Low GPA, 2nd degree or post-bacc?!

[31MDhopeful11]

Good afternoon everyone,

Hope everyone is doing well. I’m a new member but have been following/lurking for a few months and hoping someone would ask/answer this. Some have gotten really close but I haven’t come across an answer I’ve been searching for, so figured I’d just ask myself.

Quick back story; started college 12 years, basically did poorly or failed all my classes that first year, wasn’t into school at the time. Joined the army, been active duty ever since.

When I left that school 12 years ago, I had a 1.1 gpa. Fast forward, at my current school I have a 3.4 GPA and a 3.6 sGPA. I was recently made aware that I have to submit all grades when applying, and the 10 yr rule only applies in Texas. That would bring my cGPA down to a 2.5 but my sGPA would stay the same since I never took science class at the first school.

I have 5 classes left until I’m done with my degree at my current school, and even if I got all A’s, it would only bring my cGPA to a 2.7 (for all my math geniuses, yes I’ve done the math correctly, they are accurateand not rounded to the tenth) but from the threads I’ve read I’m seeing that some schools filter out applications below a cGPA of 3.0 .

The amount of credits I’d need to raise that GPA is around 40 credits, which for me, just makes sense to get a second bachelors.

My question. Does it make sense to get another bachelors to raise my overall GPA, since the focus isn’t with my science pre-reqs? Does a special masters program/DIY post-baccs, need to be what I’m looking at?
Or should I just focus on a good MCAT score and hope they understand?

Thanks to anyone that can help!

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[GreenDuck12]

What are the GPAs for the last few years you’ve been in school?

 

[31MDhopeful11]

What are the GPAs for the last few years you’ve been in school?

It’s floated between 3.3-3.6 depending on if I took them on deployments or while at home.

 

[GreenDuck12]

I wouldn’t be too concerned about how your old coursework will impact you except for minimum GPA cutoffs. At some programs, the minimum GPA is a 3.0. Your current grades are an improvement but I would consider a postbac to really show you can get really good grades 3.7+ for a sustained period of time. I would not pursue a second degree: too much time and money for not enough of a payoff.

Edit: I would either go for the postbac for a couple terms or move on to the MCAT. It really depends on your goals: MD, DO, etc.

 

[31MDhopeful11]

I wouldn’t be too concerned about how your old coursework will impact you except for minimum GPA cutoffs. At some programs, the minimum GPA is a 3.0. Your current grades are an improvement but I would consider a postbac to really show you can get really good grades 3.7+ for a sustained period of time. I would not pursue a second degree: too much time and money for not enough of a payoff.

Edit: I would either go for the postbac for a couple terms or move on to the MCAT. It really depends on your goals: MD, DO, etc.

Realistically I'd like to attend a D.O. school. I have 2 year left in the army, so my plan was basically study for the MCATs the entirety of my last year.

I've heard different things about that school from 12 years ago though. In regards to rather or not its included in GPA. Some say, if my current degree is totally independent of those credits, then it doesn't need to be included. Others say, your entire academic career needs to be included.

Not sure if a post-bacc or SMP is any faster or cheaper than another bachelors either, since most schools only require an additional 32-40 hours depending on the type of degree.

 

[GreenDuck12]

It will definitely be included in your gpa - all undergraduate courses ever attempted must be included in your application. My point about it not factoring as much is because it is from 12 years ago. Whoever is telling you that only your current degree courses must be included is flat out wrong. Applying without including all grades/transcripts would be a very poor decision as it would not clear the initial clearinghouse check. Assuming your app makes it in front of a person to be reviewed, they would be able to see the difference between you as a student a decade ago vs a student now.

 

[GreenDuck12]

As for the second degree: having a second degree doesn’t add much to your application. Major GPA is not calculated, simply cumulative and science gpa by year and the total for all undergraduate courses taken. If you would like to pursue a second degree because you want one, it gives you access to financial aid, or priority registration, then go for it. The purpose, in my mind, of taking more classes is to show you can perform at a high academic level for a sustained period of time (assuming this is not in your app elsewhere).

The purpose of a SMP is to demonstrate you can handle a rigorous medical school curriculum and perform very well (3.6+). Doing this helps show committees that you can succeed academically in a challenging course of study. The challenge in your case is that you still need to overcome minimum GPA cutoffs for your SMP performance to register with an application reviewer. However, an SMP is high risk high reward strategy because if you do not perform well it is viewed as confirmation that you cannot academically handle medical, likely ending your path.

I don’t recommend the SMP route until someone has had unsuccessful cycles and already attempted a postbac to rehab a low GPA. There was a thread last week about someone who pursued an SMP, didn’t perform well, and is now trying to figure out their path forward.

