Looking for direction....

[commymommy]

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I have committed myself to going forward with graduate work in Psychology. Ultimately, my goal is to work in the field of health psychology or primary care psychology. I would like to work with patients diagnosed with diseases like cancer, MS, lupus, diabetes, HIV etc who are struggling to adjust changes caused by medical complications...or patients trying to lose weight, quit smoking or having compliance issues....

I feel pretty passionate about this being 'right' for me.

Here's where it gets tricky:

I'm a busy mom with 5 children and my husband is a physician here who is not really excited about the idea of relocating.

My ugrad psych gpa is pretty solid and my last 2 years of psych coursework were a 3.94. I have a post-bacc in biology and an MS in Mol. Biology with a gpa above a 3.5. I have experience teaching at the college level as well.

I believe I could be a competitive candidate if I use this year to do some volunteer work and even take a class or two.

My question is about which direction to take.

I live in MN and there is one clinical psychology program in the state at U of MN. It is an excellent school, but from what I understand is highly invested in turning out researchers instead of clinicians. I enjoy research, but my goal, ultimately is clinical work. U of MN has a counseling psych phd program that could be interesting....but I honestly don't know whether clinical psych or counseling psych would serve me better.

The only other viable option is the Univ. of St. Thomas. They offer a counseling psych. PsyD. It would be the most flexible option because coursework is offered in the evening. That calls to me because there are so many demands on my time. It would certainly be more convenient for me to arrange my schedule for classes in the evenings. I worry though about quality. The APA internship match rate for St. Thomas is below 50%. That's a bit of a red flag.

I'm just beginning to research my options and I wonder if anyone can provide me with insight or information based on their own personal/professional experiences?

 

[biogirl215]

Do you have any research experience in psych?

 

[Thrak]

Just off the top of my head, I think it'll be an uphill climb if you only have a couple of programs to choose from, and one of the two would be a bad fit since you want to be a practitioner rather than a researcher.

I think your scores and previous grad work should help (and the Psych/GRE may come into play as well) but applying to a limited geographic region is usually a risky move. I should know... I'm applying to a limited geographic region because of family commitments, and it's not exactly paying big dividends.

Good luck!

 

[commymommy]

I don't have research experience in psych. Unfortunately (or not so unfortunatley 😀 ), my experience is limited to enzymes. I am currently looking at a couple of different research projects that I could get involved in.

I agree that the geographic limitations are a problem. I have to at least try. If I'm unable to get in during my first application cycle then obviously I'll need to broaden the scope and....that would mean some big discussions around here about relocating.

Another question since I've got your ears.

Would I be better served to get a MA in psychology/counseling first? It's been a long time since I was a psych ugrad student.

Thanks again.

Kris

 

[JockNerd]

Although I'm certainly not a fan of the programs, I'd suggest you look into distance programs, such as Fielding Graduate Institute. It would eliminate the need to relocate and the programs are much less competitive to get into than others.

I'd pay attention to the match rates, time you need to spend on-site, accreditation, and cost of those programs.

 

[Kreike]

Just a thought... have you ever thought about getting an MPH? I have VERY similar intersts to your own and applied to 7 clinical psych programs this year. I only got 1 interview, so I began looking at other options. People with an MPH have very promising career prospects. If you find a program with a Health Promotion concentration, you will be involved with planning, implementing, and evaluating lifestyle change programs for people with chronic illnesses. You will not do counseling per se, but you can have a lot of interaction with patients- including education and group support. As far a salary is concerned, there is a lot of growth potential. Director positions in hospitals often require an MPH, and can make upwards of $300K/yr.

 

[Ollie123]

This is a tough one.
I imagine you'll be miserable in U. Minn. Its one of the best schools in the country for research, but "I want to be a practitioner" is without a doubt a kiss of death at interviews. You can always "fake it", but in addition to being dishonest for the school and those who want to spend time training you, I doubt their program is set up to provide the kinds of experiences you'd want. I don't really know what to recommend. If you are stuck geographically you have to make do. Its hard enough getting in if you can apply to 20 schools anywhere you like🙂

I'll tell you right now, if you do not have research experience, I'm not sure I would bother applying to Minnesota. I would fall out of my chair if they even offered an interview. Not trying to be mean or anything, that's just the reality of schools like that. Your Mol Bio master's probably means you have SOME research experience though, just not in psychology - correct? Have you published anything in that realm? If so, it might give you a shot at U Minnesota since they're an extremely biologically oriented program.

Thomas will be a gamble. You'll need to bust your butt to show that you won't be in the 50% that doesn't place. I'm also hesitant to recommend it if its an "evening only" program. Is it just classes that are in the evening, or is meant to be a part-time program? If you complete it in the normal amount of time (4-5 years) but its only part-time I have a hard time imagining its a good school. Sort of the nature of the field - you need to be working a LOT - I'm putting in way more time than is "required" (60+ hours a week) and there's still a ton that I'm not getting to do that I probably should. In some ways its actually a little easier for researchers than clinicians since there's more research work that can be done from home.

