Looking for some pharmacy school advice

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FosterPharm

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Greetings SDNers,

I'm starting pharmacy school in two months and would like some tips. If you were in my shoes, what would you do to prepare yourself for pharmacy school? My pharmacist recommended playing memory games to improve myself. If you are currently a pharmacist, what did you wish you knew beforehand before starting pharmacy school? Is relaxing the best thing for me right now? Should I be studying my top 200 drugs? Another pharmacist told me to make as much money as I can to lower my future student loans. Thanks in advance.
 
Dalteparin said:
Don't go to pharmacy school. If you ignore my advice and go anyway, start saving for student loan payments now.


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will get better future? if we no do pharm wat we do? doctor?
 
ICPharmD said:
Step 1: Don't attempt to get into pharmacy school

Step 2: Get into computer science or some other field might as well learn plumbing.


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by 2020 the unemployment rate for a Master plumber will be much lower than a pharmacist
 
Be ready mentally and emotionally to feel disappointment and have the feeling of getting the short end of the stick upon graduation. I have seen and heard of students going to local chains almost begging for jobs. The number of jobs just doesn't match the number of grads.
 
You sure you want to be a pharmacist? You best be willing to work any job available at any location. Or "differentiate" yourself at school and apply for residencies.

If you can apply and get accepted to medical or dental schools, then do so. I know a couple of first years who did and they will probably be better off than the rest of us lot.

If pharmacy is your true calling then look into getting work experience through an internship. Employers usually look for people who are already familiar with the procedures compared to those who only had exposure through rotations.
 
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Thanks for the responses. I have a job ready for me after I graduate. If I had the competitive stats for dental and premed, I would have done it. I am seeking experience through volunteering because I can't apply for an intern license until school starts. As for residencies and stuff, my future employer told me I don't have to do it cause they will train you. Apparently what they teach you in school isn't how it is in the real world. Even though I'm not thinking of a residency, I will try to "differentiate" myself.
 
FosterPharm said:
Thanks for the responses. I have a job ready for me after I graduate. If I had the competitive stats for dental and premed, I would have done it. I am seeking experience through volunteering because I can't apply for an intern license until school starts. As for residencies and stuff, my future employer told me I don't have to do it cause they will train you. Apparently what they teach you in school isn't how it is in the real world. Even though I'm not thinking of a residency, I will try to "differentiate" myself.
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I can relate. My stats were crap but I still got accepted to every pharmacy program i applied to so maybe I should have applied to a DO or PA or optometrist or podiatrist program. I feel like the only ones in pharmacy are those with really, really poor GPAs. I did very well on the PCAT (>90 composite) but i feel like most schools don't even care about the PCAT. The general feel i have based on the mass number of emails begging me to apply/interview at their program is that pharmacy schools are starting to get desperate for candidates so i guess more students are wising up and avoiding the profession all together.

My estimated debt from pharmacy school will be 110k
 
Humble Sloth said:
I can relate. My stats were crap but I still got accepted to every pharmacy program i applied to so maybe I should have applied to a DO or PA or optometrist or podiatrist program. I feel like the only ones in pharmacy are those with really, really poor GPAs. I did very well on the PCAT (>90 composite) but i feel like most schools don't even care about the PCAT. The general feel i have based on the mass number of emails begging me to apply/interview at their program is that pharmacy schools are starting to get desperate for candidates so i guess more students are wising up and avoiding the profession all together.

My estimated debt from pharmacy school will be 110k
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but tuition only, what about living expense=190k?

Pharm schools very few relate to PCAT, they dont even care, gpa mostly concern.
 
FosterPharm, why do you want to be a pharmacist, besides saying that you have a guaranteed job upon graduation? Have you ever worked in a pharmacy (and no, I'm not talking about job shadowing for an afternoon)?

It used to be a great career; not any more, and that's if you can even find a job.
 
So much negativity here.
 