 

[31MDhopeful11]

As for the second degree: having a second degree doesn’t add much to your application. Major GPA is not calculated, simply cumulative and science gpa by year and the total for all undergraduate courses taken. If you would like to pursue a second degree because you want one, it gives you access to financial aid, or priority registration, then go for it. The purpose, in my mind, of taking more classes is to show you can perform at a high academic level for a sustained period of time (assuming this is not in your app elsewhere).

The purpose of a SMP is to demonstrate you can handle a rigorous medical school curriculum and perform very well (3.6+). Doing this helps show committees that you can succeed academically in a challenging course of study. The challenge in your case is that you still need to overcome minimum GPA cutoffs for your SMP performance to register with an application reviewer. However, an SMP is high risk high reward strategy because if you do not perform well it is viewed as confirmation that you cannot academically handle medical, likely ending your path.

I don’t recommend the SMP route until someone has had unsuccessful cycles and already attempted a postbac to rehab a low GPA. There was a thread last week about someone who pursued an SMP, didn’t perform well, and is now trying to figure out their path forward.

Thanks for replying, this helps a ton. I think you're right though. My concern is the undergrad GPA cutoff, that I don't know if the SMP will overcome. There is a dramatic difference between the student I was 12 years ago, and the student I am now, with about 12 years of medic experience in the army.
It isn't much of a "which one I prefer" vs "what I really need to be admitted". I think I would be successful in completion of any post-bacc/SMP/2nd degree, however I feel that most of those are for recent reinvention, not reinvention from more than a decade ago(I could very well be wrong). It's almost like 30 y/o me is suffering the mistakes of 18 y/o me, which I'm not negating that I did terrible the first time around, but now it seems my only options are - I need to do enough course work to erase those mistakes or a special program that overcomes them.

Again, thanks for your time.

 

[Goro]

Good afternoon everyone,

Hope everyone is doing well. I’m a new member but have been following/lurking for a few months and hoping someone would ask/answer this. Some have gotten really close but I haven’t come across an answer I’ve been searching for, so figured I’d just ask myself.

Quick back story; started college 12 years, basically did poorly or failed all my classes that first year, wasn’t into school at the time. Joined the army, been active duty ever since.

When I left that school 12 years ago, I had a 1.1 gpa. Fast forward, at my current school I have a 3.4 GPA and a 3.6 sGPA. I was recently made aware that I have to submit all grades when applying, and the 10 yr rule only applies in Texas. That would bring my cGPA down to a 2.5 but my sGPA would stay the same since I never took science class at the first school.

I have 5 classes left until I’m done with my degree at my current school, and even if I got all A’s, it would only bring my cGPA to a 2.7 (for all my math geniuses, yes I’ve done the math correctly, they are accurateand not rounded to the tenth) but from the threads I’ve read I’m seeing that some schools filter out applications below a cGPA of 3.0 .

The amount of credits I’d need to raise that GPA is around 40 credits, which for me, just makes sense to get a second bachelors.

My question. Does it make sense to get another bachelors to raise my overall GPA, since the focus isn’t with my science pre-reqs? Does a special masters program/DIY post-baccs, need to be what I’m looking at?
Or should I just focus on a good MCAT score and hope they understand?

Thanks to anyone that can help!

No need for a second degree.
Read this:

• Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[31MDhopeful11]

No need for a second degree.
Read this:

• Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

Hey Goro,

Thanks for the direction, I've been reading through most of the threads about this topic all day, and everyone has @ you at some point, so again thanks for that.

I'm still having a tough time deciding which of the 3 are most appropriate for me, between post-bac program,DIY post-bacc, and SMP.

Can you, or anyone reading, explain why a SMP is so "high-risk, high reward" vs. the other two. I do however understand, getting a 2nd bachelors is pointless, and that the goal is not to raise my undergrad gpa, but I feel between those three options, they're all identical.

Thanks again in advance.

 

[penguinsfan71]

Can you, or anyone reading, explain why a SMP is so "high-risk, high reward" vs. the other two.

An SMP is "high risk, high reward" because if you do well, it can be a gateway into medical school, but if you do poorly, you just wasted time and money on a degree that isn't helpful outside of applying to med school. In addition, doing poorly in an SMP suggests that you can't handle the rigors of med school, and can make it very difficult to get an acceptance.

 

[Goro]

Hey Goro,

Thanks for the direction, I've been reading through most of the threads about this topic all day, and everyone has @ you at some point, so again thanks for that.

I'm still having a tough time deciding which of the 3 are most appropriate for me, between post-bac program,DIY post-bacc, and SMP.

Can you, or anyone reading, explain why a SMP is so "high-risk, high reward" vs. the other two. I do however understand, getting a 2nd bachelors is pointless, and that the goal is not to raise my undergrad gpa, but I feel between those three options, they're all identical.

