Lost, looking for advice

[bails]

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Hey friends, I posted this in the pre-med forum, reposting it here. Just looking for advice. Here's the post:

Hey friends, new poster.

So, as the title implies, I have absolutely no idea what I want to do when I graduate. I'm a junior in college, 20 years old, and I have a current GPA of a 2.78, with a science GPA that's even lower. I used to be pre-med, and when I graduated high school, I was the only one in my family that graduated high school with honors, and I had my sights set on the MD/Ph.D. path.

But, stuff in my life happened, my GPA slipped, I messed up in my science classes, and my mental health is awful. Right now I'm focusing on getting refocused and not procrastinating so much in my classes, and actually changing the way that I view life.

But I was focused on getting into Psychiatry. I have research experience in two different research labs, extensive extracurricular and employment opportunities (focused more on getting jobs and accolades than I did grades for I hated my GPA and felt worthless compared to other pre-meds) and worked on figuring out my identity.

Right now I'm thinking about going for a clinical psychology Ph.D. or Cognitive Neuropsychology, but there's a part of me that still wants to become an ER doctor or a psychiatrist, but I lost the motivation to study and I find myself floundering. Honestly, the past few weeks I've been seeing myself just dropping out and working a crappy desk job just stuck in one place, but I want to be able to become a doctor one day.

My current stats are tons of extracurricular and volunteer opportunities (including Psi Chi Psychology Honors Society, Crisis Text Line, and being an Eagle Scout) employment opportunities (RA for both Johns Hopkins CTY and my school, Orientation Leader, Tour Guide, and much, MUCH, more) and research experience in two different psychological research labs.

I'm messaging this board for, I don't know, I was wondering if any other pre-meds or current doctoral students (as every single one I meet seems to be incredibly motivated, disciplined, and on top of everything) has been in my position, and how did you work out of it? I'm working on changing my life, but it's difficult when you have no motivation to care.

 

[pediatric_psydoc]

Hello. I'm a doctoral student and I'm going to internship in the summer.

I would focus on your personal situation right now. If you find yourself having low motivation, that is going to be a problem going either into medicine or clinical psychology. Once your personal circumstances are addressed, I would honestly consider a masters degree in a related field in order to demonstrate that you are capable of having a higher GPA. Your extracurricular activities sound great, but that overall GPA and even lower science GPA are going to be problematic in your applications. Or perhaps seek out research experiences and get some publications if possible.

If you find yourself having low motivation now, and the issues behind that are not addressed, you're going to have even more stress in medical school or a doctoral psychology program.

Best of luck to you and I hope my suggestions are helpful.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[glowstick]

Generally agree with sabine_psyd. Clinical psychology programs are [often, on the whole] even more competitive to get into than med school, but some welcome students who've done something like getting a masters to demonstrate improved GPA. More importantly, though, don't study psychology because it's your second choice and your first didn't work out. Do it if it's what you actually want to be doing.

A psychiatrist and a research psychologist are quite different, professionally. I'd recommend talking with mentors, and it sounds like you have some (lab professors, crisis line manager, etc.) about what you want to do. Your school may also have a career counselor you have access to. Really game it out.

 

[bpsydme]

If you haven't already done so, posting in the premed forum instead might give you answers along the lines of what you're looking for. I was also premed in college, finished all my premed courses and was studying for the MCAT before deciding to abandon that route. Being "premed" and "pre-clinical psych" are two very different things. I can't speak for all programs, but at least for mine (a PhD program with heavy research and clinical training), no one will care that you're an Eagle Scout or that you worked as a tour guide. My GPA wasn't as low as yours, I think I had a 3.5 overall and maybe 3.3 science, but when I decided to go the PhD route, I basically started from the bottom in terms of gaining the experiences necessary for grad school. I had done about 2 years of lab bench research at that point, and started out volunteering for data entry again at a clinical lab. All those other volunteer experiences I did didn't really matter, I had to volunteer again for a mental health association instead of a medically-related one.

The bottom line is, acceptance to a good clinical psych PhD program has different criteria than medical school. You worked at two labs, do you have any publications/posters? Can you speak about the research you did, or did you showed up every once in a while so you can put a line on your CV for medical school? The fact that I was premed at a well-known institution didn't matter at my interviews, they cared more about the research I had done. Grad school is 90% self-motivation. Other than classes, no one will run after you to tell you to publish or see patients. Neither will they call your parents if you decide not to show up to class. You make your own schedule, and you make your own deadlines. Med school is more structured, you're told when to show up where. So if you have issues with motivation, you will flounder fast in grad school. If you're still interested in medicine, maybe try to take additional undergrad courses or some post-bac program to up your GPA. From what I remember, med schools care more about your undergrad than your master's GPA, so getting a master's won't move your undergrad grades at all. Or you can kill the MCAT and offset your GPA that way.