Humble Sloth said:
I can relate. My stats were crap but I still got accepted to every pharmacy program i applied to so maybe I should have applied to a DO or PA or optometrist or podiatrist program. I feel like the only ones in pharmacy are those with really, really poor GPAs. I did very well on the PCAT (>90 composite) but i feel like most schools don't even care about the PCAT. The general feel i have based on the mass number of emails begging me to apply/interview at their program is that pharmacy schools are starting to get desperate for candidates so i guess more students are wising up and avoiding the profession all together.

My estimated debt from pharmacy school will be 110k
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Just curious, how come your debt is gonna be only 110K. I saw on your profile that you go to UOP, i thought that school was very expensive... Is someone paying for you or did you save up before starting school?
 
rph3664 said:
FosterPharm, why do you want to be a pharmacist, besides saying that you have a guaranteed job upon graduation? Have you ever worked in a pharmacy (and no, I'm not talking about job shadowing for an afternoon)?

It used to be a great career; not any more, and that's if you can even find a job.
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I don't really know what you mean by working in a pharmacy. I am not tech certified but I still do inventory, prescription drop off, clerk duties, cleaning duties, deliveries, and other things that doesn't require a certificate. Every pharmacist I know still tells me it's a rewarding career, but most of them are hospital staff/clinical pharmacists. They don't regret going down that path. Whether it is right for me, I can't really say because I can't do real pharmacist work right now. I'm only doing 70% tech work that doesn't require a certificate. As to why I want to be a pharmacist, I'm just picking the option that would be best for me after looking at the pros/cons of other career paths. Best as in moving forward with my degree and not taking a big leap back to start a different route. I don't know how competitive I can be with a ~3.2 GPA in other healthcare fields. I made a big mistake in undergrad and my options seem limited.
 
did OP ask if they should go to pharmacy school or not? Lol pretty sure the kid wants advice for pharmacy school.

FosterPharm: Don't worry pharmacy school isn't that hard. If you have half a brain you'll be just fine. Just don't be lazy.
 
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lane one said:
did OP ask if they should go to pharmacy school or not? Lol pretty sure the kid wants advice for pharmacy school.

FosterPharm: Don't worry pharmacy school isn't that hard. If you have half a brain you'll be just fine. Just don't be lazy.
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Thanks for the response. I'm not sure if I am having cold feet, but seeing your message makes me feel a little better.
 
You say you have a job waiting when you graduate; you do realize that your graduation is four YEARS away, right? The economy and the company that made you this "offer" can change dramatically in 4 years. Hell, when I started pharmacy school, new grads were getting $20K signing bonuses and new cars with their job offers. By the time I graduated, the economy was in the crapper and we were just glad to get offers. New grads now often have to settle for part-time or PRN work.


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Best advice has already been given. Don't go to pharmacy school. You obviously haven't done any research about the field. You have a job lined up 4 years from now? LoL. So did the 2015 grads who got laid off when CVS, Walgreens, Walmart, etc closed stores or cut hours in the past couple months.
 
Thanks for your advice. I know pharmacy is definitely not as great as it is before. In regards to the job offer, the pharmacist is going to retire and pass the position to me by the time I am done. I've spoken with the director and he said if I wanted to work in outpatient or inpatient, I can choose. Even though this hospital is in a bad location, I am willing to take the position. The pharmacists he hires may look great on paper but doesn't really perform well. One pharmacist even slept on the job. If it doesn't work out, I do have other options. I did not go into this blindly. I'm doing a 3 yr accelerated program as well.

Let's get back to the original post about school prep.
 
I stand by my original comments: don't go to pharmacy school. And whether it's 3 years from now or 4, you really can't count on anything they tell you now. I'm not suggesting that these people are trying to con you; there's simply too much that can change between now and when you graduate. The DOP could take a job somewhere else (and if they leave, so does your offer), that pharmacist could decide not to retire, or have a health crisis and need to retire before you graduate, or someone more qualified might come along. Telling you that you'd have a job when you graduate is a very nice thing for them to do, but you're not guaranteed employment there until you sign on the dotted line. Please don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Sorry. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear.


