Lvad

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BF2BC EMT

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Have you guys ran into any difficulties with the LVAD? before I started school we had an LVAD pt and everyone was thrown off by certain things that presented with this pt.(no b/p-pulse) Anyways I was wondering how they get worked up in the ED when stuff hits the fan.
The only reason I ask is because I did some looking around and even chest compressions are a no-no?

Thanks!
 
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I've been told auscultating heart tones, is pretty cool, you can hear the little pump.

Looking forward to reading up on this one.
 
I've been told auscultating heart tones, is pretty cool, you can hear the little pump.

Looking forward to reading up on this one.

"Little pump"? All you hear is a grinding like anything you might ever hear in a machine shop.

I had a patient when I was an intern that was the first person to have an LVAD that wasn't a bridge, but a permanent placement (I think the patient is dead now). I couldn't deduce anything by physical exam except no JVD and pt could speak full sentences.

Then again, maybe it IS now a "little pump", and maybe grinding ISN'T all one hears.
 
"Little pump"? All you hear is a grinding like anything you might ever hear in a machine shop.

I had a patient when I was an intern that was the first person to have an LVAD that wasn't a bridge, but a permanent placement (I think the patient is dead now). I couldn't deduce anything by physical exam except no JVD and pt could speak full sentences.

Then again, maybe it IS now a "little pump", and maybe grinding ISN'T all one hears.

Maybe I was being a little bit general, from the sound clips I've heard its more of a constant swoosh, but then again I could see how a grinding sound could be used to describe it.
 
We had one of these recently in Torsades on EKG.

Can you explain? What was treatment if indicated? Was their any perfusion issues? Since wouldn't the device function irregardless of cardiac movement? Would pre-load be an issue?

EDIT- Just looked that one up- Found a few pages out of a book- "cardiac assist devices" By Daniel J. Goldstein, Daniel J. Goldstein (MD.), Mehmet Oz

States even without perfusion issues treatment is indicated, but since they are awake it requires sedation prior to defibrillation, would you not just synchronized cardiovert?

 
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Have you guys ran into any difficulties with the LVAD? before I started school we had an LVAD pt and everyone was thrown off by certain things that presented with this pt.(no b/p-pulse) Anyways I was wondering how they get worked up in the ED when stuff hits the fan.
The only reason I ask is because I did some looking around and even chest compressions are a no-no?

Thanks!

Look at the power on the LVAD computer. If it changes, worry there is a clot in the inflow or outflow.
 
"Little pump"? All you hear is a grinding like anything you might ever hear in a machine shop.

I had a patient when I was an intern that was the first person to have an LVAD that wasn't a bridge, but a permanent placement (I think the patient is dead now). I couldn't deduce anything by physical exam except no JVD and pt could speak full sentences.

Then again, maybe it IS now a "little pump", and maybe grinding ISN'T all one hears.

According to one of the things I read the grinding/screeching noise of the LVAD accompanied with an increase or decrease in flow rate most likely means the LVAD is malfunctioning. I also believe this is with the newer devices.

If the patient presented to you unresponsive and you've ruled out problems with the LVAD, would you also be using doppler to help in your assessment? I ask because even with a responsive pt it's very difficult to do an assessment.

Thank you!
 
Can you explain? What was treatment if indicated? Was their any perfusion issues? Since wouldn't the device function irregardless of cardiac movement? Would pre-load be an issue?

EDIT- Just looked that one up- Found a few pages out of a book- "cardiac assist devices" By Daniel J. Goldstein, Daniel J. Goldstein (MD.), Mehmet Oz

States even without perfusion issues treatment is indicated, but since they are awake it requires sedation prior to defibrillation, would you not just synchronized cardiovert?


Thanks for the responses, Law. I don't think cardiovert is an option with torsades(but I'm prob wrong), and defib would be the way to go. If im
way off forgive me🙂. Maybe cardioversion if the LVAD flow decreases to a critical level and throw in some amiodarone?

edit- Ignore anything from me that sounds dumb or wrong just trying to learn 🙂
 
Thanks for the responses, Law. I don't think cardiovert is an option with torsades(but I'm prob wrong), and defib would be the way to go. If im
way off forgive me🙂. Maybe cardioversion if the LVAD flow decreases to a critical level and throw in some amiodarone?

edit- Ignore anything from me that sounds dumb or wrong just trying to learn 🙂

No you are right, you can't sync cardiovert torsades, I was just thinking in the case of a patient that is conscious, alert and perfusing (as I have heard you can be with the LVAD and an arrhythmia) if timing was not an issue, you could try I guess? see if it captures. I have run into a few V-tachs that make you look at it for a second, with a puzzled face. Then I'm also wondering if the LVAD has any effect on the EKG. I am wondering if anyone has more experience with this.

