Local Anesthetic Toxicity in ERAS?

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docjib1

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just seeking opinions, as literature searches haven't provided much.
we are trying to establish a modified ERAS protocol at my hospital, but with focus on TAP blocks as opposed to neuraxial techniques. I have come across a couple of protocols that suggest lidocaine infusion (1-2mg/kg/hr) along with tap blocks (we use 20cc .5 ropi per side). it seems that this could push the limit of serum level of LA to unsafe levels....
what is the real risk of LA toxicity in these populations using this method? anyone with any experience using this method / combination with success or failure?
 
We do a lot ERAS at my institution, it started of with just colorectal pathway, but now have one for everything (whipples, liver resection, plastics, gyne), and I routinely took care of gorked out patients in the PACU still essentially under GA, now with just a facemask. The IV lidocaine is potent stuff--whenever I did ERAS cases, I would turn it off 30mins-1hr (depending on length of case) before emergence. Also, sadly not enough BIS monitors to go around, so a lot of people were shooting in the dark which led to a significant increase in prolonged emergence and a few cases of awareness as well.

The other thing to keep in mind about ERAS protocols is that everyone involved in patient care needs to buy in including surgeons and ICU/floor nurses. Otherwise whatever you do in the OR will be more or less moot.
 
Not sure about the LAST issue, but is the lidocaine really necessary? What's the case? I'm doing QL for most of my abdominal surgery these days (15-20ml 0.5% bupi) and the majority of the patients for hernias don't need narcotic post-op and walk out without issue. There may be a role for more invasive abdominal surgery I guess.

LAST depends partly on the patient size. 40ml of 0.5% bupi is max for 80kg patient. Though I doubt you'd have any LAST issues with the concurrent lido infusion since the uptake of your bupi into the bloodstream is relatively slow, I'd probably avoid it. All you need is one bad LAST event to make for a very, very ugly lawsuit and the benefit in my opinion is unclear.
 
Not sure about the limits being pushed, but I use 0.25% Naropin and it works just fine. I would half the concentration if you want to make it more of a non-concern.
 
We do a lot ERAS at my institution, it started of with just colorectal pathway, but now have one for everything (whipples, liver resection, plastics, gyne), and I routinely took care of gorked out patients in the PACU still essentially under GA, now with just a facemask. The IV lidocaine is potent stuff--whenever I did ERAS cases, I would turn it off 30mins-1hr (depending on length of case) before emergence. Also, sadly not enough BIS monitors to go around, so a lot of people were shooting in the dark which led to a significant increase in prolonged emergence and a few cases of awareness as well.

The other thing to keep in mind about ERAS protocols is that everyone involved in patient care needs to buy in including surgeons and ICU/floor nurses. Otherwise whatever you do in the OR will be more or less moot.
I don't see anything sad about that.
 
Anesth Analg. 2003 Aug;97(2):488-91, table of contents.
The bispectral index declines during neuromuscular block in fully awake persons.
Messner M1, Beese U, Romstöck J, Dinkel M, Tschaikowsky K.
Author information

Abstract
Bispectral index (BIS) is an electroencephalographic variable promoted for measuring depth of anesthesia. Electromyographic activity influences surface electroencephalography and the calculation of BIS. In this study, we sought to determine the effect of spontaneous electromyographic activity on BIS. BIS was monitored in three volunteers by using an Aspect A-1000 monitor. The experiment was repeated in one volunteer. Electromyographic activity was recorded. Alcuronium and succinylcholine were administered. No other drugs were used. In parallel with spontaneous electromyographic activity of the facial muscles, BIS decreased in response to muscle relaxation to a minimum value of 33 and, in the repeated measurement, to a minimum value of 9 when total neuromuscular block was achieved. In two volunteers, no total block was achieved. BIS decreased to a minimal value of 64 and 57, respectively. In turn, recovery of BIS coincided with the reappearance of spontaneous electromyographic activity. During the entire experiment, the volunteers had full consciousness. BIS, assessed by software Version 3.31, correlates with spontaneous electromyographic activity of the facial muscles. BIS failed to detect awareness in completely paralyzed subjects. Thus, in paralyzed patients, BIS monitoring may not reliably indicate a decline in sedation and imminent awareness.

IMPLICATIONS:
The bispectral index (BIS) is an electroencephalographic variable intended for measuring depth of anesthesia. Electromyographic activity influences the calculation of BIS. We found that the administration of a muscle relaxant to unanesthetized volunteers decreases the bispectral index value. Thus, awareness in totally paralyzed patients cannot be excluded.
 
Br J Anaesth. 2015 Jul;115 Suppl 1:i95-i103. doi: 10.1093/bja/aev072.
Response of bispectral index to neuromuscular block in awake volunteers.
Schuller PJ1, Newell S2, Strickland PA2, Barry JJ2.
Author information

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
The bispectral index (BIS) monitor is a quantitative electroencephalographic (EEG) device that is widely used to assess the hypnotic component of anaesthesia, especially when neuromuscular blocking drugs are used. It has been shown that the BIS is sensitive to changes in electromyogram (EMG) activity in anaesthetized patients. A single study using an earlier version of the BIS showed that decreased EMG activity caused the BIS to decrease even in awake subjects, to levels that suggested deep sedation and anaesthesia.

