Logistically, how do schools just “get better” over a short period of time?

[MDapplicant578124]

This is mostly in regards to the infamous NYU jump, I’m wondering what the school did to improve their quality so much so fast, and why other schools can’t do the same?
I don’t want this to become a debate on whether NYU deserves to be in the Top 10, I’m curious on the actual logistics of how the school went from being #30 and overshadowed by Columbia/Cornell to a powerhouse of their own. Yet, schools like Boston University have been stuck at around 30 forever. What happened within NYU that can’t be done at other schools to allow them massive vertical movement? Was NYU just under ranked previously? Or was it legitimately equal to somewhere like BU and somehow managed to vault themselves to the top.

Note: I only chose BU as an example, but the question can be applied to any school that used to be ranked similarly with NYU

 

[drducky.]

Free tuition. /thread

 

[MDapplicant578124]

Free tuition. /thread

If I’m not mistaken, they made their jump prior to the donation that led to free tuition didn’t they?

Free tuition may be keeping them in the top 10, but how did they go from 35 to 10 in like 5 years?

 

[Goro]

This is mostly in regards to the infamous NYU jump, I’m wondering what the school did to improve their quality so much so fast, and why other schools can’t do the same?
I don’t want this to become a debate on whether NYU deserves to be in the Top 10, I’m curious on the actual logistics of how the school went from being #30 and overshadowed by Columbia/Cornell to a powerhouse of their own. Yet, schools like Boston University have been stuck at around 30 forever. What happened within NYU that can’t be done at other schools to allow them massive vertical movement? Was NYU just under ranked previously? Or was it legitimately equal to somewhere like BU and somehow managed to vault themselves to the top.

Note: I only chose BU as an example, but the question can be applied to any school that used to be ranked similarly with NYU

Usually it's when a (new) Dean decides upon a particular mission.

 

[deleted947265]

I think your question presupposes that US News rankings mean anything. It's just going to be how those schools change to adapt to improve by whatever metrics US News uses to determine their ranking. I'm going to assume they jumped in ranking because free tuition, but I don't know how US News determines their rankings. Ultimately if you think a school jumped significantly in quality, it's going to be because that schools leadership chose to implement changes that you think are an improvement.

 

[deleted1044561]

This is a good question as accepting top students shouldn't necessarily rank the school higher. I think acquiring renowned researchers via higher salaries/incentives than other institutions would significantly help.

 

[Med Ed]

but I don't know how US News determines their rankings.

2021 Methodology for research ranking:

15% peer assessment score (based on a survey with a 30% response rate)
15% assessment score by residency directors
25% total NIH grants
15% average NIH awards per faculty
13% median MCAT score
6% median undergraduate GPA
1% acceptance rate
10% ratio of full-time faculty to MD/DO students

If you think this formula is an inherently flawed way to determine the relative quality of medical schools you aren't alone.

 

[deleted947265]

If you think this formula is an inherently flawed way to determine the relative quality of medical schools you aren't alone.

I mean... I kinda figured it was whack but I never actually looked into it. I don't know how anyone could think that any of that is a good idea.

 

[Goro]

I mean... I kinda figured it was whack but I never actually looked into it. I don't know how anyone could think that any of that is a good idea.

The only people who care about these rankings are premeds and med school Deans.

 

[longhaul3]

NYU Langone Medical Center to Get $1.13 Billion in Storm Aid (Published 2014)

The award will be used to restore damaged buildings and to protect the medical center, which is by the East River, from future flooding.

www.nytimes.com

NYU got a powerball-sized relief package from FEMA following Sandy and used it to build incredible new facilities and poach a bunch of high-profile faculty. It was always a bigger name than BU, etc., but it turned into a world-class medical center overnight.

Whatever you think of the jump in rankings for the med school, the medical center definitely has the substance to back it up right now. They have pretty great departments across the board.

 

[MDapplicant578124]

2021 Methodology for research ranking:

15% peer assessment score (based on a survey with a 30% response rate)
15% assessment score by residency directors
25% total NIH grants
15% average NIH awards per faculty
13% median MCAT score
6% median undergraduate GPA
1% acceptance rate
10% ratio of full-time faculty to MD/DO students

If you think this formula is an inherently flawed way to determine the relative quality of medical schools you aren't alone.

I mean... I kinda figured it was whack but I never actually looked into it. I don't know how anyone could think that any of that is a good idea.

I (as a lowly premed) agree that the methods of any rank are going to have inherent flaws. But can anyone deny the general trend of US News has some level of value? People say all the time that the ranks have 0 meaning, but would those same people recommend going to a school ranked between 60-70 vs a school ranked 1-10 assuming price/ location preference and everything else is equal? Are the schools between 1-10 truly equal in opportunity for med students research and residency prospects as schools between 60-70?

