LOR Question

[deleted600623]

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Hi all,

I am trying to decide whether or not I use letters from a couple of my letter writers. One is my organic professor whom I have a fairly solid relationship with simply from taking both orgo 1 and 2 from him. I earned a high C in his orgo 1 course and high B in his orgo 2 course. Another one is my biochem professor which I don't have as a good of a relationship with because I only took one course from him. However, I earned an A in his course and did so without having to take the final (if you had an A after the 3 exams during the semester you could choose not to take the final) He will be able to attest to my ability to understand/apply complex science concepts and happens to teach biochem for the medical school associated with my university. I also have a couple of upper div science courses that I will take post-bac so I could potentially get letters from them as well but if I had to choose between either, which should I choose?

Thanks for the help!

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

I would choose the person you feel you know better and have a better relationship with, regardless of the grade you got in their class. Remember that adcoms already see all of your grades so a letter that just restates that you got an A isn't a great letter. You want someone who can speak to your good qualities and back them up with specific examples. Sounds like your Orgo prof might be a good fit but use your best judgment. Perhaps they could speak about your upward trend in the course, too.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

This is problem you should have solved before they wrote letters for you. If you're hesitant about using their letters then you shouldn't have wasted their time having you write one.

Most schools require two science and one non-science letter. If these are for additional letters a school may request, make sure they aren't repetitive. Having an LOR in a class you did poorly in can help explain the situation, show your work ethic, tenacity, etc.

 

[deleted600623]

This is problem you should have solved before they wrote letters for you. If you're hesitant about using their letters then you shouldn't have wasted their time having you write one.

Most schools require two science and one non-science letter. If these are for additional letters a school may request, make sure they aren't repetitive. Having an LOR in a class you did poorly in can help explain the situation, show your work ethic, tenacity, etc.

I am not applying until the 2018-2019 cycle so they haven't written a letter for me. I've simply asked them if they would. These are the only two science profs that are still at my university that I've taken courses from since I'm not a science major.

 

[Catalystik]

Hi all,

I am trying to decide whether or not I use letters from a couple of my letter writers. One is my organic professor whom I have a fairly solid relationship with simply from taking both orgo 1 and 2 from him. I earned a high C in his orgo 1 course and high B in his orgo 2 course. Another one is my biochem professor which I don't have as a good of a relationship with because I only took one course from him. However, I earned an A in his course and did so without having to take the final (if you had an A after the 3 exams during the semester you could choose not to take the final) He will be able to attest to my ability to understand/apply complex science concepts and happens to teach biochem for the medical school associated with my university. I also have a couple of upper div science courses that I will take post-bac so I could potentially get letters from them as well but if I had to choose between either, which should I choose?

Thanks for the help!

I'd pick the Biochem prof. If you want the benefits of a more "solid relationship," maybe you could take another class with him.

 

[deleted600623]

@Catalystik Thanks for the advice! Do you think, as I keep him updated about my experiences over the next 1-2 years through email, that "relationship" will become more substantial? I thought about taking another course with him but he only teaches two and the other course didn't fit in my schedule before I graduated.

 

[Doctor-S]

Another one is my biochem professor which I don't have as a good of a relationship with because I only took one course from him. However, I earned an A in his course ... He will be able to attest to my ability to understand/apply complex science concepts and happens to teach biochem for the medical school associated with my university.

Since you are not applying until the 2018-2019 cycle, you are able to use this extra time to determine "who" will be the strongest letter writer(s) for you.

Right now, I agree with @Catalystik who suggested that you take a second class with your Biochem professor. In so doing, the Biochem professor will have another opportunity to become more familiar with your strengths as a student. I'm sure the Biochem professor is well aware of "which" types of qualities and skills often predict future success as an aspiring medical student (because the prof is already teaching biochem for the medical school). So, if you allow the biochem prof to become better acquainted with YOU, by taking a second class, or scheduling ongoing office hours with the prof, you're more likely to obtain an outstanding LOR from the prof, assuming he agrees to prepare a LOR on your behalf. You'll have to ask first to make sure the prof is onboard with you and is prepared to write a positive (and detailed) LOR on your behalf.