METHODS:
We administered suxamethonium and rocuronium to 10 volunteers who were fully awake, to determine whether the BIS decreased in response to neuromuscular block alone. An isolated forearm technique was used for communication during the experiment. Two versions of the BIS monitor were used, both of which are in current use. Sugammadex was used to antagonise the neuromuscular block attributable to rocuronium.

RESULTS:
The BIS decreased after the onset of neuromuscular block in both monitors, to values as low as 44 and 47, and did not return to pre-test levels until after the return of movement. The BIS showed a two-stage decrease, with an immediate reduction to values around 80, and then several minutes later, a sharp decrease to lower values. In some subjects, there were periods where the BIS was <60 for several minutes. The response was similar for both suxamethonium and rocuronium. Neither monitor was consistently superior in reporting the true state of awareness.

CONCLUSIONS:
These results suggest that the BIS monitor requires muscle activity, in addition to an awake EEG, in order to generate values indicating that the subject is awake. Consequently, BIS may be an unreliable indicator of awareness in patients who have received neuromuscular blocking drugs.

CLINICAL TRIAL REGISTRY NUMBER:
ACTRN12613000587707.

© The Author 2015. Published by Oxford University Press on behalf of the British Journal of Anaesthesia. All rights reserved. For Permissions, please email: [email protected].
 
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1100403?viewType=Print

End tidal vapor of 0.7 MAC is more reliable at preventing recall than BiS. For low risk patients I use O.5 MAC.

Bis Is a useful tool but it has its limitations and issues.
With true TIVA, where I can't sweet talk the surgeon/electrophysiologist to let me have at least 0.5MAC, I will apply a bispectral. Until we get something better that can be brought in the hospital, it's the only thing I have.

And I saw this article as a journal club in residency. I think there was an error on statistics, that, if done to include a tail for ETAC, demonstrated end-tidal agent is superior to BIS or vital sign monitoring. One of my seniors won a trip to a conference for pointing that out (along with errors in every article we reviewed at journal club.)

Read your articles carefully.
 
just seeking opinions, as literature searches haven't provided much.
we are trying to establish a modified ERAS protocol at my hospital, but with focus on TAP blocks as opposed to neuraxial techniques. I have come across a couple of protocols that suggest lidocaine infusion (1-2mg/kg/hr) along with tap blocks (we use 20cc .5 ropi per side). it seems that this could push the limit of serum level of LA to unsafe levels....
what is the real risk of LA toxicity in these populations using this method? anyone with any experience using this method / combination with success or failure?
I say skip the Lidocaine infusion... since it has at best minimal benefit.
 
so how much did they have to pay the volunteers to give them NMB without sedation? How exactly did they get through the IRB?
 
Until we get something better that can be brought in the hospital, it's the only thing I have.
There is absolutely no evidence that BIS prevents awareness, even in TIVA cases. Different anesthetics affect frontal eeg far differently and will give you a skewed number that doesn't truly tell you about awareness. It's a very costly, useless sticker.

The idea that you use it because it's the best we have when there is no evidence behind it makes very little sense. It's also the reason that people continue to use CVP with mountains of evidence showing it doesn't tell you what you think it would tell you.

If you have any primary literature that shows BIS works to show me, I'd love to read it.
 
With true TIVA, where I can't sweet talk the surgeon/electrophysiologist to let me have at least 0.5MAC, I will apply a bispectral. Until we get something better that can be brought in the hospital, it's the only thing I have.

And I saw this article as a journal club in residency. I think there was an error on statistics, that, if done to include a tail for ETAC, demonstrated end-tidal agent is superior to BIS or vital sign monitoring. One of my seniors won a trip to a conference for pointing that out (along with errors in every article we reviewed at journal club.)

Read your articles carefully.
Do you think those were "errors"? They are intentional to make the statistics seem significant. There are very few of us equipped to notice it.
 
If your lab can't give you a quantitative serum lidocaine in a timely manner, I would not consider lidocaine drips for liability reasons. I also would not consider lidocaine drips because they don't add much value as others have posted. They are from an era with fewer non-opioid options.

BIS.....another time.
 
all noted and well taken, thank you guys, i always creep here, way too much to be proud of, and don't post anything, but I learn so much and always enjoy the banter. cheers.
 
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I'm simply stating the published evidence. For a typical patient 0.5 MAC volatile is sufficient. Do you have any published evidence showing a lower MAC than 0.5 is sufficient to prevent recall?

http://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid=1918707

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447261/

obviously the amount of volatile required to prevent awareness depends on the patient and the other drugs you are giving them. If you like to go heavier on the benzos and narcotics it requires a lot less volatile to do the same job.
 
I'm simply stating the published evidence. For a typical patient 0.5 MAC volatile is sufficient. Do you have any published evidence showing a lower MAC than 0.5 is sufficient to prevent recall?

http://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid=1918707

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447261/

Not trying to argue with you Blade. I think your published numbers are fine - just a bit conservative in my personal experience. I coulda sworn we were taught that 0.4MAC was MAC Aware, but I'm not about to get into it over 0.1 MAC. What's that line from The Princess Bride about never getting involved in a literature war with Blade?