Thanks again in advance.

Forgot to add: many thanks for your service! Hooooooahhh!
The SMP serves as the backdoor to med school, since the faculty at the host program know you. This is why I lean toward them, unless $ is an issue. That's the benefit for DIY post-bac.

Post-bac programs are more for career switchers, and are better than DIY post-bacs because you get advising and sometimes MCAT prep as well.

 

[YoungDrummer]

The only reason for doing a second degree at the same school is this: you pay undergraduate tuition. Whereas, if you do a post-bacc, you pay graduate tuition. So many students sign up for a second degree. When they finish all the prerequisites and any other courses they want to take, they let the school know that they decided not to complete the degree or they give another excuse for not completing it.

 

[31MDhopeful11]

Forgot to add: many thanks for your service! Hooooooahhh!
The SMP serves as the backdoor to med school, since the faculty at the host program know you. This is why I lean toward them, unless $ is an issue. That's the benefit for DIY post-bac.

Post-bac programs are more for career switchers, and are better than DIY post-bacs because you get advising and sometimes MCAT prep as well.

Thanks again for the response.
Is it safe to assume that those back door masters program, pigeon hole you into only being able to apply for that school?

 

[Goro]

Thanks again for the response.
Is it safe to assume that those back door masters program, pigeon hole you into only being able to apply for that school?

No, not at all. BUT, what choice do you have otherwise?

 

[SubstantialMall7]

Thanks for replying, this helps a ton. I think you're right though. My concern is the undergrad GPA cutoff, that I don't know if the SMP will overcome. There is a dramatic difference between the student I was 12 years ago, and the student I am now, with about 12 years of medic experience in the army.
It isn't much of a "which one I prefer" vs "what I really need to be admitted". I think I would be successful in completion of any post-bacc/SMP/2nd degree, however I feel that most of those are for recent reinvention, not reinvention from more than a decade ago(I could very well be wrong). It's almost like 30 y/o me is suffering the mistakes of 18 y/o me, which I'm not negating that I did terrible the first time around, but now it seems my only options are - I need to do enough course work to erase those mistakes or a special program that overcomes them.

Again, thanks for your time.

Hey, I have a very similar story to you. I grad about 20 years ago and have about 10 years of paramedic experience. uGPA of 2.2 and did my own DIY-postbac because no formal postbac would consider me due to my low uGPA. I just went to a local CC and did a few courses at the local UC school (biochem isn't offered at many CCs and you definitely need this course). My DIY-postbac was a 3.9 and my cGPA was less than a 2.8. My sGPA is a 3.6 because I only took a few science courses in UG.

The fact is you can't erase your past mistakes so don't sweat them. You have to explain yourself in your essay and demonstrate that you can handle the coursework as the person you are now. The great equalizer is the MCAT... if you can score as well as everyone else then you prove you belong regardless of where you went to school or how you finished the prerequisites.

I am applying this cycle so I can't say whether my method ultimately worked, but what I can say is that I applied to about 15 DO schools and 10 MD schools and received secondaries from all but 4 schools so far. I made sure each school I applied to didn't have a hard cutoff for GPA and that they would at least look at my application. This will be listed on each individual schools admissions webpage for the most part.

Hope that helps.

 

[31MDhopeful11]

Hey, I have a very similar story to you. I grad about 20 years ago and have about 10 years of paramedic experience. uGPA of 2.2 and did my own DIY-postbac because no formal postbac would consider me due to my low uGPA. I just went to a local CC and did a few courses at the local UC school (biochem isn't offered at many CCs and you definitely need this course). My DIY-postbac was a 3.9 and my cGPA was less than a 2.8. My sGPA is a 3.6 because I only took a few science courses in UG.

The fact is you can't erase your past mistakes so don't sweat them. You have to explain yourself in your essay and demonstrate that you can handle the coursework as the person you are now. The great equalizer is the MCAT... if you can score as well as everyone else then you prove you belong regardless of where you went to school or how you finished the prerequisites.

I am applying this cycle so I can't say whether my method ultimately worked, but what I can say is that I applied to about 15 DO schools and 10 MD schools and received secondaries from all but 4 schools so far. I made sure each school I applied to didn't have a hard cutoff for GPA and that they would at least look at my application. This will be listed on each individual schools admissions webpage for the most part.

Hope that helps.

That definitely does help. The amount of post-bacc work I would need would be equivalent to a second bachelors, since a masters program of any kind doesn't increase your GPA. I wouldn't oppose doing a SMP, but I only have so much of my GI bill.

If you don't mind, what was your MCAT score? and where all did you apply?

Thanks again for the reply.