LifeStance Psychiatry Job?

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trixter888

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Has anyone worked with this company? They are touting that I can have my "own practice" within their system. Basically they cover overhead, and hiring other staff to help facilitate our practice. Mixed reviews online, mostly negative form supporting staff. Wondering if any clinicians work for this company?

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It's essentially venture capital's way of owning psychiatric practices in comparison to the buyouts of groups that many other fields have. It is nothing like owning your own practice as you own nothing and get a relatively low percent of income you generate.
 
There are several similar companies like this (Genoa, Array/formerly Insight, a few younger entrants frequently advertising on social media), and I agree with the above. The overall pay rate is low (let's call it $100 per hour, $50 per encounter). It's not really comparable to running your own practice because most of the margins are not yours. It's more like working for mcdonalds. This likely will lead to deterioration of the workforce for big box telepsych companies.
 
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There is a "Lifestance" literally within a casual bike ride of my house (a development right next to my childhood home actually). Its called "PsychBC" here though. Maybe the buyout hasn't integrated with "Lifestance" yet, I don't know?

My impression is that it is a workhouse. My clinical impression is that it is not known for being very impressive. In my town, sans a handful of PP practitioners and groups practices, quality of care gets dicey if you aren't at the local university/medical school and its associated outpatient clinic.
 
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Hmmm thank you! I am a new resident and just exploring the options out there. I came across a job offering. Recruiter stated that they will be developing an additional 4 clinics in my area within the next year.

Does anyone have personal experience working for one?
 
Hmmm thank you! I am a new resident and just exploring the options out there. I came across a job offering. Recruiter stated that they will be developing an additional 4 clinics in my area within the next year.

Does anyone have personal experience working for one?

I looked at Lifestance recently (they also own PsychBC as the above poster noted). I agree with most of the assessments above about my takeaway from them. It's basically a guaranteed income model year 1, then switches to pure collections after that. On the bottom end of what you can expect from a cut (60/40) and their benefits are NOT that great at all (their health insurance plans were literally basically just as good as marketplace plans you could buy on your own). Their "CME" was a subscription to Uptodate. The cut didn't really seem to be negotiable either and their average insurance reimbursement rate for my area wasn't exactly awesome. The whole venture capital ownership left a bad taste in my mouth too...you know they're skimming way more off to make up for their investment. You're also a W2 employee, so it's really NOT like having a private practice...they can still require you to adhere to all the other employee crap that comes along with a large organization.
 
its alluring for people who want semi retirement, as you can do full telepsych, and get paid solely on the amount of patients you see and set your schedule up that way.

as a younger psychiatrist, there were too many jobs out there offering guaranteed base salary and ive never been one to gamble.

also my biggest issue was that you were getting income per encounter/code (99214 vs 13) and if you compare what they paid vs what it actually reimburses, I would have rather just rented some small office and did my own thing and cut out the middle man which is kinda what they are
 
They are buying up tons of group practices in California right now, which is a bummer. I talked to them, but it seemed like a total grind. And while you're a W2, the benefits weren't impressive ("vacation" is unpaid?). I passed very quickly, though I should state I have 2 friends working for them (or working for a practice bought by them) and they don't seem like they hate their lives, but one did state that their practice is becoming very corporate as Lifestance slowly takes over.
 

avoid like the plague unless youre just doing resident moonlighting with them or something
 

avoid like the plague unless youre just doing resident moonlighting with them or something
I view this like the decision like the decision with how to train/work with midlevels. It is ultimately up to the doctors to decide if they want to contribute to for-profit MBA lead mental health care while making lower sized returns in exchange for convenience. How the healthcare landscape evolves will be directly related to how MDs choose to practice moving forward.
 
I view this like the decision like the decision with how to train/work with midlevels. It is ultimately up to the doctors to decide if they want to contribute to for-profit MBA lead mental health care while making lower sized returns in exchange for convenience. How the healthcare landscape evolves will be directly related to how MDs choose to practice moving forward.

