Low GPA Non-Trad App

[JSainte]

Just a few thoughts...

Graduated DePaul last year with a 3.0. About to start pre-med post-bacc at Northwestern. Realizing how little even straight A's are going to really impact my GPA overall. Feeling slightly discouraged. However, after a stroll on MDapps, realizing that some of the schools I'd like to go to seem to have a wide array of GPA's and MCAT scores. Doing what I can GPA wise, but trying to make the application sparkle in other ways (volunteering, EMT work, shadowing, etc.) and I intend to own the MCAT, even if prepping for it nearly kills me.

Anyone else in my boat?

 

[Excelsius]

Just a few thoughts...

Graduated DePaul last year with a 3.0. About to start pre-med post-bacc at Northwestern. Realizing how little even straight A's are going to really impact my GPA overall. Feeling slightly discouraged. However, after a stroll on MDapps, realizing that some of the schools I'd like to go to seem to have a wide array of GPA's and MCAT scores. Doing what I can GPA wise, but trying to make the application sparkle in other ways (volunteering, EMT work, shadowing, etc.) and I intend to own the MCAT, even if prepping for it nearly kills me.

Anyone else in my boat?

With your BA, you likely have not taken many science courses or pre-reqs. As such, you might be able to have a great science GPA and more or less offset your cGPA.

And yes, there are SDNers in the same boat. My situation is similar, except that I have about two years of undergrad still left to really bring up mine. which still won't be too high, but the upward trend is very important as well. Some schools place twice the weight or more on your upper division work than on the lower division one. If you can manage a good MCAT score, like 34+, you should have a shot at some schools. Depends on how you do on your postbacc. As for DO schools, you could easily get into one if you retake some of the courses. I actually could have applied and gotten into a DO this year, but it is my decision to shoot for an MD and sacrifice the two years. If you are considering DO and want to know pros/cons, let me know.

 

[JSainte]

With your BA, you likely have not taken many science courses or pre-reqs. As such, you might be able to have a great science GPA and more or less offset your cGPA.

And yes, there are SDNers in the same boat. My situation is similar, except that I have about two years of undergrad still left to really bring up mine. which still won't be too high, but the upward trend is very important as well. Some schools place twice the weight or more on your upper division work than on the lower division one. If you can manage a good MCAT score, like 34+, you should have a shot at some schools. Depends on how you do on your postbacc. As for DO schools, you could easily get into one if you retake some of the courses. I actually could have applied and gotten into a DO this year, but it is my decision to shoot for an MD and sacrifice the two years. If you are considering DO and want to know pros/cons, let me know.

I've heard that about the 'upward trend', its significance, that is. I'm hoping that will help because I've made sure that school is top priority this time, by not working FT for once in my life. Also, I have only taken the basic community college bio and chm (which weren't even university level) back in the day, so I'm hoping to have a mind-blowing sGPA. You really think that makes a big impact? I hope so.

I am considering D.O. actually. I'd love to hear some pros/cons, as the basic info I have thus far is OMT/preventative care, and the 'prestige' that comes with M.D., in addition to it's competitiveness and effect on residencies.

It's great that you have some time to up that GPA. I'll probably apply to some schools next year (M.D. and D.O) and see where it gets me and what I want at that point. I could always go another year of classes and see what it does, or even a masters if I'm not satisified. I just hate to put it off further.

 

[njbmd]

I am considering D.O. actually. I'd love to hear some pros/cons, as the basic info I have thus far is OMT/preventative care, and the 'prestige' that comes with M.D., in addition to it's competitiveness and effect on residencies.

At the end of the day, the question becomes, "Do you want to become a physician or are you stuck on what initials are behind your name?" If you want to become a physician and treat patients, you won't see any "cons" to being an osteopathic physician unless they are the "cons" of being a physician. You certainly won't see in "prestige" in being an MD.As an MD,I don't perform a fem-distal bypass any differently than my colleague who graduated from osteopathic medical school. We don't write any orders differently and certainly, our licenses to practice medicine are exactly the same.