Obviously there are a lot of patient dependent factors - hell, with some of the geezers you could just let them stare at an unopened bottle of Sevo and you'd be fine. The volatiles are amazing brain scramblers. How many of your patients remember being extubated - even the ones who get extubated wide awake?? Most people don't remember the first 10-30mins of their PACU stay either despite being awake and conversant. Just a couple residual molecules of volatile floating around and it's still difficult to form memories.

I'm not advocating running all your pts super light, but I do think a lot of us routinely overdose people on volatile - especially the elderly pts. It's simply amazing how little it takes to prevent recall. I'd almost go so far as to say you would really have to try hard to get someone to have recall as long you've got some volatile going in the background.
 
just seeking opinions, as literature searches haven't provided much.
we are trying to establish a modified ERAS protocol at my hospital, but with focus on TAP blocks as opposed to neuraxial techniques. I have come across a couple of protocols that suggest lidocaine infusion (1-2mg/kg/hr) along with tap blocks (we use 20cc .5 ropi per side). it seems that this could push the limit of serum level of LA to unsafe levels....
what is the real risk of LA toxicity in these populations using this method? anyone with any experience using this method / combination with success or failure?

We do ERAS only for colorectal. We have not had any LAST issues. I think your LA total doses are excessive and could well get you into LAST territory.

1) 0.5% ropi for a TAP? How about 0.2-0.25% ropi or 0.25% bupi with epi (my pref). We do 0.25% bupi with epi and always talk to the surgeon about how much 0.5% bupi with epi they can put into the lap port sites.
2) IF you do lido infusion intraop -- and why are you doing that for a laparoscopic case -- why so high of a dose? I notice the lido doing untoward things like acting like a SA nodal blocker at even 1 mg/kg/h intraop, I usually end up running no more than 40-50mg/hr in normal weight pts, and that's in an open case.
 
just seeking opinions, as literature searches haven't provided much.
we are trying to establish a modified ERAS protocol at my hospital, but with focus on TAP blocks as opposed to neuraxial techniques. I have come across a couple of protocols that suggest lidocaine infusion (1-2mg/kg/hr) along with tap blocks (we use 20cc .5 ropi per side). it seems that this could push the limit of serum level of LA to unsafe levels....
what is the real risk of LA toxicity in these populations using this method? anyone with any experience using this method / combination with success or failure?

Also, diluting your LA (from 0.5%!) so you can give more volume for your TAPs is gonna give you a better block. Citations forthcoming...not
 
Not trying to argue with you Blade. I think your published numbers are fine - just a bit conservative in my personal experience. I coulda sworn we were taught that 0.4MAC was MAC Aware, but I'm not about to get into it over 0.1 MAC. What's that line from The Princess Bride about never getting involved in a literature war with Blade?

Obviously there are a lot of patient dependent factors - hell, with some of the geezers you could just let them stare at an unopened bottle of Sevo and you'd be fine. The volatiles are amazing brain scramblers. How many of your patients remember being extubated - even the ones who get extubated wide awake?? Most people don't remember the first 10-30mins of their PACU stay either despite being awake and conversant. Just a couple residual molecules of volatile floating around and it's still difficult to form memories.

I'm not advocating running all your pts super light, but I do think a lot of us routinely overdose people on volatile - especially the elderly pts. It's simply amazing how little it takes to prevent recall. I'd almost go so far as to say you would really have to try hard to get someone to have recall as long you've got some volatile going in the background.


Despite the anti-Bis bias here I use it on the elderly (80+ years old). I run 0.3 MAC volatile in this sub-group with BIS readings below 60 and have never had an issue. On a rare occasion one of these heavy drinkers (85-90 years old) does need 0.5 MAC volatile so the BIS helps with keeping the agent at a minimum.
 
0.3 MAC Sevo in the elderly is not a lot of volatile agent:

slide_46.jpg
 
We do ERAS only for colorectal. We have not had any LAST issues. I think your LA total doses are excessive and could well get you into LAST territory.

1) 0.5% ropi for a TAP? How about 0.2-0.25% ropi or 0.25% bupi with epi (my pref). We do 0.25% bupi with epi and always talk to the surgeon about how much 0.5% bupi with epi they can put into the lap port sites.
2) IF you do lido infusion intraop -- and why are you doing that for a laparoscopic case -- why so high of a dose? I notice the lido doing untoward things like acting like a SA nodal blocker at even 1 mg/kg/h intraop, I usually end up running no more than 40-50mg/hr in normal weight pts, and that's in an open case.

I use 0.375% Bupivacaine with Epi (plus dexamethasone, Buprenorphine) 20 mls per side for my TAP blocks. This results in a total of 150 mg of Bupivacaine.
If I am doing a 4 quadrant TAP block I use 0.25% Bup with Epi (plus adjuvants) for a total volume of 60-80 mls (150-200 mg). The Epi will SUBSTANTIALLY decrease the blood levels of the Bupivacaine.
 