I would look into counseling. It may or may not have health psych ties, and may or may not be as research focused as the clinical programs. Only one way to find out.

Best of luck with everything!

 

[amy203]

I second the MPH idea. UMN has a fabulous MPH program, including a Community Health Education track that might be great for you:
http://www.sph.umn.edu/education/che/home.html

 

[Ollie123]

Problem with the MPH is it isn't exactly a clinically-oriented degree (at least not that I'm aware of). It prepares you more for policy work and behind-the-scenes type stuff. Unless the programs I'm aware of are the exception rather than the rule, you won't actually be seeing clients yourself as an MPH.

It sounds like you are more interested in direct contact with patients?
I'd look into other options - it boils down to how invested you are in the psychology model versus staying in one area. Medical social workers can also be involved in alot of those issues. I don't know if U Minnesota has a program, but that might be a good option that lets you do something the same or similar to what you mentioned without the issues of a psychology doctorate.

 

[commymommy]

Thank you so much for all of the helpful replies.

I do have biological research and lab experience...and publications, but they are about 6 years old. I do have options for getting involved in two different projects this summer. I actually do have a strong interest in research and particular in research into the biological foundations of behavior. In that regard, UMN wouldn't necessarily be as much of a stretch, but...my ultimate goal is clincial work. That's the truth.

St. Thomas is a program for working professionals and in order to get into the PsyD program you have to already have an MS. It isn't part-time and takes 4-5 years to complete. Still, the match rating being what it is and my questions about program quality....

It's hard to be grown up about it all. 😀 I WANT to be able to say "me, me, me" and "this is what I want" and apply everywhere. That's just not likely to be in the cards. I need to accept what is realistic and will get me to my goal even if it isn't the most prestigious route.

I have looked at the MPH option, but I'm really most interested in clinical work with patients. At the hospital where my husband works, there is a clinical psychologist who does rounds with the residents. He is consulted for a variety of emotional issues brought on my people dealing with illness/loss or exacerbations of emotional problems during illness. I'd love to jump right in when he retires.

Thanks so much for your insight.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I agree with Ollie.

1. I can't imagine doing a clinical program part-time and finishing in 4-5 years, as my first few years I was consistantly doing 60+ hrs per week, and I know other people put in more hours.

2. U of Minn is an *awesome* program for research, but I don't think a realistic option for anyone who is even thinking about wanting to do therapy.

3. Match rate isn't the end all and be all, but definitely something to really ask about. I'd be cautious of any program that places poorly, as internship is an important year of training and can provide access (or limit you) to post-doc opportunities and/or jobs down the road.

 

[deleted176373]

I have committed myself to going forward with graduate work in Psychology. Ultimately, my goal is to work in the field of health psychology or primary care psychology. I would like to work with patients diagnosed with diseases like cancer, MS, lupus, diabetes, HIV etc who are struggling to adjust changes caused by medical complications...or patients trying to lose weight, quit smoking or having compliance issues....

I live in MN and there is one clinical psychology program in the state at U of MN. It is an excellent school, but from what I understand is highly invested in turning out researchers instead of clinicians. I enjoy research, but my goal, ultimately is clinical work. U of MN has a counseling psych phd program that could be interesting....but I honestly don't know whether clinical psych or counseling psych would serve me better.

I do think that you should look closely at the counseling program at U of Minn. It sounds like you have strong credentials and if so, you should go for the best program you can get into that meets your needs. The clinical program may not be suitable, and if so, there is nothing wrong with checking the counseling program out. Pursuing a Psy.D. at a solid institution may be highly desirable in your situation. If you don't have a good program near you, I would avoid that path if possible... after all, if you are going to pay for it, you might as well get your money's worth.

Mark

 

[LGymnast]

I'm an RA in the clinical department at UMN and can honestly say if you are not really enthusiastic about hard core research for 6+ years, this program isn't for you. I have had an amazing experience, and love my job, but my ultimate goal is to become a clinician. Also, Minnesota doesn't interview, they have a welcome weekend in March for admitted applicants. Just stuff to keep in mind.

 

[psychanon]

Have you thought about an MSW? It may allow you to achieve your goals. I don't know what the MSW opportunities are in MN, but it's something to look into. If you could move anywhere and devote 70 hrs a week to doctoral studies, I may have given you different advice, but given your constraints, a masters level degree may be your best option. Some people are concerned about the prestige, but I think that an MSW would be more highly regarded than a distance Ph.D./Psy.D. or a Psy.D. from a degree mill type program (and I think you're very right to have those concerns about St. Thomas).

 

[AlairaK]

Is difficult to get a job with a Psy.D degree, isn't it?