I can tell you that most people who enter medical school are not going to be even close to being competitive for the super-competitive residencies. They are going to be fine for most things but derm, ophtho, and ortho are probably going to be out of reach. This is true whether you are allopathic or osteopathic. If you are in that small minority that happens to be competitive for derm, optho or ortho, it won't matter if you attended allopathic or osteopathic medical school.

You can sit around and listen to the jive that states that if you attend osteopathic medical school, you are somehow inferior to allopathic or limited in your choices of residency when in effect, your performance in medical school, osteopathic or allopathic, will be the most limiting factor in your residency choices. Bottom line, get into any medical school (osteopathic or allopathic) and be ready to work like you have never worked before. If you can perform at a high level, you will have choices. Otherwise, you are limiting yourself by misinformation.

If you truly wish to practice medicine, especially in 2009, you will attend any medical school in this country that will accept you. This is your biggest hurdle as contemplating anything beyond that, such as residency choice or residency competitiveness at this stage is a waste of time and energy.

 

[JSainte]

At the end of the day, the question becomes, "Do you want to become a physician or are you stuck on what initials are behind your name?" If you want to become a physician and treat patients, you won't see any "cons" to being an osteopathic physician unless they are the "cons" of being a physician. You certainly won't see in "prestige" in being an MD.As an MD,I don't perform a fem-distal bypass any differently than my colleague who graduated from osteopathic medical school. We don't write any orders differently and certainly, our licenses to practice medicine are exactly the same.

I can tell you that most people who enter medical school are not going to be even close to being competitive for the super-competitive residencies. They are going to be fine for most things but derm, ophtho, and ortho are probably going to be out of reach. This is true whether you are allopathic or osteopathic. If you are in that small minority that happens to be competitive for derm, optho or ortho, it won't matter if you attended allopathic or osteopathic medical school.

You can sit around and listen to the jive that states that if you attend osteopathic medical school, you are somehow inferior to allopathic or limited in your choices of residency when in effect, your performance in medical school, osteopathic or allopathic, will be the most limiting factor in your residency choices. Bottom line, get into any medical school (osteopathic or allopathic) and be ready to work like you have never worked before. If you can perform at a high level, you will have choices. Otherwise, you are limiting yourself by misinformation.

If you truly wish to practice medicine, especially in 2009, you will attend any medical school in this country that will accept you. This is your biggest hurdle as contemplating anything beyond that, such as residency choice or residency competitiveness at this stage is a waste of time and energy.

I absolutely agree with you. A doctor is a doctor and when I do finally apply, it will be to both M.D. and D.O. schools. I was simply curious to know more about D.O., as I haven't done as much research into those programs as I have M.D.

 

[Excelsius]

At the end of the day, the question becomes, "Do you want to become a physician or are you stuck on what initials are behind your name?" If you want to become a physician and treat patients, you won't see any "cons" to being an osteopathic physician unless they are the "cons" of being a physician. You certainly won't see in "prestige" in being an MD.As an MD,I don't perform a fem-distal bypass any differently than my colleague who graduated from osteopathic medical school. We don't write any orders differently and certainly, our licenses to practice medicine are exactly the same.

I can tell you that most people who enter medical school are not going to be even close to being competitive for the super-competitive residencies. They are going to be fine for most things but derm, ophtho, and ortho are probably going to be out of reach. This is true whether you are allopathic or osteopathic. If you are in that small minority that happens to be competitive for derm, optho or ortho, it won't matter if you attended allopathic or osteopathic medical school.

You can sit around and listen to the jive that states that if you attend osteopathic medical school, you are somehow inferior to allopathic or limited in your choices of residency when in effect, your performance in medical school, osteopathic or allopathic, will be the most limiting factor in your residency choices. Bottom line, get into any medical school (osteopathic or allopathic) and be ready to work like you have never worked before. If you can perform at a high level, you will have choices. Otherwise, you are limiting yourself by misinformation.

If you truly wish to practice medicine, especially in 2009, you will attend any medical school in this country that will accept you. This is your biggest hurdle as contemplating anything beyond that, such as residency choice or residency competitiveness at this stage is a waste of time and energy.

