Low Uworld % correct for shelf studying?

[Lannister]

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I've been slowly working through the IM UWorld questions. I'm one week into my rotation. I've only done 150 questions, and my % correct is 70%. Questions are my primary resource. I've also been watching OME but I haven't gotten very far since I'm on inpatient and the hours have been pretty rough.

My question is, is it normal for my UWorld % correct to be so much lower than my step 1 qbank % corrrct at this point? It's a little discouraging since my % correct for step 1 was much higher. My gut feeling is that it's probably normal since I haven't learned much of this stuff yet, but I just wanted to hear about others' experience in case I have some major deficits that I don't know about. Do people's scores typically improve towards the end of the rotation?

*edited for clarity, 70% is definitely not a bad score! Just wondering if it's bad that my percent correct has dropped in comparison to my step 1 percent correct.

 

[takeurmeds02]

I've been slowly working through the IM UWorld questions. I'm one week into my rotation. I've only done 150 questions, and my % correct is 70%. Questions are my primary resource. I've also been watching OME but I haven't gotten very far since I'm on inpatient and the hours have been pretty rough.

My question is, is it normal for my UWorld % correct to be so low at this point? It's a little discouraging since my % correct for step 1 was much higher. My gut feeling is that it's probably normal since I haven't learned much of this stuff yet, but I just wanted to hear about others' experience in case I have some major deficits that I don't know about. Do people's scores typically improve towards the end of the rotation?

The median score is 66%....

 

[Lannister]

The median score is 66%....

Right, but that's really similar to the median for the step 1 qbank. So I am just wondering if most people see a drop in % correct when they transition to the step 2 bank versus their % correct on the step 1 qbank. Or if your step 2 qbank score should be very similar to your step 1 qbank score, which mine is not. Not trying to say that 70% is bad at all, sorry if it came off that way.

Edit: think my OP was poorly worded, edited a bit for clarity.

 

[sovereign0]

Yes, it's normal to start off doing a bit more poorly for two reasons. First, UWorld Step 2 CK is used by some folks during dedicated, after they've already taken shelves and finished clerkships. Secondly, you have to transition your way of thinking as you shift from pre-clinical years to clinical years, which takes time. The more clerkships you have under your belt, the better you will perform. Having IM early, you'll probably do a little bit worse than if you had IM last.

I was in the same boat (IM as my first clerkship) and had <70% on UW IM and only finished maybe 500 questions. I got >90% on the shelf.

 

[Lannister]

Yes, it's normal to start off doing a bit more poorly for two reasons. First, UWorld Step 2 CK is used by some folks during dedicated, after they've already taken shelves and finished clerkships. Secondly, you have to transition your way of thinking as you shift from pre-clinical years to clinical years, which takes time. The more clerkships you have under your belt, the better you will perform. Having IM early, you'll probably do a little bit worse than if you had IM last.

I was in the same boat (IM as my first clerkship) and had <70% on UW IM and only finished maybe 500 questions. I got >90% on the shelf.

Haha I saw your original "<90%" and I was like OK I'm not sure what a good shelf score is but that sounds kind of discouraging?

But glad to know it's normal to start off like this. Thanks!

 

[mehc012]

I've been slowly working through the IM UWorld questions. I'm one week into my rotation. I've only done 150 questions, and my % correct is 70%. Questions are my primary resource. I've also been watching OME but I haven't gotten very far since I'm on inpatient and the hours have been pretty rough.

My question is, is it normal for my UWorld % correct to be so much lower than my step 1 qbank % corrrct at this point? It's a little discouraging since my % correct for step 1 was much higher. My gut feeling is that it's probably normal since I haven't learned much of this stuff yet, but I just wanted to hear about others' experience in case I have some major deficits that I don't know about. Do people's scores typically improve towards the end of the rotation?

*edited for clarity, 70% is definitely not a bad score! Just wondering if it's bad that my percent correct has dropped in comparison to my step 1 percent correct.

Congrats, Lannister...you held out for quite a while, but you've finally become That Guy™ on SDN.

And as an actual potentially-helpful comment, I took the two back to back in the other direction, with nearly identical preparation, and my % was always much lower on the Step 2 Qbank. Step 1 questions are fairly intuitive...you can figure half of them out just from the way the question is set up, or a half-remembered memory hook in the question stem. Step 1 questions would be very minute details, but they'd give you answers that were all correct for different diagnoses. Step 2 questions rely on empiric evidence half the time, so if you didn't specifically learn that algorithm, there's no way to figure it out. In the Step 2 bank, half of the answer choices (or more) are correct actions for the actual diagnosis, and in reality you'd do them simultaneously, but on the test there is technically an order of operations. Harder to reason through from base knowledge. Just my impressions as someone who recently did the IM shelf exam and is now knee-deep in Step study. The IM shelf preparation jumped my Step ONE qbank scores up by like 20%, though!

