would venture to say if you try to step out of your element, you might surprise yourself with how well you can do. If all you're concerned about is an easy A, then try to find "easy" professors, but you'll get more out of the classes and find the work less onerous if you actually enjoy the subject material.

 

[enjoydrywax]

OP, I have received Bs in three 4-unit classes here at UCLA that were all bull**** liberal artsy subjective-grading-on-essays kind of classes. I would have had a 3.95 without them, but with them I have a 3.86 OA AMCAS GPA (4.00 BCPM "science classes" GPA). Rest assured you are fine in terms of applying to top research-based programs; with a very similar MCAT score I have interviewed at all UCs (including UCSF), both Harvard's HST and NP programs, and recieved an invite to interview at WashU (turned it down because no more money for plane tickets 🙁).

Bottom line: you are set, do your best to hammer out As, and if you get Bs not a big deal.

edit: also I didn't read if you answered this question or not, but can you take these classes P/F?

edit2: Here's a good general strategy to handle humanities classes without much effort at all. Write your essays well ahead of time (i.e not the night before) and take them into office hours with whoever your TA/professor is. Keep doing this over and over again, just make sure it's not excessive and to the point where your grader will start getting pissed. Show that you actually care about writing a good essay and the fact that they have read over your essay/given you a few pointers, you can almost be sure that you will score well above the curve. It only makes sense: if the professor sees your paper in the stack of papers that need to be graded and remembers your face and how he corrected some of your logic points/flow/content he will be much more likely to grade favorably.

It's a shame I learned this AFTER my humanities classes. Ugh.

 

[lrkoehle]

A couple of B's probably won't kill you, but if it is the semester right before you apply then it shows a downward trend. The concern would be that the grades in your most current semester, which they may assume most closely reflect your current motivation level, would not be very good.

As for what it might do to your GPA, I would recommed you open an excel spreadsheet and punch in all your grades to accurately figure it out. I was just playing around with my spreadsheet of grades (overall GPA is 3.89 with 123 credits), and 6 credit hours of B's makes a difference. It isn't a huge difference, but it did drop it an amount I would not have liked. If you have less credits than I do, then those B's will factor more greatly into your average.

Bottom line: just get A's if at all possible, if you accpet that getting B's is OK this early on then you set yourself up to just get a B. I see this happen all the time with my O Chem students who assume an A is too hard to get. Good luck!

 

[lrkoehle]

edit2: Here's a good general strategy to handle humanities classes without much effort at all. Write your essays well ahead of time (i.e not the night before) and take them into office hours with whoever your TA/professor is. Keep doing this over and over again, just make sure it's not excessive and to the point where your grader will start getting pissed. Show that you actually care about writing a good essay and the fact that they have read over your essay/given you a few pointers, you can almost be sure that you will score well above the curve. It only makes sense: if the professor sees your paper in the stack of papers that need to be graded and remembers your face and how he corrected some of your logic points/flow/content he will be much more likely to grade favorably.

It's a shame I learned this AFTER my humanities classes. Ugh.

This is an incredibly important point for almost ANY class, even lab reports. Most professors/TAs are regular people, so if you talk to them they will understand you care and put the effort in. If you don't talk to them, they have no clue who you are, and thus they have to assume you just didn't try/care enough to make sure you were doing the work correctly.

 

[friendlybear]

Thank you so much everybody. I'm going to ask ASAP whether the difficult ones can be taken P/F, especially that english class. I'm glad to know that B's won't kill me, but I'm now motivated to get A's just to spite those batty old professors.

Thanks enjoydrywax for offering me the alternate liberal arts strategy! 😀

 

[deepsnow]

The obsession with simply achieving a high GPA above all else seems much more likely to harm you as an applicant than a couple B's would...

 

[koffein]

Liberal Arts classes are useless anyway. They don't matter. Fack them. It really makes no difference for you at this point so long as you don't get below B- I wouldn't fret.