Yeah and it’d be different if Lifestance was offering something better than most private jobs but it doesn’t. You only have a guaranteed salary the first year and then switches to straight collections, where they obviously skim a significant proportion of money off the top to support their sprawling infrastructure and pay back their private equity backers. So I can’t even say it’s that convenient…their benefits were nothin to write home about and it’s the same as any other collections based job you could find with any private practice after the first year. The only good thing I could say is that they base your split on billing, not collections, so you aren’t waiting for the insurance company to pay you back and there’s no lag there They’re just looking to become a behemoth that can pressure other people out of the market by branding and making deals with insurance companies/other facilities to preferentially refer patients to them.

Thanks for posting this. I didn’t even know they were doing an IPO. Now that it’s public, I’m twice as glad I didn’t join up there. Basically is gonna be like working for HCA…you can go see all the great experiences working with for profit healthcare systems online in other forums. Physicians are going to quickly be viewed as high priced employees and I bet the NP/physician ratio starts going through the roof. Costs are likely to be cut all over the place as they try to maximize profitability and their private equity backers try to exit their positions/make their money back by dumping shares while the gettins good.
 
Thanks for posting this. I didn’t even know they were doing an IPO. Now that it’s public, I’m twice as glad I didn’t join up there. Basically is gonna be like working for HCA…you can go see all the great experiences working with for profit healthcare systems online in other forums. Physicians are going to quickly be viewed as high priced employees and I bet the NP/physician ratio starts going through the roof. Costs are likely to be cut all over the place as they try to maximize profitability and their private equity backers try to exit their positions/make their money back by dumping shares while the gettins good.
Oh physicians are already just viewed as high priced employees producing widgets, no different than a software engineer at a FAANG company. There is no future that does not include health care and tech so we are safe investments of capital. We get good pay and maybe treated a bit better than Jo Shmo but only because the cost to replace us is somewhat higher. Thankfully private practice psychiatry is eminently doable for almost every grad, and there are still some small MD founded/run groups out there (which is what I am joining) which allows psychiatrists to practice medicine that's actually in the best interest of patients.
 
Wanted to share my perspective. I'm a CAP PGY-5 and will start work in summer/fall 2022. I'm wrestling with a few choices I'll have to make over the next year or so between going into private practice and being employed.

I would love nothing more than to go into private practice by myself or with a small, physician-owned group. I've talked to several private practices, as well as a few of these more corporate, PE-backed entities, about jobs. There are definitely pros and cons to both. I would obviously give up autonomy and $$$ by working for LifeStance, Community Psychiatry, Vertava/CWG, etc. But the comforts of working for someone like that are nontrivial: 401k with a match, health/dental/vision insurance, disability / life policy reimbursement, outsourcing all of the scheduling, advertising, clerical, support staff burden, etc. Most of them are willing to include clauses in their contract that I require: NO obligation to supervise midlevels, protected time weekly, reimbursement for required corporate training time, etc. Most of the docs employed by these practices that I've spoken with (formally and informally) seem to appreciate the return they get for sacrificing some of their autonomy.

I have a dependent that gets very, very expensive treatments for an autoimmune illness several times per year. The comfort of being insured under a large policy (instead of fending for ourselves on the exchange every year) is worth a lot to us. If there was a way to have my cake (working fully autonomously in private practice) and eat it too (have access to excellent healthcare), I would jump on it. But I haven't found that solution yet. Curious to hear others' thoughts.
 
Wanted to share my perspective. I'm a CAP PGY-5 and will start work in summer/fall 2022. I'm wrestling with a few choices I'll have to make over the next year or so between going into private practice and being employed.

I would love nothing more than to go into private practice by myself or with a small, physician-owned group. I've talked to several private practices, as well as a few of these more corporate, PE-backed entities, about jobs. There are definitely pros and cons to both. I would obviously give up autonomy and $$$ by working for LifeStance, Community Psychiatry, Vertava/CWG, etc. But the comforts of working for someone like that are nontrivial: 401k with a match, health/dental/vision insurance, disability / life policy reimbursement, outsourcing all of the scheduling, advertising, clerical, support staff burden, etc. Most of them are willing to include clauses in their contract that I require: NO obligation to supervise midlevels, protected time weekly, reimbursement for required corporate training time, etc. Most of the docs employed by these practices that I've spoken with (formally and informally) seem to appreciate the return they get for sacrificing some of their autonomy.

