Longevity Question...

[anothercaliapp]

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I am a non-trad that will be starting med school in the fall. Am leaning towards EM but know that people frequently change their minds in school. Longevity of practice is an issue for me since I will be in my mid 40's when I am done with a potential 3-5 year residency.

Questions specific for anesthesia:

1. Will my age be an issue for potential employers once I am done with residency? Do you think practice groups would have reservations about hiring someone my age? If so, how much.

2. Is anesthesia something I can practice well into by 60's and even 70's?

3. I am thinking about joining the national guard/reserves. It will help with tuition but serving is something that I have always wanted to do. Would employers be hesitant to hire someone with military reserve obligations? Any anecdotes from people who serve on a reserve basis and practice anesthesia on this issue?

Thanks!

 

[PMPMD]

A guy in my class (CA-3) is in his mid-late 40s. He signed with a private group, and as far as I know, had no problems related to his age. There are certainly faculty at my program in their 60s and a few in their 70s.

 

[kmurp]

Not a problem for our group. We offfered a guy just like you a few years ago. Was formerly a teacher. Nice guy. He took a job elsewhere. I imagine there will be some groups who would balk, but many more who would not.

 

[Jay K]

1. Will my age be an issue for potential employers once I am done with residency?

Not for our group. It's more important that you are first well-qualified and second interested in promoting and investing in the interests of the group (solely being a worker bee is less desirable).

Do you think practice groups would have reservations about hiring someone my age? If so, how much.

No.

2. Is anesthesia something I can practice well into my 60's and even 70's?

Yes, I have multiple partners in their 60's, albeit not working full time but still taking call. Some have remarked that they could continue well into their 70s if call was not involved.

3. Would employers be hesitant to hire someone with military reserve obligations?

Possibly. If you were called up, that would create a short-notice hardship for the group and additional expense in the form of locums coverage. Additionally, the group cannot always control the quality of locums help contracted. Depends on the practice type and size.

 

[anothercaliapp]

Thank you for your informative responses, everyone.

 

[doctor712]

I'm your age-ish OP, and I have received the same input from peeps at work (academic hospital). Very supportive of our advanced age. As long as we perform in med school, with grades, USMLE, all that stuff, people seem to say we'll be ok. Of course, I have doubts and always think my friends are feeding me BS and what I want to hear, however, I've asked some tough shooting pals on here and at home and given them every out to say I'll forever be unemployable -- just doesn't seem to be the case.

The only age-related thing I ever heard, was from a PD that I was dealing with at another place on a separate matter, and I asked him about my age and he replied, "Yes, I may have an issue with matching you because of call competency." You know, I guess he was saying, and said, directly, that we won't be able to swing the 24 hour shift like our 28 year old brethren.

Fair enough. I won't apply to that program. Oh well.

I posted that comment back here a while back, can't find the thread at the moment, but aside from that one dude, who was pretty rebuked here by posters within that thread, we should be ok.

I've asked the current PD I work with daily, and he said I shouldn't even worry two seconds about my age and matching or getting hired. If a group/hospital doesn't want me, I'll find another.

D712

 

[aneftp]

I don't know about your guys, (and I come from a long line of anesthesiologists in the family with friends who are anesthesiologists also). But anesthesiology as a field has a very high burn out rate.

What I mean by this is for those of you working 60 hour per week private practice jobs. You can only work at that level for about 10-15 years before you

1. get burned out and leave the field (like my brother in law did after almost 10 years) who just left anesthesia all together. Left his $500K a year job and took a $200K consulting job. And he doesn't even turn age 40 until later this year.

2. have a mid life crisis, have an affair/divorce etc. See perspective in your life, take massive time off and than get back into anesthesiology but either as low key clinical staff working with residents or working outpatient.

3. Get an administrator job in a hospital (but this as easy as it sounds). Takes about another 10 years to get up there in administration.

4. Work part time at a easy outpatient center.

You gotta pace yourself in anesthesia. Even my buddy in Dallas is starting to get burned out after 6 years. He's cutting back on call, making less money but is overall happier. My sister gives up a lot of her calls. The other partners in her group make $600K and up working like dogs while she makes $350K but takes at least 8 weeks off and does very little weekend calls any more.

As for myself, I've been out for almost 7 years now. I really don't know how much I can pace myself. I worked like a dog the first 3 years (55-60 plus hours a week; left the practice, did locums for 2 years (worked like a dog than too) and have been doing outpatient for the past 2 years. I'm trying to find some middle ground.

 

[hivoltage]

I don't know about your guys, (and I come from a long line of anesthesiologists in the family with friends who are anesthesiologists also). But anesthesiology as a field has a very high burn out rate.

What I mean by this is for those of you working 60 hour per week private practice jobs. You can only work at that level for about 10-15 years before you

1. get burned out and leave the field (like my brother in law did after almost 10 years) who just left anesthesia all together. Left his $500K a year job and took a $200K consulting job. And he doesn't even turn age 40 until later this year.

2. have a mid life crisis, have an affair/divorce etc. See perspective in your life, take massive time off and than get back into anesthesiology but either as low key clinical staff working with residents or working outpatient.

3. Get an administrator job in a hospital (but this as easy as it sounds). Takes about another 10 years to get up there in administration.

4. Work part time at a easy outpatient center.

You gotta pace yourself in anesthesia. Even my buddy in Dallas is starting to get burned out after 6 years. He's cutting back on call, making less money but is overall happier. My sister gives up a lot of her calls. The other partners in her group make $600K and up working like dogs while she makes $350K but takes at least 8 weeks off and does very little weekend calls any more.

