Low Gpa/need help

[naypix]

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Hi,

I am currently thinking about joining a program that specializes in helping people create timelines (such as when to take the MCAT, what classes to take, etc.), studying for the MCAT (modules given, what to use/what not to), and assistance with getting through the entire medical school process. The problem is the cost is $4,500. While I think it's a good investment I don't know if how reasonable that price truly is.

So my cGPA is 3.25 and my sGPA is a 2.43 and I am currently a senior. The remaining science classes that I need to graduate are Organic Chemistry 1 and Biochemistry. I was thinking about doing a post-bac or even an SMP to increase my chances of getting into medical school.

However, I was wondering if taking more upper-level science classes, getting A's or no lower than B's, and graduating later is an option? I know medical schools like to see an upward trend. I also thought about retaking courses were I got a C (especially science courses) but on most forums, people advise against that.

Also, I have not taken the MCAT yet.

Edit: General opinion is to use this site to help and not pay the money. Now I am trying to figure out what is the best option, ace senior year & do a post-bac, get sGPA to a 3.0+ before graduating & then do a post-bac (DIY or formal), Peace Corps?.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

You can get lot of free advice here. can you do additional science classes in UG? What's your major?

 

[naypix]

You can get lot of free advice here. can you do additional science classes in UG? What's your major?

Yes, I can I was thinking about staying another year or at least a semester. Some options are pathophysiology, immunology, organic chem 2, Human Physiology, Molecular Biology, etc. I'm a Health Science & Spanish major with a minor in Psychology.

 

[Goro]

Hi,

I am currently thinking about joining a program that specializes in helping people create timelines, studying for the MCAT (modules given), and assistance with getting through the entire medical school process. The problem is the cost is $4,500. While I think it's a good investment I don't know if how reasonable that price truly is.

So my cGPA is 3.18 and my sGPA is a 2.5 and I am currently a senior. The remaining science classes that I need to graduate are Organic Chemistry 1 and Biochemistry. I was thinking about doing a postbacc or even a SMP but those are quite expensive and I cannot afford them. If that's what I have to do in order to improve my chances of getting into medical school then I will.

However, I was wondering if taking more upper-level science classes, getting A's or no lower than B's, and graduating later is an option? I know medical schools like to see an upward trend. I also thought about retaking courses were I got a C (especially science courses) but on most forums, people advise against that.

Any input would help, I don't know if spending $4,500 getting help to make these decisions is worth it. Also, I have not taken the MCAT yet.

You can get the same advice for free here at SDN.

Or are you talking about apost-bac program? For GPA repair?

Read this; cost is nothing. Make a donation to a food bank if you're feeling charitable.

• Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[naypix]

You can get the same advice for free here at SDN.

Or are you talking about apost-bac program? For GPA repair?

Read this; cost is nothing. Make a donation to a food bank if you're feeling charitable.

• Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

No, the program is just a pre-med consultant. Normally they help with the premed process from freshman year up until you get accepted into medical school. Since I'm a senior they would just be helping me make the "right" decisions to getting into medical school, whether that be doing a post-bac program or SMP.

I took a look at the thread you attached and it was helpful. Would you suggest staying another year to take some upper-level science courses or graduating and then doing a DIY post-bac?

Thank you for the help!

 

[Goro]

No, the program is just a pre-med consultant. Normally they help with the premed process from freshman year up until you get accepted into medical school. Since I'm a senior they would just be helping me make the "right" decisions to getting into medical school, whether that be doing a post-bac program or SMP.

I took a look at the thread you attached and it was helpful. Would you suggest staying another year to take some upper-level science courses or graduating and then doing a DIY post-bac?

Thank you for the help!

What are your year by year GPAs? Each year, not the cumulative.

EDIT: and save your money with the consultant. That's just flushing it down the toilet. Take your mom our for Mother's Day instead once COVID is over.

 

[naypix]

What are your year by year GPAs? Each year, not the cumulative.

EDIT: and save your money with the consultant. That's just flushing it down the toilet. Take your mom our for Mother's Day instead once COVID is over.