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A&A Case Reports:
15 October 2014 - Volume 3 - Issue 8 - p 111–112

Letters to the Editor: Letter to the Editor
Epinephrine to Reduce Local Anesthetic Systemic Toxicity in Patients Receiving TAP Blocks
Lacassie, Hector J. MD; Corvetto, Marcia MD; Altermatt, Fernando MD, MSc




When performing blocks in an intermuscular plane, it is plausible to infer a large area of absorption. Actually, potentially neurotoxic mean peak venous concentrations have been described after TAP blocks, even with LA volumes and concentrations commonly used in clinical practice.3,4 Moreover, there is evidence that bilateral TAP blocks using 20 mL ropivacaine 0.5% on each side result in potentially toxic peak blood concentrations.5

The addition of vasoconstrictors to the anesthetic solution has proven to significantly decrease the absorption of LAs and their resulting plasma concentrations in both peripheral nerve blocks and neuraxial anesthesia.6,7

Specifically for TAP blocks, using a double-blind crossover study design, we recruited healthy volunteers to assess the plasma concentrations of LA after a unilateral TAP block, with or without epinephrine mixed with levobupivacaine. As expected, the LA concentrations in patients in whom epinephrine had been added were significantly less than in those without epinephrine with no difference in duration of action.8 American Society of Regional Anesthesia and Pain Medicine practice advisory recommendations9 do not specifically refer to patients receiving TAP blocks and, because they involve a large surface area leading to more rapid absorption and large dose especially with bilateral blocks, patients receiving TAP blocks may be particularly susceptible to LA systemic toxicity.

There is increasing evidence that TAP blocks are useful in this setting, because they reduce the mean 24-hour IV morphine consumption and 24-hour resting visual analog scale scores.10 Because of the potential to achieve toxic concentrations of LA with doses commonly used in clinical practice, it may be appropriate to routinely add epinephrine as an adjuvant when performing TAP blocks.

Hector J. Lacassie, MD

Marcia Corvetto, MD

Fernando Altermatt, MD, MSc

Anesthesiology Department

Facultad de Medicina

Pontificia Universidad Católica de Chile

Santiago, Chile

[email protected]
 
A&A Case Reports:
15 October 2014 - Volume 3 - Issue 8 - p 111–112

Letters to the Editor: Letter to the Editor
Epinephrine to Reduce Local Anesthetic Systemic Toxicity in Patients Receiving TAP Blocks
Lacassie, Hector J. MD; Corvetto, Marcia MD; Altermatt, Fernando MD, MSc

Interesting but a VERY incorrect article title. They didn't look at LAST at all. They simply looked at peak local serum concentrations and did not mention any cases of LAST in any of their patients. I've done a few hundred B/L TAP's with 20ml/side 0.5% bupi and have never had a LAST event. Anyone see one from a TAP block?
 
So let me be that guy...

There is no evidence showing local anesthetic around a nerve or in the epidural space is superior to an infusion for pain control, respiratory mechanics, etc.

Lido gtts are as good and sometimes better.

The infusion and the blocks both carry risk for LAST.
The infusion carries a 0% risk of epidural hematoma, neuropraxia, needle trauma, problems with using anticoagulants, infection risk, etc.

Why would you proceduralize someone when you could just use their IV?
 
So let me be that guy...

There is no evidence showing local anesthetic around a nerve or in the epidural space is superior to an infusion for pain control, respiratory mechanics, etc.
You could be that guy that supports a bold claim with some evidence...
 
My experience...

We do ERAS for multiple surgical populations at my institution. Routinely do 0.25% Ropi + Dex for TAP/RS blocks pre-op and run lido infusions 1-2mg/min intraop AND continue the lido infusions for 24hrs total post-op. On the floor. No true LAST events that I am aware of, although the first six months the overnight calls from nursing were unbearable.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Interesting but a VERY incorrect article title. They didn't look at LAST at all. They simply looked at peak local serum concentrations and did not mention any cases of LAST in any of their patients. I've done a few hundred B/L TAP's with 20ml/side 0.5% bupi and have never had a LAST event. Anyone see one from a TAP block?

Patients receiving TAP blocks may be particularly susceptible to LA systemic toxicity.



http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.910.6841&rep=rep1&type=pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22450529


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23454825
 
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My experience...

We do ERAS for multiple surgical populations at my institution. Routinely do 0.25% Ropi + Dex for TAP/RS blocks pre-op and run lido infusions 1-2mg/min intraop AND continue the lido infusions for 24hrs total post-op. On the floor. No true LAST events that I am aware of, although the first six months the overnight calls from nursing were unbearable.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Were you guys doing the blocks without lido before? Have you had markedly different pain scores / narcotic requirements?
 
Except that again, there is no evidence in those studies of actual LAST events. Sounds like you've done a lot of abdominal blocks. Have you ever had a LAST event with them? I never once used epi in my abdominal blocks and haven't had issues (knock on wood). Then again, I've never even heard of a LAST event from an abdominal block.