I agree with what you say to a point. Once you are a practicing doctor, MD vs DO matters very little. The concern has to do with getting a residency in various competitive specialties. So if someone is shooting for primary care or something similar, there is no need to go to an MD. DO is just the same. I could even say the same thing about Caribbean schools. On the other hand, if you are shooting for competitive specialties, such as ROAD, then you will be at a disadvantage from a DO. Hell, even the name of your medschool (MD) comes into play for some of those residencies, much less a DO. I have also read several times how some program directors look down at DOs, in addition to lower ranked MD schools. So you are right to a point, but things are not really that clear cut.

OP, here are the main arguments I have encountered against DOs. As you read through this, don't forget what was already said above, including the points that njbmd brought up:

Why not DO?

1. They are focused on primary care and if someone wants to go to NS, for example, it will be very difficult since there might not be any neurosurgeons in the school who could write a good LOR, even if Step 1 scores are high. This will be fine if you are headed for PC, but otherwise, it is not the main function of DOs to focus on specialties. (some are more concentrated on FM than others).
2. The stigma/bias associated with the degree among some patients and medical communities, even if restricted to certain geographic regions
3. DO schools don't concentrate on USMLE as MD schools do. Therefore, it may be more difficult to get high test scores required for some specialties.
4. Due to the DO school focus, it might be hard to do research there in some specialties like NS.
5. Since most program directors are MDs themselves, they will be more inclined to choose an MD, rather than a DO. And there are already plenty of MDs competing for ROADS residencies.
6. The recommendation letters from DOs, even assuming you can find an neurosurgeon DO at your schools, will not have the same weight as a recommendation from a famous MD neurosurgeon.
7. The perception of how smart you are as evaluated by your LOR writer, such as a neurosurgeon, has an important role in ROADS residencies. Therefore, it is possible that attending a DO school might create a bias that "you were not smart enough for MD" and can be detrimental.
8. As more MD schools are being built while MD residency spots are not being increased as much, it means that there will be more MDs competing for MD spots in the future. Some estimates say that due to the increase, there may be as much as 40% cut in IMG residencies by 2015 to satisfy the demands of US graduates. Since most IMGs go into primary, it is likely that most of these reassigned spots will be allocated to DO students, making DOs even more heavily concentrated in PC.
9. DOs are not recognized internationally and you can't practice in another country if one day you find yourself forced to move somewhere else (or maybe collaborate on an international research). Still, not all countries recognize MDs either.

 

[JSainte]

Excelsius,

That's exactly my worry. I have little-to-no interest in family practice. My interests, at least at this point, are surgery and emergency medicine. While I don't know that, or can't prove that favoritism is given to MDs over DOs, I can only assume it would be because MDs, for the most part, had higher GPAs and had to fight tougher applicants to get where they are.

Also, I did not know DOs couldn't practice outside the country, which is good to know.

For now I will be focusing on the upward trend and the application 'extras' as much as possible.

Thanks so much for your posts, both of you.

 

[Nasrudin]

Why not DO?

1. They are focused on primary care and if someone wants to go to NS, for example, it will be very difficult since there might not be any neurosurgeons in the school who could write a good LOR, even if Step 1 scores are high. This will be fine if you are headed for PC, but otherwise, it is not the main function of DOs to focus on specialties. (some are more concentrated on FM than others).
2. The stigma/bias associated with the degree among some patients and medical communities, even if restricted to certain geographic regions
3. DO schools don't concentrate on USMLE as MD schools do. Therefore, it may be more difficult to get high test scores required for some specialties.
4. Due to the DO school focus, it might be hard to do research there in some specialties like NS.
5. Since most program directors are MDs themselves, they will be more inclined to choose an MD, rather than a DO. And there are already plenty of MDs competing for ROADS residencies.
6. The recommendation letters from DOs, even assuming you can find an neurosurgeon DO at your schools, will not have the same weight as a recommendation from a famous MD neurosurgeon.
7. The perception of how smart you are as evaluated by your LOR writer, such as a neurosurgeon, has an important role in ROADS residencies. Therefore, it is possible that attending a DO school might create a bias that "you were not smart enough for MD" and can be detrimental.
8. As more MD schools are being built while MD residency spots are not being increased as much, it means that there will be more MDs competing for MD spots in the future. Some estimates say that due to the increase, there may be as much as 40% cut in IMG residencies by 2015 to satisfy the demands of US graduates. Since most IMGs go into primary, it is likely that most of these reassigned spots will be allocated to DO students, making DOs even more heavily concentrated in PC.
9. DOs are not recognized internationally and you can't practice in another country if one day you find yourself forced to move somewhere else (or maybe collaborate on an international research). Still, not all countries recognize MDs either.