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Run far, far away. These are four years of your golden life that will be sunk into a very, very expensive degree. Retail jobs are a struggle to obtain, even in the sticks. Even our most optimistic friends from California will tell you it's not worth it.
 
FosterPharm said:
In regards to the job offer, the pharmacist is going to retire and pass the position to me by the time I am done.
Click to expand...

So in other words, you have no job offer.

Dalteparin said:
I stand by my original comments: don't go to pharmacy school. And whether it's 3 years from now or 4, you really can't count on anything they tell you now. I'm not suggesting that these people are trying to con you; there's simply too much that can change between now and when you graduate. The DOP could take a job somewhere else (and if they leave, so does your offer), that pharmacist could decide not to retire, or have a health crisis and need to retire before you graduate, or someone more qualified might come along. Telling you that you'd have a job when you graduate is a very nice thing for them to do, but you're not guaranteed employment there until you sign on the dotted line. Please don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Sorry. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear.


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This. Imagine that it's 2005, not that long ago. There were only 92 pharmacy schools, new pharmacies were opening everywhere, pharmacists were given job offers left and right, sign-on bonuses, new cars... CVS flew out all the new grads out to Palms Springs for a huge party every year. Tuition was only 20k/year, federal loans were subsidized and interest rates were low. A pharmacist that is 62 years old tells you the same thing, that you could have his position when you graduate. You have a "job offer", sounds great right? 3 years go by, now it is 2008 and all of a sudden the world economy crashes. The stock market plummets. The value of everyone's 401k gets cut in half. Guess what, no one can retire anymore. They have to work 5-10 more years to wait for the next bull run (2010-2016) and hopefully they didn't get scared and sell all of their stocks and mutual funds when they were cheap.

Now imagine the same scenario in 2016. The same thing can happen in 2019, only there will be closer to 200 pharmacy schools, and instead of pharmacies opening everywhere they will be closing everywhere. Tuition will be 50k+/year with no more subsidized loans. Instead of pharmacists receiving offers left and right, they are getting laid off left and right. This includes hospital, not just retail. Hospitals are being bought out and closed, just like retail chains.

There was a LTC pharmacy that pretty much guaranteed you a per diem job after graduation back in 2013. Half my class expected to work there as their safety net. Well surprise, the director stepped down shortly before we graduated in 2014 and the company stopped hiring people. You can't even get an interview with them anymore, those who were lucky enough to get one said the new executives were extremely picky about who they hired. All senior members left after the director did, so none of the interns knew anyone with hiring power within the company anymore.
 
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rph3664 said:
And your point is?

It's all true, isn't it?
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Jobs being hard to find? Sure that's true. That's not a reason though to go a different route. Before all the negativity, no one asked the situation. Turns out the OP has a great opportunity to take over a pharmacy.

It's amazing how the percentage of people here that hate their job isn't the same as the number of pharmacists I know. Outside if floaters, most enjoy what they do and the lifestyle they are allowed to live.

Actually I guess it isn't amazing, the sole reason people come here is to either brag about their position or say how much retail sucks.
 
CMUchicka said:
Just curious, how come your debt is gonna be only 110K. I saw on your profile that you go to UOP, i thought that school was very expensive... Is someone paying for you or did you save up before starting school?
Click to expand...

My real school isn't UoP. I am not going to post my real school on here for security reasons. I attend one of the cheapest schools in the nation. And that is a very calculated effort.
 
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FosterPharm said:
Let's get back to the original post about school prep.
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I recommend working consistently during school - otherwise you don't have a great opportunity to learn things like brand/generic or doses (at least my school didn't focus on it). I worked outpatient hospital pharmacy for 4 years, even though that's not necessary what I want to do what I graduate this May. I found the experience extremely helpful and the hours were great with my school schedule.

Not sure if you school requires you to do IPPE hours on your own time. But if so, I recommend completing all of them the summer before school starts. For example, my school required P1's to have 200 h (100 community + 100 institutional) and we had to set them up ourselves. I did 5 weeks full time to get it out of the way prior to classes, whereas some of my classmates procrastinated and were still doing hours over Spring Break.
 
