LOR Question

[arresteddev]

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So I'll be shadowing a physician for a few weeks pretty soon. He's the head of the department, so obviously I'm going to try and ask for an LOR if the experience goes well. I'm an incoming sophomore. I would prefer to ask now so he doesn't forget about me, but am I typically supposed to wait on LORs until close to when I apply? Do I have to email my premed committee and have the doctor email them his LOR so it remains a closed file?

 

[Jepstein30]

So I'll be shadowing a physician for a few weeks pretty soon. He's the head of the department, so obviously I'm going to try and ask for an LOR if the experience goes well. I'm an incoming sophomore. I would prefer to ask now so he doesn't forget about me, but am I typically supposed to wait on LORs until close to when I apply? Do I have to email my premed committee and have the doctor email them his LOR so it remains a closed file?

Yes, you should email your premed committee and ask what they do in this situation. I am sure they have a protocol and will advise you to get the letter ASAP as well. I know my pre med committee would just store it for you until your cycle.

Definitely get it asap

 

[dmf2682]

So I'll be shadowing a physician for a few weeks pretty soon. He's the head of the department, so obviously I'm going to try and ask for an LOR if the experience goes well. I'm an incoming sophomore. I would prefer to ask now so he doesn't forget about me, but am I typically supposed to wait on LORs until close to when I apply? Do I have to email my premed committee and have the doctor email them his LOR so it remains a closed file?

Not to poop in your pudding, but how much exactly do you think a shadowing letter is going to help you? "Candidate X did a wonderful job standing in the corner, probably in the top 5% of students I've had! Recommend with no reservations"

 

[Jepstein30]

Not to poop in your pudding, but how much exactly do you think a shadowing letter is going to help you? "Candidate X did a wonderful job standing in the corner, probably in the top 5% of students I've had! Recommend with no reservations"

Uhh, not sure what your shadowing experience was but mine was alot more than just standing in a corner.

If you spend significant time with the physician, it's a pretty good learning experience and definitely worth getting a LOR for. Not a 5 hour shadowing, OP is talking about "weeks".

It's basically an internship at that point and there's plenty of opportunities to interact with the physician enough for him to properly evaluate and recommend you.

 

[dmf2682]

Uhh, not sure what your shadowing experience was but mine was alot more than just standing in a corner.

If you spend significant time with the physician, it's a pretty good learning experience and definitely worth getting a LOR for. Not a 5 hour shadowing, OP is talking about "weeks".

It's basically an internship at that point and there's plenty of opportunities to interact with the physician enough for him to properly evaluate and recommend you.

Did op say it'd be a significant amount of time, like an internship? I got more of a 4 hr per week for a few weeks kind of vibe. If they can establish that kind of interaction where a lot of learning and teaching is going on, that's great, but everything I've heard says professors > physicians in terms of letters of recommendation. Maybe LizzyM or another authority can weigh in on this one.

 

[mimelim]

In the words of the head of surgery at the med school I went to,"I'd rather hear from a janitor that saw you working than the head of department that saw you watching."

 

[Jepstein30]

Did op say it'd be a significant amount of time, like an internship? I got more of a 4 hr per week for a few weeks kind of vibe. If they can establish that kind of interaction where a lot of learning and teaching is going on, that's great, but everything I've heard says professors > physicians in terms of letters of recommendation. Maybe LizzyM or another authority can weigh in on this one.

So I'll be shadowing a physician for a few weeks pretty soon. He's the head of the department, so obviously I'm going to try and ask for an LOR if the experience goes well. I'm an incoming sophomore. I would prefer to ask now so he doesn't forget about me, but am I typically supposed to wait on LORs until close to when I apply? Do I have to email my premed committee and have the doctor email them his LOR so it remains a closed file?

Up to interpretation but stating that shadowing in general is just standing in a corner and is not worth the LOR is very, very misleading.

I spent two months shadowing a physician a few summers ago and you can bet I got a great LOR from him. Probably one of my strongest and will likely outweigh the LORs from my professors considering two months of daily interaction > random office hours here and there.

Anyways, I'm sure LizzyM will weigh in now since it seems she responds to any post that she's mentioned in 😛 I think she searches her name to make sure us pre-meds aren't talking bad about her!

 

[Fivo]

Up to interpretation but stating that shadowing in general is just standing in a corner and is not worth the LOR is very, very misleading.

I spent two months shadowing a physician a few summers ago and you can bet I got a great LOR from him. Probably one of my strongest and will likely outweigh the LORs from my professors considering two months of daily interaction > random office hours here and there.

Anyways, I'm sure LizzyM will weigh in now since it seems she responds to any post that she's mentioned in 😛 I think she searches her name to make sure us pre-meds aren't talking bad about her!

Honestly, that doesn't look like a positive. How on earth can a physician that you didn't do any work with write a better LOR than your professors? If anything, it seems like your academic LORs will be your downfall if they are weighed heavily. Your professor or employer's LOR should >>>>>>>> your shadowing physician's LOR every time imo.

 

[Bangersandmash]

What is with this notion from most people that shadowing is simply a stand around and do nothing kind of deal? Maybe I was lucky in my choice of doctors, or maybe no one commits to a multiple week shadowing opportunity, but every doctor I've shadowed (three of them, all 50+ hours) I have experienced much more than a simple observer's role. Each doctor left me alone in the room with patients and I often assisted in simple tasks involving patients or helping the doctor. One even offered to write me a LOR without even asking.