 

[sovereign0]

Haha I saw your original "<90%" and I was like OK I'm not sure what a good shelf score is but that sounds kind of discouraging?

But glad to know it's normal to start off like this. Thanks!

Ye I forgot that the gator tries to eat the bigger meal.

 

[Lannister]

And as an actual potentially-helpful comment, I took the two back to back in the other direction, with nearly identical preparation, and my % was always much lower on the Step 2 Qbank. Step 1 questions are fairly intuitive...you can figure half of them out just from the way the question is set up, or a half-remembered memory hook in the question stem. Step 1 questions would be very minute details, but they'd give you answers that were all correct for different diagnoses. Step 2 questions rely on empiric evidence half the time, so if you didn't specifically learn that algorithm, there's no way to figure it out. In the Step 2 bank, half of the answer choices (or more) are correct actions for the actual diagnosis, and in reality you'd do them simultaneously, but on the test there is technically an order of operations. Harder to reason through from base knowledge. Just my impressions as someone who recently did the IM shelf exam and is now knee-deep in Step study. The IM shelf preparation jumped my Step ONE qbank scores up by like 20%, though!

Thanks, that pretty much sums up exactly how I feel about the difference between step 1 and step 2 questions. Like there were always so many buzzwords in step 1 questions, and very little extraneous information. Step 2 questions seem to give so much information that ends up being completely irrelevant and, like you said, half the answer options seem reasonable. I'm sure I'll get used to it tho, just trying to remember that I struggled with step 1 questions at first too!

And I apologize for my neuroticism. Just trying to get a grasp on what TF is going on with this whole M3 thing.

 

[mehc012]

Thanks, that pretty much sums up exactly how I feel about the difference between step 1 and step 2 questions. Like there were always so many buzzwords in step 1 questions, and very little extraneous information. Step 2 questions seem to give so much information that ends up being completely irrelevant and, like you said, half the answer options seem reasonable. I'm sure I'll get used to it tho, just trying to remember that I struggled with step 1 questions at first too!

And I apologize for my neuroticism. Just trying to get a grasp on what TF is going on with this whole M3 thing.

Well, for the record, I was scoring around where you are on the Step 2 questions, came out at 69% for all of the Medicine ones, and I had the disadvantage of not having had taken Step 1 and being the only new person on my rotation (took an early rotation during M2 summer with the folks in the previous class year who were finishing up M3). Didn't balance my time super well, and then didn't even take my final days to study for the real shelf because I accidentally flipped the order (we do 2 subjects and 2 shelves for each Core rotation)...still hit the Honors threshold. You'll do fine.

 

[Lannister]

Well, for the record, I was scoring around where you are on the Step 2 questions, came out at 69% for all of the Medicine ones, and I had the disadvantage of not having had taken Step 1 and being the only new person on my rotation (took an early rotation during M2 summer with the folks in the previous class year who were finishing up M3). Didn't balance my time super well, and then didn't even take my final days to study for the real shelf because I accidentally flipped the order (we do 2 subjects and 2 shelves for each Core rotation)...still hit the Honors threshold. You'll do fine.

Thanks for the encouragement and congrats on the honors! 🙂

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

So, just to recap...
- This is your first rotation of third year, so you have zero background clinical knowledge from other rotations
- You're on your IM rotation, which along with FM is probably the shelf exam that covers the greatest breadth of knowledge
- You're one week into your rotation, so you haven't learned too much on the floors yet and probably haven't done much reading from uptodate, etc. for your patients
- You also haven't spent much time using OME or other learning resources
- You're doing really difficult, detailed questions designed to mimic the test you take at the end of the rotation
...all that adds up to that you shouldn't be getting a high percent correct. I'm not trying to be snarky lol, just pointing out that where you're at is super reasonable.

Your percent correct for step one was as a review and assessment tool after you had spent 2 years learning all that material. You are now using the step 2 qbank as a learning tool at the beginning of the year with a completely different type of knowledge and question. Also, I have yet to see any convincing data that uworld % correlates to shelf exam performance. You're fine. Just keep studying.

I don't think it does. All of the shelfs I honored I didn't really break much above 60th percentile on in uworld. Uworld for step 2 is pretty inflated so doing even below average is entirely fine. Idk how someone in their first week is hitting 70% though. That's either extremely good preclinical education or luck, but I can honestly say I was below 70% even after 3 rotations in IM.