As for myself, I've been out for almost 7 years now. I really don't know how much I can pace myself. I worked like a dog the first 3 years (55-60 plus hours a week; left the practice, did locums for 2 years (worked like a dog than too) and have been doing outpatient for the past 2 years. I'm trying to find some middle ground.

One thing I dont like is when people answer questions that they arent qualified yet to form a sound opinion. You my friend are not one of these..

This is very spot on. After doing Anesthesia full time for 5-10 years at a moderately busy place.. BUrn out is likely. Its dangerous because it can lead to depression, suicide, homicide, narcotic abuse. And even more dangerous is not being paid what you deserve while busting you rass.

Your post is right on the money my friend.

 

[ComfortableWolf]

One thing I dont like is when people answer questions that they arent qualified yet to form a sound opinion. You my friend are not one of these..

This is very spot on. After doing Anesthesia full time for 5-10 years at a moderately busy place.. BUrn out is likely. Its dangerous because it can lead to depression, suicide, homicide, narcotic abuse. And even more dangerous is not being paid what you deserve while busting you rass.

Your post is right on the money my friend.

Do you think burnout in anesthesia is higher than in the rest of the medical world? It seems to me that there are options to reduce your work load In anesthesia that may not be available in other specialties if needed like in the above example where the person took a pay cut 650,000 to 350,00 to work less hours and take less call (350 is still more than many Gen Surgeons make working full time)
The specialty also seems to lend itself to flexibility in the sense that there is no practice to build (unless you want to) so like a hospitalist internal med doc or trauma surgeon you could adjust location Job more easily than if you were forced to build a referral base or brick and mortar practice.

Are my perceptions incorrect?

 

[Jay K]

Your questions

Do you think burnout in anesthesia is higher than in the rest of the medical world?

It's one of the few specialties where if you wanted to work ALL the time, almost 24/7, it's quite possible. Additionally, much of the work can be high-stress most of the time.

The specialty also seems to lend itself to flexibility... Are my perceptions incorrect?

As you inferred, a lot of that burnout can be self-inflicted. Accumulation of wealth can be a strong motivator and/or complicated by a relative inability/non-desire to balance work/life.

 

[hivoltage]

Do you think burnout in anesthesia is higher than in the rest of the medical world? It seems to me that there are options to reduce your work load In anesthesia that may not be available in other specialties if needed like in the above example where the person took a pay cut 650,000 to 350,00 to work less hours and take less call (350 is still more than many Gen Surgeons make working full time)
The specialty also seems to lend itself to flexibility in the sense that there is no practice to build (unless you want to) so like a hospitalist internal med doc or trauma surgeon you could adjust location Job more easily than if you were forced to build a referral base or brick and mortar practice.

Are my perceptions incorrect?

your perceptions are incorrect.

If you are an ent surgeon and only want to operate 2 days a week take wednesdays off and chill.. go ahead.. NOBODY will tell you you cant do that. Unless you have partners and you have to clear it with them. If you are solo.. DO what you want.. I know a podiatrist who takes a lot of time off. but your pay suffers. your schedule can vary with whatever is going on in your life at the present time
In anesthesia, this is not possible. If you havea fulltime job. the hospital, groups is counting on you being FULLTIME which means, getting up early staying 8-11 hours per day, taking call.. all that. You cant just say. well i need to slow down for the next 6 months because im taking care of my sick mother or something. just doesnt work like that. You are correct that you probably can find a job working two days a week but you will search long and hard. Anesthesia is the least flexible specialty thats where the perceptions are wrong

 

[nimbus]

your perceptions are incorrect.

If you are an ent surgeon and only want to operate 2 days a week take wednesdays off and chill.. go ahead.. NOBODY will tell you you cant do that. Unless you have partners and you have to clear it with them. If you are solo.. DO what you want.. I know a podiatrist who takes a lot of time off. but your pay suffers. your schedule can vary with whatever is going on in your life at the present time
In anesthesia, this is not possible. If you havea fulltime job. the hospital, groups is counting on you being FULLTIME which means, getting up early staying 8-11 hours per day, taking call.. all that. You cant just say. well i need to slow down for the next 6 months because im taking care of my sick mother or something. just doesnt work like that. You are correct that you probably can find a job working two days a week but you will search long and hard. Anesthesia is the least flexible specialty thats where the perceptions are wrong

Depends on your practice. I am in very large group(200 docs) and I have multiple partners who job share...3-2 or 2-1 FTEs. Mostly women with family commitments. They arrange it amongst themselves and it has no impact on the rest of us. The part timers honor their commitments and do a great job when they are working. We value them. Just shining a light on actual real life possibilities. Anesthesia can be very flexible.

 

[ComfortableWolf]

Depends on your practice. I am in very large group(200 docs) and I have multiple partners who job share...3-2 or 2-1 FTEs. Mostly women with family commitments. They arrange it amongst themselves and it has no impact on the rest of us. The part timers honor their commitments and do a great job when they are working. We value them. Just shining a light on actual real life possibilities. Anesthesia can be very flexible.

I guess this is what I have generally heard... Anything from "mommy track" to q3 hard core cardiac anesthesia to CCM to a pain practice.

There seems to be such varying opinions about the flexibility and career options in anesthesia from the optimistic to the cynical doom and gloom. Trying to get a feel for which is accurate- at least as much as is possible from an online forum🙄