Freshman 3.47
Sophomore 2.75
Junior 3.29
- I took Gen Chem 1 & 2 at a community college (3.5 GPA) but my school only transfers credits, not grades.
Senior TBD

 

[Goro]

Freshman 3.47
Sophomore 2.75
Junior 3.29
- I took Gen Chem 1 & 2 at a community college (3.5 GPA) but my school only transfers credits, not grades.
Senior TBD

Medical School application Services don't care about your school's policy towards transfer grades. Your community college grades will count towards your GPA. So please recalculate, and also provide science GPA as well as cumulative GPA for each year

 

[naypix]

Medical School application Services don't care about your school's policy towards transfer grades. Your community college grades will count towards your GPA. So please recalculate, and also provide science GPA as well as cumulative GPA for each year

Thanks for pointing that out. I did a study abroad twice, the first time they included my actual grades, and the second time they entered it as credit received. Would I have to somehow get ahold of my transcript from the University of Costa Rica? But I recalculated using the actual grades from the study abroad and community college. I made a mistake as well my sGPA is 2.43.

Freshman
cGPA: 3.52
sGPA: 2.0

Sophomore
cGPA: 3.09
sGPA: 2.0

Junior
cGPA: 3.33
sGPA: 3.0

Freshman - Junior:
cGPA: 3.25
sGPA: 2.43

 

[swimwreck]

How many more science classes do you need to take, to get the science GPA above a 3.0? A sGPA that low looks really bad. Like I doubt you can get in anywhere with a 2.4.

I would definitely graduate a year later by taking more upper level science classes, and making sure you pull your sGPA up. Maybe take a semester break or something and evaluate if you really want to do this. Don't pay the $4,500 for advice. Just look here or on reddit.

 

[Goro]

Thanks for pointing that out. I did a study abroad twice, the first time they included my actual grades, and the second time they entered it as credit received. Would I have to somehow get ahold of my transcript from the University of Costa Rica? But I recalculated using the actual grades from the study abroad and community college. I made a mistake as well my sGPA is 2.43.

Freshman
cGPA: 3.52
sGPA: 2.0

Sophomore
cGPA: 3.09
sGPA: 2.0

Junior
cGPA: 3.33
sGPA: 3.0

Freshman - Junior:
cGPA: 3.25
sGPA: 2.43

I suggest that you ace your SR year and then do a post-bac program.

 

[naypix]

How many more science classes do you need to take, to get the science GPA above a 3.0? A sGPA that low looks really bad. Like I doubt you can get in anywhere with a 2.4.

I would definitely graduate a year later by taking more upper level science classes, and making sure you pull your sGPA up. Maybe take a semester break or something and evaluate if you really want to do this. Don't pay the $4,500 for advice. Just look here or on reddit.

To get at least a 3.0 I need 4 classes with A's. I am currently registered for Organic Chem 1 (Fall) & Biochem (Spring) and would need two more after that. Another semester taking 3 would get me to a 3.21 if I get all A's.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[EthylMethylMan]

IMO programs like the one you're describing are really only useful when you have difficulty sticking to schedules on your own. Reason being, like everyone else said, you can get study plans and resources for the MCAT/pre-med courses on this site for free.

That being said, if you do have a hard time sticking to a schedule, that's going to be a major obstacle once you're an M1. You get an awful lot of autonomy in med school. The expectation is that you study for hours and hours on your own, and generally you need to organize a study schedule, at least vaguely, in order to hit everything for each exam. Point is, if you think you need external help to make and keep a study plan, that's really something you'd need to address before getting into med school.

 

[Big Tall Doctor]

Be glad your starting cgpa isn't below 3.0!! sgpa is alot easier to repair. If you are looking for advice on planning out your life within the next 3 years, as @Goro says, it's a race not a sprint. That being said, I would opt to take as many science courses while still putting yourself in a position to succeed with your undergrad and prolong graduation. My reasoning is some post bacc opportunities, especially "DIY post baccs" aren't elligible for financial aid which can really mess up this great plan you got brewing. Be careful with overloading with too many science classes to finish your senior year as historically you aren't the strongest at them. I waited until after my MCAT testing to start my post bacc because I developed new study skills that transformed me as a student, and I used the post bacc to showcase that! I would aim for a sgpa>3.2 (some DO schools autoreject <3.2)
What science classes to take? Start looking at the recommended pre requirements for MD vs DO (pretty similar), I say this because you currently don't have O chem 2 slotted to be taken before graduation when most schools require it. You would be killing 2 birds with one stone. But be careful man, the next few years are going to be rough, you have to show to some random stranger that you are about to reach your academic peak, not falling downhill. sgpa is usually lower for a reason, the classes are tough and you have to be mad with passion to take 3-4 of them at the same time. I wish you the best of luck and make sure you are mentally ready for what lies ahead!