EDIT- I will be the first to say I don't know nearly enough about the LVADS, and would like to know more, if anyone has any info. I guess thats my activity for the weekend, look up LVAD.
 
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I work for an ambulance service that contracts with a large, university based tertiary care center that does heart transplants and discharges a lot of VADs to the community. When these patients present to the local hospitals with any complaint at all, they are transferred back to our cardiac unit. Depending on the acuity of the patient, it may be just me (a paramedic) and my partner, or any combination of RN, RT, perfusionist and physician with us. (We also go pick up the patients that decompensate acutely and need a VAD/transplant eval. Those are usually the ones that are ridiculously sick.)

So, I frequently transport fairly stable VAD patients back by myself. (We have 2 cities that are 70 miles away that have a lot of our patients; but the trip can be as much as 300 miles one way.) Some patients have pulses and measurable BPs, some don't. The big thing they hammer into us when training and educating is to go by perfusion, including mental status, skin color and urine output. I always check the battery power and the flow rate. We also need to make sure they are adequately anti-coagulated.

On a recent patient, I walked in to his ED room (at a hospital 70 miles away) and looked at the monitor, seeing that he was in V fib. He was awake, sitting up, and talking. I asked if they normally do anything about that, and he said no, it'll stop on it's own. At our own ED, cardiology is normally very good about getting them out of the ED quickly.

The big thing is that you can't rely on vital sign numbers. They require hands on assessment.
 
Major issues with an LVAD- most new LVADs are heartmate II which don't have a pulse. The older models had a pulse because the rotor was different than the heartmate. There are usually 4 parameters you can look at: speed, power, flow and PI. Speed is usually set and is constant. It really only changes in suction events (speed will go down). Power is really the most important parameter.

Power changes often mean you have a clot in the inflow or outflow. Clots before or after the rotor you see power decrease. Clots that are on the rotor cause an increase in power.

Speed is usually fixed. Decreases usually mean a suction event (hypovolemia etc)

A few issues with LVADs
1) Hemolysis- check normal hemolysis labs- if LDH > 1500 you have a diagnosis; worry about thrombosis in this setting; they often go together.
2) acquired von-willebrand deficiency is a big problem. Add to this the fact they are usually on warfarin and you get bleeding.
3) Infections- esp drive line infections and pocket infections
4) Pump stops- check the batteries (one at a time, don't remove both batteries at once)
5) Kinks- Flow should decrease. May need CT or echo to find out where it is.
6) Arrythmia- Most endstage cardiomyopathy patients who would be LVAD candidates also have ICDs prior to LVAD placement so many (?most) patients with an LVAD will also have an ICD.
 
I work for an ambulance service that contracts with a large, university based tertiary care center that does heart transplants and discharges a lot of VADs to the community. When these patients present to the local hospitals with any complaint at all, they are transferred back to our cardiac unit. Depending on the acuity of the patient, it may be just me (a paramedic) and my partner, or any combination of RN, RT, perfusionist and physician with us. (We also go pick up the patients that decompensate acutely and need a VAD/transplant eval. Those are usually the ones that are ridiculously sick.)

So, I frequently transport fairly stable VAD patients back by myself. (We have 2 cities that are 70 miles away that have a lot of our patients; but the trip can be as much as 300 miles one way.) Some patients have pulses and measurable BPs, some don't. The big thing they hammer into us when training and educating is to go by perfusion, including mental status, skin color and urine output. I always check the battery power and the flow rate. We also need to make sure they are adequately anti-coagulated.

On a recent patient, I walked in to his ED room (at a hospital 70 miles away) and looked at the monitor, seeing that he was in V fib. He was awake, sitting up, and talking. I asked if they normally do anything about that, and he said no, it'll stop on it's own. At our own ED, cardiology is normally very good about getting them out of the ED quickly.

The big thing is that you can't rely on vital sign numbers. They require hands on assessment.

Interesting, and if a patient did decompensate (measurable by their perfusion) would treatment be standard AHA? with CPR/Defib/Cardiovert/Medication?

Also with LVAD failure, would you expect to run into acute cardiopulmonary arrest, or would you find signs and symptoms of CHF and pulmonary hypertension?
 
I work for an ambulance service that contracts with a large, university based tertiary care center that does heart transplants and discharges a lot of VADs to the community.

srsly ? LVADs discharged? They don't even make it to step down units where I am. Wow. Did you mean they live to be discharged after having had a VAD?
 
srsly ? LVADs discharged? They don't even make it to step down units where I am. Wow. Did you mean they live to be discharged after having had a VAD?

As I said above, I saw a patient in 2003 that was living in the community, with a permanent LVAD that was not a bridge to transplant.
 
srsly ? LVADs discharged? They don't even make it to step down units where I am. Wow. Did you mean they live to be discharged after having had a VAD?