I can remember thinking this. A fine academic rebuttal. But just that. A US medical grad with a fine performance under their belt has choices. Are they all first class tickets...perhaps not. But they go to the same place.

The limiting reagent as indicated by a real working vascular surgeon is human effort and talent not initials after the name.

And her point about things being a waste of energy when they're out of season. I finally get that. After mainly pointless hours or pondering just such things as you're saying here.

It's impossible to know where you're head will be at when an if such things will in fact matter. You may be ready for peds on an Indian reservation--in which case the line will be quite short. You may just very well s@ck in comparison to your physician colleagues--academically speaking. All sorts of water will have passed under the bridge before it even matters to think of it like a premed.

The rate-limiting step. Is getting into medical school. Any US medical school.

 

[njbmd]

On the other hand, if you are shooting for competitive specialties, such as ROAD, then you will be at a disadvantage from a DO. Hell, even the name of your medschool (MD) comes into play for some of those residencies, much less a DO. I have also read several times how some program directors look down at DOs, in addition to lower ranked MD schools. So you are right to a point, but things are not really that clear cut.

There are DO residencies in radiology, ortho, neurosurg, derm and any other specialty that are not even open to allopathic medical school graduates. If you are a top graduate of an osteopathic medical school and wish to enter these residencies, as an osteopathic physician, you WILL be competitive for them. Osteopathic program directors do not look down upon osteopathic medical school graduates because allopathic medical school grads aren't even in the running for these slots which are competitive.

Attending an osteopathic medical school no more limits one to primary care than those who are going to be limited to primary care as allopathic medical grads i.e. those who won't have the grades and board scores to enter the more competitive slots. Your limits are the same at any medical school regardless of allopathic or osteopathic which largely comes down to your performance in your academics at said school. Top performance on boards and academics will trump out school (said as I twirl my Alpha Omega Alpha key). I know what residency doors opened for me because of my academics, from experience and not from reading.

If you want to be a neurosurgeon, you can be an osteopathic neurosurgeon. If you want to be a dermatologist, you can be an osteopathic dermatologist. In short, you can enter the specialty of your choice regardless of your medical degree as long as you have the grades and interest. There are a fair number of osteopathic medical grads that have no interest in allopathic residencies which is fine because they have plenty of osteopathic residencies that aren't open to allopathic (or foreign grads) for that matter.

If you want to practice medicine (and any specialty), get into any medical school in this country that will accept you and be prepared to rise to the top of the class.

 

[Excelsius]

There are DO residencies in radiology, ortho, neurosurg, derm and any other specialty that are not even open to allopathic medical school graduates. If you are a top graduate of an osteopathic medical school and wish to enter these residencies, as an osteopathic physician, you WILL be competitive for them. Osteopathic program directors do not look down upon osteopathic medical school graduates because allopathic medical school grads aren't even in the running for these slots which are competitive.

Attending an osteopathic medical school no more limits one to primary care than those who are going to be limited to primary care as allopathic medical grads i.e. those who won't have the grades and board scores to enter the more competitive slots. Your limits are the same at any medical school regardless of allopathic or osteopathic which largely comes down to your performance in your academics at said school. Top performance on boards and academics will trump out school (said as I twirl my Alpha Omega Alpha key). I know what residency doors opened for me because of my academics, from experience and not from reading.

If you want to be a neurosurgeon, you can be an osteopathic neurosurgeon. If you want to be a dermatologist, you can be an osteopathic dermatologist. In short, you can enter the specialty of your choice regardless of your medical degree as long as you have the grades and interest. There are a fair number of osteopathic medical grads that have no interest in allopathic residencies which is fine because they have plenty of osteopathic residencies that aren't open to allopathic (or foreign grads) for that matter.