I see one case report of a LAST event with TAP blocks and that was with an extra 20ml of 0.75% ropi by the surgoen on top of 40ml of 0.75% ropi from the anesthesiologist for blocks. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25612088

Then again, 40ml of 0.75% ropi is pretty much toxic dose as it is unless you're at 100kg or more.

Suffice to say, within normal local anesthetic dosing, I've never heard of a LAST event from an abdominal block nor can I find any evidence in the literature.
 
Why? What benefice do you get out of this?

With the combination of pre-op blocks, pre-op Gaba/Tylenol, lido + ketamine infusions intraop, lido infusion post-op x24hrs, and post-op scheduled Gaba/Tylenol TID (+/- Toradol), I have seen patients have major abdominal operations and require zero perioperative opioids. Like no opioids intraop, and none post-op through to discharge. And they have them available PRN. Also, the implementation of these ERAS protocols has without a doubt (very robust IT/informatics branch of the department) shown to decrease rates of post-op ileus and decrease hospital LOS almost 1.5days

Now. This is a VERY labor intensive service. Two large teams of residents doing all the blocks and rounding on all the patients each day, plus two NPs and an attending per team. And it took a long time to get to where we are now, working efficiently. And it requires buy-in from surgeons, holding/PACU staff, and floor nursing.

As to whether or not any one single component (i.e. Lido intraop or post-op infusion) would make a significant difference if it were removed, I have no idea. But in terms of the entirety of the protocol there is no denying it is saving the hospital a boatload of money.


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Were you guys doing the blocks without lido before? Have you had markedly different pain scores / narcotic requirements?

Protocol was implemented en bloc. To be sure, we don't know if any one component could be done away with and still get the same results.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Except that again, there is no evidence in those studies of actual LAST events. Sounds like you've done a lot of abdominal blocks. Have you ever had a LAST event with them? I never once used epi in my abdominal blocks and haven't had issues (knock on wood). Then again, I've never even heard of a LAST event from an abdominal block.

I see one case report of a LAST event with TAP blocks and that was with an extra 20ml of 0.75% ropi by the surgoen on top of 40ml of 0.75% ropi from the anesthesiologist for blocks. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25612088

Then again, 40ml of 0.75% ropi is pretty much toxic dose as it is unless you're at 100kg or more.

Suffice to say, within normal local anesthetic dosing, I've never heard of a LAST event from an abdominal block nor can I find any evidence in the literature.

For smaller patients I typically add the Epi to provide a margin of safety. I see no reason NOT to add the Epi and failure to do so when the Ropivacaine meets or exceeds 3 mg/kg (total dosage) is bad medical practice.

Editorial Comment: Cardiac Arrest from Local Anesthetic Toxicity After a Field Block and Transversus Abdominis Plane Block: A Consequence of Miscommunication Between the Anesthesiologist and Surgeon AND Probable Local Anesthetic Systemic Toxicity in a Postpartum Patient with Acute Fatty Liver of Pregnancy After a Transversus Abdominis Plane Block

http://journals.lww.com/aacr/Fullte...al_Comment___Cardiac_Arrest_from_Local.5.aspx

These recent studies3,5 suggest that local anesthetic absorption from the TAP is significant, and even the use of “usual” doses can result in plasma levels which approach or exceed levels at which mild LAST is observed in some individuals. The risk for toxicity may be greater in women or those of small stature. The case reports confirm that the safety margin is low.
 
Masui. 2010 Dec;59(12):1502-5.
[Ropivacaine-induced late-onset systemic toxicity after transversus abdominis plane block under general anesthesia: successful reversal with 20% lipid emulsion].
[Article in Japanese]
Sakai T1, Manabe W, Kamitani T, Takeyama E, Nakano S.
Author information

Abstract
We report a case of late-onset systemic toxicity due to ropivacaine over dose, and its successful reversal with 20% lipid emulsion (20% Intralipos). A 40-year-old woman, 40 kg, ASA-I, was scheduled for laparoscopy-assisted myomectomy of the uterus in which 40 ml of 0.375% ropivacaine was injected for bilateral US guided transversus abdominis plane block (TAPblock) under general anesthesia. Anesthesia proceeded uneventfully and she could go back to the ward 15 min later, but 3 hours after TAPblock, her blood pressure dropped to seventies and she became unresponsive. She also displayed clonic seizure/twitching of limbs. Immediately after diazepam 2 mg injection, clonic seizure disappeared and she could obey verbal commands. Within a few minutes clonic seizure was noted again, and she was hypotensive despite administration of vasopressors. A presumptive diagnosis of local anesthetic toxicity was made, and she received 100 ml bolus of 20% Intralipos. She regained consciousness with spontaneous return of blood pressure. She received a total of 230 ml 20% Intralipos, which was discontinued due to her rapid emergence with no further seizure episodes. This case suggests that early and sufficient use of lipid emulsion may lead to a good outcome. We recommend the
 
You could be that guy that supports a bold claim with some evidence...

Nah, then I'd be Blade. But okay.