Thoratec's HeartMate II is designed for patients to be discharged home with the device. Atlanta has been slow on the uptake of using it, but UAB has put a few in patients in our community. Anytime they show up with a complaint related to their LVAD, UAB sends a helicopter for them.

I believe Dick Cheney is wearing a HeartMate II now.
 
Interesting, and if a patient did decompensate (measurable by their perfusion) would treatment be standard AHA? with CPR/Defib/Cardiovert/Medication?

No CPR with VADs. Medication and defib/cardioversion are done in consultation with the accepting cardiologist. Remeber that these patients can walk around in v. fib if the VAD is functioning correctly. If they decompensate, there is another issue. (Sepsis is a common one that we encounter.)

Also with LVAD failure, would you expect to run into acute cardiopulmonary arrest, or would you find signs and symptoms of CHF and pulmonary hypertension?

This depends on the patient, how acute they were when the VAD was placed, and if they've regained any of their EF. Many patients, when the VAD fails will quickly die. We did have one in our area that became suicidal, though, and unplugged his VAD and let it run down, and when it stopped, he didn't decompensate. His heart had healed enough, and he had regained some EF. He then drove himself to the hospital to find his VAD full of clots.


srsly ? LVADs discharged? They don't even make it to step down units where I am. Wow. Did you mean they live to be discharged after having had a VAD?

No, I mean they are discharged to the community, carrying their VAD in a bag over their shoulder. (We have RVADs out there too.) VADs initially were only approved by the FDA as a bridge to a heart transplant. They have now been approved as destination therapy, and many patients, after a couple of months, are able to go home and lead semi-normal lives. Some even go back to work with their VAD.
 
Remeber that these patients can walk around in v. fib if the VAD is functioning correctly. If they decompensate, there is another issue.

LVADs only support the left ventricle. The right heart needs to adequately pump to the lungs to oxygenate and to fill the left atrium. In all likelihood the patients who appeared to be in VF were in some other rhythm. Right heart failure is a major issue with LVADs.
 
Major issues with an LVAD- most new LVADs are heartmate II which don't have a pulse. The older models had a pulse because the rotor was different than the heartmate. There are usually 4 parameters you can look at: speed, power, flow and PI. Speed is usually set and is constant. It really only changes in suction events (speed will go down). Power is really the most important parameter.

Power changes often mean you have a clot in the inflow or outflow. Clots before or after the rotor you see power decrease. Clots that are on the rotor cause an increase in power.

Speed is usually fixed. Decreases usually mean a suction event (hypovolemia etc)

A few issues with LVADs
1) Hemolysis- check normal hemolysis labs- if LDH > 1500 you have a diagnosis; worry about thrombosis in this setting; they often go together.
2) acquired von-willebrand deficiency is a big problem. Add to this the fact they are usually on warfarin and you get bleeding.
3) Infections- esp drive line infections and pocket infections
4) Pump stops- check the batteries (one at a time, don't remove both batteries at once)
5) Kinks- Flow should decrease. May need CT or echo to find out where it is.
6) Arrythmia- Most endstage cardiomyopathy patients who would be LVAD candidates also have ICDs prior to LVAD placement so many (?most) patients with an LVAD will also have an ICD.
Right on. Only limitation is, unless you have the monitors on hand to hook up and get the numbers, not all your patients will come in with the monitors, so you have a patient without being able to view the parameters (unless your hospital has that same model in-house).

As mentioned prior, some LVADs provide continuous flow (vs. pulsatile, that yields a BP). MAPs become the name of the game in continuous flow LVADs. Also, it's key to get on the phone with the on-call nurse for that specific LVAD and run through some basics, cuz there are a ton of different types of LVADs running around. Granted, some will be more common in your area than others. Having said that, there's only so much they can help you with over the phone if you don't have a monitor to look at the set parameters vs. actual parameters of the LVAD.

Lastly, MOST patients who present to the ED with LVADs have LVAD-unrelated issues at hand, OR have more common/obvious LVAD-related issues, such as sepsis (although clots from the LVAD are definitely possible, as previously stated).

Out of curiosity, I asked this to our LVAD coordinator the other day, and they didn't know. For the acquired von-willebrand deficiency secondary to LVAD use, does DDAVP work?

LVADs only support the left ventricle. The right heart needs to adequately pump to the lungs to oxygenate and to fill the left atrium. In all likelihood the patients who appeared to be in VF were in some other rhythm. Right heart failure is a major issue with LVADs.
Although there are a handful of biVADs walking around
wink.gif
 
LVADs only support the left ventricle. The right heart needs to adequately pump to the lungs to oxygenate and to fill the left atrium. In all likelihood the patients who appeared to be in VF were in some other rhythm. Right heart failure is a major issue with LVADs.
I was wondering when someone would finally correct this major oversight in all the other posts.
 
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