I have a dependent that gets very, very expensive treatments for an autoimmune illness several times per year. The comfort of being insured under a large policy (instead of fending for ourselves on the exchange every year) is worth a lot to us. If there was a way to have my cake (working fully autonomously in private practice) and eat it too (have access to excellent healthcare), I would jump on it. But I haven't found that solution yet. Curious to hear others' thoughts.

So, here's the thing, I'd have a very clear exit plan if I were to start with one of these PE groups. For instance, the fact that Lifestance just went public means it has a very clear agenda...it has to act in the best interest of its shareholders. Period. Not you, not patients, it is legally obligated to act in the best interest of its shareholders. If the corporation determines financially that means they hire 10 NPs for every 1 psychiatrist and hires every bottom of the barrel new grad LPCC to do "therapy" for minimum pay, that's what they'll do. None of those doctors have been there since they've been a publicly traded company, since it just happened this year.

I would also look very closely and actually calculate out the specific financial benefit of what you're getting vs other private practices or buying market (or even academic centers which tend to not have great pay but can have very good benefits...which might add up in your situation where you could have access to a tertiary care center for a relatively low cost if you work for them).

Lifestance would absolutely not include anything like "protected time weekly" when I was talking to them (and a couple other people I knew who talked to them, some of whom ultimately joined up). They went to a straight percentage of collections model after year 1, so I guess protected in the context of you don't really have to work when you don't want to work but you're not gonna get paid for it. Remember that they say it's "like a private practice" but you're a W2 employee with them...which means if they want you to start following all the rules in the employee handbook, going to 10 "quality assurance" meetings a week, adhering to new "quality metrics" and wearing the lifestance polo with their logo on it, you have to do it.

I'm literally looking at their benefits booklet right now. Their 401k match is max 4% a year (if you contribute at least 5%), which is 10K if you're making 250K. That's literally worse than most employed jobs out there in general. If you're a contractor or own your own private practice, you can contribute to a SEP IRA or Solo 401k which would end up being significantly more (since you'd also likely make much more than 10K a year in those positions).

Their ****tiest health insurance plan was $1100 a month for a family (employee/spouse/children) with an $11K deductible and $14k OOP max and highest PPO buy up was $2400 A MONTH still with a $3K deductible and $6K OOP max. So if you have someone with a really expensive medical condition who will bump you up to at least that deductible and probably the OOP max (and you don't want to stay in their crappy lowest tier bronze network), you'll pay almost $35K a year. If you stayed in their lowest tier plan, you'd still pay $27K if you hit their OOP max. With a group insurance plan. No thanks.

For reference, I literally just bought a HSA eligible gold plan on my health insurance exchange for my family. $900 bucks a month for the broadest PPO network with a $5800 deductible and $8000 OOP max. Also has an out of network OOP max as well so you can avoid getting totally boned and balance billed for a million bucks. So most I'd pay if I stay in network is $18,800 and I can contribute to an HSA to offset some of that. Oh yeah and I only pay 10% after I hit the deductible (Lifestance plans were 20-30% depending on the plan).

As you can see (and I mentioned above), Lifestance's health insurance plans were actually WORSE than what I could buy on my own on an exchange. To the tune of tens of thousands of dollars a year potentially. Keep in mind that health insurance exchanges CANNOT ask you about existing conditions now. They can only base insurance rates on age, number of people under the plan and smoking status. So it doesn't matter if you have a family member who has an expensive medical condition.
 
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So, here's the thing, I'd have a very clear exit plan if I were to start with one of these PE groups. For instance, the fact that Lifestance just went public means it has a very clear agenda...it has to act in the best interest of its shareholders. Period. Not you, not patients, it is legally obligated to act in the best interest of its shareholders. If the corporation determines financially that means they hire 10 NPs for every 1 psychiatrist and hires every bottom of the barrel new grad LPCC to do "therapy" for minimum pay, that's what they'll do. None of those doctors have been there since they've been a publicly traded company, since it just happened this year.