Reg Anesth Pain Med. 2011 May-Jun;36(3):241-8. doi: 10.1097/AAP.0b013e31820d4362.
Intravenous lidocaine versus thoracic epidural analgesia: a randomized controlled trial in patients undergoing laparoscopic colorectal surgery using an enhanced recovery program.
Wongyingsinn M1, Baldini G, Charlebois P, Liberman S, Stein B, Carli F.
  • 1Departments of Anesthesia and Surgery, McGill University Health Centre, Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [email protected]
Abstract
BACKGROUND AND OBJECTIVE:
Laparoscopy, thoracic epidural analgesia, and enhanced recovery program (ERP) have been shown to be the major elements to facilitate the postoperative recovery strategy in open colorectal surgery. This study compared the effect of intraoperative and postoperative intravenous (IV) lidocaine infusion with thoracic epidural analgesia on postoperative restoration of bowel function in patients undergoing laparoscopic colorectal resection using an ERP.

METHODS:
Sixty patients scheduled for elective laparoscopic colorectal surgery were prospectively randomized to receive either thoracic epidural analgesia (TEA group) or IV lidocaine infusion (IL group) (1 mg/kg per hour) with patient-controlled analgesia morphine for the first 48 hours after surgery. All patients received a similar ERP. The primary outcome was time to return of bowel function. Postoperative pain intensity, time out of bed, dietary intake, duration of hospital stay, and postoperative complications were also recorded.

RESULTS:
Mean times and SD (95% confidence interval) to first flatus (TEA, 24 [SD, 11] [19-29] hrs vs IL, 27 [SD, 12] [22-32] hrs) and to bowel movements (TEA, 44 ±19 [35-52] hrs vs IL, 43 [SD, 20] [34-51] hrs) were similar in both groups (P = 0.887). Thoracic epidural analgesia provided better analgesia in patients undergoing rectal surgery. Time out of bed and dietary intake were similar. Patients in the TEA and IL groups were discharged on median day 3 (interquartile range, 3-4 days), P = 0.744. Sixty percent of patients in both groups left the hospital on day 3.

CONCLUSIONS:
Intraoperative and postoperative IV infusion of lidocaine in patients undergoing laparoscopic colorectal resection using an ERP had a similar impact on bowel function compared with thoracic epidural analgesia.

Intravenous Lidocaine Is as Effective as Epidural Bupivacaine in Reducing Ileus Duration, Hospital Stay, and Pain After Open Colon Resection: A Randomized Clinical Trial
Swenson, Brian R. MD, MS*; Gottschalk, Antje MD†; Wells, Lynda T. MBBS†; Rowlingson, John C. MD†; Thompson, Peter W. MS‡; Barclay, Margaret ACNP*; Sawyer, Robert G. MD*§; Friel, Charles M. MD*; Foley, Eugene MD, FASCRS*; Durieux, Marcel E. MD, PhD†
Author Information
From the Departments of *Surgery and †Anesthesiology, University of Virginia Health System; ‡School of Medicine, University of Virginia; and §Department of Health Evaluation Sciences, University of Virginia Health System, Charlottesville, VA.
Accepted for publication November 13, 2009.
Address correspondence to: Marcel E. Durieux, MD, PhD, Department of Anesthesiology, PO Box 800710, Charlottesville, VA 22908-0710 (e-mail: [email protected]).
This clinical trial has been registered with the US National Institutes of Health, ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT00600158.

Abstract
Background: Both postoperative epidural analgesia and intravenous (IV) infusion of local anesthetic have been shown to shorten ileus duration and hospital stay after colon surgery when compared with the use of systemic narcotics alone. However, they have not been compared directly with each other.

Methods: Prospective, randomized clinical trial was conducted comparing the 2 treatments in open colon surgery patients. Before induction of general anesthesia, patients were randomized either to epidural analgesia (bupivacaine 0.125% and hydromorphone 6 µg/mL were started at 10 mL/hr within 1 hr of the end of surgery) or IV lidocaine (1 mg/min in patients <70 kg, 2 mg/min in patients >=70 kg). Markers of return of bowel function, length of stay, postoperative pain scores, systemic analgesic requirements, and adverse events were recorded and compared between the 2 groups in an intent-to-treat analysis.

Results: Study enrollment took place from April 2005 to July 2006. Twenty-two patients were randomized to IV lidocaine therapy and 20 patients to epidural therapy. No statistically significant differences were found between groups in time to return of bowel function or hospital length of stay. The median pain score difference was not statistically significant. No statistically significant differences were found in pain scores for any specific postoperative day or in analgesic consumption.

Conclusions: No differences were observed between groups in terms of return of bowel function, duration of hospital stay, and postoperative pain control, suggesting that IV infusion of local anesthetic may be an effective alternative to epidural therapy in patients in whom epidural anesthesia is contraindicated or not desired.
 
Nah, then I'd be Blade. But okay.