If you want to practice medicine (and any specialty), get into any medical school in this country that will accept you and be prepared to rise to the top of the class.

This is not what I have gathered from what residents and attendings have posted. Are you a DO? What can you tell me about my points 1 to 8 mentioned in the previous post? You seem to be saying that basically I am wasting my time by doing extra work to be competitive for MD schools because MDs and DOs have the exact same opportunities. This is not the consensus on this forum. It is even difficult to get into a competitive residency if the rank of your MD school is not high enough. What are your sources?

Spending an extra year trying to get into an MD school when the DO school is exactly the same would make one a fool. To me, this is far from being the case, but I am open to looking at evidence and being proven wrong.

 

[Nasrudin]

This is not what I have gathered from what residents and attendings have posted. Are you a DO? What can you tell me about my points 1 to 8 mentioned in the previous post? You seem to be saying that basically I am wasting my time by doing extra work to be competitive for MD schools because MDs and DOs have the exact same opportunities. This is not the consensus on this forum. It is even difficult to get into a competitive residency if the rank of your MD school is not high enough. What are your sources?

Spending an extra year trying to get into an MD school when the DO school is exactly the same would make one a fool. To me, this is far from being the case, but I am open to looking at evidence and being proven wrong.

You are looking at the situation differently than she is. So it cannot be demonstrated to you by your own criteria. She moved the ranks to bang down the opportunity to be where she is. To her talent and discipline are what matters period.

You, on the other hand, are making extrapolations from the data here such as it is, and are approaching the problem like an experienced poker player. Asking what are the odds of the next turn.

You are at an impasse. You make your own choice on how to invest your time and resources. And certainly your approach seems like it might work for you.

Me. I'm going where I get in. And will be happy to be underway at last. Where ever I end up. Lovely. As long as it means moving on from here. Cause being a premed gets old. Another year as a premed and I may just gut myself with my own sword.

 

[Excelsius]

You are looking at the situation differently than she is. So it cannot be demonstrated to you by your own criteria. She moved the ranks to bang down the opportunity to be where she is. To her talent and discipline are what matters period.

You, on the other hand, are making extrapolations from the data here such as it is, and are approaching the problem like an experienced poker player. Asking what are the odds of the next turn.

You are at an impasse. You make your own choice on how to invest your time and resources. And certainly your approach seems like it might work for you.

Me. I'm going where I get in. And will be happy to be underway at last. Where ever I end up. Lovely. As long as it means moving on from here. Cause being a premed gets old. Another year as a premed and I may just gut myself with my own sword.

Hahahaha. Well, maybe I have not been on the premed path long enough to have the desire of execution vs DO.

I think that if after all my work I cannot gain an MD admission right away and face either an SMP or DO, I might be too fed up to pursue the SMP. Even as of now, I don't think I will have the desire to do an expensive SMP. Had it covered my first year of medschool so that I could start at MS2 without wasting more time and money, then fine. Otherwise, I don't see the point of doing the first year of medschool without getting an acknoweldgement from medschools.

So have you been trying to get into medschool since 2006? What do you think prevents you from getting in? I am assuming that you are going to apply to MDs as well as DOs and go MD if you get accepted, right? If it truly didn't matter, then you could apply DO only.

And again, the general concept that with hard work you can get anywhere from anywhere is a generally accepted theory in the US. By the same analogy, you can go to Carib schools and get into any specialty from there as well. It will be much harder than from the DO, but it is still possible. Just like it is harder from DO, but it is still possible. All I am trying to do is circumvent an extra layer of possible hindrance.

 

[Nasrudin]

Hahahaha. Well, maybe I have not been on the premed path long enough to have the desire of execution vs DO.

I think that if after all my work I cannot gain an MD admission right away and face either an SMP or DO, I might be too fed up to pursue the SMP. Even as of now, I don't think I will have the desire to do an expensive SMP. Had it covered my first year of medschool so that I could start at MS2 without wasting more time and money, then fine. Otherwise, I don't see the point of doing the first year of medschool without getting an acknoweldgement from medschools.