 

[Select All That Apply]

@naypix Imo you should complete graduation as soon as possible and start working. If you are multilingual, then there should be plenty of opportunities for you to find work inside or outside of healthcare. People on this site rarely acknowledge opportunity cost when giving advice because it's not their time, not their money, and not their life when it comes to encouraging other people to throw a hail mary,

So I went digging. Before you started your junior year, you wrote in a post that you had difficulty in your science classes because of personal issues and a lack of studying/effort. That was your baseline concept for why you failed. Then you had a junior semester in which you took three classes, two of which were genetics and general chemistry. This comes out to a 12-14 credit semester which is honestly on the low side. And you ended that year with a 3.33/3.0 which is also honestly on the low side. So here's the thing. In your other post, you acknowledge that you don't do well in your science classes and even with a low course load in one semester you still ended up with a 3.0 sGPA. However, you do really well in your Spanish classes and you seem like you enjoy your study abroad experience in these Latin American territories.

I don't really buy into the idea that there is merit in forcing the square peg into the round hole. I think it's foolish and I think it's expensive. I think that if you can focus on graduating your senior year then it would be way better than taking a gap year as you are just starting to take organic chemistry and biochemistry in your fourth year at university. I don't think that you have sufficient self concept to actually tackle these courses and be successful. And I think that because you acknowledged what you thought were shortcomings in your junior year and you still weren't able to show mastery over the content. It doesn't matter if you believe you can do it, if you can't actually do it.

I don't think you should give up on medical school. I think that if you continue to force it, you will be a martyr for a cause that does not need a sacrifice. I think that there is a lot to gain from working a year or two and taking a few steps back before deciding whether this is the best application of what you are really proficient in.

 

[naypix]

@naypix Imo you should complete graduation as soon as possible and start working. If you are multilingual, then there should be plenty of opportunities for you to find work inside or outside of healthcare. People on this site rarely acknowledge opportunity cost when giving advice because it's not their time, not their money, and not their life when it comes to encouraging other people to throw a hail mary,

So I went digging. Before you started your junior year, you wrote in a post that you had difficulty in your science classes because of personal issues and a lack of studying/effort. That was your baseline concept for why you failed. Then you had a junior semester in which you took three classes, two of which were genetics and general chemistry. This comes out to a 12-14 credit semester which is honestly on the low side. And you ended that year with a 3.33/3.0 which is also honestly on the low side. So here's the thing. In your other post, you acknowledge that you don't do well in your science classes and even with a low course load in one semester you still ended up with a 3.0 sGPA. However, you do really well in your Spanish classes and you seem like you enjoy your study abroad experience in these Latin American territories.

I don't really buy into the idea that there is merit in forcing the square peg into the round hole. I think it's foolish and I think it's expensive. I think that if you can focus on graduating your senior year then it would be way better than taking a gap year as you are just starting to take organic chemistry and biochemistry in your fourth year at university. I don't think that you have sufficient self concept to actually tackle these courses and be successful. And I think that because you acknowledged what you thought were shortcomings in your junior year and you still weren't able to show mastery over the content. It doesn't matter if you believe you can do it, if you can't actually do it.

I don't think you should give up on medical school. I think that if you continue to force it, you will be a martyr for a cause that does not need a sacrifice. I think that there is a lot to gain from working a year or two and taking a few steps back before deciding whether this is the best application of what you are really proficient in.

I was also considering working for some time. I am CNA certified and was thinking about returning to work for a year while I figure things out.