 

[Lannister]

So, just to recap...
- This is your first rotation of third year, so you have zero background clinical knowledge from other rotations
- You're on your IM rotation, which along with FM is probably the shelf exam that covers the greatest breadth of knowledge
- You're one week into your rotation, so you haven't learned too much on the floors yet and probably haven't done much reading from uptodate, etc. for your patients
- You also haven't spent much time using OME or other learning resources
- You're doing really difficult, detailed questions designed to mimic the test you take at the end of the rotation
...all that adds up to that you shouldn't be getting a high percent correct. I'm not trying to be snarky lol, just pointing out that where you're at is super reasonable.

Your percent correct for step one was as a review and assessment tool after you had spent 2 years learning all that material. You are now using the step 2 qbank as a learning tool at the beginning of the year with a completely different type of knowledge and question. Also, I have yet to see any convincing data that uworld % correlates to shelf exam performance. You're fine. Just keep studying.

Yeah it makes a lot of sense when you type it out like that. Thanks!

 

[Lannister]

I don't think it does. All of the shelfs I honored I didn't really break much above 60th percentile on in uworld. Uworld for step 2 is pretty inflated so doing even below average is entirely fine. Idk how someone in their first week is hitting 70% though. That's either extremely good preclinical education or luck, but I can honestly say I was below 70% even after 3 rotations in IM.

You know, I actually do feel like my school prepared me really well for the clinical years. Not exactly sure how, but they're definitely doing something right.

 

[bananafish94]

My UWorld averages for IM were in the low 60s and I got an 87 on the IM shelf. If you can do all of the IM questions you will definitely learn from them, and a 70 average is very good!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You know, I actually do feel like my school prepared me really well for the clinical years. Not exactly sure how, but they're definitely doing something right.

Either way the IM shelf is pretty intense. I thought it and Peds required a lot of step 1 and basic science knowledge to do well on.

 

[Mad Jack]

You will have lower scores at the start of studying because you literally haven't learned the material yet. I mitigated this somewhat by reading Case Files at the start of the rotation them doing UW after, ended up doing very well on my shelves and knocked COMLEX II out of the park (didn't take Step 2 but got high scores on my practice tests).

 

[Lannister]

Either way the IM shelf is pretty intense. I thought it and Peds required a lot of step 1 and basic science knowledge to do well on.

That's why I'm a little glad I'm doing IM first, cuz the step 1 material is still pretty fresh in my mind.

 

[mehc012]

I don't think it does. All of the shelfs I honored I didn't really break much above 60th percentile
\ on in uworld. Uworld for step 2 is pretty inflated so doing even below average is entirely fine. Idk how someone in their first week is hitting 70% though. That's either extremely good preclinical education or luck, but I can honestly say I was below 70% even after 3 rotations in IM.

Meh, Step 1 knowledge + good test-taking skills will take you pretty far on IM qbank questions. For every standardized test I've ever prepared for, my averages on practice questions never changed...started high, ended high, just because I'm decent at gaming questions. But doing them still taught me a lot that I think helped me on the real deal at the end.

Thanks for the encouragement and congrats on the honors! 🙂

lol, still gotta wait for those evals to come through. I could end up HP everywhere depending on what people thought of me (or if they decided to blow off their evals and just mark straight 3s despite commenting "great job!", as one of my residents at the beginning of the rotation did).

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Meh, Step 1 knowledge + good test-taking skills will take you pretty far on IM qbank questions. For every standardized test I've ever prepared for, my averages on practice questions never changed...started high, ended high, just because I'm decent at gaming questions. But doing them still taught me a lot that I think helped me on the real deal at the end.


lol, still gotta wait for those evals to come through. I could end up HP everywhere depending on what people thought of me (or if they decided to blow off their evals and just mark straight 3s despite commenting "great job!", as one of my residents at the beginning of the rotation did).

Idk, I think there was a lot of mystery associated with IM. Stuff like knowing what the next best test for dysphagia or etc really tripped me up for months until I eventually sat down and figured it out. I think overall medicine is extremely broad and as a result it's really one of the more difficult shelves.

 

[Lannister]

Thanks for all the responses guys, it seems like I'm right on track so I feel much better about everything now!

 

[mehc012]

Idk, I think there was a lot of mystery associated with IM. Stuff like knowing what the next best test for dysphagia or etc really tripped me up for months until I eventually sat down and figured it out. I think overall medicine is extremely broad and as a result it's really one of the more difficult shelves.

Right, which is why that only gets you to like a 60-70%. On Step 1 qbanks, the equivalent "remember a fair bit of M1/2 stuff and are good at tests" can net you upwards of 80% without really being solid on many of the minutiae. The IM qbank was, imo, way more difficult than the Step 1 qbank for exactly the reason that you describe (which is what I said earlier).