So have you been trying to get into medschool since 2006? What do you think prevents you from getting in? I am assuming that you are going to apply to MDs as well as DOs and go MD if you get accepted, right? If it truly didn't matter, then you could apply DO only.

And again, the general concept that with hard work you can get anywhere from anywhere is a generally accepted theory in the US. By the same analogy, you can go to Carib schools and get into any specialty from there as well. It will be much harder than from the DO, but it is still possible. Just like it is harder from DO, but it is still possible. All I am trying to do is circumvent an extra layer of possible hindrance.

I can dig your perspective.

Dude, I've been a premed for 7 years or so. I'm the Bato on block 9 that's never gettin out of this mf'er. Thug life man.

And it just makes me feel like....GET ME OUTTA HERE!!!

So yeah I'll be applying until I can't get anyone else to loan me money to do so and then I'll stop in the sand....look up at the sun. And say. That's it. Either some strange caravan happens by or this thing dies right here. Forever.

But to be completely unridiculous. Yes MD if accepted. For better location selection for residency. Not for specialty accessibility. My wife needs access to coastal cosmopolitan markets for her work.

But still. njbmd's point is still equally valid as your own. it's just a question of perspective and approach.

 

[Excelsius]

I can dig your perspective.

Dude, I've been a premed for 7 years or so. I'm the Bato on block 9 that's never gettin out of this mf'er. Thug life man.

And it just makes me feel like....GET ME OUTTA HERE!!!

So yeah I'll be applying until I can't get anyone else to loan me money to do so and then I'll stop in the sand....look up at the sun. And say. That's it. Either some strange caravan happens by or this thing dies right here. Forever.

But to be completely unridiculous. Yes MD if accepted. For better location selection for residency. Not for specialty accessibility. My wife needs access to coastal cosmopolitan markets for her work.

But still. njbmd's point is still equally valid as your own. it's just a question of perspective and approach.

Sent you a PM.

 

[njbmd]

Spending an extra year trying to get into an MD school when the DO school is exactly the same would make one a fool. To me, this is far from being the case, but I am open to looking at evidence and being proven wrong.

Bingo!!

 

[Nasrudin]

Bingo!!

I am trying to be gentle with the reflection of my own mind shone through comedy of time. But your directness is, at last, appreciated.

 

[Excelsius]

Bingo!!

You obviously feel very strongly about DOs. You also have a lot of life experience starting medschool at 46 and pursuing surgery. So your opinions are appreciated. At the same time, I hope that your experience also makes you realize that someone with far less experience than you who places a lot of emphasis on quantified, secondary counter-evidence (because that is the only source available absent personal experience), is going to need tangible evidence negating all of his questions/doubts in order to change his opinion.

You did not specifically address any of my questions and I hope you can understand that I cannot change my opinion on this based on a short response stemming from just one person's experience. I might try to pursue this matter at a DO forum hoping that I can get a constructive response before the thread becomes useless.

Thanks anyway.

 

[Octagonecology]

I agree with what you say to a point. Once you are a practicing doctor, MD vs DO matters very little. The concern has to do with getting a residency in various competitive specialties. So if someone is shooting for primary care or something similar, there is no need to go to an MD. DO is just the same. I could even say the same thing about Caribbean schools. On the other hand, if you are shooting for competitive specialties, such as ROAD, then you will be at a disadvantage from a DO. Hell, even the name of your medschool (MD) comes into play for some of those residencies, much less a DO. I have also read several times how some program directors look down at DOs, in addition to lower ranked MD schools. So you are right to a point, but things are not really that clear cut.

OP, here are the main arguments I have encountered against DOs. As you read through this, don't forget what was already said above, including the points that njbmd brought up:

Why not DO?