I forgot about that post. Several things changed after I posted that, I have addressed & continue to address my personal issues/lack of effort & studying but that did not happen until the end of my fall semester junior year. That fall I took Precalculus & Genetics. At the time two classes were all I could handle and to be honest I could hardly handle those. In the spring I took 3 classes and got a 4.0 all upper level, not science related though. I ended up taking three classes over the summer, two of which being Gen Chem 1&2. From both chemistry classes, I got a 3.5 GPA, not the best but for sure an improvement compared to my past science grades. Entering my senior year I am aiming to continue to do better, my grades are strong and I plan to keep them that way.

I do enjoy the experience in Latin territories, which is why I considered doing the Peace Corps for two years and then going to Medical school. But with an sGPA as low as mine I would need to do a post-bac before or after I would go to the Peace Corps. Since I don't think getting my sGPA to a 3.0+ before graduating & leaving for the Peace Corps would allow me to get into MD school.

As for taking Organic Chem & Biochemistry so late, that was my fault. I should have done a much better job at planning out my courses from Freshman year to Senior year and not relying on the help of my academic advisor. However, I currently have an A in Organic Chemistry and am working hard to keep it there.

I appreciate your advice and will consider it along with the other options that were suggested, thank you.

 

[naypix]

Be glad your starting cgpa isn't below 3.0!! sgpa is alot easier to repair. If you are looking for advice on planning out your life within the next 3 years, as @Goro says, it's a race not a sprint. That being said, I would opt to take as many science courses while still putting yourself in a position to succeed with your undergrad and prolong graduation. My reasoning is some post bacc opportunities, especially "DIY post baccs" aren't elligible for financial aid which can really mess up this great plan you got brewing. Be careful with overloading with too many science classes to finish your senior year as historically you aren't the strongest at them. I waited until after my MCAT testing to start my post bacc because I developed new study skills that transformed me as a student, and I used the post bacc to showcase that! I would aim for a sgpa>3.2 (some DO schools autoreject <3.2)
What science classes to take? Start looking at the recommended pre requirements for MD vs DO (pretty similar), I say this because you currently don't have O chem 2 slotted to be taken before graduation when most schools require it. You would be killing 2 birds with one stone. But be careful man, the next few years are going to be rough, you have to show to some random stranger that you are about to reach your academic peak, not falling downhill. sgpa is usually lower for a reason, the classes are tough and you have to be mad with passion to take 3-4 of them at the same time. I wish you the best of luck and make sure you are mentally ready for what lies ahead!

I am heavily leaning towards the option of graduating later and getting my sGPA to a 3.0+. As you mentioned DYI post-bacs are not eligible for financial aid making it be quite costly. Plus community colleges in my area do not offer many upper-level science courses while my current university does. Trust me I have no plans on taking more science classes than I know I can handle. I am doing better in science courses now than I ever have before and don’t want to mess that by taking on more than I can handle. I like how you took the MCAT before starting your post-bac. As for the 3.2 sgpa where you referring to getting that in undergrad?

I am registered to take Organic Chem 2 spring semester, but I will definitely double-check the requirements to make sure I have everything I need.

Thank you!

 

[Select All That Apply]

@naypix It's good to know that you're doing well in Organic Chemistry, considering you just started the course... two weeks ago? Therefore, you attended classes, did your homework on fischer/chair conformation, answered some clicker questions, and then took a quiz. So, an inductive reasoning piece for me is to determine why you're telling me that you have an A when honestly everyone should have an A right now in your class even if they are intentionally throwing because of how much weight is usually given to factors like attending class and being a human being when it comes to the early stages of the game.

When it comes to problem solving, I tend to be a process-based person. And I do not think that you have gamed this out. The advantage that you have as a health science/Spanish dual major is that you don't need Organic Chemistry or Biochemistry. And the benefit to not taking them in your final course load is that you can finish so strong with your health sciences/Spanish course load in your last year and inflate that cGPA as high as you can before you graduate. You're going to be taking extra years in order to complete school. So you should save the science courses that you are not currently good at as a reserve bank for you to take later. By forcing them in right now, you are intentionally depleting BCPM/sGPA resources that you could tackle on later on your own terms when you have a more structured plan of what the course is about, what will be on the tests (within a certain margin of error), and how does this fit into a more concrete plan for you to get into medical school.