 

[wtfook]

I think the biggest thing to consider would be what your motivation for going into the mental health field is. Psychiatrists generally prescribe medication and are not as involved in conducting therapy. This is not 100% but is pretty close to what I've observed working in various outpatient and inpatient facilities. Psychologists are more involved in assessment and research, although some will have private practices and client caseloads at their agencies. If you're more interested in conducting therapy and have no interest in research, you could get a master's in counseling or social work. An MD or master's in counseling or social work would be if you're primarily interested in practice and from there you'd need to decide WHAT you'd want to practice (therapy or med management). If you're interested in research then a PhD or PsyD would be a good route. The PhD or PsyD both require research and have careers conducting research and publishing. Although from what I've observed, PsyD's mostly take on practice heavy jobs while PhD's more commonly go into academia in comparison.

Once you've decided what you want to do in the mental health field, you can then figure out what you want to do about your GPA. It's pretty low for either an MD or a clinical psychology doctorate. Like you, I contemplated medicine for along time before deciding a PhD in psychology was the better option. My GPA was not as low as yours (a 3.6) but it was still evaluated as low compared to other applicants. I was told I could get a post bac degree in the sciences and get good grades, thus demonstrating academic aptitude in the sciences. This is the same recommendation for people with low psych grades. They have post bac degrees specifically geared toward those interested in medical school and there are clinical psych masters degrees specifically geared toward those interested in a clinical psychology doctorate. These programs offer psych classes and research experience. Most (if not all) have a master's thesis. From there, you can raise your GPA and continue your research experience (including publications etc...) in order to improve that aspect of your application.

The other component is the MCAT/GRE. With your low GPA, you would need to score well above the average on your standardized tests. There would be no way around it.

All this information probably sounds very daunting and scary. I'm in my late 20s now, and I think one thing I am thankful for is the time I took off right after undergrad. I did take off a little longer than I'd wanted (4 years), but it allowed me to really figure out what the hell I wanted. I applied for medical school (and failed) which sucked. But I also got to travel, shadow different professionals, find myself as a person, MATURE as a person (and thus get better stress coping skills and get more organized), and save up money for school. You're only a junior in college. It's a seminal year, to be sure, but maybe focus first on getting an internship for the summer. Then think about taking a break from academics for a year and work in something related to what you'd like to do. They have bachelor's level work in mental health facilities. In those jobs you can observe the different roles psychiatrists, psychologists, and master's level therapists play. You can see which roles you think you'd like to do. Or take on a research manager job in a lab and get more research experience and develop your research identity. Either way, I wouldn't worry about time. The more you rush into things, the more you may find you've invested years into something you didn't want. I wouldn't be saying this if you sounded like you knew what you wanted. I have friends who went straight into accelerated medical programs and are happy for the time they saved. But if you're like me and you needed to figure your life out, a couple years off won't kill you. I still went back, got a master's, and will be starting my PhD in the fall.

 

[glowstick]

If you haven't already done so, posting in the premed forum instead might give you answers

Hey friends, I posted this in the pre-med forum, reposting it here.

 

[Diirez]

I have been in a similar situation before. I lost a lot of motivation and had a lot of trouble figuring out what I wanted to do. Luckily my crisis happened my freshman year not my junior year and my grades never slipped because of it.

I guess the first thing you need to start out doing is figuring out if you really want to go into Clinical Psychology. Do you want to go into the clin psych because you want to be involved in healthcare but think it is less rigorous? Or are you really passionate about mental health and would prefer the orientation and job duties that a clin psychologist would do?

I wanted to be a psychiatrist as well for awhile, but I ended up switching out of pre-med to pre-psychology because I realized that a psychiatrist job duties are not what I really wanted to do. Nor did I feel like the medical school path fit how I envisioned myself in the next 10-12 years or so. I also figured out that Clinical Psychology fit the job description that I wanted to do and really was only interested in Psychiatry because it sounds more respectful to most people and makes a lot more money.

So figure out what those feelings you have of wanting to be a doctor still and explore your career prospects.

If you do want to do clinical psych, then you will probably have to spend the next year really working on your research experience and then do a masters to boost your GPA.