 

[DrWookie]

Liberal Arts classes are useless anyway. They don't matter. Fack them. It really makes no difference for you at this point so long as you don't get below B- I wouldn't fret.

Ya, screw all that "well rounded" crap 😉

I personal enjoyed taking the "dreaded liberal arts classes"...but then again I chose a liberal arts college for a reason.

 

[friendlybear]

All right, asked the English teacher and she says that it's allowed to take her class pass/fail. On her suggestion, I told the school's pre-health professions advisor and she wrote the following:

"It is difficult to know that. In general, you have to remember that you
must get at least a C or you will not pass. So if you are having
trouble in the class, it may be difficult to get the pass. It also
becomes much easier to put that work off until the end because you only
need a C, at which point students sometimes fall below the C.

In terms of med school, they don't like it very much. If you have only
one course and it isn't a science class, it probably won't hurt you too
much. The higher end schools like Harvard, however, probably have very
few students making use of P/F grades. And if they need 2 semesters of
English--then this is a required course for them so they will like it
even less.

So basically, it generally doesn't hurt much if it is only one course on
your whole record. It may, however, be more of a problem at the high
end schools like Harvard than it is at IU. Though it won't necessarily
keep you from getting in at a high end school, it will be something they
have to consider carefully."

I guess her point is that B-'s are better than pass to top-notch places? If that's the case, I'll just bite the bullet and take the GPA hit. What do you guys think about her reply? Geez, I was so confident that this was going to my ticket out of hell!

edit- It's OK though, I've already resolved to win this uphill battle.

 

[Quix]

I always find it funny when BS types slam liberal arts classes. And then don't understand why they end up with C's. Being able to earn a BS degree doesn't translate into being able to hack liberal arts classes, folks. Philosophy is especially difficult for a reason. And it's not subjective grading, it's that the classes are oriented in teaching you to ask the right kinds of questions and think critically, which many of the "BS" types have a hard time doing.

But, by all means, keep going back to thinking the liberal arts are easy and take your "F's" in my classes with a smile. 🙂

 

[aloepathic]

i always find it funny when bs types slam liberal arts classes. And then don't understand why they end up with c's. Being able to earn a bs degree doesn't translate into being able to hack liberal arts classes, folks. Philosophy is especially difficult for a reason. And it's not subjective grading, it's that the classes are oriented in teaching you to ask the right kinds of questions and think critically, which many of the "bs" types have a hard time doing.

But, by all means, keep going back to thinking the liberal arts are easy and take your "f's" in my classes with a smile. 🙂

ftw

 

[medhope31]

I don't think you will have any problem taking it P/F. It is not better for med schools to see a B- instead of P. It will mar your very strong GPA and it is definitely not worth it. You need to take it P/F if you think you are going to get a B.

I know the adcom's perspective because I have two family members on med school adcoms.

Edit: I just read your second post. If you are taking these for courses that are required for med schools ( you mentioned Harvard and JHU) you HAVE to take them for a grade. Work hard by being involved with the class, and making sure that your professor or TA ( whoever is grading) knows you. I was a TA last semester, and it was definitely difficult to give B's to students that showed they cared about the class and their grade. Discuss your paper topics with them and you should be really fine. Unlike science courses in which you only have the tests to worry about, liberal arts courses ARE subjective, but you can have more control over your grade if you don't sit anonymously in the back of the class. Also, don't take these classes for granted- there is a reason that they are required!!

 

[Evergrey]

From what I understand, some schools take a "P" to mean the minimum passing grade.. so a C- or whatever it is at your school (my school counts a fail as below a 70).

 

[friendlybear]

Yeah...I guess it's settled then. Case closed, I'll let you guys know how things go.

 

[dmblue]

edit2: Here's a good general strategy to handle humanities classes without much effort at all. Write your essays well ahead of time (i.e not the night before) and take them into office hours with whoever your TA/professor is. Keep doing this over and over again, just make sure it's not excessive and to the point where your grader will start getting pissed. Show that you actually care about writing a good essay and the fact that they have read over your essay/given you a few pointers, you can almost be sure that you will score well above the curve. It only makes sense: if the professor sees your paper in the stack of papers that need to be graded and remembers your face and how he corrected some of your logic points/flow/content he will be much more likely to grade favorably.