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FosterPharm said:
Thanks for your advice. I know pharmacy is definitely not as great as it is before. In regards to the job offer, the pharmacist is going to retire and pass the position to me by the time I am done. I've spoken with the director and he said if I wanted to work in outpatient or inpatient, I can choose. Even though this hospital is in a bad location, I am willing to take the position. The pharmacists he hires may look great on paper but doesn't really perform well. One pharmacist even slept on the job. If it doesn't work out, I do have other options. I did not go into this blindly. I'm doing a 3 yr accelerated program as well.

Let's get back to the original post about school prep.
Click to expand...

I had a classmate who was guaranteed a job at a well-liked regional chain because her dad was the manager of their hometown pharmacy. Third or fourth year of pharmacy school comes around and Walgreens buys the entire company, shuts down most locations and converts the others. Now her guaranteed dream job was yanked away and she had to work with Walgreens for two very stressful years before finding another job at an independent. Always have contingency plans!
 
Get an intern job. Suck up to people with connections. Don't become complacent. Assume nothing is guaranteed. Pharmacy hiring is by and large not very meritocratic if you are just being hired for your license (i.e., you are just a commodity).
 
FosterPharm said:
Thanks for your advice. I know pharmacy is definitely not as great as it is before. In regards to the job offer, the pharmacist is going to retire and pass the position to me by the time I am done. I've spoken with the director and he said if I wanted to work in outpatient or inpatient, I can choose. Even though this hospital is in a bad location, I am willing to take the position. The pharmacists he hires may look great on paper but doesn't really perform well. One pharmacist even slept on the job. If it doesn't work out, I do have other options. I did not go into this blindly. I'm doing a 3 yr accelerated program as well.

Let's get back to the original post about school prep.
Click to expand...

I echo others in that pharmacy is definitely a tighter job market in the vast majority of places people want to work at.

I also have to say, if your decision to pursue pharmacy is based on this alone, then this is absolutely the WORST reason to pick pharmacy. As mentos and others have said, nothing is guaranteed. Actually funny enough, the tighter job market is increasing the number of people stating, "There's a job for me so I'm safe, I'll do pharmacy" If retail chains can't offer positions to all their interns, what makes you think a hospital will? I've seen people say they same thing and it turns out much different. In fact it's often worse, as they feel secure, don't work as hard in school thinking the job promised them with their name on it will be there and shocked once it gets pulled out under the rug. Then they have nothing, no connections, no backups, poor school record. And people work longer than anticipated. Staff change, new people can come in and hustle you out, hospitals close (rarely open or expand). It only took a relatively very short time to completely saturate the job market.

OP, you need to do more research on careers before you think about prepping. Don't do pharmacy unless you're absolutely sure and aware of the risks. And the world isn't just pharmacy, there are many fields and jobs out there, don't put your head in the sand. You might come to not like the job with your name on it or pharmacy at all or you might find something else you like. Explore other careers and options first. Don't develop pharmacy tunnel vision.
 
fewaopi said:
I echo others in that pharmacy is definitely a tighter job market in the vast majority of places people want to work at.

I also have to say, if your decision to pursue pharmacy is based on this alone, then this is absolutely the WORST reason to pick pharmacy. As mentos and others have said, nothing is guaranteed. Actually funny enough, the tighter job market is increasing the number of people stating, "There's a job for me so I'm safe, I'll do pharmacy" If retail chains can't offer positions to all their interns, what makes you think a hospital will? I've seen people say they same thing and it turns out much different. In fact it's often worse, as they feel secure, don't work as hard in school thinking the job promised them with their name on it will be there and shocked once it gets pulled out under the rug. Then they have nothing, no connections, no backups, poor school record. And people work longer than anticipated. Staff change, new people can come in and hustle you out, hospitals close (rarely open or expand). It only took a relatively very short time to completely saturate the job market.