I would also look very closely and actually calculate out the specific financial benefit of what you're getting vs other private practices or buying market (or even academic centers which tend to not have great pay but can have very good benefits...which might add up in your situation where you could have access to a tertiary care center for a relatively low cost if you work for them).

Lifestance would absolutely not include anything like "protected time weekly" when I was talking to them (and a couple other people I knew who talked to them, some of whom ultimately joined up). They went to a straight percentage of collections model after year 1, so I guess protected in the context of you don't really have to work when you don't want to work but you're not gonna get paid for it. Remember that they say it's "like a private practice" but you're a W2 employee with them...which means if they want you to start following all the rules in the employee handbook, going to 10 "quality assurance" meetings a week, adhering to new "quality metrics" and wearing the lifestance polo with their logo on it, you have to do it.

I'm literally looking at their benefits booklet right now. Their 401k match is max 4% a year (if you contribute at least 5%), which is 10K if you're making 250K. That's literally worse than most employed jobs out there in general. If you're a contractor or own your own private practice, you can contribute to a SEP IRA or Solo 401k which would end up being significantly more (since you'd also likely make much more than 10K a year in those positions).

Their ****tiest health insurance plan was $1100 a month for a family (employee/spouse/children) with an $11K deductible and $14k OOP max and highest PPO buy up was $2400 A MONTH still with a $3K deductible and $6K OOP max. So if you have someone with a really expensive medical condition who will bump you up to at least that deductible and probably the OOP max (and you don't want to stay in their crappy lowest tier bronze network), you'll pay almost $35K a year. If you stayed in their lowest tier plan, you'd still pay $27K if you hit their OOP max. With a group insurance plan. No thanks.

For reference, I literally just bought a HSA eligible gold plan on my health insurance exchange for my family. $900 bucks a month for the broadest PPO network with a $5800 deductible and $8000 OOP max. Also has an out of network OOP max as well so you can avoid getting totally boned and balance billed for a million bucks. So most I'd pay if I stay in network is $18,800 and I can contribute to an HSA to offset some of that. Oh yeah and I only pay 10% after I hit the deductible (Lifestance plans were 20-30% depending on the plan).

As you can see (and I mentioned above), Lifestance's health insurance plans were actually WORSE than what I could buy on my own on an exchange. To the tune of tens of thousands of dollars a year potentially. Keep in mind that health insurance exchanges CANNOT ask you about existing conditions now. They can only base insurance rates on age, number of people under the plan and smoking status. So it doesn't matter if you have a family member who has an expensive medical condition.

Super valuable, thank you. I haven't been that deep down the rabbit hole with LifeStance specifically. Going public obviously bodes horribly for provider autonomy, compensation, and probably patient outcomes. With you on that.

I will say that we haven't found any plans on the exchange for our state that are remotely close to the numbers you describe -- all of them have higher premiums, deductibles, and OOP max than that. Like, significantly. And the ones that approach reasonable figures are companies I would need to do more research on to feel even a little bit comfortable enrolling with.

Thanks again for the insight.
 
Super valuable, thank you. I haven't been that deep down the rabbit hole with LifeStance specifically. Going public obviously bodes horribly for provider autonomy, compensation, and probably patient outcomes. With you on that.

I will say that we haven't found any plans on the exchange for our state that are remotely close to the numbers you describe -- all of them have higher premiums, deductibles, and OOP max than that. Like, significantly. And the ones that approach reasonable figures are companies I would need to do more research on to feel even a little bit comfortable enrolling with.

Thanks again for the insight.

Yes certainly that will be state to state and even county dependent in terms of plans offered on an exchange. One thing I’d look at is if there are plans in the area you’re looking at that you can purchase off-exchange. So going directly to the websites of the insurance companies who are offering exchange plans or talking to a health insurance broker can be helpful. There are specific requirements for exchange plans and there are some insurers who just don’t want to participate in the exchanges, which doesn’t necessarily mean these plans are bad, they can still even be ACA compliant and off-exchange.

For instance, the HSA plan I’m on right now I found by going directly to the website of one of the insurers that was participating in the marketplace. It was not offered on the state health insurance exchange (due to the technicalities of HSA eligible plans having to meet certain requirements to be on the exchange I won’t go into).
 
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