If you're shadowing this doctor for more than just a few hours (ideally more than 30 or 40), the LOR should be a great addition to your application. If you don't mind dishing out 20 bucks, you could join Interfolio for a year. They store documents confidentially for about 20 dollars a year. It would also help in case you need to reapply or you need other letters before the application becomes open.

 

[Jepstein30]

Honestly, that doesn't look like a positive. How on earth can a physician that you didn't do any work with write a better LOR than your professors? If anything, it seems like your academic LORs will be your downfall if they are weighed heavily. Your professor or employer's LOR should >>>>>>>> your shadowing physician's LOR every time imo.

Thanks for your expert advice on what will be my downfall this cycle. Definitely very good analysis even though you don't know anything about me, my stats or anything beyond that I got a letter from a physician I spent a summer shadowing!

Anyways, I did do alot with the physician. I spent 50+ hours with him a week for 10 weeks plus various shadowing over the past two years. Just because I didn't hand in an assignment to him, doesn't mean he doesn't have any idea about my academic aptitude, passion for medicine or anything. The fact that he's been my mentor and guide through this process for the past three years (not to mention I've known him since I was little) makes it even more worth the LOR. So while I think my professors' LORs will be very good (when did I even say they wouldn't?), there's little shot they will outshine the physician's LOR. And they shouldn't, considering I've only interacted with my professors for 1-2 semesters.

I would actually think my application is lacking if I didn't have a strong letter from someone who saw how I interacted with patients and my level of comfortableness in a hospital setting. That to me, is very worth the LOR.

What is with this notion from most people that shadowing is simply a stand around and do nothing kind of deal? Maybe I was lucky in my choice of doctors, or maybe no one commits to a multiple week shadowing opportunity, but every doctor I've shadowed (three of them, all 50+ hours) I have experienced much more than a simple observer's role. Each doctor left me alone in the room with patients and I often assisted in simple tasks involving patients or helping the doctor. One even offered to write me a LOR without even asking.

If you're shadowing this doctor for more than just a few hours (ideally more than 30 or 40), the LOR should be a great addition to your application. If you don't mind dishing out 20 bucks, you could join Interfolio for a year. They store documents confidentially for about 20 dollars a year. It would also help in case you need to reapply or you need other letters before the application becomes open.

Seriously, I wonder the type of doctors people typically shadow if they spend most their time in the corner watching. Patient interaction, simple tasks (vitals, etc.), attending various hospital meetings (M&M, etc.). Nothing groundbreaking, but far more involved than simply watching from a distance. It was also a huge learning experience and felt I had a pretty good grasp of the specialty he was in by the end of the summer, meaning he could also attest to my academic aptitude.

End of the day, a LOR can come from anybody who you've spent significant time with and can speak to some of your core abilities: passion for medicine, academic abilities, community service, research.

 

[LizzyM]

It might depend on the medical school, but for the most part, medical schools specifically ask for letters from people who have taught you in school. Not many specify a letter from a clinician, do they? Do you wonder why?

Most letters from clinicians who've been shadowed state that the applicant is prompt, courteous, well groomed, polite, well-spoken, attentive, curious, and so forth. For the most part, it is not very helpful to us as we attempt to assess whether to admit (or interview) an applicant

And yes, if you want me to weigh in, just mention my name in a post (not in the title of the thread).

 

[Fivo]

It might depend on the medical school, but for the most part, medical schools specifically ask for letters from people who have taught you in school. Not many specify a letter from a clinician, do they? Do you wonder why?

Most letters from clinicians who've been shadowed state that the applicant is prompt, courteous, well groomed, polite, well-spoken, attentive, curious, and so forth. For the most part, it is not very helpful to us as we attempt to assess whether to admit (or interview) an applicant

And yes, if you want me to weigh in, just mention my name in a post (not in the title of the thread).

From another thread

 

[UCFKnight]

So I'll be shadowing a physician for a few weeks pretty soon. He's the head of the department, so obviously I'm going to try and ask for an LOR if the experience goes well. I'm an incoming sophomore. I would prefer to ask now so he doesn't forget about me, but am I typically supposed to wait on LORs until close to when I apply? Do I have to email my premed committee and have the doctor email them his LOR so it remains a closed file?

If you are using a pre-health committee, they might have an option for you to waive your rights at viewing your LORs. It looks better for med schools (sorry for stating the obvious if you already knew), so contact them and see.

If not, disregard what I said above, and get it as soon as possible. Make sure you make an impression on him though. I had a MD write me a letter that gave it to me after I waived my rights to turn it in, and I looked at it anyway. I shadowed him in the OR two times a week starting at 7AM for 10 months, and he wrote a letter quoting my resume. I actually think his secretary wrote it. Long story short, make sure to make an impression, and be clear on the kind of letter you want.

 

[arresteddev]

Thanks for all of the advice. I'll be in the OR with him and in the clinic. My main intention was just to get some experience, but my parents hinted that I should ask for an LOR at some point. I think that I'll heed LizzyM's advice and stick to getting LORs from my PI and professors. I still have a long way to go through all of this (lots of learning to be done).