OP, you need to do more research on careers before you think about prepping. Don't do pharmacy unless you're absolutely sure and aware of the risks. And the world isn't just pharmacy, there are many fields and jobs out there, don't put your head in the sand. You might come to not like the job with your name on it or pharmacy at all or you might find something else you like. Explore other careers and options first. Don't develop pharmacy tunnel vision.
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I echo the above the poster. Treat it for what it is--a job PROSPECT not a job OFFER. People have made good points on what could happen that you wouldn't get job. Here's another scenario: after the pharmacist retires and the hospital decides that work has not been well distributed so they eliminate the position and make all current employees work more efficiently. The point is that any of these scenarios is not impossible to think could happen. The only scenario you are seeing is that the pharmacist retires EXACTLY when you are graduating or he retires earlier and they hold on to the position and refuse to look at other candidates or he doesn't retire and they hire you anyway. If you look at it that way, you can see how these the perfect scenarios are not guarantees and it possible for one of the other scenarios where you don't get a job to occur. So what's my advice? Instead of trying to get ahead on class work or studying the top 200 drugs, really look into and understand the field of pharmacy, all the potential career paths and what you will need to do school in order to succeed (hint: not just studying). Definitely keep this connection up but look everywhere.

To give a real example, there are plenty of pharmacy students that are interns at hospitals and when looking to get residencies if they only applied to that hospital and thinking they have a *guarantee*, they would be screwed because all it takes is one person that the hospital might like better and rank slightly higher for them not get matched there. However, if the hospital still likes them of course they would be nice and encourage them because they would want a back up. Instead, you should also be looking at this hospital as your back up so that you push yourself to work harder.
 
Thanks for your inputs. I definitely agree that this is more of a job prospect rather than guaranteed. I did not want to settle down with this position at first because of location. I did drill this into my head, but after reading so many negative posts about the pharmacy career, I think I wouldn't find other prospects. The only thing that keeps me going is thinking that this opportunity is out there. I'm sure I wasn't going to go through thinking I can just pull mediocre grades to get my degree. Like all the responses I've been getting, I will try to find ways to stand out as a student. I thought about this career for about a year now and I looked into other paths relating to pharmacy. I've taken in account all the risks of pharmacy and I still choose pharmacy.
 
People who are still going into pharmacy already know the risk.

So who cares? Pharmacy is still better than an art degree, international studies, French and a million other crappy degrees. Let them roll the dice.


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wagrxm2000 said:
Jobs being hard to find? Sure that's true. That's not a reason though to go a different route. Before all the negativity, no one asked the situation. Turns out the OP has a great opportunity to take over a pharmacy.

It's amazing how the percentage of people here that hate their job isn't the same as the number of pharmacists I know. Outside if floaters, most enjoy what they do and the lifestyle they are allowed to live.

Actually I guess it isn't amazing, the sole reason people come here is to either brag about their position or say how much retail sucks.
Click to expand...


Also the circle jerk of you pursuing computer science or finance instead


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wagrxm2000 said:
Jobs being hard to find? Sure that's true. That's not a reason though to go a different route. Before all the negativity, no one asked the situation. Turns out the OP has a great opportunity to take over a pharmacy.

It's amazing how the percentage of people here that hate their job isn't the same as the number of pharmacists I know. Outside if floaters, most enjoy what they do and the lifestyle they are allowed to live.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call what the OP has a "great opportunity." S/he might have a job because somebody might retire. There's no guarantee that person will actually retire at the right time for OP to get there job, and even if they do, who's to say the DOP won't have a more qualified applicant?

Also, I don't recall ever saying that I hate my job. I really like what I do (and I'm not even a clinical unicorn), but I cannot in good conscience encourage somebody to take out 6 figures in student loans for a field where jobs are rapidly vanishing.
 
Dalteparin said:
I wouldn't call what the OP has a "great opportunity." S/he might have a job because somebody might retire. There's no guarantee that person will actually retire at the right time for OP to get there job, and even if they do, who's to say the DOP won't have a more qualified applicant?