1. They are focused on primary care and if someone wants to go to NS, for example, it will be very difficult since there might not be any neurosurgeons in the school who could write a good LOR, even if Step 1 scores are high. This will be fine if you are headed for PC, but otherwise, it is not the main function of DOs to focus on specialties. (some are more concentrated on FM than others).
2. The stigma/bias associated with the degree among some patients and medical communities, even if restricted to certain geographic regions
3. DO schools don't concentrate on USMLE as MD schools do. Therefore, it may be more difficult to get high test scores required for some specialties.
4. Due to the DO school focus, it might be hard to do research there in some specialties like NS.
5. Since most program directors are MDs themselves, they will be more inclined to choose an MD, rather than a DO. And there are already plenty of MDs competing for ROADS residencies.
6. The recommendation letters from DOs, even assuming you can find an neurosurgeon DO at your schools, will not have the same weight as a recommendation from a famous MD neurosurgeon.
7. The perception of how smart you are as evaluated by your LOR writer, such as a neurosurgeon, has an important role in ROADS residencies. Therefore, it is possible that attending a DO school might create a bias that "you were not smart enough for MD" and can be detrimental.
8. As more MD schools are being built while MD residency spots are not being increased as much, it means that there will be more MDs competing for MD spots in the future. Some estimates say that due to the increase, there may be as much as 40% cut in IMG residencies by 2015 to satisfy the demands of US graduates. Since most IMGs go into primary, it is likely that most of these reassigned spots will be allocated to DO students, making DOs even more heavily concentrated in PC.
9. DOs are not recognized internationally and you can't practice in another country if one day you find yourself forced to move somewhere else (or maybe collaborate on an international research). Still, not all countries recognize MDs either.

With all due respect about 90% of this information is completely false.

To the OP, please take any info you get on SDN with a grain of salt. Especially when it comes from someone who has never even applied to medical school.

 

[Excelsius]

With all due respect about 90% of this information is completely false.

To the OP, please take any info you get on SDN with a grain of salt. Especially when it comes from someone who has never even applied to medical school.

The list is a collection from allo and residency subforums gathered over a period of several months. If you are saying that "90% is false," it would help to know exactly what is false, why, and what's your source.

That's it. I am running this list in the DO forum. Sheesh...

 

[InHIShand]

You should spend some time on this website: http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search.cfm

Should clear up some of the misconceptions out there. Plenty of opportunities, just work hard! No Really hard!

 

[genia16]

I would like to comment on a few things.

as someone who was formerly skeptical about DO's, I have gained a great amount of respect for them. DO's chose their path fully knowing that there is a distinct difference between their future profession and allopathic medicine, that might hinder their ability to achieve the greatest heights of the medical profession. Many of them also chose their path because, unlike their MD counterparts, DOs are fully invested in the treatment of disease in their patients, and not because they prefer to spend their lives as physician scientists.

That being said, in an era when so-called "differences" between people are quickly being accepted the norm, DO's have also gained acceptance into the medical profession as being equal. Like any other right-or-wrong discussion, there are two sides to ever coin, and with osteopathic medicine, it is exactly that.

DO's can attain practically any residency, if they so choose. However, you must work for whatever it is that you achieve, like in any other profession. Yes, it may be a little bit harder to achieve a coveted MD residency in derm, for example, but if you want it bad enough, it will come. (example: 3 graduates from my school matched to neurosurg, one to an MD residency, and another graduate matched in MD urology, not to mention the student that matched to peds neuro fellowship at Mayo for his fellowship)


Regardless, all premeds should ask themselves the question, "why do really want to go to med school?" If your answer is money, fame, or research, please, apply to MD schools because they are better suited for your needs. If you answer, because I want to work with people, or because I want to help people with their medical needs, then DO schools are your answer.

DO schools, while leaning towards "osteopathic manipulation" or "primary care", do produce physicians that do everything but that. While I cannot speak for all DO schools, you can definitely achieve the goals you have set in mind for yourself at a DO school. It is up to you to decide whether you will be content in your chosen profession. Honestly, if you feel that a DO degree is "inferior" or not as good as an MD degree, you should not apply to DO schools because you will not be content there.

Finally, as a tip to all the premeds out there, please, please, please evaluate what you want to do and why you want to do it. Pursue the profession that will enable you to be happy, because, once you choose medicine(allo or osteo), it is difficult to ignore the debt you have accumulated and head in another direction.

ps. for all of you that are "on the border" between allo and osteo...apply to both. see what happens. when it comes time to decide on a school, decide based on the school itself and what it has to offer. i guarantee that your decision will become much easier.