Reg Anesth Pain Med. 2011 May-Jun;36(3):241-8. doi: 10.1097/AAP.0b013e31820d4362.
Intravenous lidocaine versus thoracic epidural analgesia: a randomized controlled trial in patients undergoing laparoscopic colorectal surgery using an enhanced recovery program.
Wongyingsinn M1, Baldini G, Charlebois P, Liberman S, Stein B, Carli F.
  • 1Departments of Anesthesia and Surgery, McGill University Health Centre, Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [email protected]
Abstract
BACKGROUND AND OBJECTIVE:
Laparoscopy, thoracic epidural analgesia, and enhanced recovery program (ERP) have been shown to be the major elements to facilitate the postoperative recovery strategy in open colorectal surgery. This study compared the effect of intraoperative and postoperative intravenous (IV) lidocaine infusion with thoracic epidural analgesia on postoperative restoration of bowel function in patients undergoing laparoscopic colorectal resection using an ERP.

METHODS:
Sixty patients scheduled for elective laparoscopic colorectal surgery were prospectively randomized to receive either thoracic epidural analgesia (TEA group) or IV lidocaine infusion (IL group) (1 mg/kg per hour) with patient-controlled analgesia morphine for the first 48 hours after surgery. All patients received a similar ERP. The primary outcome was time to return of bowel function. Postoperative pain intensity, time out of bed, dietary intake, duration of hospital stay, and postoperative complications were also recorded.

RESULTS:
Mean times and SD (95% confidence interval) to first flatus (TEA, 24 [SD, 11] [19-29] hrs vs IL, 27 [SD, 12] [22-32] hrs) and to bowel movements (TEA, 44 ±19 [35-52] hrs vs IL, 43 [SD, 20] [34-51] hrs) were similar in both groups (P = 0.887). Thoracic epidural analgesia provided better analgesia in patients undergoing rectal surgery. Time out of bed and dietary intake were similar. Patients in the TEA and IL groups were discharged on median day 3 (interquartile range, 3-4 days), P = 0.744. Sixty percent of patients in both groups left the hospital on day 3.

CONCLUSIONS:
Intraoperative and postoperative IV infusion of lidocaine in patients undergoing laparoscopic colorectal resection using an ERP had a similar impact on bowel function compared with thoracic epidural analgesia.

Intravenous Lidocaine Is as Effective as Epidural Bupivacaine in Reducing Ileus Duration, Hospital Stay, and Pain After Open Colon Resection: A Randomized Clinical Trial
Swenson, Brian R. MD, MS*; Gottschalk, Antje MD†; Wells, Lynda T. MBBS†; Rowlingson, John C. MD†; Thompson, Peter W. MS‡; Barclay, Margaret ACNP*; Sawyer, Robert G. MD*§; Friel, Charles M. MD*; Foley, Eugene MD, FASCRS*; Durieux, Marcel E. MD, PhD†
Author Information
From the Departments of *Surgery and †Anesthesiology, University of Virginia Health System; ‡School of Medicine, University of Virginia; and §Department of Health Evaluation Sciences, University of Virginia Health System, Charlottesville, VA.
Accepted for publication November 13, 2009.
Address correspondence to: Marcel E. Durieux, MD, PhD, Department of Anesthesiology, PO Box 800710, Charlottesville, VA 22908-0710 (e-mail: [email protected]).
This clinical trial has been registered with the US National Institutes of Health, ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT00600158.

Abstract
Background: Both postoperative epidural analgesia and intravenous (IV) infusion of local anesthetic have been shown to shorten ileus duration and hospital stay after colon surgery when compared with the use of systemic narcotics alone. However, they have not been compared directly with each other.

Methods: Prospective, randomized clinical trial was conducted comparing the 2 treatments in open colon surgery patients. Before induction of general anesthesia, patients were randomized either to epidural analgesia (bupivacaine 0.125% and hydromorphone 6 µg/mL were started at 10 mL/hr within 1 hr of the end of surgery) or IV lidocaine (1 mg/min in patients <70 kg, 2 mg/min in patients >=70 kg). Markers of return of bowel function, length of stay, postoperative pain scores, systemic analgesic requirements, and adverse events were recorded and compared between the 2 groups in an intent-to-treat analysis.

Results: Study enrollment took place from April 2005 to July 2006. Twenty-two patients were randomized to IV lidocaine therapy and 20 patients to epidural therapy. No statistically significant differences were found between groups in time to return of bowel function or hospital length of stay. The median pain score difference was not statistically significant. No statistically significant differences were found in pain scores for any specific postoperative day or in analgesic consumption.

Conclusions: No differences were observed between groups in terms of return of bowel function, duration of hospital stay, and postoperative pain control, suggesting that IV infusion of local anesthetic may be an effective alternative to epidural therapy in patients in whom epidural anesthesia is contraindicated or not desired.

What is the mechanism of action of IV lidocaine? The first study is flawed for a number of reasons.. Epidurals for lap cases? Who does that... The second study is more to the point but underpowered and clouded by the addition of other systemic analgesics. If you had an open surgery would you want lidocaine IV or epidural? narcotic goes in the veins and local anesthetic goes on the nerves..
 