Now, is the time to prepare, and you have the extra time. It might be advisable to schedule an appointment with the Biochem professor and telegraph your goals and thoughts to him in advance (i.e., requesting a LOR in connection with the 2018-2019 cycle).

Supplemental Note for what it's worth: when I agree to write LORs for post-docs, or aspiring Fellows, or whatever, I always invite the letter seekers to meet with me in my office on an ongoing basis so that I can become even better acquainted with them - as scholars, clinicians, and researchers ... and as human beings, before I write the LOR. It is my goal to prepare stellar and personalized LORs for each of them. When I meet with them, I collect additional "detailed facts and strong/positive evidence" from them (e.g., ECs or anecdotes) which I incorporate into each LOR, when meaningful or applicable. Ditto for individuals who are already working with me, or under my direct supervision. By the way, I write the LORs; and no one else. After all, I'm putting my own name, and credibility, and reputation on the line every time I sign a LOR - so I have a vested interest in preparing strong, positive, and detailed LORs for individuals in whom I have the greatest of confidence and respect. I want them to do well and eventually become awesome MDs/PhDs/DVMs! 🙂

Thank you.

 

[Catalystik]

@Catalystik Thanks for the advice! Do you think, as I keep him updated about my experiences over the next 1-2 years through email, that "relationship" will become more substantial? I thought about taking another course with him but he only teaches two and the other course didn't fit in my schedule before I graduated.

Allowing him to get to know you better over time has to be balanced with the concern that his memories of your academic prowess will dim in the next year or so. If you can't TA for him or do research in his lab, you are probably better off getting the LOR sooner than later.

 

[deleted600623]

@Catalystik If I got the LOR now, it wouldn't be good for the 2018 cycle would it?

 

[deleted600623]

@Doctor-S Thank you for the advice! Unfortunately, I am moving in a month to a new job as a scribe in a different state so I won't be able to take another course from him. I am planning on taking a couple upper div bio courses where I will live. Should I continue to update him on my experiences through email or should I focus on the professors of the courses I will take in the future?

 

[deleted600623]

Also, if I got a letter from one of my exercise science professors, would this count as a non-science?

 

[Catalystik]

@Catalystik If I got the LOR now, it wouldn't be good for the 2018 cycle would it?

It would be less than two years old. I don't think that's a big deal, if others are more recent. And you'd always have the option of asking the prof to reissue the same LOR with a new date (if he's still around).

 

[Doctor-S]

@Doctor-S Thank you for the advice! Unfortunately, I am moving in a month to a new job as a scribe in a different state so I won't be able to take another course from him. I am planning on taking a couple upper div bio courses where I will live. Should I continue to update him on my experiences through email or should I focus on the professors of the courses I will take in the future?

@Catalystik has already answered your first question concerning a LOR from your Biochem professor ... LOR is less than 2 years old or ask professor to re-issue reissue LOR with a new date.

In response to your second question: you can request LORs from professors who are teaching your future courses - especially if you ace their classes and they're prepared to write detailed, positive and strong LORs on your behalf. However, at this time, that is unpredictable - i.e., you have not yet aced any "future" classes. Of course, you still have the luxury of time on your side because you're not applying until the 2018-2019 cycle. So, you have more than one option available to you at this time (including @Catalystik's suggestion).

Thank you.

 

[Doctor-S]

Also, if I got a letter from one of my exercise science professors, would this count as a non-science?

"Exercise Science" will probably be classified as HEAL (click on AMCAS course classifications below) unless its course content is otherwise identified as BCPM (see Supplemental Note below).

