LOR From A PA

[musashi]

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Hey everyone, I posted this question the other day in the non-traditional forum and didn't receive a lot of feedback. Sorry about the double post, but was hoping to hear some more input from those have been there done that.

Initially, I had planned on applying to PA school. I've recently decided to apply to medical school instead. I've shadowed a veteran PA in the ER for 1.5 years over 1000 hours, and was wondering how Adcoms would view a letter in this situation? If I were to apply to PA school this would be called "shadowing" but instead I'm calling it volunteering at the ER. This particular PA is very experienced in EM and I've noticed that many of the ER Docs are constantly referring to him for advice/input even though he's "only" a PA. Should I try to cultivate some relationships with the EM Docs? I have one Doc already on board and will get a great letter, but still need to find 2-3 more. I know that traditional students use primarily academic LORs, but being a nontrad I feel this wouldn't give me the strong letters I could potentially attain from a Doctor. What do ya'll think? Any opinions?

 

[spicedmanna]

I don't see anything wrong with that idea. A letter from anyone who knows you well, has seen you work professionally, and can vouche for your personal/professional qualities and suitability to become a physician, is indeed a good letter. MD/PA, or whatever, doesn't matter that much, in my opinion. Having an outstanding letter, is absolutely important, however.

Sounds like you will have a letter from an EM physician, too. That's good, but keep in mind that more is not necessarily better. I think you will need academic letters, too. In my experience, most schools want to get an idea of your academic suitability in addition to your professional performance/skills. For that they usually require recommendations from professors who have taught you in college, sometimes a combination of two science professor and one non-science professor, or a letter from a pre-professional committee. I know some schools make exceptions for non-traditional students, or people who cannot otherwise obtain a committee letter, but require a written statement as to why you cannot meet the usual letter requirements. I'd contact the schools that you intend to apply and tell them your situation; ask them what is needed in terms of letters, and work it out with them.

Certainly it's your choice to call your shadowing experience whatever you want, but it sounds like it's really "shadowing a PA", no matter how you slice it (I apologize if I misread your information and you were actually a volunteer at the ER who happened to shadow a PA). In my experience, volunteering requires some kind of service activity without pay. Observation hardly counts as a service activity, in my opinion. On the other hand, if you got really hands-on under the supervision of the PA, or helped the PA perform his/her job, then that could be considered volunteering, as you were benefiting the patients through your efforts while you were learning.

Good luck.

Hey everyone, I posted this question the other day in the non-traditional forum and didn't receive a lot of feedback. Sorry about the double post, but was hoping to hear some more input from those have been there done that.

Initially, I had planned on applying to PA school. I've recently decided to apply to medical school instead. I've shadowed a veteran PA in the ER for 1.5 years over 1000 hours, and was wondering how Adcoms would view a letter in this situation? If I were to apply to PA school this would be called "shadowing" but instead I'm calling it volunteering at the ER. This particular PA is very experienced in EM and I've noticed that many of the ER Docs are constantly referring to him for advice/input even though he's "only" a PA. Should I try to cultivate some relationships with the EM Docs? I have one Doc already on board and will get a great letter, but still need to find 2-3 more. I know that traditional students use primarily academic LORs, but being a nontrad I feel this wouldn't give me the strong letters I could potentially attain from a Doctor. What do ya'll think? Any opinions?

 

[baylormed]

I had a letter from a PA whom I shadowed. I was never asked any questions. But I also had a letter from a doctor and the usual science+non-science professor letters. If you're wondering why I had so many letters, it's because I sent them through a package put together after an interview with my schools pre-med committee.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

If you have a PA whom you've worked with for over 1,000 hours, definitely include it - it's going to be a lot more personal than a letter written by an ER doc you've only known a short time - and personal, detailed letters are what grab an adcom's attention.

My experience last year was that you have to have your 3 academic letters, 2 written by science instructors - but I found that, if you e-mail the admissions office of a school, most are happy to accept more letters (not more than 6, though - that's the absolute limit that anybody wants to look at). I had letters from two physicians and a letter from the Chief Nursing Officer of the hospital where I had worked for many years. I got a lot of compliments on my letters. I'm an older non-trad who had been in healthcare for a long time, however - if you're a traditional applicant with just three letters, that's fine.

 

[kevster2001]

Definitely include it, he/she can speak a lot to your character. and for the record i shadowed a PA and put it as a shadowing experience.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

If I were to apply to PA school this would be called "shadowing" but instead I'm calling it volunteering at the ER.

That's your fatal flaw. Calling it volunteering when it's, in fact, shadowing will get you shoved into the BS pile. If it's shadowing (and I suspect it is since that's what you would call it for PA schools), call it shadowing. Volunteering is entirely different.

 

[musashi]

Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate all the suggestions. Will work on getting some volunteer time.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

As far as the shadowing vs. volunteering angle I participate in minor procedures although be it very minor participation such as suturing and splinting, and the other night this patient was crashing and I was told by the attending to relieve the nurse on cpr (she was getting tired). However, I am receiving loud and clear that I need to volunteer as well. I have another year before I apply so time enough to start volunteering.

That's great that you do that, but it's still shadowing. Ask yourself, why would you put it down as shadowing for PA school and volunteering for med school? That makes no sense. The point is, you're doing and seeing what the PA would do and see which is great, but you're not an actual hospital volunteer. This is fine for your clinical experience, but I would get some volunteering some place else (it doesn't have to be clinical).

As for getting to know your profs, you need to go to office hours and meet them. That's the only way to let them know who you are in a class that size.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

As far as the shadowing vs. volunteering angle I participate in minor procedures although be it very minor participation such as suturing and splinting

Most of my science classes were 150-250 students (so I am 1 out of many students).

As far as being one of 150 students - lots of people have this problem! It's up to you to get to know your professors during office hours if you want a decent LOR. If you've already taken the courses, the best you can do is to go back to your professors, explain that you're applying to medical school, and hope for the best. A small tip: when you ask a prof for an LOR, give them a copy of your AMCAS, even if you haven't submitted it! I gave my instructors a copy of my AMCAS with paper tabs on it for my grades, essay section, ECs, etc. The professor can thumb through it and get to know a lot more about you before he/she writes a letter. It worked very well for me.

If you don't mind some advice from an old guy who spent years in hospital administration before going to medical school - DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT mention doing or participating in "minor" procedures (suturing, by the way, is not minor). Don't let your PA mention it, either. Don't discuss it in interviews. It may be legal in your state for an unlicensed person to do certain things under supervision but it is NOT legal in many places and most hospitals or clinics would never allow it if administration knew about it. Adcoms do not want to hear about how good you were at assisting with procedures - you're going to medical school to learn how to do procedures properly and nobody expects you, when you come in the medical school door, to have ever touched a patient if you don't have a license in a health profession. Assisting in procedures will not help your app and can really hurt it. You can raise questions in the adcom's thinking about whether or not you might try to do things that you're not qualified to do as a medical student - and they don't want people like that around.

Phew... sorry about the rant but I hate to see you make what is, in my opinion, a bad mistake.

 

[8744]

...you're going to medical school to learn how to do procedures properly and nobody expects you, when you come in the medical school door, to have ever touched a patient if you don't have a license in a health profession...

That is so refreshing to hear. I was beginning to think that medical schools were only interested in people who had completed medical school for the required medical experience.