Masui. 2010 Dec;59(12):1502-5.
[Ropivacaine-induced late-onset systemic toxicity after transversus abdominis plane block under general anesthesia: successful reversal with 20% lipid emulsion].
[Article in Japanese]
Sakai T1, Manabe W, Kamitani T, Takeyama E, Nakano S.
Author information

Abstract
We report a case of late-onset systemic toxicity due to ropivacaine over dose, and its successful reversal with 20% lipid emulsion (20% Intralipos). A 40-year-old woman, 40 kg, ASA-I, was scheduled for laparoscopy-assisted myomectomy of the uterus in which 40 ml of 0.375% ropivacaine was injected for bilateral US guided transversus abdominis plane block (TAPblock) under general anesthesia. Anesthesia proceeded uneventfully and she could go back to the ward 15 min later, but 3 hours after TAPblock, her blood pressure dropped to seventies and she became unresponsive. She also displayed clonic seizure/twitching of limbs. Immediately after diazepam 2 mg injection, clonic seizure disappeared and she could obey verbal commands. Within a few minutes clonic seizure was noted again, and she was hypotensive despite administration of vasopressors. A presumptive diagnosis of local anesthetic toxicity was made, and she received 100 ml bolus of 20% Intralipos. She regained consciousness with spontaneous return of blood pressure. She received a total of 230 ml 20% Intralipos, which was discontinued due to her rapid emergence with no further seizure episodes. This case suggests that early and sufficient use of lipid emulsion may lead to a good outcome. We recommend the

My PD always said, never publish your f-ups. Who gives 40ml of . 375ropi to a 40kg pt? That's toxic dosing! Again, I'm not against putting whatever you want in your block. I'm just saying it's not necessary if you stay inside normal dosing. And putting epi in and then going way over dosing wouldn't save you at all in court. Just sayin...
 
[QUOTE="NightNight, post: 18487744, member: 504345".]

As to whether or not any one single component (i.e. Lido intraop or post-op infusion) would make a significant difference if it were removed, I have no idea. But in terms of the entirety of the protocol there is no denying it is saving the hospital a boatload of money.


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I just do TAP blocks and the patient might need a tramadol or 5-10mg po morphine and save myself the headache.
As you say: very labor intensive just to save 10mg of morphine at best.
 
[QUOTE="NightNight, post: 18487744, member: 504345".]

As to whether or not any one single component (i.e. Lido intraop or post-op infusion) would make a significant difference if it were removed, I have no idea. But in terms of the entirety of the protocol there is no denying it is saving the hospital a boatload of money.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
I just do TAP blocks and the patient might need a tramadol or 5-10mg po morphine and save myself the headache.
As you say: very labor intensive just to save 10mg of morphine at best.[/QUOTE]

Agree. Not my baby so I'm not invested in convincing people it's the final answer. Just giving my anecdotal experience, and the resulting decrease in hospital LOS (really the best way a group can show value to hospital admin).


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What is the mechanism of action of IV lidocaine? The first study is flawed for a number of reasons.. Epidurals for lap cases? Who does that... The second study is more to the point but underpowered and clouded by the addition of other systemic analgesics. If you had an open surgery would you want lidocaine IV or epidural? narcotic goes in the veins and local anesthetic goes on the nerves..

Sure, takes a lot of retraining to get over the idea of putting local anesthetic into the blood vessels. They do a lot of lidocaine, ketamine, etc at the current ivory tower and it does seem to keep folks happy. The lidocaine gtt works while you're using it http://www.cochrane.org/CD009642/AN...reduction-pain-and-improvement-recovery-after

I'm not sure if we've got a lot of good mechanisms of action for IV lidocaine, as in no different than volatile anesthetics. It blocks channels and other ****! Low doses of lidocaine are likely blocking nociceptor signaling, as it will hit the DRG where the cell body of the peripheral sensory neurons reside, and those neurons are more sensitive. There may be supratentorial effects. It obviously decreases MAC when given as a bolus and causes anxiety/seizures/etc, so my suspicion is that it may be hitting some of the pain processing areas in the CNS.

I love needling stuff more than most, but I opt for IV lidocaine in folks that will likely have more diffuse pain, are difficult placements, need anticoagulation rapidly, or are infection risks. If I'm having open surgery, I'd pick lidocaine + ketamine + APAP + /- NSAIDs.

It's really a risk/benefit discussion. From the risk side, would you prefer to be paralyzed for life or have slightly worse pain? Would you prefer silent DVTs that lead to PEs or the anxious/tingly lipped patients who will seize/arrest if you don't realize it? From the administrative side, would you rather manage 100 epidural catheters with specialized connectors/pumps or a 100 IV infusions?

I suspect in 5 - 10 years, we'll be doing much fewer epidurals and catheters for inpatient patients.
 
I suspect in 5 - 10 years, we'll be doing much fewer epidurals and catheters for inpatient patients.
Sure, when lido infusions percent dvt and pe and decrease ebl, let me know and I'll stop doing epidurals.
 
But in terms of the entirety of the protocol there is no denying it is saving the hospital a boatload of money.

The only reason the hospital is able to save a penny on this

VERY labor intensive service

is because it has an army of free labor in the form of residents. Try this at a private hospital where people actually expect to get paid for the work they are doing and the hospital would be hemorrhaging money in personnel costs in order to save on that one hospital day LOS.

I think it's cool that this has been a success at your institution but it's just not practical in most settings. I think it's potentially dangerous when all the services - especially floor nursing are not on the same page.
 
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