This isn’t meant as a challenge but a genuine question as I’m currently in the situation where I have to decide between schools in those ranking cohorts. Most of the premeds on sdn would suggest prestige over anything, but it would be nice to have the input of actual physicians. Is going to a school ranked between 1-10 going to offer significant advantages or is that just an idea perpetuated by people who love prestige?

 

[MDapplicant578124]

NYU Langone Medical Center to Get $1.13 Billion in Storm Aid (Published 2014)

The award will be used to restore damaged buildings and to protect the medical center, which is by the East River, from future flooding.

www.nytimes.com

NYU got a powerball-sized relief package from FEMA following Sandy and used it to build incredible new facilities and poach a bunch of high-profile faculty. It was always a bigger name than BU, etc., but it turned into a world-class medical center overnight.

Whatever you think of the jump in rankings for the med school, the medical center definitely has the substance to back it up right now. They have pretty great departments across the board.

This makes a lot of sense, thank you!

 

[gonnif]

The only people who care about these rankings are premeds and med school Deans.

And the associated health systems CEO and marketing types

 

[Med Ed]

NYU Langone Medical Center to Get $1.13 Billion in Storm Aid (Published 2014)

The award will be used to restore damaged buildings and to protect the medical center, which is by the East River, from future flooding.

www.nytimes.com

NYU got a powerball-sized relief package from FEMA following Sandy and used it to build incredible new facilities and poach a bunch of high-profile faculty. It was always a bigger name than BU, etc., but it turned into a world-class medical center overnight.

Whatever you think of the jump in rankings for the med school, the medical center definitely has the substance to back it up right now. They have pretty great departments across the board.

NIH awards by year:

Boston University Medical Campus
2009 - $129 million
2019 - $169 million (+31%)

Columbia University Health Sciences
2009 - $284 million
2019 - $478 million (+68%)

New York University School of Medicine
2009 - $129 million
2019 - $314 million (+143%)

 

[Med Ed]

I (as a lowly premed) agree that the methods of any rank are going to have inherent flaws. But can anyone deny the general trend of US News has some level of value? People say all the time that the ranks have 0 meaning, but would those same people recommend going to a school ranked between 60-70 vs a school ranked 1-10 assuming price/ location preference and everything else is equal? Are the schools between 1-10 truly equal in opportunity for med students research and residency prospects as schools between 60-70?

This isn’t meant as a challenge but a genuine question as I’m currently in the situation where I have to decide between schools in those ranking cohorts. Most of the premeds on sdn would suggest prestige over anything, but it would be nice to have the input of actual physicians. Is going to a school ranked between 1-10 going to offer significant advantages or is that just an idea perpetuated by people who love prestige?

The effect of medical school rank/prestige on residency prospects is one of the oldest debates on SDN, and I've been coming here since 2000.

I picked a school in the 60-70 range (Nebraska) and looked up its NIH funding last year: $84,896,726 from 182 awards. So I'll turn the question around: do you think a medical student at the University of Nebraska Medical Center will have trouble finding a high quality, well-funded laboratory in which to do research when there are 182 awards worth almost $85 million?

Also, do you think you will have more or less competition from your classmates to land coveted research positions at the 1-10 versus the 60-70?

Ultimately, how much rankings matter depends on the goals of the premed making the decision. Want to be the youngest chair of cardiothoracic surgery on the eastern seaboard? Probably better off going top 10. Want to match into something competitive but live and practice in Omaha? Nebraska has everything you could want. There is no one-size-fits-all prescription.

 

[deleted947265]

The effect of medical school rank/prestige on residency prospects is one of the oldest debates on SDN, and I've been coming here since 2000.

I think a lot of debates on SDN would settle themselves if people found a more healthy outlet to acquire a false sense of superiority.

 

[MDapplicant578124]

The effect of medical school rank/prestige on residency prospects is one of the oldest debates on SDN, and I've been coming here since 2000.

I picked a school in the 60-70 range (Nebraska) and looked up its NIH funding last year: $84,896,726 from 182 awards. So I'll turn the question around: do you think a medical student at the University of Nebraska Medical Center will have trouble finding a high quality, well-funded laboratory in which to do research when there are 182 awards worth almost $85 million?

Also, do you think you will have more or less competition from your classmates to land coveted research positions at the 1-10 versus the 60-70?

Ultimately, how much rankings matter depends on the goals of the premed making the decision. Want to be the youngest chair of cardiothoracic surgery on the eastern seaboard? Probably better off going top 10. Want to match into something competitive but live and practice in Omaha? Nebraska has everything you could want. There is no one-size-fits-all prescription.

Thank you for this reply, I appreciate the advice