 

[amy203]

UMN has a dual degree in public health and social work.

http://ssw.cehd.umn.edu/Programs/MSW/DualDegree.html

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Is difficult to get a job with a Psy.D degree, isn't it?

No. Please read the sticky on top of the forum for more information.

It is the same licensure as the Ph.D. and Ed.D. No matter which degree you go for, make sure it is from an APA-approved program, and that you go to an APA-approved internship site. Failure to do those things can restrict your job options (VA Hospitals req. APA-approved programs and sites, most all competitive jobs use APA-approval as a first rule out, etc).

 

[commymommy]

I'm an RA in the clinical department at UMN and can honestly say if you are not really enthusiastic about hard core research for 6+ years, this program isn't for you. I have had an amazing experience, and love my job, but my ultimate goal is to become a clinician. Also, Minnesota doesn't interview, they have a welcome weekend in March for admitted applicants. Just stuff to keep in mind.

I would be interested in hearing more about your experiences. My understanding about the U of MN was that clinical training takes a back seat to research and...that if your interest was in becoming a clinician it wouldn't be a good fit.

I did 3 years of lab research and taught biology labs for several years. I do enjoy bench research and even toyed with the idea of a PhD in Neuroscience a few years ago. I'm not opposed to research at all ... and I think I could be good at it. It's just that my ultimate goal is clinical work.

Have you had any problems getting clinical experience? Is it generally accepted that although you are involved in research (and may even plan to continue in the future) that you are intersted in becoming a clinician? Do you feel well-prepared for clinical work?

Thanks in advance,

Kris

 

[Ollie123]

Note that LGymnast said she was an RA, not a grad student. Whether or not she has clinical experience or they view it as acceptable that she wants to be a clinician is not necessarily reflective of how they feel about their own grad students who they are investing more time and money in and relying on to maintain the reputation of the university.

The more I hear the more it sounds like an MSW focused in medical social work would be the way to go for you. Possibly with a joint MPH as others have pointed out. You're seeing patients, doing counseling, working with setting them up to change health behaviors. There's a demand for it, MSWs have more career options so as long as there are major hospitals in your area you should be able to find a job with ease afterwards. It will be a shorter program and will generally be less intensive compared to a clinical doctorate.

 

[LGymnast]

It is absolutely correct I am an RA and not a grad student, but I attended UMN for undergrad and currently work very closely with the grad students. It is absolutely possible to become a clinician after attending MN for grad, but the program focuses on producing researchers/professors. I would e-mail the faculty member you are interested in working with if you want more information, but it seems like with what you are looking to get out of a program UofM is probably not the best place. I applied to PhD programs this year (not MN) and have been accepted at a scientist-pracitioner school that is a much better fit for what I am looking to do in the future.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Have you had any problems getting clinical experience? Is it generally accepted that although you are involved in research (and may even plan to continue in the future) that you are intersted in becoming a clinician? Do you feel well-prepared for clinical work?

Hey Commymommy,

You could get valuable clinical experience volunteering. You may want greater access to "patients," look into your options. I volunteered for a rape crisis intervention program and gained some very insightful clinical experience while providing a community service. Also, I know colleagues that volunteered for a suicide hotline, which was tough work, but provided them great experience (not to mention being a calm sounding board to those in dire straits.)

I can't imagine doing a clinical program part-time and finishing in 4-5 years, as my first few years I was consistantly doing 60+ hrs per week, and I know other people put in more hours.

I agree. I resemble this comment. I have two kids and in my first year of a clinical psych PhD program. My husband has become Mr. Mom. We're considering a live-in "au pair" because the demands of my program. I'm there for my kids, but something always has to give...and it's usually my homework or reading being delayed, me missing class or my husband taking the day off from work b/c I can't. I don't know your personal circumstance, but take this into consideration when developing your plan of action because it sounds like you're leaning towards the clinical doctorate route.

Also, consider making an appointment with the Director of PhD programs or graduate admissions counselors of schools that you want to apply to...of course, not now...because they are too busy with applications, but maybe in the summer, after the admissions storm is over. I did this because I was an unusual candidate. Bring all your information with you, test scores, transcripts, cv, your plan and ask them what they think. It couldn't hurt to try, if they are willing to meet with you before you apply (grad admissions counselors will, but directors of program may be too busy). You could gather some tactics on how to structure your personal statement by learning what they are looking for in a candidate.

Good luck!

 

[kyril]

another way to gather more information may be to find people in the MN area who have the job(s) that you ulimately would like to have post-graduate degree. if you are interested in working with individuals with MS, for example, and wanted to stay in you area, where would you likely end up working? who are the workers that do the kind of clinical work you want to do? what are their degrees/training? they may have experienced advice as to the whole counseling/clinical/psyd/phd/msw issue.

good luck!

 

[commymommy]

These are all wonderful suggestions. I will take some time to consider everything you have brought up. Thank you all so much.

Kris