AMCAS LINK:

https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...ab328dc/amcas_course_classification_guide.pdf

SUPPLEMENTAL NOTE: According to AMCAS: "In the case of interdisciplinary courses, where two or more subject matters are combined into one course, refer to the description of the course on your school's website or consult with your Pre-health Advisor to choose the most appropriate course classification."

When in doubt, ask first, and confirm. It will save you a lot of time and labor when asking letter writers for science and non-science LORs. Plus, make sure you review the websites of the medical schools to which you intend to apply. Some medical schools consider "exercise science" to be a "non-science."

Thank you.

 

[Lawpy]

Since you are not applying until the 2018-2019 cycle, you are able to use this extra time to determine "who" will be the strongest letter writer(s) for you.

Right now, I agree with @Catalystik who suggested that you take a second class with your Biochem professor. In so doing, the Biochem professor will have another opportunity to become more familiar with your strengths as a student. I'm sure the Biochem professor is well aware of "which" types of qualities and skills often predict future success as an aspiring medical student (because the prof is already teaching biochem for the medical school). So, if you allow the biochem prof to become better acquainted with YOU, by taking a second class, or scheduling ongoing office hours with the prof, you're more likely to obtain an outstanding LOR from the prof, assuming he agrees to prepare a LOR on your behalf. You'll have to ask first to make sure the prof is onboard with you and is prepared to write a positive (and detailed) LOR on your behalf.

Now, is the time to prepare, and you have the extra time. It might be advisable to schedule an appointment with the Biochem professor and telegraph your goals and thoughts to him in advance (i.e., requesting a LOR in connection with the 2018-2019 cycle).

Supplemental Note for what it's worth: when I agree to write LORs for post-docs, or aspiring Fellows, or whatever, I always invite the letter seekers to meet with me in my office on an ongoing basis so that I can become even better acquainted with them - as scholars, clinicians, and researchers ... and as human beings, before I write the LOR. It is my goal to prepare stellar and personalized LORs for each of them. When I meet with them, I collect additional "detailed facts and strong/positive evidence" from them (e.g., ECs or anecdotes) which I incorporate into each LOR, when meaningful or applicable. Ditto for individuals who are already working with me, or under my direct supervision. By the way, I write the LORs; and no one else. After all, I'm putting my own name, and credibility, and reputation on the line every time I sign a LOR - so I have a vested interest in preparing strong, positive, and detailed LORs for individuals in whom I have the greatest of confidence and respect. I want them to do well and eventually become awesome MDs/PhDs/DVMs! 🙂

Thank you.

I agree and think this is great advice. But more generally, I enjoy your use of bolded words to emphasize certain key elements (like keywords). Adds a nice stylistic touch

 

[deleted600623]

@Catalystik You can do that? When I've talked with my professors, they have been hesitant about writing the letter now because it won't be a recent letter in comparison to when I apply? If they seem ok with that, re-issuing a new date on the LOR sounds like the best option right now until I take those couple of courses.

 

[Catalystik]

@Catalystik You can do that? When I've talked with my professors, they have been hesitant about writing the letter now because it won't be a recent letter in comparison to when I apply? If they seem ok with that, re-issuing a new date on the LOR sounds like the best option right now until I take those couple of courses.

Key to this plan would be that the prof save the letter for later amendment. You surely wouldn't expect it to be retyped. I can't imagine deleting an LOR, short of leaving the university for whatever reason, but other faculty might view this differently. Or wouldn't want to be put to the trouble of amending a letter two years down the line.

 

[Doctor-S]

Key to this plan would be that the prof save the letter for later amendment. You surely wouldn't expect it to be retyped. I can't imagine deleting an LOR, short of leaving the university for whatever reason, but other faculty might view this differently. Or wouldn't want to be put to the trouble of amending a letter two years down the line.

This is excellent advice from @Catalystik - so, save the letter for later amendment, if needed.

I do not retain LORs at the end of 24 months. At that time, they are deleted.