It's a shame I learned this AFTER my humanities classes. Ugh.

Always worked the opposite for me. In one class, I got an A+ (the only one the teacher gave out all term) on the one paper that I wrote the night before. It was worth ~30% of my grade 🙂, raising me from a B+/A- to an A.

 

[friendlybear]

Enjoydrywax, Irkoehle, and all my other friends on this thread:

Thank you all so much for giving me positive advice! I ended up dropping the Philosophy class because I found out I didn't need it after all (whew!) and ended up getting an A- in the English literature class. I don't think that A- would have been possible without going to office hours every week. I also really had to change my mindset to see the sometimes abstruse ideas that the poets and writers were getting at; that took a lot of work. So, I ended up with good semester grades after all!

Thank you all again, I could not have done this without your input. I am currently starting a summer internship at NIH as I begin working on my primary applications on AMCAS. I'm sure we'll all have a chance to chat again soon. 🙂

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

Ace them. They are completely pointless classes just there to piss off student's who aren't in that major, but an A is an A.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

They're important. Why wouldn't they be? Liberal arts classes contribute to your overall GPA, many med schools require a certain amount of credits in them, and they often more strongly reflect your ability to read/think critically and communicate effectively. That being said, you shouldn't be worried about them, but don't blow them off either.

Man, your school must be WAY different than mine. I just show up to class (once in a while), write some crappy paper, and go home with my A.

I have to admit that I seek the easiest liberal arts courses though. No reason to waste my time on classes that contribute nothing to my future outside of a few more GPA points.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Man, your school must be WAY different than mine. I just show up to class (once in a while), write some crappy paper, and go home with my A.

I have to admit that I seek the easiest liberal arts courses though. No reason to waste my time on classes that contribute nothing to my future outside of a few more GPA points.

It can be argued that the abilty to think critically is more important longterm than knowing reaction mechanisms, memorizing equations, etc.

 

[FlowLimited]

It can be argued that the abilty to think critically is more important longterm than knowing reaction mechanisms, memorizing equations, etc.

Agreed. Remember, practicing medicine isn't purely scientific. You're going to be treating humans, so some humanities classes won't kill you.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Yea, I don't get why people say humanities majors are easy. Every single bio class I've taken so far has been a joke (I'm an MCB major) because all they take to do well in is memorization (which comes really easy for me, thankfully) and regurgitation. The only MCB class I've had to do some thinking for so far has been my upper level physiology course. I've enjoyed taking several philosophy courses and reading Kant or Nietzche, etc., is, in my opinion, so much harder than just memorizing something.

Don't get me wrong; I love all the science classes I've taken so far. But I definitely feel like biology courses don't require you to think much.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

It can be argued that the abilty to think critically is more important longterm than knowing reaction mechanisms, memorizing equations, etc.

Agreed, but you can learn to think critically in science courses. People who simply attempt to memorize everything aren't learning at all.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

Yea, I don't get why people say humanities majors are easy. Every single bio class I've taken so far has been a joke (I'm an MCB major) because all they take to do well in is memorization (which comes really easy for me, thankfully) and regurgitation. The only MCB class I've had to do some thinking for so far has been my upper level physiology course. I've enjoyed taking several philosophy courses and reading Kant or Nietzche, etc., is, in my opinion, so much harder than just memorizing something.

Don't get me wrong; I love all the science classes I've taken so far. But I definitely feel like biology courses don't require you to think much.

Agree with this also. Biology is a ridiculously easy subject. I don't think it's easier than the humanities (because you don't really have to know anything, you just write some bs).

The fact that biology is mostly just memorization makes it my least favorite science. It's incredibly boring to sit and memorize crap, i prefer to think through processes or calculate things. Chemistry and Physics FTMFGDW!!!!