I have a feeling that you are shooting yourself in the foot. You're taking a sparse amount of science classes, when most students take a concentration of Biology, Chemistry, Mathematics, and Physics as a complete block series in the first year typically. Sometimes three out of four, but two out of four is a little on the short side. When you take summer classes and these classes are your only classes, you should be nailing it. When adcoms review your file especially on applicants with performance issues, they don't just evaluate the courses as singular entities. The concept of rigor takes into account overall credit load for the semester, the relative rigor of the classes taken, the concentration of science classes, and also how the individual was or was not able to perform on their core classes. You're looking at this system as a single player, but you're not taking into account that getting into a medical program is very much a multiplayer game.

I think your concept of failure is not being able to game out this idealized scenario where you manage to squeak on by with pre-recs within a self-designated time period. My concept of your failure is that you are successful in fulfilling what you want to do. If you're successful in passing with B's in Organic and Biochemistry (based on your G. Chem score), then you likely can't do a basic science post bac. You also restrict yourself in what you can use to prove yourself in your DIY post-bac and in the worst case scenario you may have to rely on Level 200 to Level 400 biology/chemistry courses some of which can be masters courses and can be an absolute nightmare to perform in compared to what you are doing right now. And by the time you reach that point, you probably could have aced any of these basic science classes.

 

[naypix]

@naypix It's good to know that you're doing well in Organic Chemistry, considering you just started the course... two weeks ago? Therefore, you attended classes, did your homework on fischer/chair conformation, answered some clicker questions, and then took a quiz. So, an inductive reasoning piece for me is to determine why you're telling me that you have an A when honestly everyone should have an A right now in your class even if they are intentionally throwing because of how much weight is usually given to factors like attending class and being a human being when it comes to the early stages of the game.

When it comes to problem solving, I tend to be a process-based person. And I do not think that you have gamed this out. The advantage that you have as a health science/Spanish dual major is that you don't need Organic Chemistry or Biochemistry. And the benefit to not taking them in your final course load is that you can finish so strong with your health sciences/Spanish course load in your last year and inflate that cGPA as high as you can before you graduate. You're going to be taking extra years in order to complete school. So you should save the science courses that you are not currently good at as a reserve bank for you to take later. By forcing them in right now, you are intentionally depleting BCPM/sGPA resources that you could tackle on later on your own terms later on when you have a more structures plan of what you should be doing.

I have a feeling that you are shooting yourself in the foot. You're taking a sparse amount of science classes, when most students take a concentration of Biology, Chemistry, Mathematics, and Physics as a complete block series in the first year typically. Sometimes three out of four, but two out of four is a little on the short side. When you take summer classes and these classes are your only classes, you should be nailing it. When adcoms review your file especially on applicants with performance issues, they don't just evaluate the courses as singular entities. The concept of rigor takes into account overall credit load for the semester, the relative rigor of the classes taken, the concentration of science classes, and also how the individual was or was not able to perform on their core classes. You're looking at this system as a single player, but you're not taking into account that getting into a medical program is very much a multiplayer game.

I think your concept of failure is not being able to game out this idealized scenario where you manage to squeak on by with pre-recs within a self-designated time period. My concept of your failure is that you are successful in fulfilling what you want to do. If you're successful in passing with B's in Organic and Biochemistry (based on your G. Chem score), then you likely can't do a basic science post bac. You also restrict yourself in what you can use to prove yourself in your DIY post-bac and in the worst case scenario you may have to rely on Level 200 to Level 400 biology/chemistry courses some of which can be masters courses and can be an absolute nightmare to perform in compared to what you are doing right now. And by the time you reach that point, you probably could have aced any of these basic science classes.

I have been in the course a little over a month, homework/attendance does not count for many points. I took my first exam and got an A. I'm aware that it's still the beginning of the course but I'm doing better than I used to. In previous science courses, I would get a B or C on the first test...I was just happy that I started off on the right foot for once instead of the wrong one.

My school requires that as a Health Science major you take Organic Chem 1 & Biochemistry to graduate. This is why I am currently taking Organic Chemistry now because I had planned to graduate in May. But after realizing that may not be the best option for me I had already began Organic Chem. I finished my Spanish major with a 3.7 GPA in the spring.