Also, I don't recall ever saying that I hate my job. I really like what I do (and I'm not even a clinical unicorn), but I cannot in good conscience encourage somebody to take out 6 figures in student loans for a field where jobs are rapidly vanishing.
Click to expand...

Every area is different, my alum still has high employment right out of college.

If you know what you are doing 6 years from now you will have a job. I precept and none of my students have failed to land a job. If there is anything people should be cautious about it is what the profession will be like 6 years from now.
 
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Dalteparin said:
Also, I don't recall ever saying that I hate my job. I really like what I do (and I'm not even a clinical unicorn), but I cannot in good conscience encourage somebody to take out 6 figures in student loans for a field where jobs are rapidly vanishing.
Click to expand...

This is how I feel as well. I've managed to find some decent opportunities, certainly better than some of my classmates, but it took some level of personal sacrifice and flexibility. The opportunities afforded to me were certainly less than those available when I started down this path in the early 2000's. All of the pieces have been in place for an employment crisis in this field for years, and many of us have witnessed the shift slowly occurring year after year. To tell a high-school or college aged person to pursue pharmacy would just be irresponsible at this point. It's not that it's impossible to find a job now, or that it will be impossible in the future. It's just that it is a huge investment of time and money, and the risk to reward ratio is becoming very unfavorable.
 
I think the OP was looking for pharmacy school advice.
 
wagrxm2000 said:
I think the OP was looking for pharmacy school advice.
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And that's what I gave them. 🙂. I know you get sick of the negativity, but pretending that everything is fine doesn't do anybody any favors.

Honestly, the question of what to do to prepare for RX school has come up here numerous times, and the answer is always the same: get a job. Other than that, there's really nothing else you can do. Someone upthread suggested setting up IPPEs, but not every school allows students to do that on their own.


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Well, since you are committed to pharmacy school, I think playing "memory games" and what not is stupid. I suggest just enjoying yourself and living it up before you are stuck studying all the time for school. If you don't already have the aptitude to succeed in pharmacy school, you aren't going to get it by playing memory games all summer. And if you do have the aptitude, then there is no advantage to getting an early start, just enjoy yourself and your carefree days before you start.
 
Dalteparin said:
And that's what I gave them. 🙂. I know you get sick of the negativity, but pretending that everything is fine doesn't do anybody any favors.

Honestly, the question of what to do to prepare for RX school has come up here numerous times, and the answer is always the same: get a job. Other than that, there's really nothing else you can do. Someone upthread suggested setting up IPPEs, but not every school allows students to do that on their own.


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Click to expand...

The OPs question was how to prepare for pharmacy school not what is your opinion of the professions outlook when he/she graduates.
 
wagrxm2000 said:
The OPs question was how to prepare for pharmacy school not what is your opinion of the professions outlook when he/she graduates.
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And if you read the post you quoted, you'll see some of that too. 🙂
 
Chalupa_Batman86 said:
The outlook is looking grim, just do a supply and demand evaluation. The best way to prepare for pharmacy school nowadays is not to prepare at all while notifying admissions that you will not be attending their program.
Click to expand...

Another way is to prepare for pharmacy school is to excel at your prereqs, do research, volunteer, and do other extracurricular activities. After that, apply to med or dental schools.

Either that or start taking computer science courses.
 
I know of a graduate from my class who works as a medical writer and doesn't 'have an RPh job.

I was just at a store that is doing over 400 scripts a day but has the staffing for a store that does 250 scripts a day. I've seen pharmacy managers come in an hour early and stay an hour late because there is simply not enough help and too much work. I am glad I'm not manager or staff at these places because I'm not going to stay a single second after my shift is over unless I get paid for it. I don't care what condition the place looks like, I'm out the door once it's time to go. Have heard of people driving an hour and half away one way for work, which is ridiculous to me.

I've spoken to other classmates and many are just happy to have a job even though the conditions are terrible and there is no job security. Think about it, you literally invest the prime of your life and get yourself into a large amount of debt just to find out that this is what you have worked for? All of that schooling for this?
 
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